Big update to the biker bar & order of the forums

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Big update to the biker bar & order of the forums

Post by neptronix » Mar 21 2021 3:14pm

Hey all.

I went to temporarily move the ebike section to the top to aid in a reshuffling project, and realized maybe the off topic type stuff should have been at the bottom all along... not to de-emphasize it, but to catch the eye of the new member there first.

I have deleted my offtopic section, as it's redundant.. and other toxic discussions has settled down, so no new changes to the rules and structure need to be made, aside from improving the EV categories.

Because the biker bar is at the bottom, it has space to add more subforums in the future.. and i think doing so would be cool.

..so.. this change to forum order is temporary, but i'd like to hear some feedback on making it permanent.
"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them, humanity cannot survive." - Dalai Lama

My first major build: 1.6kW 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500 MTB.
Monster MTB: Leafmotor 1500w @ 4kW on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The monster scooter: Heavy duty Cannondale semi recumbent - under construction.
Blue Dream: Maxaraya FS semi recumbent and high efficiency mid-drive - under construction.

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Re: Big update to the biker bar & order of the forums

Post by nicobie » Mar 22 2021 2:08pm

Sounds fine to me. I'm assuming that "other toxic" will still be hidden from google 'bots and the like?
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my eTownie build thread: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=23701
Magazine article https://www.electricbike.com/nicks-etownie/

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Re: Big update to the biker bar & order of the forums

Post by neptronix » Mar 22 2021 2:22pm

Indeed!

I'm glad it isn't looking offputting. The layout makes sense to my eyes, but not everyone sees things the same way.
I'm liking the expanded amount of room this provides for our core topic. The ebike section in the future may contain around 3 more categories so that all kinds of discussions that don't have a home aren't jammed into 'ebike general' and 'ebike technical'.

Perhaps this is not so temporary.. :)
"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them, humanity cannot survive." - Dalai Lama

My first major build: 1.6kW 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500 MTB.
Monster MTB: Leafmotor 1500w @ 4kW on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The monster scooter: Heavy duty Cannondale semi recumbent - under construction.
Blue Dream: Maxaraya FS semi recumbent and high efficiency mid-drive - under construction.

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Re: Big update to the biker bar & order of the forums

Post by jonescg » Mar 23 2021 6:15am

I like the new structure.
Top work Nep :thumb:

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Re: Big update to the biker bar & order of the forums

Post by neptronix » Mar 24 2021 12:02pm

Gracias :)
"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them, humanity cannot survive." - Dalai Lama

My first major build: 1.6kW 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500 MTB.
Monster MTB: Leafmotor 1500w @ 4kW on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The monster scooter: Heavy duty Cannondale semi recumbent - under construction.
Blue Dream: Maxaraya FS semi recumbent and high efficiency mid-drive - under construction.

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Re: Big update to the biker bar & order of the forums

Post by neptronix » Mar 24 2021 2:01pm

I'm proposing another layout to Justin.. but i'd like to hear your feedback.
2021-03-24 12_03_19-Presentation2.pptx - Microsoft PowerPoint.png
A lot of thread moving will need to be done. EBike technical will become an archive and it's contents slowly drizzled out into other categories since it's contents are too large and scattered to immediately recategorize.

Xenforo allows us to quickly identify and recategorize things. So it's possible to expand like this fairly easily.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them, humanity cannot survive." - Dalai Lama

My first major build: 1.6kW 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500 MTB.
Monster MTB: Leafmotor 1500w @ 4kW on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The monster scooter: Heavy duty Cannondale semi recumbent - under construction.
Blue Dream: Maxaraya FS semi recumbent and high efficiency mid-drive - under construction.

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Re: Big update to the biker bar & order of the forums

Post by amberwolf » Mar 24 2021 3:47pm

I'd add a "troubleshooting" category for each vehicle type, not just ebikes. That way all the "broken stuff" threads can be moved to those, to separate them from the ideas and technology and build threads.

Each "build" section could be used for that instead, but then the question will be asked by some of "why not do that for ebikes, too?". ;)

It would make it easier to find people to help, for those that like to do so, and easier for those looking for help with such problems to get it since their threads wont' be buried in forums where people are developing or building things instead.


