new eZip motor

Not impossible, but as others have said, I suspect there was a fair bit of artistic license in that video. The whole thing smells of a set up. Dad does it first off camera, gets the clicks using the son "oh wow child genius!". Not sure how he's still alive after breaking a couple front forks at anywhere near his claimed speed.

One thing you might want to note is how much he pedals when starting, then how slow it takes to get over 30mph, then a cut to the 40mph+ bit.

That thing is wound for a very high speed and no torque. If he did get to that speed it would have been from over volting, high speed wind, light weight and low aerodynamic drag, and crafty camera angles hiding the hill.

yea.

Makes sense.

I just figured out how to break those 3S packs down to 1S quick.

I ordered all those balance plugs for nothing unless I hook one 6S balance plug up to 6S - 10P.

Both chargers will balance 60 cells and will order that 1S charger that charges up to six - 1S - 10 P packs also for 13 , 14 or 15S.

I will need more bullets though as every 60 cells in parallel series get a male and female bullet for series connection to run 12P I can then stack/add 1s - 10Ps with bullets for 13. 14. or 15S to run.

Please let me know if it could work.

A lot of wrap gets tore off the cells when breaking them down from 3S to 1S. I need a few rolls of electric tape and already have liquid electric tape.

Basically all the cells will end up like this. Then I hook them in series and solder on bullet plugs. for 6S - 60 cells. The series connection enables 12S and can add more than one 1S - 10P for higher voltage to the controller if it can do it.



It just makes sense.

If each 6S balance plug could balance charge 60 cells than 20 balance plugs is enough for 1,200 cells.

Since a lot of cells (1/4) so far are very low voltage like < 2V some < 1V and the others (3/4) are all above 3V the only thing that can be done to separate 150 cells into 1S - 10P packs is to charge all of them by hooking the really low volt cells in parallel to higher voltage cells as the chargers wont charge a low volt cell if it reads too low.

Once all 150 cells are fully charged a 24 hour period is needed to get accurate resting voltage and then voltage as well as internal resistance will need to be tested before separating the cells into 1S - 10P packs.

That means I can just keep ordering 100 or 200 cells a month and build a 1S - 10P pack every day or two forever. :lol:

After all are done for the month I then do the balance plugs and start balance charging the packs. I will be able to run any voltage the controller I hook up to is able to do.

It sounds much better that hooking a 6S balance plug to every 6 cells. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Thanks.

LC. out.

PS.

I had a few beers and am eating some nuts and going to sleep. Tomorrow my controller , thumb throttle for my Bafang motors will be here and I need new axle nuts to mount and test. Home depot needs to happen. I also think I saw on my e mail that the 20 - 6S balance plugs were in I think. It looks like my e bike workshop will be active. I also decided to re mount the 750W currie eZip motor that is on the back. I think I can do it better now. I will need new bolts. Those are rusty and wore.

Thanks.

LC. out.

As the Hub Motor Turns and the LiPo Fire Burns. Man am I lazy.

Had to force myself to get up to make the post office by 5 PM.

To do what I want with the cells I need a meter or charger that can accurately measure internal resistance of Lithium and LiPos.

Please post a link if possible because I have to go to pick stuff up today. The balance plugs are in and my Bafang controller and throttle. I also need to go to a hard ware store for those axle nuts.


Thanks.

LC. out.

Damn it man

I remember those daze (days). I guess thats why I am still sitting on some 25R's, bags of holders, insulators and a tab welder off to the side. Not pleasurable anymore to deal with all that crap, not at all. Even though I have plenty of time on my hands. I havent left the house in daze (days). Though the price of a decent pack aint to my liking either. I saw someone selling a Grintech battery locally a few weeks ago, though I did not believe the sellers excuse for selling. I'd almost go back to Makita daze (days), where you just got to deal with the encasement rather then building anything, the most building is charging to all same voltage and grabbing some 10g wiring from the orange Homeless Despot store and do some soldering.

Welcome to the club!

latecurtis said:

Man am I lazy.

Click to expand...

