new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?
- Thread starter emaayan
- Start date
matt912836
100 W
Chambers said:
Not at all.
And it's actually not needed since the swingarm has a horizontal axle slot, I can make the chain tight enough to make it almost impossible to skip without having to break something. It still has the same issue with the chain perfect tension with no tensioner, and still persists, since the issue isnt with the chain skipping. The cyclone is nothing new to me and I've had plenty of experience taking notes over the years working with it, and having to beef up drivetrains to handle its gut wrenching bicycle drive train snapping torque, to know the sound of a chain skipping over teeth or brackets bending by now :lol:
I remember the cog on the top right was still actually functioning perfectly fine even in that state :lol: the only reason I noticed the teeth were like that was because the chain guard snapped off. It would still pick the bike up by itself without skipping even with those shark teeth
that's how solid I like to have my drivetrain.matt912836
100 W
At this point I'm still very satisfied with the performance of the bike, this just forces me to baby It at the point of highest stress. Once the bike is rolling even 2mph I can have no mercy on the power and its flawless. 60 Amps is nice, 80 amps is when it gets really fun! I think I'll be happy with 100 tops. Anything over that I wouldnt be comfortable running through freewheels, even the ones that can claim they can take it. 80 Amps got the motor lukewarm after a few miles of hard riding, like you definitely used it, but nothing concerning at all. I cant wait to force air cool this thing and see what it takes to really get it nice and warm with active cooling 8) my 3kw would get hot on 40 amps stock but stay cool at even 60 amps with forced air cooling, so it expect it to make a huge difference with an even bigger motor core.
I got tired of my XLD brainpower 35A*72V controller. Ordered Phaserunner, but I'm struggling to get it working.
a) I get hall errors. Like yellow coming too often I think and it messes pattern.
b) I can't get it working in 100% sensorless mode. TEST PROCEDURE works and motor spins. Can spin it backwards too. When I use throttle, motor just does strange sound and spins s_l_o_w_l_y.
HELP!
Turning motor with hand: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcqBYwxCyFo
Testing throttle: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=na0bI5Tq9VI
a) I get hall errors. Like yellow coming too often I think and it messes pattern.
b) I can't get it working in 100% sensorless mode. TEST PROCEDURE works and motor spins. Can spin it backwards too. When I use throttle, motor just does strange sound and spins s_l_o_w_l_y.
HELP!
Turning motor with hand: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcqBYwxCyFo
Testing throttle: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=na0bI5Tq9VI
CobraJet
10 W
- Joined
- Feb 9, 2015
- Messages
- 80
matt912836 said:
I remember the cog on the top right was still actually functioning perfectly fine even in that state :lol: the only reason I noticed the teeth were like that was because the chain guard snapped off. It would still pick the bike up by itself without skipping even with those shark teeth
Those hooked teeth are evidence of a stretched chain. It may look in perfect shape but definatley stretched.
I went through this constantly on motorcycle builds years ago. It's the "Tim Allen Syndrome" kicking in! LOL
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEAoQckYfmk
matt912836
100 W
CobraJet said:matt912836 said:
I remember the cog on the top right was still actually functioning perfectly fine even in that state :lol: the only reason I noticed the teeth were like that was because the chain guard snapped off. It would still pick the bike up by itself without skipping even with those shark teeth
Those hooked teeth are evidence of a stretched chain. It may look in perfect shape but definatley stretched.
I went through this constantly on motorcycle builds years ago. It's the "Tim Allen Syndrome" kicking in! LOL
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEAoQckYfmk
Yes they are, reminders to show how strong bmx chain really is! Never had a problem breaking chains, only wearing cogs down. Those took a few months of hard riding to stretch the chain enough to cause them to deform that way.
Decided to take a new approach with this build, since even my heavy duty free wheels are being overstressed and are flexing under power. Dropping the cranks and freewheels, even the motor freewheel and running the motor directly to the back wheel via fixed sprockets. With no rear or motor freewheels I should even be able to get regen, Hopefully I can get this motor to play nice with a 96v sabvoton.
regen will definitely add extra heat too so forced air venting is a must.[youtube]hXPTkmmMjIw[/youtube]
matt912836
100 W
Can someone with a 4kw please measure their motor and provide dimensions?? I just measured mine and it's definitely not the size it was supposed to be.. I thought something was off when it seemed barely bigger than my 3kw... I've seen photos where the 4kw looks wayyy bigger instead!