It might also be a good idea to have specific "battery troubleshooting" and "battery builds" subforums (in the battery section), because it would make it easier for information to be found by those looking for it. (will take a while for us to move existing such threads there, but worth the effort once done). As things are now, it's tough even for *me* to find specific info on these things to point others to when they need help with them. Mostly I can only say "well, somewhere in the battery section there's info on the stuff you want to know." which isn't really that helpful.

At some point it might also be useful to have a BMS Technology subforum for batteries, as there is a lot of info about them but it's difficult to find (especially since the forum search either doesn't or can't search on most short terms, or numerics, etc., giving either a bajillion useless results or no results at all, depending on the needed terms, and even if it did search properly, a noob, or even most people, aren't going to know what kind of things to look for).



I'd still vote for not migrating OTD at all, and simply forbidding the kind of crap that has to be moved there (and immediately dealing with the problem people that cause it when they start it). ;) There are plenty of places on the web that those people can go to have those discussions, and they don't belong on this forum. Just my opinion, but I am certain that I'm not the only one that feels this way. (and I'm also certain that good people with useful skills and information have left the forum because of this kind of crap).

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Re: Big update to the biker bar & order of the forums

Post by amberwolf » Mar 28 2021 9:46pm

Another suggestion is to add a locked (no replies or edits allowed) "Sold or Unresponsive" archival subforum to each of the Items For Sale sections. Moderators can move threads there (rather than deleting them because there is often useful information in them) to help keep the actual sale sections relatively clear to make it easier for both buyers and sellers. :)

The reason for including "unresponsive" in the subforum is for sellers that haven't responded to people posting in the thread, or haven't logged back in since posting for some amount of time (a month?) for those that only came here to drop an ad, etc. It will help potential buyers see that these are "old" or "unmonitored" ads so they dont' waste their time on them, but leave the info there so people can see what those sellers are like, or when the posts happen to include information useful to others (like specs or pics for something, etc).

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Re: Big update to the biker bar & order of the forums

Post by LeftieBiker » Mar 28 2021 11:20pm

Can someone recommend a site that has forums for Pre-built e-bikes, and isn't moribund? I find it somewhat interesting to read the builds here, but that isn't my primary interest. Now that it's clear that this site isn't interested in people who ride pre-built bikes (despite an initial response to the suggestion that indicated the opposite), I'd like to find a good one that is.

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Re: Big update to the biker bar & order of the forums

Post by Dauntless » Mar 28 2021 11:32pm

viewtopic.php?t=65776
LeftieBiker wrote:
Mar 28 2021 11:20pm
Now that it's clear that this site isn't interested in people who ride pre-built bikes (despite an initial response to the suggestion that indicated the opposite), I'd like to find a good one that is.
Well darn, not sure what's missing for you. Is that thread closer?

If you want to modify or upgrade your prebuilt bike, that is what some of what you call "Builds" are. If you just want to talk about the stock bike you bought there's some interest but definitely not great enthusiasm unless it's outrageous to begin with.

I sure haven't seen a particularly interesting stock bike forum. This one even has a group 'DIY, Kits and Custom Builds' https://electricbikereview.com/forums/
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Re: Big update to the biker bar & order of the forums

Post by LeftieBiker » Mar 29 2021 2:57am

The EBR forum seems more or less what I want. Thanks. (Although the font and colors are amazingly BAD.) I'll probably spend more time reading there, and less here, now.

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Re: Big update to the biker bar & order of the forums

Post by markz » Mar 29 2021 4:36am

mtbr forum is sponsored by bicycle companies that sell ebikes and mtbr's moderators dont like diy'ers to save generating income from said bicycle companies and their ebikes for sale in local bicycle stores. Since their ebikes are all proprietary, you can't modify anything, only ditch their 250W or 500W electronics, save the motor and rig something up yourself in which you come to ES.

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Re: Big update to the biker bar & order of the forums

Post by neptronix » Mar 29 2021 10:11am

LeftieBiker wrote:
Mar 29 2021 2:57am
The EBR forum seems more or less what I want. Thanks. (Although the font and colors are amazingly BAD.) I'll probably spend more time reading there, and less here, now.
If it works better for you, great.