I had a few beers and am eating some nuts and going to sleep. Tomorrow my controller , thumb throttle for my Bafang motors will be here and I need new axle nuts to mount and test. Home depot needs to happen. I also think I saw on my e mail that the 20 - 6S balance plugs were in I think.

Click to expand...

No I think you missed the point.

I love working on e bikes and building battery packs. My being lazy is called a hang over from drinking beer. I can't sleep normal hours. I am nocturnal.

Hypersomnia, or excessive sleepiness, is a condition in which a person has trouble staying awake during the day. People who have hypersomnia can fall asleep at any time -- for instance, at work or while they are driving.

I could never be a truck driver. If I don't get enough sleep I will fall asleep anywhere and if I don't drink beer am only able to sleep 3 or 4 hours and wake up. I will function about 4 or 5 hours and have to sleep again for 3 or 4 hours. It sucks.

However if I can get about 75 to 100 oz of beer in me and a little weed I go into Poppa bear sleep mode and can sleep in excess of 10 hours but am up about every hour or so to piss and drink water due to my type 2 diabetes. I know if I consumed too many carbohydrates or sugars in a day as I will drool on my pillow. It is a constant battle. I need to lose > 30 pounds but is impossible due to my slow metabolism. It really sucks.

Anyway I doubt I will make Home Depot today. Lucky I made the post office for the balance plugs. I need to check my e mail to see if the controller and throttle are in. They will ship to a local Rite Aide drug store that has an Amazon pick up box. Similar to FedX at Wall Greens where I got the batteries and Bafang motors.

What I really need A. S . A . P is a meter that measures the internal resistance of any battery. Especially Lithium but would like to measure LiPos as well as SLAs so I know when it is time to recycle a battery and most important can find 10 cells with about the same internal resistance and resting voltage 48 hours after a full charge. It is the only way to combine 10 - 1S - 18650 cells into a 1S - 10P pack,

After that I build 13 total and hook up my 6S balance plugs to two separate 6S - 10P packs for charging with my two 6S - LiPo chargers. I then can add as many 1S - 10P packs as my motor and controller can handle for running in series so could use a multi port - 1S charger for that but most important is a meter or charger function which quickly and accurately measures the internal resistance of each 18650 cell.

Without that I am just guessing and guessing could lead to building unstable packs and I do not want that.

Please let me know the cheapest most simple meter for measuring internal resistance.

https://www.amazon.com/Tenergy-Battery-Intelligent-Digital-Balancer/dp/B0178P8H9U/ref=sr_1_14_sspa?dchild=1&gclid=CjwKCAiAudD_BRBXEiwAudakX_rKrbFTeiWvg9Vd3ZT3fzEYTvSylt8VG5lyjS6ELNtWfI18AKQI1xoCeXcQAvD_BwE&hvadid=177795626340&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9015546&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=b&hvrand=12470014638939809284&hvtargid=kwd-1556483657&hydadcr=25971_9904070&keywords=battery+internal+resistance+tester&qid=1609887481&sr=8-14-spons&tag=googhydr-20&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUFQMFRIQVVGRkVTRFEmZW5jcnlwdGVkSWQ9QTA3NDk1NzJDMUtPSTE1OURMMVAmZW5jcnlwdGVkQWRJZD1BMDAxOTQyMDFFODZKU0hQRFJEMU8md2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9tdGYmYWN0aW9uPWNsaWNrUmVkaXJlY3QmZG9Ob3RMb2dDbGljaz10cnVl



If I pay a little extra shipping I can have that by Friday. That works for me as I still need to tear apart those 3S packs and start bulk charging before testing. Testing will be done 48V after a full charge for each cell.

Thanks.

LC. out.

latecurtis said:

My being lazy is called a hang over from drinking beer. ...
... However if I can get about 75 to 100 oz of beer in me and a little weed I go into Poppa bear sleep mode and can sleep in excess of 10 hours but am up about every hour or so to piss and drink water due to my type 2 diabetes. I know if I consumed too many carbohydrates or sugars in a day as I will drool on my pillow. It is a constant battle. I need to lose > 30 pounds but is impossible due to my slow metabolism. It really sucks.

Click to expand...

