New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Jaybee258 said:

...... I like the heat sinks that you made. That's the first time I've seen that done. ....

Click to expand...

Not exactly the first time.
I think andrea_104kg was the first experimenting with a sort of heatsinks.
QuirkyOrk and Owskov also placed heatsinks on the housing.

Swannking said:

.... I would like to add the heat sink also. Looks like u screwed then onto the housing. I think using JB weld should work also and more simple.

Click to expand...

That should be working too. Heat resistant glue could also be an option

Besides heatsinks there are more options to control the temperature of the Tsdz2.
Most of them are mentioned in this topic.

Hi, everyone!!!
I am running Panasonic 2-Speed Motor with TSDZ2 controller. Now It works only with throttle.
Can anyone point me how does TSDZ2 torque sensor work, how is it wired?
As I'm going to use Panasonic internal torque sensor which has 3 wires and works this way:
"Blue to GND from the Arduino Nano
White with 20 kHz rectangle **** (pin_Pwm, 20000);
Yellow via diode on eg 1 uF capacitor and analogRead (A0);
To read the torque sensor I used a diode, a 0.1 uF ceramic capacitor and a 220k Ohm resistor."

the TSDZ2's torque sensor is on the crank axle, it is a piezo sensor that measures the torque of you pushing down on the pedals. this is wired to the controller board, which calculates how much motor power is appropriate for the current road speed, cadence, and torque.

can I run dual magnets on the speed sensor to cut its response time in half? this is on a 700c bike (wheel circumference is 2160 but I'll be bumping to a larger tire at 2180 shortly). Would I simply cut my tire circumference in half for this? or is there a setting somewhere for that? or is this really not a very good idea?

also, on my 860C, the 'temp graph' is showing things like 180 even though the motor temp is like 75F ? its 860C firmware 1.0.0, and I'm not totally sure what the TSDZ2 firmware is, iI can't seem to find anyplace where the TSDZ2 firmware version is displayed.

livello said:

....
Can anyone point me how does TSDZ2 torque sensor work, how is it wired?...

Click to expand...

More info about the Tsdz2 torquesensor you can see here what Stancecoke (Hochsitzcola) has done to find out.

LeftCoastNurd said:

can I run dual magnets on the speed sensor to cut its response time in half? this is on a 700c bike (wheel circumference is 2160 but I'll be bumping to a larger tire at 2180 shortly). Would I simply cut my tire circumference in half for this? or is there a setting somewhere for that? or is this really not a very good idea?

also, on my 860C, the 'temp graph' is showing things like 180 even though the motor temp is like 75F ? its 860C firmware 1.0.0, and I'm not totally sure what the TSDZ2 firmware is, iI can't seem to find anyplace where the TSDZ2 firmware version is displayed.

Click to expand...

You have same firmware version in TSDZ2 as 850C. System is not working if you have different versions on display and motor.
When you put power on display says what version you use.

dameri said:

You have same firmware version in TSDZ2 as 850C. System is not working if you have different versions on display and motor.
When you put power on display says what version you use.

Click to expand...

ahhh, ok. cool.

The TSDZ2 was working great on my test rides today today, 2 miles with the 52T, then 10 with the original 42T, where I swapped the rear cluster at hte local bike shop halfaway through, 13-26 to a 11-28.... for testing, I just temporarily folded and tiewrapped off the excess wiring... I still need to install and wire the lights, then decide if I want to cut up the harnesses and solder/shrinkwrap everything to exact fit, or just fold up the excess cables and put it all in a cable wrap, secured to the frame. I will almost certainly redo the main power wires from the 52V battery to the motor, as its ugly too long now.

LeftCoastNurd said:

also, on my 860C, the 'temp graph' is showing things like 180 even though the motor temp is like 75F ? its 860C firmware 1.0.0, and I'm not totally sure what the TSDZ2 firmware is, iI can't seem to find anyplace where the TSDZ2 firmware version is displayed.

Click to expand...

I have the same temp graphic problem with the 860c display. I think the graph treated the F read out as C and do the multiplication ending up with a high value in F. If I changed all the variables to metric, then I worked appropriately but I am used to miles than kilometers. The other issues I have is the input value with the torque sensor and odometer. It took the input value and changed itself. e.g. I put in 30 and ended up 25 when I hit enter. If I use metric, it doesn’t happen.

Elinx said:

Jaybee258 said:

...... I like the heat sinks that you made. That's the first time I've seen that done. ....

