TSDZ2 mid drive with 860C, 850C or SW102 displays only -- Flexible OpenSource firmware (Casainho code only)

plpetrov said:
casainho said:
[
image.png
Click to expand...
What about the sensor cables for the brakes? Will they be wired or wireless? If we have to run two cables to the front, may be it will be a good idea to have wired buttons for those of us that are not interesting in buying the GPS and want to use only the phone app.

What about the places with very strong radio interferences in the 2.4 GHz frequency range.
Click to expand...
I use brake sensors on my ebikes, but, sometimes the magnets fall of from the brake sensor and I have to drive without the sensor, yes, it works If I wait for the motor to stop before brake and that is ok also.

The communication will be Bluetooth and I hope it will work ok as there are gamepads with Bluetooth that work well, no noticeable delay.

Here the schematic for the DIY wireless remote I am being developing - commercial wireless remotes do not exist for connecting the brake sensors.
file.php


[youtube]O67TSVkCuRM[/youtube]

I am thinking that TSDZ2 wireless EBike should work just like the commercial ones from Specialized - please refer to them, see the Youtube videos of how they work. The only thing new would be the brake sensors by wireless.
 
I also use the brake sensor and I would say it was very useful and save me in one case.

It was my understanding the the remote connects to the GPS and then the GPS will connect to the bike. Now if I understand correctly it seems the remote connects to the bike directly and we can use it without GPS. Only the remote and the controller you connect to the motor.

May be as a back up, it will be nice to have wired connection, serial or directly the buttons. Like the existing one to the display but without the display itself.
 
plpetrov said:
I also use the brake sensor and I would say it was very useful and save me in one case.

It was my understanding the the remote connects to the GPS and then the GPS will connect to the bike. Now if I understand correctly it seems the remote connects to the bike directly and we can use it without GPS. Only the remote and the controller you connect to the motor.

May be as a back up, it will be nice to have wired connection, serial or directly the buttons. Like the existing one to the display but without the display itself.
Click to expand...
Yes, it is possible to connect the wireless remote to the wireless display or to the wireless board. Is better to the wireless board so the wireless display is then optional.

Even more complex, I want to connect the remote both to display, so it can change the display page, by ANT+ as it is working currently as seen on my latest video - one button only to skip to next page and long press for previous page.
The other buttons should control the assist level and brake signal and will connect by Bluetooth to the wireless board.
This wireless boards can work simultaneous with Bluetooth and ANT.

Personally I want for my EBike the remote communicating to both the GPS display and the wireless board. If one day I do not use the GPS display, them the change page button will simple do nothing. Everything is very modular and hot swap.
 
I'm pretty new to ebikes, but I always stop pedaling before I brake, and that as soon as I stop, the power cuts. Maybe it's because I've ridden so much for so many decades, but I don't get why one would both pedal and brake.
 
nesdon said:
I'm pretty new to ebikes, but I always stop pedaling before I brake, and that as soon as I stop, the power cuts. Maybe it's because I've ridden so much for so many decades, but I don't get why one would both pedal and brake.
Click to expand...
TSDZ2 can be installed on different style of bicycles, meaning different possible ride types.

I usually like to do a bit of track standing when I stop at red lights -- see on this tutorial how to apply pedal pressure and apply brakes to do a track stand:

[youtube]4VY5CadtcMo[/youtube]
 
casainho said:
plpetrov said:
I also use the brake sensor and I would say it was very useful and save me in one case.

It was my understanding the the remote connects to the GPS and then the GPS will connect to the bike. Now if I understand correctly it seems the remote connects to the bike directly and we can use it without GPS. Only the remote and the controller you connect to the motor.

May be as a back up, it will be nice to have wired connection, serial or directly the buttons. Like the existing one to the display but without the display itself.
Click to expand...
Yes, it is possible to connect the wireless remote to the wireless display or to the wireless board. Is better to the wireless board so the wireless display is then optional.

Even more complex, I want to connect the remote both to display, so it can change the display page, by ANT+ as it is working currently as seen on my latest video - one button only to skip to next page and long press for previous page.
The other buttons should control the assist level and brake signal and will connect by Bluetooth to the wireless board.
This wireless boards can work simultaneous with Bluetooth and ANT.

Personally I want for my EBike the remote communicating to both the GPS display and the wireless board. If one day I do not use the GPS display, them the change page button will simple do nothing. Everything is very modular and hot swap.
Click to expand...