Give up the beer (~7000 calories per week) and lose 8-9 lbs per month! ... but will have to give up the joy of hangovers?

latecurtis said:

As the Hub Motor Turns and the LiPo Fire Burns. Man am I lazy.

Had to force myself to get up to make the post office by 5 PM.

To do what I want with the cells I need a meter or charger that can accurately measure internal resistance of Lithium and LiPos.

Click to expand...

Damn boy!
You should really follow my simple methods to charge, test, evaluate, assemble and confirm "proper" battery builds that require no balancing for hundreds of cycles and thousands of miles! Important to test before combining.
I've built many a successful battery over the past ... 13+ years! With several still in service.

Batteries that constantly require balancing are defective!

Of course, if you build a large enough battery, law of averages, you might get a near equal assortment of poor and defective cells in each bank? So ...

You should really follow my simple methods to charge, test, evaluate, assemble and confirm "proper" battery builds that require no balancing for hundreds of cycles and thousands of miles! Important to test before combining.

Click to expand...

The way I do things is I solder a wire to both sides of each 18650 cell.

Some cells are very low like under a volt. Those will need to go in parallel to the lowest cells the LiPo charger can detect. Then parallel charge. I will be twisting wires together and bulk charging as many at a time as I can.

Later after about 48 hours I will try and charge the lower ones under 4V again and when all cells are charged I measure internal resistance and voltage and combine all cells that are close to each other in 1S - 10P packs then combine them. The internal resistance meter will make it all work and tell me when a cell is not worth charging.

I can also measure the old LiPos with the meter as well as those old 10S packs I bought off of e bay that seem to be losing their capacity. Cells that have a high resistance I need to recycle.





I went to ace hardware.

The nuts I got there work much better but the washers do not quite fit. Almost though. Their purpose is to fill in the lawyers lip. I had to use the same cutting tool I used for cutting those 3S packs open. I made it fit with a hammer and flat head screw driver but there is still a little space. I will fill that in with JB weld and sand it so it will be perfect tomorrow.

I got a torque arm on the side the wires come out and am rigging something up on the disk break side with a part of a torque arm.

I have to test both wheels tomorrow so am just tightening down the nuts really tight and go very easy on the throttle. I just want to make sure the motors get power and work. The real test will be a couple days after I apply the JB weld over those spacers I inserted in the lawyers lip. I will also need to get both wheels trued before final installation and a test run.




Thanks.

LC. out.

If you want any degree of safety\reliability\maintenance freedom you must test for self-discharge!
Essential if you don't want to have to re-balance constantly.

DrkAngel said:

If you want any degree of safety\reliability\maintenance freedom you must test for self-discharge!
Essential if you don't want to have to re-balance constantly.

Click to expand...

Or you can test for total capacity, use an active balancing board, and not worry about it.

After "proper" testing I assemble maintenance free batteries for hundreds of trouble free cycles with no need for any type of balance or BMS ...

DrkAngel said:

After "proper" testing I assemble maintenance free batteries for hundreds of trouble free cycles with no need for any type of balance or BMS ...

Click to expand...

Or you can skip the overhead, use an active balancer, and not worry about it.

I sometimes use automotive grade modules that I'd very much prefer not to disassemble, and with balancing circuits I don't have to consider it.

Chalo said:

Or you can test for total capacity, use an active balancing board, and not worry about it.

Click to expand...

Personally I'd rather build a good battery than put a "Band-aid" on a defective battery.

Well I was going to bulk charge and re charge cells that did not make it to >4V

Like I said some cells are very low but to determine their overall health they all need to be around 4 volts or > 4

That could take as many as 3 charge times as if I have to parallel low cells < 1V or < 2V with cells > 3V just to be able to charge them.

In that situation The cells > 3V might be > 4V but the cells that were < 3V might not be 4V or > 3.5V so may have to pair those up for a second charge.

After all that though I intend on leaving all cells sit for 48 hours to measure voltage to see if there are cells < 3.5V.

Anything lower than 3.8V is probably garbage or not good enough to make a part of a 1S - 10P - pack.

