Ebike Conversions Breaking Forks

getting a new frame unless its front fork

and then installing torque arms like they are meant to
 
I meant: What are they doing when the forks fail? Is is natural attrition from gradual accumulated stress, or more often some incident of highly over stressed forks. I have the torque arm dynamics well thought out. I even have a really good plan for keeping axel nuts from gradually working loose, because of reverse and regenerative breaking.
 
What are they doing when the forks fail?
They buy new ones and pay more attention installing them.
Is is natural attrition from gradual accumulated stress, or more often some incident of highly over stressed forks.
What exactly is bending enough to weaken over time?
If installed correctly and kept within reasonable power levels, a frt. drive system will last as long as a rear mount, so please don't yell fire in the theater when it's not burning.
 
There is no way, physically speaking, to apply as much stress to a bike fork with a motor as you can with a front brake.

The fork tips are another matter. Use proper tight fitting closed eye torque arms, or clamping torque arms, and don't worry about it.
 
Shame that you didn't get the memo from the vendor that you needed them.

A front fork without torque arms can't hold much more than a few hundred watts for long.
You need torque arms on the rear too when getting into higher power levels.

Bicycles were not designed with this level of power in mind and reinforcing dropouts with torque plates/arms is necessary in most situations.
 
At a minimum you need one torque arms, better to have 2 otherwise it doesn't take much to spin the axle, about 40nm.

https://youtu.be/c96n0Ma2rLY?t=1138
 
When you say two torque arms, do you mean one on each side, or two on each side. Logic tells me you mean one on each side. Fear suggests two on each side. It bothers me that Leaf is selling me a hub kit and not mentioning the need for torque arms. I am really fortunate to have wandered into this site.
 
Its basic information and they do not have time to lay out simple, basic info to every customer if you do not ask a question related to it.
They are not mind readers.


EarlB said:
When you say two torque arms, do you mean one on each side, or two on each side. Logic tells me you mean one on each side. Fear suggests two on each side. It bothers me that Leaf is selling me a hub kit and not mentioning the need for torque arms. I am really fortunate to have wandered into this site.
 
markz said:
[The need for torque arms is] basic information and they do not have time to lay out simple, basic info to every customer if you do not ask a question related to it.

Plus there's an opportunity to sell another motor to anyone who decides they don't need a torque arm.
 
Chalo said:
markz said:
[The need for torque arms is] basic information and they do not have time to lay out simple, basic info to every customer if you do not ask a question related to it.

Plus there's an opportunity to sell another motor to anyone who decides they don't need a torque arm.

If they live.
 
markz said:
Its basic information and they do not have time to lay out simple, basic info to every customer if you do not ask a question related to it.
They are not mind readers.


EarlB said:
When you say two torque arms, do you mean one on each side, or two on each side. Logic tells me you mean one on each side. Fear suggests two on each side. It bothers me that Leaf is selling me a hub kit and not mentioning the need for torque arms. I am really fortunate to have wandered into this site.

For you and me maybe... Maybe not so much for the newb taking it on faith that the vendor is looking after them when they buy a kit.
 
TDB said:
markz said:
Its basic information and they do not have time to lay out simple, basic info to every customer if you do not ask a question related to it.
They are not mind readers.


EarlB said:
When you say two torque arms, do you mean one on each side, or two on each side. Logic tells me you mean one on each side. Fear suggests two on each side. It bothers me that Leaf is selling me a hub kit and not mentioning the need for torque arms. I am really fortunate to have wandered into this site.

For you and me maybe... Maybe not so much for the newb taking it on faith that the vendor is looking after them when they buy a kit.

I'm still willing to add any newb tips received to this thread, and perhaps eventually can be converted to a newb FAQ. Right now I just edit the main/first post as I see the newb questions answered:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=111571&p=1653655#p1653227
 
Despite best intentions it is also a big assumption that a newb is going to find and spend many hours absorbing information on this site or any like it..
 
TDB said:
Despite best intentions it is also a big assumption that a newb is going to find and spend many hours absorbing information on this site or any like it..

Ya, but for the mods, it might be nice for them to be able to point to where newbs can get the basic info rather than re-explaining things each time.
For myself, I know I'm not good at hand holding or coddling (raised daughters, and I'm sure they'd agree :shock: ); engineering/science/fact based responses are less personal, while newbies tend to be more comfortable with someone with a better bedside manner. FAQs can be fact based and provide information, leaving the touchy feely stuff aside. :thumb:
 
Vendors could also get it together and sell kits with all of the required parts or at least put them on the highly recommended list of extras to buy.
 
TDB said:
Vendors could also get it together and sell kits with all of the required parts or at least put them on the highly recommended list of extras to buy.

In an alternate universe maybe.

Grin is the only vendor that has all the parts, manuals, information, tools and videos, etc., all together in one place, as long as you are going the hub motor route. Nobody else comes close. Even with all of that, a lot of newbs don't want to do all of that reading or even taking the time to watch the informative videos. Too much information, maybe. Plus, Grin only carries quality stuff, and most people are looking for some kind of unrealistically cheap deal, even though in the end, you get what you pay for.
 
TDB said:
That doesn't make them any less responsible.

So advise newbies to wait for something that doesn't exist today? I guess that would work, actually maybe pretty well. Plenty of time to read and learn between now and then. And lithium battery costs are dropping fast due to all of the utility scale stuff, so even the most costly part of the kit may go down by then too. Ebike Utopia.
 
There is a learning curve, and a mechanical skill level that is pretty minimal along with tools is minimal and thats why people buy complete ebikes from their local bicycle store, or cheap out on ebay/amazon/alibaba/aliexpress.
 
markz said:
There is a learning curve, and a mechanical skill level that is pretty minimal along with tools is minimal and thats why people buy complete ebikes from their local bicycle store, or cheap out on ebay/amazon/alibaba/aliexpress.

Some people are OK with taking a longer route, and others want to get to the destination, even if they really don't know where they want to go. The first ebike should be the first ebike, not the last. The cost of the first ebike is the tuition. Building it and owning it is the education. By the time you build the second one, you'll know your destination, and know what you'll need to get there.
 
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