You should just know that EBR is ran by a guy with little to know real mechanical/electrical knowledge and does paid prebuilt electric bike reviews for a living essentially.
I had commented on his youtube channel when i watched it many years ago, pointing out that he was doing things like telling people a bike had a geared motor instead of a direct drive one.. basic factual mistakes like that. Dude would never listen to me. He's not interested in accurately informing people. How could he?

Prebuilt consumer products tend to have influencers, marketers, and sales people whitewashing and controlling information about these products at multiple angles.
Here at ES, we're focused on facts and figures. We would rather be a forum full of inventors and tinkerers than consumers. I'd like to have a prebuilt bike section... but am concerned that it will water down the punk rock aesthetic we have here.

I hope you find a forum that is ideal for you either ways.
"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them, humanity cannot survive." - Dalai Lama

My first major build: 1.6kW 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500 MTB.
Monster MTB: Leafmotor 1500w @ 4kW on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The monster scooter: Heavy duty Cannondale semi recumbent - under construction.
Blue Dream: Maxaraya FS semi recumbent and high efficiency mid-drive - under construction.

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Re: Big update to the biker bar & order of the forums

Post by neptronix » Mar 29 2021 10:41am

markz wrote:
Mar 29 2021 4:36am
mtbr forum is sponsored by bicycle companies that sell ebikes and mtbr's moderators dont like diy'ers to save generating income from said bicycle companies and their ebikes for sale in local bicycle stores. Since their ebikes are all proprietary, you can't modify anything, only ditch their 250W or 500W electronics, save the motor and rig something up yourself in which you come to ES.
I know the guy who ran bikeforums.net. He retired early in his 30's after selling it. There's a shit ton of money in selling out and letting marketers and salespeople determine what information people read under the guise of it being the community's opinion.
MTBR's bent is no surprise.

..yes, people do tend to come here after being lead astray by marketer/salespeople ran sites.. have you noticed.. :lol:
"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them, humanity cannot survive." - Dalai Lama

My first major build: 1.6kW 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500 MTB.
Monster MTB: Leafmotor 1500w @ 4kW on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The monster scooter: Heavy duty Cannondale semi recumbent - under construction.
Blue Dream: Maxaraya FS semi recumbent and high efficiency mid-drive - under construction.

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Re: Big update to the biker bar & order of the forums

Post by neptronix » Mar 29 2021 11:00am

amberwolf wrote:
Mar 24 2021 3:47pm
I'd add a "troubleshooting" category for each vehicle type, not just ebikes. That way all the "broken stuff" threads can be moved to those, to separate them from the ideas and technology and build threads.

Each "build" section could be used for that instead, but then the question will be asked by some of "why not do that for ebikes, too?". ;)
I would like to add that for consistency if these categories become more popular. In this plan, the list of subforums does get quite long already. I think we should be conservative about creating new categories if this plan is implemented.
amberwolf wrote:
Mar 24 2021 3:47pm
It might also be a good idea to have specific "battery troubleshooting" and "battery builds" subforums (in the battery section), because it would make it easier for information to be found by those looking for it. (will take a while for us to move existing such threads there, but worth the effort once done). As things are now, it's tough even for *me* to find specific info on these things to point others to when they need help with them. Mostly I can only say "well, somewhere in the battery section there's info on the stuff you want to know." which isn't really that helpful.

At some point it might also be useful to have a BMS Technology subforum for batteries, as there is a lot of info about them but it's difficult to find (especially since the forum search either doesn't or can't search on most short terms, or numerics, etc., giving either a bajillion useless results or no results at all, depending on the needed terms, and even if it did search properly, a noob, or even most people, aren't going to know what kind of things to look for).
I think that troubleshooting and building batteries is one of those things that's fairly universal to all electric vehicle categories.
Perhaps the 'electric technology' section in this idea could be a battery section with fairly extensive subcategories.
amberwolf wrote:
Mar 24 2021 3:47pm
I'd still vote for not migrating OTD at all, and simply forbidding the kind of crap that has to be moved there (and immediately dealing with the problem people that cause it when they start it). ;) There are plenty of places on the web that those people can go to have those discussions, and they don't belong on this forum. Just my opinion, but I am certain that I'm not the only one that feels this way. (and I'm also certain that good people with useful skills and information have left the forum because of this kind of crap).
That's a tough one. I'd rather reform it and create a graveyard section that is locked for posts that are violating forum rules. It would be an archive of 'what not to do'.