Then there is the internal resistance test. If for some reason the internal resistance is normal compared to other cells I could pair them up and charge a third time but if the internal resistance is higher than that of the healthy cells I need to throw that cell away.

Does that sound right ?????






Say good by to that big nasty lawyers lip. :lol: :lol: :lol:

I still have to do the other side. I will wait until that side is cured. The washer I ground down to fit is inside and the JB weld is all around it. I will need to sand it smooth. Should I paint it or not after sanding ???????

Please let me know.

Thanks.

LC. out.

DrkAngel said:

Chalo said:

Or you can test for total capacity, use an active balancing board, and not worry about it.

Click to expand...

Personally I'd rather build a good battery than put a "Band-aid" on a defective battery.

Click to expand...

I've been servicing enough tech for long enough that I know gambling on perfection is a fool's errand. Setting things right is a lot more reliable than depending on them to be right without intervention.

Yea. It seems you and DA. have different approaches and is ok. I also have my own way of doing things but together we all learn. There is most always more than one way to achieve a goal.

I believe that my tester I ordered also does capacity. It is possible I could run a capacity test on each 1S -10P - pack before hooking them all together in series to run 12S to 14S.

First though I need to charge up all cells and wait about 48 hours and then check resting voltage for self discharge and then internal resistance on each cell and I will have > 150 cells to charge and test.

Anyway for me it is about learning to easily overcome obstacles in the e bike work shop. 3 or 4 years ago I would have had to change forks due to that big old nasty lawyers lip and if I did use JB weld it may not have held up as I would not have taken the time to grind down washers with a Dremel tool and insert them into the lawyers lip prior to applying the JB weld.

That would be like pouring cement to build a foundation and skipping the re bar. Not a very good decision when the foundation cracks and your house falls down. The make shift washers will increase the integrity of the JB weld like 1.000 %.

Then there is what to do if a 18650 cell were to come completely unwrapped. When first dealing with them a few years back they would have probably got thrown out. But today I tape them back up and with the liquid electrical tape I re install the round non conductive washer thing perfectly on the top and when the liquid electrical tape under it dries I have a perfect insulated 18650 cell ready to solder wires to.

Back to testing 18650 cells I have a question.

I test and combine cells and build 12 - 1S - 10P packs with the intention of running all in series or two 6S - packs in series.

What would you do if three or four of these 1S - 10P packs were about 30% lower in capacity than the rest and the rest were all within 10 or 15% capacity.

My answer. - Add two cells to each of the lower capacity packs for 1S - 12P and then charge those and run another capacity test

That should bring them up to 10 to 15% of the capacity of the rest.

How many of you guys have thought of that.

My only issue is the amount of time I will spend accomplishing my goal. However I know that I will build some awesome 12 - 14S packs and will eventually propel an e bike > 40 mph.


thanks.

LC. out.

Cheap testers are all the same, to get a good one you'd need to spend more then all your ebike experiments combined.
You need to setup something that drains the battery to a set amount and see the Coulombs pulled, or you can use a Cycle Analyst to see whats been used.

48 hours rest isnt long enough to see weak ones, you'd need to let them rest a month and more. The really weak ones will be noticeable.

Oh. Ok.

I did not know that.

I figure as long as the capacity test is 80 to 90% accurate it will do.

If I need to go as far as running 1S - 14P packs to be within 10 to 15% the capacity of the other 1S - 10P packs that I test then that is acceptable but any more than 14 cells in parallel to run in series with 1S - 10P - packs will not work for me as I will find a better use for those like a massive 12V pack consisting of the weaker cells. That could power my 22W - 1,700 lumen headlight instead of the 22 Ah - SLAs,

Speaking of the SLAs If I order two more I would have 53V of SLA to run the 26" hub motor or the 1,800W brushless motor. That would be very heavy though but the triangle rack on the 26" dual suspension could be reinforced for that. It might be a good option for me as these 18650 packs could take a month or two to get together.

It would make the bike almost like a motorcycle as the 1,000W - 36V brush motor is up front and can put the new 36V 10S packs up there with the controller and mount the 48V hub motor controller on the side of the triangle rack with the 4 - 22 Ah - SLAs on top. I will need to reinforce the rack though. With two motors running > 1,000 watts each I see no problem with the extra weight.