Click to expand...

Not exactly the first time.
I think andrea_104kg was the first experimenting with a sort of heatsinks.
QuirkyOrk and Owskov also placed heatsinks on the housing.

Swannking said:

.... I would like to add the heat sink also. Looks like u screwed then onto the housing. I think using JB weld should work also and more simple.

Click to expand...

That should be working too. Heat resistant glue could also be an option

Besides heatsinks there are more options to control the temperature of the Tsdz2.
Most of them are mentioned in this topic.

Click to expand...

I did read those suggestions and did the modification. I like the heat sink idea to help dissipate the heat but don’t have the source for heat sink which is low profile and not looking like a mad science project when it’s put on the motor.

Swannking said:

Jaybee258 said:

AZUR said:

Hi all,

I would like to share with the Forum what I did on the TSDZ2 engine to improve heat dissipation.

Part 1

I acted in 3 areas:

1 - Installation of Thermal Pad according to what is described in this forum.
2 - Installation of heatsinks in the motor housing
3 - Lubricate the engine with a grease suitable for nylon Blue Gear.
I lubricated with a grease that is used to lubricate the nylon gears in the wind turbines. I used the Molykote PG-65 grease.

Below are some pictures.

Click to expand...

Hi Azur. Thanks for sharing, and great work. I like the heat sinks that you made. That's the first time I've seen that done. Where did you get those from and how did you fix them? Many thanks

Click to expand...

I would like to add the heat sink also. Looks like u screwed then onto the housing. I think using JB weld should work also and more simple.

Click to expand...

Hi Swannking,



https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32921944839.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.6d6a4c4dv7Mv3x


I painted the sinks and the engine cover after they were installed.



I used , MG Chemicals, Slow Cure, Epoxy Thermal Conductive Adhesive, to eliminate the air, which is between the heatsink and the engine cover.

The heat conductive epoxy glue was used by QuirkyOrk, also a user of this Forum

After applying the glue, I also used rivets and screws to more easily attach the radiator to the engine cover.

It is also very important to use a slow drying glue in order to have enough time to apply to the various sinks.

I bought it here:
https://www.digikey.pt/products/en/...f=0&quantity=&ColumnSort=0&page=1&pageSize=25

Hi,

What improves heat dissipation a lot is using a good Thermal Pad - TP - with high heat conductivity.

The heat sinks help a lot to lower the temperature. But the best thing to prevent the temperature from rising is to install a good thermal pad.

I made several measurements with various temperature sensors, glued to the motor, and with fans to cool the engine.

I measured the time it takes the motor to reach a certain temperature without TP, and with TP.

I also measured without Heatsink and with Heatsink.

I also measured the time it takes the motor to lower the temperature in the various situations described.

Without thermal PAD the heat does not pass, quickly, to the motor cover (in the image below) and therefore the cover does not help the motor to cool.

This is my experience.

AZUR said:

I would like to share with the Forum what I did on the TSDZ2 engine to improve heat dissipation.

Click to expand...

Would be important if you could share also on the wiki, on the specific page for this topic. Maybe you could even create a new page with all this information, adding your name on the page and then link on the main page of this topic.

Hi before I ‘just go at it’. Anyone posted before about removing and changing this bearing? Seems to have gone rusty.. rust was coming from one of the screws on the other side of the sensor and I thought it was the screw but it’s come from this bearing which also seems wobbly.

I am struggling with the snap ring though, managed to get it up out the groove just about! But it doesn’t clear the wires and silicones part (guess that it’s half of the torque sensor ‘gubbins’ lol).
Can I just unscrew that and lower it inside the axle cover/torque sensor assembly, that the axle goes through? Or do I need to despiser it to get it out the way? The snap ring and bearing don’t clear it.

Cheers for any help,I did try searching but couldn’t find anything on this specific bearing.
like what bearing is that so I can get it ordered before I take it off?
Thanks

charakaSamawry said:

Hi before I ‘just go at it’. Anyone posted before about removing and changing this bearing? Seems to have gone rusty.. rust was coming from one of the screws on the other side of the sensor and I thought it was the screw but it’s come from this bearing which also seems wobbly.

I am struggling with the snap ring though, managed to get it up out the groove just about! But it doesn’t clear the wires and silicones part (guess that it’s half of the torque sensor ‘gubbins’ lol).
Can I just unscrew that and lower it inside the axle cover/torque sensor assembly, that the axle goes through? Or do I need to despiser it to get it out the way? The snap ring and bearing don’t clear it.

