Using EV Chargers

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methods   100 GW

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Re: Using EV Chargers

Post by methods » Jan 12 2020 2:13pm

Current Standards:

I promote JSON over XML
I promote BLE over WiFi (for future security reasons)
I promote Modular Approach that stacks over custom PCB's (Adafruit is leading the pack for innovation, cost, and support)
I promote an aging workforce over an all-greenhorn team (seen it fail too many times, respect your elders)
I promote high voltage over high current (obviously)
I promote no-tax energy transactions (as the desire to tax transfer is the biggest blocker to EV infrastructure)
I promote Honesty over War and Fighting and Religion
I promote Android over Apple because of their inclusive and open source ethos
I promote Arduino over all embedded, because it is the clear winner
I promote Graphical Programming languages like LabView and MIT App Inventor (because it enforces 3rd Party Check)
I promote nobody because they pay me to. . . and that is why my opinion is actually worth something

I use 3rd party Cell providers because they let me run on whatever towers I want or need for my area
I use Cable Internet over DSL because it is faster
I use Honda Generators because they are at least 2X better than the competition
I use Hybrid Cars because I often drive 3+ hours in a day

I treat life like a Johnny Apple Seed opportunity. . . planting seeds and planting seeds and planting seeds. . . every where I go. And, so that we are clear, I am not talking about planting human seeds - I am talking about seeding ideas. Keep sex out of the workplace, stick to one partner, make sure the partner you pick values children over all other things.

I promote robotizing the workforce
I do not promote Union, until they are ready to grapple with reality, we are robotizing the workforce... so please get with it.

Note:
I am an Engineer and I am out here all on my own. There is no "Corporate Daddy" sheltering me from rain, there is no Union assuring I get a fair wage... I work for what I have to work for to pay the bills. I have worked for $3.75/hr and I have worked for $137.50/hr. Engineers do what they have to do and we are looking out for you in the long run.

We are heading to Outer Space
Please get your shit together

-methods
Increasing battery voltage and controller current limit will result in a non linear experience

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methods   100 GW

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Re: Using EV Chargers

Post by methods » Mar 16 2020 8:13am

Here is a very useful link:

CCS (Combine Charging System) Design Guide:
http://tesla.o.auroraobjects.eu/Design_ ... V3_1_1.pdf
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Backup of that on my servers
http://www.schindlerengineering.com/CCS ... V3_1_1.pdf

If anyone has a PDF of the ISO 15118 I would appreciate a copy of it.
I will post it or keep it secret, whatever you prefer.

. . .

Lately I have been doing a lot of hard core, low level, AT commands for communicating over 2G/3G/4G modules.
AT.png
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This has brought me back around to the requirements for this project.
HTTPS.png
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HTTPS is really super simple.

0) Get some hardware (covered previously)
1) Acquire HTTPS protocol stack
2) Open HTTPS session
3) Send HTTPS request
4) Receive HTTPS response

. . . Have a look at the PDF linked. That is a very high level and very informative document. That is where you want to start. . . short of having an example.

If anyone has some Github - eh. . . anything at all that will compile. . . you will save me QUITE a bit of time.
(hint hint)

-methods
Increasing battery voltage and controller current limit will result in a non linear experience

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Re: Using EV Chargers

Post by methods » Mar 16 2020 8:31am

I previously turned down work in this area.
TWICE :confused:
Even when I was out of work.

There were 3 reasons for that

1) I was rusty with the HTTPS Stack, but I just got done doing a bunch of this for building a 3G IoT solution straight to AWS.
2) A cooling off period was required, as I had just left a competitor company, and I had access to sensitive information.
3) Although I left with no IP, the appearance of as much, would be no good for my career.

I often work as a Test Engineer or in the Validation of products, so of course I have access to all of the undulating guts and internals. That said, I also spent 10 years working for the Department of Energy. . . so If I say I did not open the repository, then I did not open the repository.

Matters not. . as every code (especially my own) carries with it a signature. Anyone trying to bootleg code is quickly identified. Even more important. .. any code that you do not truly understand is of little to no value. I roll my own every time.

I may start with examples (like Adafruit or GitHub) but I always end up rolling my own thru the Validation phase.

...

Anyway
Cooling off period has expired.
Willing to work in EVSE
Most interested in getting my own stack up and running. . . so. . . not interested in working with any Patent Trolls.

I have my own hardware and my own skills.
Looking for a cut-off CCS1 or CCS2 mated pair** -> Those are expensive bastards!