I would also like to nuke some of the political threads which have large amounts of political images uploaded to them. Endless sphere was not intended to host that kind of content.
"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them, humanity cannot survive." - Dalai Lama

My first major build: 1.6kW 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500 MTB.
Monster MTB: Leafmotor 1500w @ 4kW on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The monster scooter: Heavy duty Cannondale semi recumbent - under construction.
Blue Dream: Maxaraya FS semi recumbent and high efficiency mid-drive - under construction.

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Re: Big update to the biker bar & order of the forums

Post by LeftieBiker » Mar 29 2021 3:16pm

neptronix wrote:
Mar 29 2021 10:11am
LeftieBiker wrote:
Mar 29 2021 2:57am
The EBR forum seems more or less what I want. Thanks. (Although the font and colors are amazingly BAD.) I'll probably spend more time reading there, and less here, now.
If it works better for you, great.

You should just know that EBR is ran by a guy with little to know real mechanical/electrical knowledge and does paid prebuilt electric bike reviews for a living essentially.
I had commented on his youtube channel when i watched it many years ago, pointing out that he was doing things like telling people a bike had a geared motor instead of a direct drive one.. basic factual mistakes like that. Dude would never listen to me. He's not interested in accurately informing people. How could he?

Prebuilt consumer products tend to have influencers, marketers, and sales people whitewashing and controlling information about these products at multiple angles.
Here at ES, we're focused on facts and figures. We would rather be a forum full of inventors and tinkerers than consumers. I'd like to have a prebuilt bike section... but am concerned that it will water down the punk rock aesthetic we have here.

I hope you find a forum that is ideal for you either ways.
I'm familiar with the guy, and don't like him, but since I won't be reading the forum for what he says, it doesn't matter to me. It also isn't hard to spot "influencers" if you have experience with critical reading. I think that you're a bit too close to this forum to see it as others do. If pre-built bikes aren't "punk rock" enough for you to even include a forum for those who don't have the physical or technical resources to build their own, then I guess the folks looking for a mobility vehicle forum are also out of luck. We'll just look elsewhere, and stop in here more casually.

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Re: Big update to the biker bar & order of the forums

Post by neptronix » Mar 29 2021 3:27pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
Mar 29 2021 3:16pm
I'm familiar with the guy, and don't like him, but since I won't be reading the forum for what he says, it doesn't matter to me. It also isn't hard to spot "influencers" if you have experience with critical reading.
The thing is, most people lack critical thinking skills and marketing works on them. Just look at lunacycle and how big they grew with marketing alone ( and lying about a lot of specification s).
So someone interested in truth and engineering will be surrounded by the kind of people that flock to rosy pictures of products on a forum ran by a sales or marketing person.
LeftieBiker wrote:
Mar 29 2021 3:16pm
I think that you're a bit too close to this forum to see it as others do. If pre-built bikes aren't "punk rock" enough for you to even include a forum for those who don't have the physical or technical resources to build their own, then I guess the folks looking for a mobility vehicle forum are also out of luck. We'll just look elsewhere, and stop in here more casually.
I think if you had the experience of looking through older threads for hours while perusing the database, you'd realize that this was always more of an engineering/DIY forum until perhaps the last 5 years where nobody was working to preserve that ethos and hone our niche further in an increasingly crowded ebike space.

There's at least 5 different forums out there devoted to prebuilt bike discussion mainly. So why even compete. We should stick to what made ES and focus on the building and tinkering aspects even more... for the crowd who knows how to turn a wrench.

A mobility devices section is VERY likely to be part of our big plan. Building your own power wheelchair is about as punk rock as a disabled person can get. here is an example of what i mean:

https://www.wheelchairdriver.com/powerchair-stuff.htm
"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them, humanity cannot survive." - Dalai Lama

My first major build: 1.6kW 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500 MTB.
Monster MTB: Leafmotor 1500w @ 4kW on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The monster scooter: Heavy duty Cannondale semi recumbent - under construction.
Blue Dream: Maxaraya FS semi recumbent and high efficiency mid-drive - under construction.

