N.E.S.E. the no solder module
- Thread starter agniusm
- Start date
The Toecutter
100 kW
- Joined
- Feb 8, 2015
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- 1,312
It sucks that if I order these I will have to wait 10 weeks... They would definitely work for my application.
I'm currently waiting on a spot welder to arrive, but that will take a similar amount of time. I'm tempted to order a Vruzend kit that I know is likely to cause many problems that these NESE modules won't entail just to get my trike running as an EV. The battery is the only thing I need, and I have already paid for both cells and a BMS that are on the way...
But these modules are a nice solution!
I'm currently waiting on a spot welder to arrive, but that will take a similar amount of time. I'm tempted to order a Vruzend kit that I know is likely to cause many problems that these NESE modules won't entail just to get my trike running as an EV. The battery is the only thing I need, and I have already paid for both cells and a BMS that are on the way...
But these modules are a nice solution!
agniusm
1 MW
The Toecutter said:
It will provide 6.5kW of continues current and 15kW for couple minutes.
Welding is not a proper way anyway. When welding, some heat gets through to cell electrolite which deteriorates cell more or less. Then you have nickel which is less conductive than copper. You cant weld 1.8mm nickel to the cell which would have equal throughoutput of my tabs not to mention contact area of 4 spotwelds vs nipple that covers allmos all cell terminal area.
Addy
100 W
agniusm said:
You might think welding is not proper, but it's the method used to build the vast majority of commercial cylindrical cell battery packs.
Copper can be spot welded, I would recommend the nickel/copper sandwich technique as seen here:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1579841
As for the contact area:
![True-points-of-contact-occur-only-at-the-asperities-of-the-contacting-surface-leading-to[1].png](https://endless-sphere.com/sphere/data/attachments/153/153206-ae6a57272a7ec0d68ef4240882cdc5c3.jpg "True-points-of-contact-occur-only-at-the-asperities-of-the-contacting-surface-leading-to[1].png")
I find it hard to believe that two unwelded, uncrimped metal surfaces could be superior to a welded joint where the two metals are fused together.
Spot welding is superior **only** in that one factor, contact resistance,
actually well past the point of what is needed.
Possibly inferior in allowing for damage that reduces cell lifespan.
Definitely **inferior** in not allowing easy atomization for monitoring / testing / replacement at the individual cell level.
Once the no-weld solution allows for both a low enough resistance connection, along with
secure and reliable enough in the face of high shock / vibration use case,
at not too high an increase in pack cost,
then **that** becomes the superior technology.
actually well past the point of what is needed.
Possibly inferior in allowing for damage that reduces cell lifespan.
Definitely **inferior** in not allowing easy atomization for monitoring / testing / replacement at the individual cell level.
Once the no-weld solution allows for both a low enough resistance connection, along with
secure and reliable enough in the face of high shock / vibration use case,
at not too high an increase in pack cost,
then **that** becomes the superior technology.
akbarramzan
10 µW
- Joined
- Jun 2, 2020
- Messages
- 5
Contact resistance is not an issue with welding. The weld spots actually alloy together for an extremely reliable and good connection. If for some reason you are pulling unreasonably large currents from each cell, you can simply just add more weld spots.
Welding with a 20ms pulse time will not damage cells.
Welding with a 20ms pulse time will not damage cells.
agniusm
1 MW
Addy said:
The clip-art would be terifying for someone who is new and i would cringe myself. What matters is real life data. And i have that. The resistance of my system at extreme discharge rate is almost nothing and that is while vibrating the module. And i almost can bet that spotwelded sane amount of nickel strip layers woud result in higher resistance.
The reason of spotwelding being used everywhere is simple. Its far cheaper and could be automated with least materials needed. Also space savings. It does not mean its better, it means producer can make more money of you.
There are many more unwelded or friction high power connections in the world, more than there are batteries. Think of switches, contactors
each and every electric car has them pushing hundreds of amps
agniusm
1 MW
akbarramzan said:
There are inheretant issue with welding. Battery packs move ever so slightly even in most rigid packs which introduces high stress point on the welded strip. Also heat damages cell protective surface and it is more susceptible to corrosion. I seen packs damaged this way, segway, makita etc.