Cheers for any help,I did try searching but couldn’t find anything on this specific bearing.
like what bearing is that so I can get it ordered before I take it off?
Thanks

Click to expand...

I think all bearings are listed on the wiki TSDZ2 FAQ.

casainho said:

charakaSamawry said:

Hi before I ‘just go at it’

Click to expand...

I think all bearings are listed on the wiki TSDZ2 FAQ.

Click to expand...

Thanks I missed that.. how do I get it past the err lil torque sensor wires and lil mount thing with 2 screws?

Desoldering the only way? Worried about overheating, desolder the other end? Could snipe wires n solder them after so heat is away from the sensor.. but I don’t know how sensitive they are, I mean, they have solder on them so probably ok until I take ages to melt the solder.. would prefer to not have to solder lol

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=108017#p1580080
Reading now that it is quite a loose fit anyway.... does feel a bit gritty or rough though as well as some play.. just can’t get it off

famichiki said:

famichiki said:

Are there solder pads under the rubber here? How are the red and black wires connected to the coil?
I want to disconnect them without cutting the wires if possible.

Click to expand...

So I took a chance and removed the silicone rubber. Yes there are solder pads for the torque sensor coil under there and it looks like the best place for disconnecting the wires if you want to replace the roller bearing.

Click to expand...

How’d changing the 2214 roller bearing go? Was it easy enough to desolder? And afterward you just had a to recalibrate the torque sensor?

charakaSamawry said:

How’d changing the 2214 roller bearing go? Was it easy enough to desolder? And afterward you just had a to recalibrate the torque sensor?

Click to expand...

It was pretty easy to pick off the potting and desolder. I then cleaned up the pads with some braid and isopropyl alcohol.

Then unscrew the sensor plate and pull the whole plate out with the wires. The hardest part is getting that retaining clip off and back on again.

Some flux when reattaching the wires is helpful and I re-potted with liquid electrical tape so I can easily remove again in the future if need be. Otherwise epoxy is probably best as some silicones will cause corrosion. Make sure to keep the wires, solder and any potting compound level to or lower than the surface of the disc otherwise it may rub on the big gear.

I put threadlock on the sensor plate screws. Also a drop of bearing retainer behind that plate but you could use epoxy, use the 24 hour stuff rather than quick cure to give you time to calibrate the sensor. There was some kind of glue on mine from the factory.

I set the torque sensor reading in the VLCD5 hidden service menu to around 75 - 80 by moving the plate with a small screwdriver. Recommended is between 50 and 105.

After that's set then tighten up the screws and you should be all good.

Note that due to poor tolerances any new bearing will still be a bit loose on the torque sensor shaft.

Also, the new INA HK2214-RS-L271 bearings I used have an oil seal on one side. The lip would catch on the retaining ring groove and wouldn't slide over. I wrapped the groove in dental floss to build it up and then it slid over easily. I fitted both bearings with the seals facing towards the drive side - the outer bearing so it wouldn't throw grease onto the discs, the inner bearing because the torque sensor shaft doesn't extend enough to sit in the seal otherwise.

huh, reading the procedure on calibrating the torque sensors... ok, I'm 220 lbs, I can stand on the pedal. I have no idea how to put, say, 100 lbs on the pedal... a 5 gallon bucket of water is only 40 lbs. plus I'm pretty sure my work stand will get very cranky (pun intended) if I add 100 lbs to the 45 lb bike. the only other person here is heavier than I and has bad knees and is rather short, so she won't be able to balance on one foot with her weight on the pedal, and she's too heavy anyways.

famichiki said:

charakaSamawry said:

How’d changing the 2214 roller bearing go?

Click to expand...

It was pretty easy-
<photos + instructions>

Click to expand...

Stellar! Another page for the wiki methinks.


Cheers

bergerandfries said:

I have this problem too, which is posted unanswered in the "E-Bike Technical" section. Anyone have any ideas?

by cellmate » Jul 13 2020 3:16pm

Hi there,

I just got a brand new TSDZ2 from eco-cycles. It is working, but have noticed that the resistance when turning the cranks is not continuous all the way around. It is smooth all the way except one spot, where it has a bit more friction. It's not a huge amount, but you can feel it when pedaling. There is also a subtle/quiet grinding sound at that point. It's very quiet (nothing like some of the things I've found when googling this), but it is definitely there once you notice it.

