Thanks for that information.
How to charge bike battery to only 80% ?
- Thread starter PeteCress
- Start date
High voltage is what ages cells, and percentage of voltage is used in the literature. Actual voltage limit as implemented by OEM is just an abstraction/application of percentage of voltage.john61ct said:
Percentage of voltage is perfectly fine, if not ideal to use, since it allows estimating cell cycle life using published data.
No, because mAh does not age cells as much as high voltage. You are conflating capacity at voltage with aging at voltage -- not necessary.john61ct said:
As you indicate, capacity vs cell cycle life vs weight is up to the individual to balance, so rigid conservative guidelines like these only apply to you.john61ct said:
eMark
100 kW
Have found 3.65v after an hour rest more common than uncommon before again charging to 4.05v (85%). However, whether bounce back voltage is say 3.65v or 3.56v depends on the degree of load (raw performance vs cruising) when LVC was say at 3.40v ... when i'm sedately cruising the LVC bounce back voltage would be closer to 3.56v than 3.65v after both me and the battery rested for one hourjohn61ct said:
Couldn't you say the same for docware's rigid cell tests? When talking about "capacity vs cell cycle life" isn't it OK to be as rigid as possible (minimize variables) when testing one cell vs say a LUNA 14s Shark pack (or 10s3p) with considerably more variables compared to the rigid demands required when comparative bench testing of one particular 18650 cell against another 18650 cell with each one having its own unique properties.fatty said:
Docware's cell characterization tests are unrelated to john's blanket "3.65-4.10V" directive. It's not bad advice, but it's even more arbitrary than "only charge at 0.5C and discharge at 1C" is. It all depends on individual application.eMark said:
Degradation is influenced as least as much by calendar time at high (90%) SOC and charge/discharge C-rate.
Trying to get every scrap of Ah capacity utilization means pushing closer to the mfg spec min/max voltages at both ends
greatly reducing longevity, possibly in a low C-rate context can mean getting 120 cycles rather than 1200 cycles before hitting EoL say 70% SoH.
But getting that 1200 may be sacrificing too much capacity for some, so maybe 400 or 800 is more appropriate.
Up to you, but don't just accept someone's over generalisation about what the right numbers are.
Any specific voltage (or other) numbers **I** give are simply working examples for illustration.
Each owner decides their own setpoints based on their use case, and measurements that vary from one rig to the next.
Having more knowledge about how to do so, helps define their priorities and preferences.
greatly reducing longevity, possibly in a low C-rate context can mean getting 120 cycles rather than 1200 cycles before hitting EoL say 70% SoH.
But getting that 1200 may be sacrificing too much capacity for some, so maybe 400 or 800 is more appropriate.
Up to you, but don't just accept someone's over generalisation about what the right numbers are.
Any specific voltage (or other) numbers **I** give are simply working examples for illustration.
Each owner decides their own setpoints based on their use case, and measurements that vary from one rig to the next.
Having more knowledge about how to do so, helps define their priorities and preferences.
ZeroEm
1 MW
I watched my brother charge his batteries full and discharged them till they cut off, sometimes twice a day. Did not count but it was more like 300 cycles or around 6-7 months before the battery would give out. Watched him go thru 2 batteries. They were cheap but still around $600 for around a year's use.
I dream of my batteries lasting 6-10 yrs. 2 years behind me. Will keep everyone in formed.
I dream of my batteries lasting 6-10 yrs. 2 years behind me. Will keep everyone in formed.
eMark
100 kW
IMO - that practice is partially a carryover from the RC Li-Po herd mentality. A prime example being Top Gun pylon racing pilots with their expensive carbon fiber planes like the Knife Racer Glass (100-150mph / $250), with its lighter weight Li-Po battery recipe of pure LiCoO4 instead of the mixture of LiCoO4 and LiMn2O4.ZeroEm said:
A LiCoO4 3700mAh 6s 22.2v 45C battery is $66 ... so it doesn't hurt quite as much to abuse and replace it as it does to abuse and replace an expensive Li-ion e-bike/e-trike battery.
Eventually, your brother should slow down as he ages. Maybe, not as much as you and i (15 to 20 mph), but the day should come (if it hasn't already) when he will welcome the more TLC challenge of cycle life longevity (3-5 years).
Enjoyed reading your other thread posts. Please do keep us informed :thumb:ZeroEm said:
Do not buy into vendor marketing about their "unique" chemistry formulation, 99% is BS and most get their slurry from the same dodgy suppliers.
Build quality and tight QA processes is what really makes the difference between pack value. And unfortunately nearly all sub prime makers lack consistency from one production run to the next.
Going on about LiCoO2 vs LiCoO4 for LCO, or LiMn2O4 vs Li2MnO3 on the LMO manganese side
And bringing up the RC LiPo world
is just masturbatory posing, irrelevant in the context of this thread.
The charge/discharge voltage profiles' impact on longevity has **very little** to do with the specific chemistry variant, or electrolyte / packaging
All the LI types quoted as 3.6 - 3.7V have the same care / voltage parameters,
balancing extended lifespan vs pushing (a little) more capacity utilization.
Build quality and tight QA processes is what really makes the difference between pack value. And unfortunately nearly all sub prime makers lack consistency from one production run to the next.
Going on about LiCoO2 vs LiCoO4 for LCO, or LiMn2O4 vs Li2MnO3 on the LMO manganese side
And bringing up the RC LiPo world
is just masturbatory posing, irrelevant in the context of this thread.
The charge/discharge voltage profiles' impact on longevity has **very little** to do with the specific chemistry variant, or electrolyte / packaging
All the LI types quoted as 3.6 - 3.7V have the same care / voltage parameters,
balancing extended lifespan vs pushing (a little) more capacity utilization.
eMark
100 kW
ZeroEm ignore ... "I Say, I SAY, I Say" ... and the foghorn rhetoric. He still can't make up his mind whether Samsung 30Q is "junk" as he once posted this year ... OR ... OK "for 99% of prospective [30Q] buyers".
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