-methods
Increasing battery voltage and controller current limit will result in a non linear experience

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Re: Using EV Chargers

Post by methods » Nov 13 2020 11:36pm

Slammed working startups. . . but on the topic of hacking DC Fast Charges:
IMG_20201003_082406_compress91.jpg
IMG_20201003_082406_compress91.jpg (525.33 KiB) Viewed 2615 times
I bought a Solar Powered Well pump (good one). It does Power Line Communication. The topic of PLC is something worth hacking thru. It needs to get to "Arduino Shield with Starter Code" level if we are going to get mass traction.

... Anyhow
This particular pump works of of DC or AC. Pushes like 400' of head and so far I have tested it to fairly good success. If I can find time to breath I will use the hacking of that device to show how you:

* physically attach
* bring up basic comms
* decode and decipher

Easiest way is to have both ends of the conversation. . . so. . .

* Buy the company supplied communication box
* Tap in "Man in the Middle"
* Fiddle bits until intelligible data appears
* Then return the control box (if you are that cheesy/broke)

Get that working. . . and along with a few open source stacks, you can be running DC Fast charge in no time. Car side is stupid easy. Charger side is reasonably easy for a single target.

-methods
Increasing battery voltage and controller current limit will result in a non linear experience

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Monte   10 mW

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Re: Using EV Chargers

Post by Monte » Jul 29 2021 12:32pm

Hope charger manufacturers realize the potential market for LEV's and include that little bit of extra conversion to go down to 40ish volts in the future!

Loving that most CHAdeMO chargers do go down to 50V though! Sadly it seems that they're getting rid of it in newer models to save money though...

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Re: Using EV Chargers

Post by ZeroEm » Jul 29 2021 7:17pm

I think what is happening is they/them decided to make battery packs bigger so no need of lightning :bolt: fast charging. Just charge over night.
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Re: Using EV Chargers

Post by Monte » Jul 30 2021 12:07pm

ZeroEm wrote:
Jul 29 2021 7:17pm
I think what is happening is they/them decided to make battery packs bigger so no need of lightning :bolt: fast charging. Just charge over night.
Are you talking about cars or e-bikes? Either way there isn't a car, motorbike or e-bike on the market that can manage a full 18-hour day on it's battery without charging. I'd say DC Fast Charging is the future and I've love to see more DIY implementations on e-bikes!

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Re: Using EV Chargers

Post by ZeroEm » Jul 30 2021 8:09pm

Monte » Jul 30 2021 12:07pm
ZeroEm wrote: ↑Jul 29 2021 7:17pm
I think what is happening is they/them decided to make battery packs bigger so no need of lightning :bolt: fast charging. Just charge over night.
Are you talking about cars or e-bikes? Either way there isn't a car, motorbike or e-bike on the market that can manage a full 18-hour day on it's battery without charging. I'd say DC Fast Charging is the future and I've love to see more DIY implementations on e-bikes!
This is known but going to say it! DC fast charging relies on the station to provide the DC current and this is expensive. This is why we don't have any at home. This other charging standards provide AC current to the DC chargers in the EV.

I'm talking about charging standards, but your right i'm thinking high DC voltages like Cars not as much E-bikes below 96V.

I do not know the voltage range of DC fast chargers. My car is around 400V but my trike is 74V.

Correct me if i'm wrong.
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Re: Using EV Chargers

Post by Monte » Jul 31 2021 4:08am

ZeroEm wrote:
Jul 30 2021 8:09pm

This is known but going to say it! DC fast charging relies on the station to provide the DC current and this is expensive. This is why we don't have any at home. This other charging standards provide AC current to the DC chargers in the EV.
I agree that there is no point in charging at high speeds at home. Home is where you have all the time in the world to wait for a battery to charge and a 1/8 C overnight charge rate is fine.

DC charging is specifically good for "filling up on the go" when wanting to cover a lot of distance in a day. Obviously this is more expensive than using the typical couple-amp charger from a wall socket at home, but definitely not expensive enough to not be worth it. For me, the cost has been approximately 0,03 €/km when buying electricity through a fast charging station.
ZeroEm wrote:
Jul 30 2021 8:09pm

I'm talking about charging standards, but your right i'm thinking high DC voltages like Cars not as much E-bikes below 96V.

I do not know the voltage range of DC fast chargers. My car is around 400V but my trike is 74V.