This is from shaft to motor edge
This is the motor core alone
This is what the 4kw is supposed to be :|
I received this motor last month advertised as a 4kw :?
This is from shaft to motor edge
This is the motor core alone
This is what the 4kw is supposed to be :|
I received this motor last month advertised as a 4kw :?
matt912836
100 W
Except my motor is only 4.5 inches at that measurement :?CobraJet said:
Which matches up exactly with what the 3kw motor is sized for..
Did he really just send me a redesigned 3kw motor with metal gears? It definitely sounds different but the size is almost identical to my 3kw, maybe a few mm bigger at best.
matt912836 said:Except my motor is only 4.5 inches at that measurement :?CobraJet said:
Which matches up exactly with what the 3kw motor is sized for..
Did he really just send me a redesigned 3kw motor with metal gears? It definitely sounds different but the size is almost identical to my 3kw, maybe a few mm bigger at best.
Motor is the same other than the motor core (magnet inside of finned shell part). Motor core is 25% bigger in 4kw motor. So measured 3kw motor is 35mm and 4kw motor 48mm for the content of the finned section. Of course there are air and metal gaps to be accounted for. If that part is 3/4 inch longer than a 3kw motor, you are good to go.
matt912836
100 W
....
matt912836
100 W
Skaiwerd said:
Kind of why I just threw money his way without much of a worry or concern... i basically spent $360 on an updated 3kw motor with metal gears..
the sad part is I'm not even disappointed with the performance of the motor! I'm still getting insane performance out this motor, even on this heavy frame. But it does heat up eventually and I wont have the headroom to get up to 100 amp peaks like it should have. Plus the whole purpose was to have the wider 4kw so I could have the bigger magnets it has. should be an absolute beast but apparently getting it straight from the source is out the question
Already sent in my dispute to the bank with all pictures and proof I could provide.. hes long stopped responding to my emails so this is the only route left to take..
On a more positive note, my updated simplified drivetrain is holding up beautifully! Thinking about making the jump to 415, #41 or even 420 chain for peace of mind. Not to say the bmx chain isnt holding up, it's doing amazing for the brutal ~6kw I'm running through it.
DingusMcGee
10 kW
Hi finally. You folks seem unsure of Cyclone-Taiwan claims? I started to look into their 6000 watt motor. Just as I wanted to actually place the order the old web site vanished . There now is new web site.
See
https://www.cyclone-tw.com/product/6/data/20
The Ship to feature did not include city, state and zip. I contacted them with this info, but it was the weekend. We will see.
I have 3 Specialized Big Hit edirt bikes that have various modifications. New forks and motor for the oldest of the fleet.
If the motor is too wide for the pedals cranks, I see sickbikeparts sells a wide 226 mm BB axle that fits the 68mm, which may make for more often pedal grounding while turning and leaning. Other thoughts: go petal -less as I do not pedal any on the sidehill rides with a 3000 w motor.
See
https://www.cyclone-tw.com/product/6/data/20
The Ship to feature did not include city, state and zip. I contacted them with this info, but it was the weekend. We will see.
I have 3 Specialized Big Hit edirt bikes that have various modifications. New forks and motor for the oldest of the fleet.
If the motor is too wide for the pedals cranks, I see sickbikeparts sells a wide 226 mm BB axle that fits the 68mm, which may make for more often pedal grounding while turning and leaning. Other thoughts: go petal -less as I do not pedal any on the sidehill rides with a 3000 w motor.
DingusMcGee
10 kW
My Cyclone 6000 watt KIT arrived today. Contrary to the Elite Motor/Cyclone's motor diagrams showing the 6000W motor and the 3000 W motor as having the same dimensions, the 6000 W motor is about 1inch longer (width between cranks needed) overall than the 3000W motor. Let's say 7 1/2" vs 6 5/8".