This looks promising. What about the motor firmware? Are you going to keep it the same as for the other displays, keeping the same serial protocol. This could easily give two other possibilities:
1. Easily switch between wired and wireless display simply unplugging the wireless board and connect a display.
2. In case of a second serial port available on the wireless controller, wireless and wired functionality could be used together in a similar way to the implementation of the ESP32 board?
 
plpetrov said:
This looks promising. What about the motor firmware? Are you going to keep it the same as for the other displays, keeping the same serial protocol. This could easily give two other possibilities:
1. Easily switch between wired and wireless display simply unplugging the wireless board and connect a display.
2. In case of a second serial port available on the wireless controller, wireless and wired functionality could be used together in a similar way to the implementation of the ESP32 board?
Click to expand...
1. I wish to not change the motor firmware specifically for this project, currently I can't see a need for that.
The wireless board firmware acts like a virtual display, so it runs as if is a display like 860C or SW102 but I will remove unneeded features and add the specific needed one, but, as far motor controller communication I wish to keep the same as it is currently.
2. That would be another project, with even more development needed.

Personally I just want a very clean EBike with no display, just the wireless remote with the brake sensors. On this same EBike, only when I will use for MTB events or travels, I will attach to the handlebar the GPS wireless display to record the travel and my fitness data.

For my family city EBikes, no display at all, just the wireless remote button and brake sensor (although at anytime I can attach to the handlebar the GPS wireless display).

No more 860C or SW102 displays!! The GPS display is way more advanced!! Or even for the ones you prefer, use the mobile phone as display.

And there are other commercial simple wireless displays in the market. Maybe I will do a cheap DIY one.
 
I updated the firmware to v1.1.0. I noticed on the top of the menu is “trip memories”. When I click on that, the 860c display freezes up with an error code and the buttons became non responsive. I had to reboot it by turning it off using the battery power switch. Other than that, I need to take it out for a test run after work. I noticed I also erased all my previous settings including the torque sensor calibration. Was there something I could do to save those info when I upload the motor firmware?
 
Swannking said:
I updated the firmware to v1.1.0. I noticed on the top of the menu is “trip memories”. When I click on that, the 860c display freezes up with an error code and the buttons became non responsive. I had to reboot it by turning it off using the battery power switch. Other than that, I need to take it out for a test run after work. I noticed I also erased all my previous settings including the torque sensor calibration. Was there something I could do to save those info when I upload the motor firmware?
Click to expand...
That new feature was a contribution from httpss://github.com/Kenny-54 , I wish he could solve that issue.

You need record on a paper or on a file on your PC.
 
Swannking said:
I updated the firmware to v1.1.0. I noticed on the top of the menu is “trip memories”. When I click on that, the 860c display freezes up with an error code and the buttons became non responsive. I had to reboot it by turning it off using the battery power switch. Other than that, I need to take it out for a test run after work. I noticed I also erased all my previous settings including the torque sensor calibration. Was there something I could do to save those info when I upload the motor firmware?
Click to expand...
I also installed 1.1.0. So far everything is ok! The response at the start is definitely better. I could not determine the freezing in the menu "Trip memories"! I will keep testing!
 
mallesepp said:
Swannking said:
I updated the firmware to v1.1.0. I noticed on the top of the menu is “trip memories”. When I click on that, the 860c display freezes up with an error code and the buttons became non responsive. I had to reboot it by turning it off using the battery power switch. Other than that, I need to take it out for a test run after work. I noticed I also erased all my previous settings including the torque sensor calibration. Was there something I could do to save those info when I upload the motor firmware?
Click to expand...
I also installed 1.1.0. So far everything is ok! The response at the start is definitely better. I could not determine the freezing in the menu "Trip memories"! I will keep testing!
Click to expand...

That’s odd that U didn’t have the problem with trip memories. I did a test ride on my recumbent trike. It’s definitely has more juice at the start up. So much that I may have to play around with the torque sensor calibrate at low torque range. Reason being when I am coasting, e.g. going down hill, and pedal, it obviously has not much pedal resistance, the motor kicks in much harder than before and then stop and kicks in again, almost like an oscillation. It’s no big deal but it feels kind of odd.
 
Swannking said:
mallesepp said:
Swannking said:
I updated the firmware to v1.1.0. I noticed on the top of the menu is “trip memories”. When I click on that, the 860c display freezes up with an error code and the buttons became non responsive. I had to reboot it by turning it off using the battery power switch. Other than that, I need to take it out for a test run after work. I noticed I also erased all my previous settings including the torque sensor calibration. Was there something I could do to save those info when I upload the motor firmware?
Click to expand...
I also installed 1.1.0. So far everything is ok! The response at the start is definitely better. I could not determine the freezing in the menu "Trip memories"! I will keep testing!
Click to expand...