That could also give me time to build more packs and perhaps even be able to build enough packs for > 100 mile range. I replace the four SLAs with a 56V - 14S - 30P pack for the hub motor and a 11S - 40P - pack for the 36V - 1,000W hub motor. I could go 100 miles at about 30 mph without damaging the motors as the two motors and controllers would share the load so top speed would be 33 to 34 mph and cruising speed 28 to 30 mph. any hills > 20 mph.

With four 22 Ah - SLAs and all my 10S lithium packs I should be good for 50 miles range at about 22 to 25 mph until all the packs I am building are finished. The hub motor might be done this week. I hope so as I put 10 in my gas tank to go pick it up.

thanks.

LC. out.

latecurtis said:

I need to lose > 30 pounds but is impossible due to my slow metabolism. It really sucks.

Click to expand...

Unless you have hypothyroidism, or your body temperature is abnormally low, slow metabolism means only one thing - You don't have enough muscle mass compared to how much you eat.

There's really no other explanation. You can't break the laws of physics. If you're an ultra-athlete, your body can become more efficient, but I don't think you fit into that category. Even for those ultra-athletes, only exercise becomes more efficient. Their basal metabolic rate doesn't.

Consume less, expend more, build more muscle, allow yourself to be cold for up to 2 hours per day. (Shivering burns calories and encourages fat to be stored as "brown" fat, which burns "white" fat to make heat.)

Consume less, expend more, build more muscle, allow yourself to be cold for up to 2 hours per day. (Shivering burns calories and encourages fat to be stored as "brown" fat, which burns "white" fat to make heat.)

Click to expand...

Yea. That is most difficult as I am a person who loves food. However I do not snack in between meals and never eat awhile drinking beer. I just love food and beer. I eat healthy about 50% maybe 65% of the time and try to lift some light weights every day but am lucky if I do 4 days out of the week. I need to walk more. Walking is the best way to burn fat and increase metabolism.

Anyway I have been grinding down the torque arms. Trying to get enough thread to get those nuts on the axle a little better. I also have eliminated the lawyers lip from the equation. I hope that some day someone can look back on this post and see how I did that. I also hope they take the time to grind down a washer and insert it like I did as without that I would have no faith in the integrity of the JB weld.

I need to take a walk now for exercise. Wall-Mart is my destination and need a little fine grade sand paper before paint. I used the small wheel (Dremel tool) to flatten the high spots and after some light sanding will be painting to seal the deal. You will not even know that a lawyers lip was even there when I am finished. I hope someday someone looks back on this post and does the same thing to their lawyers lip issue.


I still need to test both hub motors as besides the wheels needing to be trued I see no reason not to order more of these Bafang motors but I will need to test them out under load on the street. I need to hear the motors as if there is internal damage I will be able to hear it. These motors are popular and e bay sells a ton of replacement parts like the gear assembly and the parts are cheap so am considering like four more of these motors.

Thanks.

LC. out.

How do you plan to use torque arms on those forks?

Nothing changed since those photos except I got rid of the lawyers lips and took a grinder to the torque arms so I can get the axle nuts on all the way.

I am not rushing this. Tomorrow is sand and paint the drop outs and torque arms and the next day and will test the two motors. I am taking the chain drive motor off the back so the bike will be lighter when I haul it up and down the stairs.

I will be re mounting the 750W gear reduction motor and getting rid of the 2 by 6 I used. It is too much weight and takes up too much space. I would like to make room for a rear brake.



Thanks.

LC. out.

I would have to see if I could slide torque arms on the inside of the forks as I just use flat plate steel. If I couldnt do that then I'd have to buy those fancy expensive torque arms, even if they are $5 shipped to my door they are "expensive" compared to steel laying around.

latecurtis said:

I will be re mounting the 750W gear reduction motor and getting rid of the 2 by 6 I used. It is too much weight and takes up too much space. I would like to make room for a rear brake.

Click to expand...

Wow, you courageous wild man!
FWD and front brakes only ... in Winter! ???
Any sane person would label that a suicide machine!