Since I bought the complete mounting kit, the 6000W motor with the included 7" ISIS axle will fit the new motor width/pedal/crank width using a 68 mm BB shell.The needed expansion of about 1" is achieved with a 33 mm threaded sleeve that screws into the left side of the BB shell. With the threaded shell parts and lock rings the kit effectively makes a wider BB shell.
One can only wonder how much additional stiffening the standard included 2 plate mount and this sleeve will need for to reduce flexing adequately to keep the motor chain on the cog? Will we be back to making a stiffer mount like the early days of the 3000W motor mount?
The longer axle will make for a bigger Q-Factor but some 152 mm length cranks would make it about the same? Likely even less. The axle is less than 1/2" wider of center line than what the 153 mm gave.? No, it is the same on the right and about 1" wider on the left. So more left pedal down maneuvering when turning left or just go with foot pegs on both sides and no more pedals
The throttle plug has 4 wires, the standard RGB and a purple wire tied back but labeled "high brake". Anyone familiar with it's optional use?
Since I bought the complete mounting kit, the 6000W motor with the included 7" ISIS axle will fit the new motor width/pedal/crank width using a 68 mm BB shell.The needed expansion of about 1" is achieved with a 33 mm threaded sleeve that screws into the left side of the BB shell. With the threaded shell parts and lock rings the kit effectively makes a wider BB shell.
One can only wonder how much additional stiffening the standard included 2 plate mount and this sleeve will need for to reduce flexing adequately to keep the motor chain on the cog? Will we be back to making a stiffer mount like the early days of the 3000W motor mount?
The longer axle will make for a bigger Q-Factor but some 152 mm length cranks would make it about the same? Likely even less. The axle is less than 1/2" wider of center line than what the 153 mm gave.? No, it is the same on the right and about 1" wider on the left. So more left pedal down maneuvering when turning left or just go with foot pegs on both sides and no more pedals
The throttle plug has 4 wires, the standard RGB and a purple wire tied back but labeled "high brake". Anyone familiar with it's optional use?
DingusMcGee
10 kW
The 6000 W motor spins -- on the workbench but a note from Paco of Cyclone.....on the failed "shopping cart"
Thanks Paco for the discount. Your new webpage is much easier to navigate and read.
Thanks Paco for the discount. Your new webpage is much easier to navigate and read.
DingusMcGee
10 kW
The 6000 W Cyclone installed by 6 am. Fast. If we get another Stimulus check, get one of these motors. Hooked up as a one speed , 410 motor chain and 415 rear chain. 3 Turnigy 20 Ah 6s LiPo batts. 3 speed control on bar switch. After use of brakes with Electric brake motor stop signal setup (change delay action on controller with Emotor program? Anyone know?) motor stalls until zeroing throttle signal -- no good for edirtbike use. Eliminated this lag by routing brake Switch wire through Cycle Analyst.
The old Shimano Deore XT freehub failed after some 20 fast starts. I switched to my wheel with DT Swiss 350 hub. Is the DT Swiss freehub still reputed to be the strongest?
Gears: 22 white Ind freehub on motor to 44T steel cyclone; double steel 36 T to double steel 44T on rear with 415 chain. Can do burnouts from zero against headwall.
PS. Fox 40 forks on hold as I cannot get SunRingle MTX 39 rim 26" 32H until Dec 1. But sooner is getting a temp sensor motor shut off as this is a must with now ocassionionally 80 amps heating the same diameter motor shell.
The old Shimano Deore XT freehub failed after some 20 fast starts. I switched to my wheel with DT Swiss 350 hub. Is the DT Swiss freehub still reputed to be the strongest?
Gears: 22 white Ind freehub on motor to 44T steel cyclone; double steel 36 T to double steel 44T on rear with 415 chain. Can do burnouts from zero against headwall.
PS. Fox 40 forks on hold as I cannot get SunRingle MTX 39 rim 26" 32H until Dec 1. But sooner is getting a temp sensor motor shut off as this is a must with now ocassionionally 80 amps heating the same diameter motor shell.
Grantmac
10 kW
Looks like a prime candidate to ditch the gearbox entirely in favor of just two chain reductions like the LR BB.