That’s odd that U didn’t have the problem with trip memories. I did a test ride on my recumbent trike. It’s definitely has more juice at the start up. So much that I may have to play around with the torque sensor calibrate at low torque range. Reason being when I am coasting, e.g. going down hill, and pedal, it obviously has not much pedal resistance, the motor kicks in much harder than before and then stop and kicks in again, almost like an oscillation. It’s no big deal but it feels kind of odd.
Click to expand...
Try switching the motor current control over to power instead of torque, should smooth things out.
 
Tried the trip memories again and it worked. :roll: I’ll give the power setting a try. I think u are right, it should be better.
 
jeff.page.rides said:
TSDZ2 Fluid Cooling

I’ve been working with this all summer. With several different leaks, different pumps, different tubing, different fluid routing, different fluids, and other difficulties. I finally have a fluid made to fill-up brushless Motors and it is working the way I wanted to from the start with no leaks. I can ride at 700 - 850 Watts all day long and the motor never gets more than 10-20 degrees warmer than the outside air. With all the same steps, but with only fluid in the left side of the case, and no external addons will keep the motor at 30 to 50 degrees warmer than the outside air at 700-850 watts. So that means you can ride at high watts at 100 degrees outside and note worry about overheating. I use a led temp display attached to the bottom of the 860C. It has 2 probes and both temps show, one I leave out in the air on the front of the bike the other one is in the oil in the motor. This also allows you to use a throttle and still have a temperature sensor. It’s cooler, quieter and it’s smoother, but unfortunately like everything I had to learn it all the hard way.

When the riding season is over in about 60 days I will be doing a step by step how-to, with directions and pictures so those that want to tackle this should be able to do it without all the mistakes I had to go through. I’ve attached a couple of photos, so you can see what I’ve done. I also added a new 42 tooth chainring from https://www.eco-ebike.com/collections/drivetrain-pedals/products/42t-chain-ring-for-tsdz2-narrow-wide-10mm-offset-110-bcd-solid-e-bike That works great and costs less than the other brand.

I’m trying to decide if I want to go through the effort to offer a kit with all the parts and fluid needed for both types, internal only and external cooling. There was a lot of trial and error finding the right fittings, the right type of hose, the right fluid the right pump, and everything else. To get all the right parts I had to go through several different suppliers, no one-stop-shop here. It’s a lot of work, but If I decide to do this they will be offered through,
www.electrifybike.com and possibly www.eco-ebike.com
Click to expand...

Loving your work there :)
It looks like the inside of a gaming PC, maybe you should add some coloured dye to the liquid ? :)
 
Hi guys

Maybe especially casainho

I was toying with the idea of replacing the motor in the tsdz2 drive unit with another higher quality motor because the drive unit can take a Lot of power but the motor overheats if this is applied continuously.

I found a motor with similar kv, but more capable such as this
https://maytech.cn/collections/sensored-motors/products/brushless-hall-sensor-motor-mto6374-190-ha

Would the open source firmware be able to drive such a motor if it could be successfully mounted?
 
Vbruun said:
Hi guys

Maybe especially casainho

I was toying with the idea of replacing the motor in the tsdz2 drive unit with another higher quality motor because the drive unit can take a Lot of power but the motor overheats if this is applied continuously.

I found a motor with similar kv, but more capable such as this
https://maytech.cn/collections/sensored-motors/products/brushless-hall-sensor-motor-mto6374-190-ha

Would the open source firmware be able to drive such a motor if it could be successfully mounted?
Click to expand...
The firmware and the motor controller can only drive a motor with hall sensors.
 
That one was sensored ;)

But I take it that the answer is yes if the motor is sensored?
 
I updated my motor to v1.1.0 with a 860c display. I did a few test run. Today, I took it for for 30 mil ride. The route has some good climb (14%). The startup power seems to have improved. At the end of the trip, I noticed the trip distance was not correct. I use imperial system. Instead of roughly 28 mil total, the display registered something close to 17 mil. It was the same for trip distance A or B. The odometer on the other hand seems to have added the correct 28 mil. Could the program had treated the value as km and converted it to mil while the value was correctly recorded as mil and didn’t need any conversion. Any thoughts?
 
Vbruun said:
Hi guys

Maybe especially casainho

I was toying with the idea of replacing the motor in the tsdz2 drive unit with another higher quality motor because the drive unit can take a Lot of power but the motor overheats if this is applied continuously.