Correct me if i'm wrong.
There's two main charging standards currently in use. CCS2 and CHAdeMO. The CCS2 standard starts at 200 V and CHAdeMO at 50 V. This makes CHAdeMO much more useful for LEV use. However, some charger manufacturers don't adhere to this and only support upwards of 150 or 200V. Seems to be about 70% of chargers here in Finland with CHAdeMO support from 50V.

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Re: Using EV Chargers

Post by john61ct » Jul 31 2021 6:10am

CHAdeMO is on the losing side of the standards war, even in the US.

And I don't know of any networks that allow bikes or even DIY car rigs to connect

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Re: Using EV Chargers

Post by Monte » Jul 31 2021 6:50am

john61ct wrote:
Jul 31 2021 6:10am
CHAdeMO is on the losing side of the standards war, even in the US.
Sadly seems to be, but hopefully it will still be included in new charger installations for some time!

Hope a more standardized plug and protocol are implemented in the meantime...
john61ct wrote:
Jul 31 2021 6:10am
And I don't know of any networks that allow bikes or even DIY car rigs to connect
Who's stopping bikes or DIY cars from connecting? Is this a rule that electricity providers have put in place and why?
CHAdeMO.PNG
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Works fine for me. 7,3 kW charge power at 60 V , 121 A. SOC values are BS, I haven't bothered with them.

I've only run into the voltage problem on some chargers. Otherwise it works fine.

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Re: Using EV Chargers

Post by john61ct » Jul 31 2021 7:53am

In jurisdictions where charging stations are considered a public utility

and regulated in the public interest

they may well allow them to be used for DIY bikes

But in the US where

torts liability is often the biggest factor in any business model,

the regulatory bodies are captured by corporate interests, and

most station networks - even if subsidised - will be privately owned for profit,

cameras and AI, if not explicit charge-target identity verification

will allow the energy provider to dictate what it's used for.

So, charging bikes or even camper House banks may well be de facto possible now in the industry's infancy

but will need to explicitly be allowed farther on down the road,

and for the ever-more dystopian future I see coming here in the US,

the public interest having become the last consideration,

saying I am skeptical would be a huge understatement

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Re: Using EV Chargers

Post by ZeroEm » Jul 31 2021 10:54am

I put a charge station in front of my house 240V, 50A, SAE J1772. My car charges at the 6.6 kw, which is twice as fast as the 3.3 kw. 30 min to 1hr is all I need to go most places. only charge it couple times a week at most.

The CHAdeMO would be the better. The charger is in the station not the EV. Like for a e-bike/trike you would not need to carry a charger but the connection would be huge and the electronics to control it.

Methods had me interested in putting a SAE J1772 connection on my trike. The communications needs to be setup right. Guess it could be something you could bring on long trips with the extra battery or batteries.

There is not very many charge stations around here, mostly on the interstates, which I would not take my trike.
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Re: Using EV Chargers

Post by Monte » Jul 31 2021 12:25pm

ZeroEm wrote:
Jul 31 2021 10:54am
The CHAdeMO would be the better. The charger is in the station not the EV. Like for a e-bike/trike you would not need to carry a charger but the connection would be huge and the electronics to control it.
This was exactly the same as my thinking. To carry a 8 kW+ charger with is a lot more weight than to carry a CHAdeMO vehicle side socket, two contactors, an arduino and a few other little bits of electronics.
ZeroEm wrote:
Jul 31 2021 10:54am
There is not very many charge stations around here, mostly on the interstates, which I would not take my trike.
Luckily they seem to be more abundant here in Europe.

Here's my full day test ride. 18 hours and six < 20 min charging stops. 450km!
CHAdeMO full day test.PNG
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Re: Using EV Chargers

Post by ZeroEm » Jul 31 2021 4:37pm

by Monte » Jul 31 2021 12:25pm

ZeroEm wrote: ↑Jul 31 2021 10:54am
The CHAdeMO would be the better. The charger is in the station not the EV. Like for a e-bike/trike you would not need to carry a charger but the connection would be huge and the electronics to control it.
This was exactly the same as my thinking. To carry a 8 kW+ charger with is a lot more weight than to carry a CHAdeMO vehicle side socket, two contactors, an arduino and a few other little bits of electronics.
ZeroEm wrote: ↑Jul 31 2021 10:54am
There is not very many charge stations around here, mostly on the interstates, which I would not take my trike.
Luckily they seem to be more abundant here in Europe.