I noticed that if I put the bike on the repair stand and use the throttle to turn the chainring, there is a tiny wobble to it, right at the point where it makes the sound.

I removed the drive-side crank, chainring, and spider, and ran it again. Now the motor is smooth and silent. If I put the spider back on again but don't tighten the 5 retaining bolts fully, it is also smooth. As soon as I tighten them even the tiniest bit (< 1nm) the wobble and grind comes back.

The motor works, but I feel like something isn't right, and I suspect it will get worse if I don't deal with it sooner rather than later.

Has anyone had this before?

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Yes I have the exact same thing... Didn't find what it is though....did you get any wiser?

Hi.
This has probably been discussed before, but as I haven't found it.
If I connect a 48v motor with a 36v battery (I think only with open source software), the cadence will be lower, right? Or are the 36v and 48v motors exactly the same with only one controller programmed differently?
The only way to increase the cadence of a 48v motor is through the opensource firmware?
Thanks in advance for the attention you can give

i've installed one 48V TSDZ2 with stock firmware, and indeed, it peters out above about 70 cadence, and completely drops all boost at 90.

I've installed a second 48V (running with a 52V battery) with the open source firmware, and I can pedal 100-120 cadence and still have boost. thats about as fast as this fat old guy can pedal, so I dunno how much faster it will go. 90 is kind of my happy place, or 75 if I'm kicking back and cruising, so I'm way happier with the FOSS than with the stock stuff.

also the acceleration is smoother, and the 860C display rocks, being able to see human vs motor power in real time, watching the motor temperature, having the temp sensor tied into a power safety to prevent overheating (about 170F it starts to cut back on power, and at 185F it cuts out completely... those are all tunable, I left at defaults... by seeing the temperature I can be sure I give the motor a chance to cool before a long steep grade, and I can regulate the power assist level and gearing to ensure the heat stays managable, without it, its way too easy to crank away at 700 watts output in a talllll gear and go zoom zoom followed by demagnetizing the motor when it overheats.

LeftCoastNurd said:

i've installed one 48V TSDZ2 with stock firmware, and indeed, it peters out above about 70 cadence, and completely drops all boost at 90.

Click to expand...

So... not for cyclists, I guess. That's not surprising for an outfit that would go into production with a fatally flawed mechanical design that looks like a quiz question from first semester mechanical engineering.

Adarsh881 said:

bergerandfries said:

I have this problem too, which is posted unanswered in the "E-Bike Technical" section. Anyone have any ideas?

by cellmate » Jul 13 2020 3:16pm

Hi there,

I just got a brand new TSDZ2 from eco-cycles. It is working, but have noticed that the resistance when turning the cranks is not continuous all the way around. It is smooth all the way except one spot, where it has a bit more friction. It's not a huge amount, but you can feel it when pedaling. There is also a subtle/quiet grinding sound at that point. It's very quiet (nothing like some of the things I've found when googling this), but it is definitely there once you notice it.

I noticed that if I put the bike on the repair stand and use the throttle to turn the chainring, there is a tiny wobble to it, right at the point where it makes the sound.

I removed the drive-side crank, chainring, and spider, and ran it again. Now the motor is smooth and silent. If I put the spider back on again but don't tighten the 5 retaining bolts fully, it is also smooth. As soon as I tighten them even the tiniest bit (< 1nm) the wobble and grind comes back.

The motor works, but I feel like something isn't right, and I suspect it will get worse if I don't deal with it sooner rather than later.

Has anyone had this before?

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Yes I have the exact same thing... Didn't find what it is though....did you get any wiser?

Click to expand...

Nope. I suspect something is rubbing where I can't see it. Haven't found it yet

Balmorhea said:

LeftCoastNurd said:

i've installed one 48V TSDZ2 with stock firmware, and indeed, it peters out above about 70 cadence, and completely drops all boost at 90.

Click to expand...

So... not for cyclists, I guess. That's not surprising for an outfit that would go into production with a fatally flawed mechanical design that looks like a quiz question from first semester mechanical engineering.

Click to expand...

I don't have any experience riding with the commercial middrives, such as the Bosch, Yamaha, etc systems as used by the big bike maker's like Specialized, Giant, Trek... how do these behave at higher cadences ?

(I actually am thinking of dropping by the local Specialized stealer, and giving their Vado SL 5.0 test mule a spin....)