DingusMcGee
10 kW
Has LR dropped using the Gates Belt? I had a LRSB motor and tore the Gates Belt on the first headwall attempt on a single track hill climb. Certainly two chains are better than a belt anywhere for serious edirtbiking.
This afternoon I took the 6KW edirtbike on steep sidehill rocky single tracks. The 6k motor does grinds slower and smoother than the 3K motor, not to forget vastly more acceleration. The 6k motor does better on this type of riding than the 3K motor. But the switch to the bigger motor may require some heavier duty hardware -- like stronger free hubs, chains and batteries.
After lightly attempting to remove the left motor cover I realized it was sealed -- maybe water tight? So the K type thermistor will be installed with JB Weld on the outside back upper part of the motor not on the inside. Since the wire of this radiant heat floor temp thermistor is rated 80 C, I will consider motor shut down high temp when the outside of the motor shell reaches 80C. We see how this works. Today's high was about 35F resulting in a barely warm motor.
Grantmac
10 kW
New LR motor only runs a single stage reduction to the rear wheel about 8:1 at 10kw.
Ditching the gearbox would be simple with your setup using just chains.
Ditching the gearbox would be simple with your setup using just chains.
DingusMcGee
10 kW
Grantmac,
There are trade offs for going no gearbox.
The following is edirtbike talk:
Likely and as LR mentions, "... large rear sprockets." I can see using a rear sprocket as big as a 203mm disc brake rotor as my 203 rotors have not got bent, yet. A 48T sprocket is about the same diameter as a 203 rotor. Gears bigger than 48T at the BB certainly would get hit more and possibly bent. A bigger chainring on the rear axle is less vulnerable than one at the BB location.
Two chain reductions using 18/48 and 16/48 would get that 8:1 reduction for a big (gearboxless) motor and have no chainrings bigger than 203mm. Using two reductions of 16/48 would get a 9:1. I see LR sells a 72T rear if you want less size at the BB.
LR touts the 8:1 reduction using a 10Kw motor ? and has his setup, " For Sale." Judging from my past purchase from LR, his productions likely don't get an equivalent field test to the terrain I ride. Otherwise he would not have used the Gates Belt, which is just one instance of such shortcomings I know .
Secondly LR makes a lot of proclamations without reference to any testing he has discovered or actually done -- pure unchecked intuition. E.g. "...gearboxes use/waste a lot of energy.... But gearboxes may aid in getting the smoothness you seek on steep terrain better than a one size fits all approach. What we specifically don't know is, 'What is 10K Quiltbox really good at doing and can do it better than what you are improving your machine to do on the terrain you ride."
The life time of one gearbox exceeds many chain and sprocket changes. Things stay clean in the gearbox.
There are trade offs for going no gearbox.
The following is edirtbike talk:
Likely and as LR mentions, "... large rear sprockets." I can see using a rear sprocket as big as a 203mm disc brake rotor as my 203 rotors have not got bent, yet. A 48T sprocket is about the same diameter as a 203 rotor. Gears bigger than 48T at the BB certainly would get hit more and possibly bent. A bigger chainring on the rear axle is less vulnerable than one at the BB location.
Two chain reductions using 18/48 and 16/48 would get that 8:1 reduction for a big (gearboxless) motor and have no chainrings bigger than 203mm. Using two reductions of 16/48 would get a 9:1. I see LR sells a 72T rear if you want less size at the BB.
LR touts the 8:1 reduction using a 10Kw motor ? and has his setup, " For Sale." Judging from my past purchase from LR, his productions likely don't get an equivalent field test to the terrain I ride. Otherwise he would not have used the Gates Belt, which is just one instance of such shortcomings I know .
Secondly LR makes a lot of proclamations without reference to any testing he has discovered or actually done -- pure unchecked intuition. E.g. "...gearboxes use/waste a lot of energy.... But gearboxes may aid in getting the smoothness you seek on steep terrain better than a one size fits all approach. What we specifically don't know is, 'What is 10K Quiltbox really good at doing and can do it better than what you are improving your machine to do on the terrain you ride."
The life time of one gearbox exceeds many chain and sprocket changes. Things stay clean in the gearbox.