Here's my full day test ride. 18 hours and six < 20 min charging stops. 450km!
You have my full attention. You have a trailer setup for this. This would really change things for me. So many questions now. Don't think my current batteries would lend to fast charging. I can only ride so long around4 hrs but at 46 kph. Around here just to hook up to charge in town they want $5 US. I'm sure it is different in sounding towns/stops. Will start thinking about a trailer with both hook ups and large battery for tours out of town.
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Re: Using EV Chargers

Post by john61ct » Aug 01 2021 12:20am


Monte wrote:Here's my full day test ride. 18 hours and six < 20 min charging stops. 450km!
CHAdeMO full day test.PNG
Are you accepting applications for sponsoring refugees from the US? My kids are on the verge of becoming responsible productive citizens. . .


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Re: Using EV Chargers

Post by Monte » Aug 01 2021 3:03am

ZeroEm wrote:
Jul 31 2021 4:37pm
You have my full attention. You have a trailer setup for this. This would really change things for me. So many questions now. Don't think my current batteries would lend to fast charging. I can only ride so long around4 hrs but at 46 kph. Around here just to hook up to charge in town they want $5 US. I'm sure it is different in sounding towns/stops. Will start thinking about a trailer with both hook ups and large battery for tours out of town.
LTO pack.PNG
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Trailer.PNG
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26S1P 40 Ah LTO. These are a bit overkill for 3 C charging. They weren't even fazed about charging at 125 A, cell temperature rise 14 degrees C after a charge from 0% SOC. I had been planning to charge at 240 A (6 C), but hadn't realized that CHAdeMO was capped at 125 A.

Next battery will be on the bike frame and use high-drain 21700's with air cooling and preheating. Should be able to charge at 3 C up to 80%+ SOC. Maybe a 17S8P of Molicel P42A's.

Here's what I used as reference for building CHAdeMO communication:

https://www.electricboxster.com/page-3

Charging sounds a bit more expensive over there. Here they're usually 0,18 €/min.
john61ct wrote:
Aug 01 2021 12:20am
Monte wrote:Here's my full day test ride. 18 hours and six < 20 min charging stops. 450km!
CHAdeMO full day test.PNG
Are you accepting applications for sponsoring refugees from the US? My kids are on the verge of becoming responsible productive citizens. . .
I'm actually in the process of moving to Aus myself :D Hope they don't mind me charging my bike at stations there! Luckily all the fast chargers in Aus seem to be Tritium RT50's which work fine down to 50 V.

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Re: Using EV Chargers

Post by ZeroEm » Aug 01 2021 8:52am

Was excited and we hijacked methods thread. Thanks for all the information.
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Re: Using EV Chargers

Post by Monte » Aug 01 2021 2:08pm

No problem! Methods seemed to have abandoned it anyway.

Hope someone else does this in the future as well!

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Re: Using EV Chargers

Post by ZeroEm » Aug 01 2021 8:57pm

I would like to see more input like this. I know most do not ride far enough and want to spend the money and time for this.

There are people that would like to get there hands on something you could mount on your e-bike and plug it in. I can think of a few at the moment. Warren and billvon come to mind.

Was looking up Fast chargers around my area, few and far apart. A J1772 socket and both of my 1.8K batteries and two faster chargers would get me a long way at 46 kph. Could ride until I needed rest.
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Re: Using EV Chargers

Post by markz » Aug 01 2021 11:24pm

Yea for sure, that ebike with bicycle trailer with batteries and using EV charging station for fast charging would be great, but at what cost and how far can ya go based on the size of your battery. Then the biggest of problems - securement of the trailer and its battery for when you want to go places like grocery shopping. Could camouflage it to a certain extent.

Thats why I'd go motorcycle but I wouldnt want to ride a motorcycle in the city, would love to ride a cruiser style motorcycle out in the country, a nice quiet electric home made Harley which can also tow a small trailer full of batteries now that would be great. Lots of blown Harleys out there, snatch one up for cheap, figure out motor, battery, controller and ev charging.

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Re: Using EV Chargers

Post by ZeroEm » Aug 02 2021 12:01am

I can not sit up right for very long, need my trike. Don't trust leaving my trike at any store trailer or no trailer. I ride for exercise and the view. Riding at bike speeds you can really take in the country side.

As you know distance is a matter of speed and peddle power. I should be able to get at least 100mi if I keep it around 15-20 mph, 80+ mi at 20-30 mph. I can strap my second battery on my rack and swap them to double my distance. The trailer is to keep some of the weight off my trike. It's over loaded with just me on it.
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