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Re: Big update to the biker bar & order of the forums

Post by amberwolf » Mar 29 2021 4:47pm

There is actually a fair bit of discussion about prebuilt ebikes here, and it would be handy to be able to stick it in it's own subforum. Some I can think of without looking are the SurRon, Stealth Fighter and Bomber, Prodeco (though it's no longer made), Stromer, Frey, Motorino, etc. I could probably find a dozen others without trying too hard. ;)

THen there are all those that come here to fix their prebuilt ebikes and other stuff. Do we tell them to go away because they didn't build it themselves? No, we help them figure out what they can do, whether that is get OEM parts or do DIY fixes, etc.

How about those posting about their prebuilt large EVs, like Teslas or Nissan Leafs or Honda Insights, etc? There's not a lot, but there have been some--and some of those with them have been active helpers here on the forum over the years.

Used to be a lot of esk8 discussion, including prebuilt boards (sometimes about modding them) but something happened that I don't really understand fully and they all went elsewhere, so we lost a bunch of nifty DIYers to that.

Keep in mind that if people came here to discuss prebuilt stuff, they can also be "influenced" into more DIY, and you may find some serious DIYers, engineers, programmers, etc., in those riding prebuilt bikes that just haven't gotten into modding that bike yet (perhaps they haven't even thought of it yet). ;) Or they make enough money at their dayjobs they don't need to DIY something and can buy whatever they want.... But might be contributors here if they were already posting here for their prebuilt stuff.

Heck, if I had money for it, and someone actually made the bikes/trikes/etc that I need, I would just buy one rather than go thru the years of development to make one work for me. But I'd probably still be here helping out...unless I wasnt' really welcome to post about my prebuilt stuff, in which case I'd be someplace else, or just keeping my time and using it for more fun things than helping people that often don't seem to really want to be helped. ;)

I would guarantee that there are others like that here now, and plenty more out there that aren't yet, but could be.



So...I don't really get why we would want to alienate anyone that's into EVs...even if they didnt' build the one they have now.

At it's simplest, it could just be a single forum heading for "Pre Built / OEM EVs of all sizes and types". ;) Dividing it up into ebikes, escooters, esk8s, emotorcycles, large-EVs, and other-EVs might be helpful, but perhaps not required until there is enough traffic to worry about it (though I would do it to start with).


If we don't make a subforum for them, do we then remove all discussion about them that is already ongoing? Do we remove all the sellers for such things? Do we just lock all those threads? Do we just let it go on as it is now, just buried in the midst of all the other stuff? Do we draw the line at "i bought it but I want to modify it", or is anything prebuilt disallowed? Etc.

I ask this because the way LeftieBiker's question was answered makes it sound like anyone that rides prebuilt stuff isn't welcome here at all. That might not be the intent...but that's what I felt when I read it.

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Re: Big update to the biker bar & order of the forums

Post by amberwolf » Mar 29 2021 4:59pm

FWIW, prebuilt bikes and other EVs are MUCH MUCH MUCH more relevant to the forum that anything in OTD and 99% of the stuff in General discussion, etc.

If we don't want prebuilt bikes discussed we should DEFINITELY get rid of those sections. ;)

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Re: Big update to the biker bar & order of the forums

Post by neptronix » Mar 29 2021 5:03pm

It's just that i don't want to cater to them too much. Other sites do it better.
They're welcome on our forum as always ( we're not against them and never were; but this is a DIY forum mainly ).

But we have to be conservative with the new categories we create. Even the proposed plan is starting to get pretty long.
"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them, humanity cannot survive." - Dalai Lama

My first major build: 1.6kW 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500 MTB.
Monster MTB: Leafmotor 1500w @ 4kW on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The monster scooter: Heavy duty Cannondale semi recumbent - under construction.
Blue Dream: Maxaraya FS semi recumbent and high efficiency mid-drive - under construction.

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Re: Big update to the biker bar & order of the forums

Post by A-DamW » Mar 30 2021 3:13am

DIY is exactly what brought me here to this site in 2009, and has continued to be a fantastic source of information for me to this day.

But what I would like to address, is, the definition(scope?) of DIY, (for ES).

If I buy a new Sur Ron X Bike, and come to ES and start a thread that consists of: "Hey, I bought a new Sur Ron X Bike, cool, huh?",
I don't consider that to be very DIY, however, if I decide to swap out that noisy chain drive myself, for a belt drive, is that more DIY?