I found a motor with similar kv, but more capable such as this
https://maytech.cn/collections/sensored-motors/products/brushless-hall-sensor-motor-mto6374-190-ha

Would the open source firmware be able to drive such a motor if it could be successfully mounted?
Click to expand...

I would argue various mechanical components are not good enough (bearings, shafts) to bother with upgrading the motor which seems to not really fail other than cooling issues which would require a similar fix no matter the motor
 
I guess youre right. I was thinking that maybe a higher grade motor can endure the temps that the original motor gets to without too many fuzzy mods.

But probably not worth the effort :(
 
Vbruun said:
That one was sensored ;)

But I take it that the answer is yes if the motor is sensored?
Click to expand...
The motor controller hardware is ok for this power motor, inductance. Also the firmware was developed specifically for this motor, for other motors you will need to test and see, like the FOC needs a specific inductance value of the motor.
 
casainho said:
Vbruun said:
That one was sensored ;)

But I take it that the answer is yes if the motor is sensored?
Click to expand...
The motor controller hardware is ok for this power motor, inductance. Also the firmware was developed specifically for this motor, for other motors you will need to test and see, like the FOC needs a specific inductance value of the motor.
Click to expand...

thank you
 
Hi Guys, After having driven 2500 km with a 48V TSDZ2 since May 2020 (without issues :) ) I've decided to give the OpenSource firmware a try. I'm currently already happy with the standard software, but am looking foreward to use the OS firmware.

Bought the 860C and build the DIY bootloader box "https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=93818&start=3900"
I've set up the to bootloader box to give off 30Volt and connected it to the display but the display will not power on.
Any idea's what might be the problem?

I've measured the all the output pins on the bafang connectors and all the wiring seems fine. I do notice that the CP2102 module gets hot and my computer sometimes gives an error message that the bootloader box is requiring to much power throught the USB port....

PS: Below a pic of the bike i've build.
48V TSDZ2, 17AH battery, Rohloff 14 speed hub, Chainglider & Magura HS33 rim brakes.
IMG_6130.JPG
 
asje said:
I do notice that the CP2102 module gets hot and my computer sometimes gives an error message that the bootloader box is requiring to much power throught the USB port....
Click to expand...
If the to much power happens only when the display is connected, than I would say it is burned. Clearly something is wrong, it is bot supposed to happen.
 
Mr.Flibble said:
jeff.page.rides said:
TSDZ2 Fluid Cooling

I’ve been working with this all summer. With several different leaks, different pumps, different tubing, different fluid routing, different fluids, and other difficulties. I finally have a fluid made to fill-up brushless Motors and it is working the way I wanted to from the start with no leaks. I can ride at 700 - 850 Watts all day long and the motor never gets more than 10-20 degrees warmer than the outside air. With all the same steps, but with only fluid in the left side of the case, and no external addons will keep the motor at 30 to 50 degrees warmer than the outside air at 700-850 watts. So that means you can ride at high watts at 100 degrees outside and note worry about overheating. I use a led temp display attached to the bottom of the 860C. It has 2 probes and both temps show, one I leave out in the air on the front of the bike the other one is in the oil in the motor. This also allows you to use a throttle and still have a temperature sensor. It’s cooler, quieter and it’s smoother, but unfortunately like everything I had to learn it all the hard way.

When the riding season is over in about 60 days I will be doing a step by step how-to, with directions and pictures so those that want to tackle this should be able to do it without all the mistakes I had to go through. I’ve attached a couple of photos, so you can see what I’ve done. I also added a new 42 tooth chainring from https://www.eco-ebike.com/collections/drivetrain-pedals/products/42t-chain-ring-for-tsdz2-narrow-wide-10mm-offset-110-bcd-solid-e-bike That works great and costs less than the other brand.

I’m trying to decide if I want to go through the effort to offer a kit with all the parts and fluid needed for both types, internal only and external cooling. There was a lot of trial and error finding the right fittings, the right type of hose, the right fluid the right pump, and everything else. To get all the right parts I had to go through several different suppliers, no one-stop-shop here. It’s a lot of work, but If I decide to do this they will be offered through,
www.electrifybike.com and possibly www.eco-ebike.com
Click to expand...

Loving your work there :)
It looks like the inside of a gaming PC, maybe you should add some coloured dye to the liquid ? :)
Click to expand...

The fittings are for a gaming PC, but the hose for a PC goes hard and starts to leak in a very short time with this fluid. So I am using silicon hose, and it needs silicon adheseve on each end to keep it from leaking. And it does have green die in the fluid.
 
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