The Toecutter
100 kW
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agniusm said:
A friend of mine discovered a burned cell in a 13S4P Li Ion pack that he built. It was the result of corrosion at a spot weld between a cell terminal and the nickel strip. His pack was limited to 750W. Unfortunately, the maker space that availed him their spot welder is no longer open, otherwise I wouldn't be waiting on my kweld to arrive in order to fix it as well as assemble my own pack.
Were it not for the 10 week shipment to the U.S., I'd have ordered these NESE to try out. They look like a nice, easy, reliable solution that avoids permanent cell damage.
Addy
100 W
agniusm said:
Have you posted this data before? It would be great if you could share this so that others can make the conclusion on their own. I could do some resistance measurements of some spot welds.
agniusm
1 MW
You can read page 3. Did some tests and Matador helped calculating the values. Videos of the tests is also there.Addy said:
agniusm
1 MW
Its not a set constant of 10 weeks. Post office advertises that shippments MIGHT incure longer delivery times of up to 10 weeks. I had recent shipments delivered to US in acceptable time frame.The Toecutter said:
I had to put that note there for my protection as i cannot keep refunding people when the cause is COVID and all the nonsense associated with it. I have to wait for stuff longer too and i have to weare mask like everyone else. Its just the times we are in and we need to adjust.
agniusm
1 MW
I bet you would cut your tongue licking it off but damn, for the sake of a selfie i could of sprinkled all over them with extra can included :lol:will_newton said:Wow, someone did a bad job planning for cost and battery size, but it is the vendors fault. Even though all of this info is provided before hand.
The foam issue was discussed and explained in this thread. Seems fine to me, so far folks seem to view easy cell replacement as a feature, not a problem. Again, information available, but buyer complained anyway.
Sounds like someone is mad because this “no welding” kit did not make a welded up battery! Uhhhhh...
Agnius, I am VERY UPSET that my parts did not come with chocolate sprinkles on them! Chocolate sprinkles are the most important detail for my build and your parts don’t have them! I can’t believe I spent more than a HK lipo for this and there are no chocolate sprinkles! :lol:
The Toecutter
100 kW
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agniusm said:
I get that. It's just that my experience thus far is that everything I ordered from a foreign location(I'm in the U.S.) has taken AT LEAST 10 weeks. I'm still waiting on a LiFePO4 24S BMS I ordered in early July, for example.
Frank
100 W
Any thoughts on making the 21700 holders Vented? I would think that would help with heat shedding under high loads. Or, is this design available and I've just missed it?
Thanks!
Thanks!
agniusm
1 MW
Frank said:
You just missed it
: https://cults3d.com/en/3d-model/gadget/nese-the-no-solder-21700-module-v2-vented
agniusm
1 MW
The Toecutter said:
It is how it is. I can offer Fedex 4 day service as well but it costs 25-35eur.
Frank
100 W
agniusm said:You just missed it
Thank you - I was looking on the main site but didn't see it there. Good stuff.
Have you ever repeated the experiment to measure high load currents and busbar resistance?
Hello, Agniusm, can you provide a link to any of your shop websites? Old ones don't work (18650.lt). Or do you even still sell products at all? I'd like to buy nikel and foam strips for your Nese models (7P).
P.s. why PLA is not good for your enclosures? (or was it answered already in this thread?) Thanks.
P.s. why PLA is not good for your enclosures? (or was it answered already in this thread?) Thanks.
thepronghorn
1 kW
The link in his signature works for me (albeit slowly). I think PLA can work, but PETG/ABS/PC are much preferred due to their higher temperature handling capabilities.
![ATTACH]](/sphere/proxy.php?image=http%3A%2F%2F%5BATTACH+type%3D%22full%22+alt%3D%22nese.jpg%22%5D281905._xfImport%5B%2FATTACH%5D&hash=d826f010488e5c6dbbc369815e3643d6)
agniusm
1 MW
thepronghorn said:
Thats weird. I moved my site to bluehost which is in US so americans would have faster service, gues its not that great
agniusm
1 MW
I would not suggest printing them in pla unless its a special blend.
thepronghorn
1 kW
agniusm said:
I think it's faster than when I was checking a couple months ago, so if you moved in that timeframe, it is making a difference. It's about 3s for me, so not too bad, but it's still noticeable compared to most sites.
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