Now to look at the opposite angle, if I purchase a Cyclone 3000 kit to install on my 2007 Redline Monocog, and start a thread about it, I think that is closer to the definition of ES DIY...

But how far to take it...

I did not DIY mine the copper ore for the wire...
I did not DIY stamp electrical steel for the stator...
I did not DIY...

So, I think focusing on what DIY means(for ES) is key.

These are just my thoughts, I am not attached to them, they are offered as food for thought.

I am constantly reviewing/deciding what DIY means for me, I can't do everything, and I can't do nothing, so I DIY.

Adam

P.S.
If someone went out and mined the copper, drew it into wire, enameled it, wound it into a laminated electrical steel core of their own making, magnetized their own homemade magnets, machined their own bearings................. I would love to see it. ES needs a mission statement.

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Re: Big update to the biker bar & order of the forums

Post by neptronix » Mar 30 2021 10:13am

DIY brought me here after i tried several prebuilts and found them so lacking and expensive too.

I wouldn't worry about it that much.
On a 1-10 scale from 'I mined and refined my own copper' to 'My walmart bike is SO cool', this forum should be a 2-4.

IE we are DIY first.. no problem if you want to talk about your prebuilt.. but.. being a DIY forum, you're going to hear about how to make it a better ride.. and it is very likely going to rub off on you.. :)

If we ever had a prebuilt section, we should call it something like 'modifying prebuilt bikes' ;)
"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them, humanity cannot survive." - Dalai Lama

My first major build: 1.6kW 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500 MTB.
Monster MTB: Leafmotor 1500w @ 4kW on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The monster scooter: Heavy duty Cannondale semi recumbent - under construction.
Blue Dream: Maxaraya FS semi recumbent and high efficiency mid-drive - under construction.

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Re: Big update to the biker bar & order of the forums

Post by Dauntless » Mar 30 2021 5:57pm

neptronix wrote:
Mar 30 2021 10:13am
I wouldn't worry about it that much.
On a 1-10 scale from 'I mined and refined my own copper' to 'My walmart bike is SO cool', this forum should be a 2-4.
Well, not everyone can be as kewl as WalMart riders.
neptronix wrote:
Mar 30 2021 10:13am
IE we are DIY first.. no problem if you want to talk about your prebuilt.. but.. being a DIY forum, you're going to hear about how to make it a better ride.. and it is very likely going to rub off on you.. :)
But a lot of them get rubbed the wrong way when John talks about his 3 controller hub. . . .
Any sufficiently advanced technology is INDISTINGUISHABLE FROM MAGIC!
- Arthur C. Clarke

LeftieBiker   100 kW

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Re: Big update to the biker bar & order of the forums

Post by LeftieBiker » Mar 31 2021 1:18am

Thanks for those posts, Amberwolf. The fact is, if the folk(s) running the site don't want a pre-built forum, then there won't be one. What I don't get is why there was, first, an enthusiastic 'Yes, great idea' and then, a few weeks later...this. Oh well, as noted there are other forums out there. I learned on usenet 20+ years ago that life is too short for flame wars. One last thing, to be clear: if you look at my bike, and at the accessories topic, and at the EZIP Trailz topic before that, you can see that I don't ride a box stock pre-built, and don't do that in general. So within my physical limitations, I am part of the DIY scene. Not building bikes from scratch for whatever reason shouldn't disqualify anyone from being able to talk about them here, in a forum about what many of us ride.

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Chalo   100 GW

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Re: Big update to the biker bar & order of the forums

Post by Chalo » Mar 31 2021 1:41am

amberwolf wrote:
Mar 29 2021 4:47pm
There is actually a fair bit of discussion about prebuilt ebikes here, and it would be handy to be able to stick it in it's own subforum. Some I can think of without looking are the SurRon, Stealth Fighter and Bomber, Prodeco (though it's no longer made), Stromer, Frey, Motorino, etc. I could probably find a dozen others without trying too hard. ;)
Rad. Sonders. Van Moof. Unimoke. Ancheer. These are a few of the others I've worked on in the bike shop. Of these, I'd only recommend Rad to someone I liked.
This is to express my gratitude to Justin of Grin Technologies for his extraordinary measures to save this forum for the benefit of all.

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