Ninja 250 "Clone" Made in China

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Dui, ni shuo de dui   10 kW

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Re: Ninja 250 "Clone" Made in China

Post by Dui, ni shuo de dui » Nov 02 2021 1:39am

Some more progress:
I stripped down the chassis entirely and gave everything a good thorough cleaning:
IMG_20211031_190720.jpg
IMG_20211031_190720.jpg (406.28 KiB) Viewed 306 times
Then I started working on relocating the foot pegs a bit higher so they won't keep on rubbing the floor while cornering:
IMG_20211102_002856.jpg
IMG_20211102_002856.jpg (311.74 KiB) Viewed 306 times
One is already welded in place, I just have to finish the second one.
I will also try to reinforce some areas, the frame wasn't very well made from the factory, they bended the tubes very poorly. I'll try to add a few braces here and there, but I need to find some steel to do that.

I also removed the stand from the frame, I'll make an other one on the swingarm out of carbon tube, same way I did on my other motorcycle.

Meanwhile, I'm working on designing a better enclosure for my ANT BMS. Her is how my first prototype turned out so far.
The inside:
IMG_20211030_200039.jpg
IMG_20211030_200039.jpg (301.47 KiB) Viewed 306 times
The outside:
IMG_20211102_003011.jpg
IMG_20211102_003011.jpg (261.85 KiB) Viewed 306 times
I had some fun and tried to put a logo on it, I think it looks cool. I'll probably make the logo a little bit smaller on the final version.

This thing has been 3D printed, the final version will be 3D printed as well, but I'll add some layers of primer and paint in order to protect it from the sun and make it look better.

I'm also gonna print new brackets for the battery box. These ones were only supposed to be a temporary test, but they worked so well I didn't bother replacing them. Hence the weird blue color, That was the only filament I had left at the time.
I've already printed new ones, in black color this time.
As you can see, one of the bracket took a serious hit. Despite that it was still holding the battery box just fine.
IMG_20211031_192216.jpg
IMG_20211031_192216.jpg (365.55 KiB) Viewed 306 times
It's also a good opportunity to rebuild the front shock absorbers, I ordered new seals and cleaned everything:
IMG_20211031_191941.jpg
IMG_20211031_191941.jpg (340.43 KiB) Viewed 306 times
Last but not least, I received my new brake pumps and brake lines:
IMG_20211029_231756.jpg
IMG_20211029_231756.jpg (301.51 KiB) Viewed 306 times
IMG_20211030_174053.jpg
IMG_20211030_174053.jpg (318.56 KiB) Viewed 306 times
IMG_20211030_200601.jpg
IMG_20211030_200601.jpg (272.16 KiB) Viewed 306 times
Also, my battery is getting repaired, in total the supplier will replace 6 cells, I should get it back this week.
It was super fast and cost me something like 30 bucks. China's great for that kind of things, I can't imagine how long and how expensive that would have been to do the same thing in France.
:bolt: New Build in Progress: Electric Roadster, 30 000W Kelly KLS72701, 24S2P A123 cells :bolt:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=109246

:bolt: My electric Ninja 250 clone: 16 000W Sabvoton 72200, 23S2P A123 cells : :bolt:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=90032

:bolt: My electric Scooter: 11 000W Sabvoton 72150, 72V 50Ah LiFePO4 cells: :bolt:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=75912

j bjork   100 kW

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Re: Ninja 250 "Clone" Made in China

Post by j bjork » Nov 02 2021 3:02am

It looks like you are really trying to fry that poor little motor now :wink:
Is there a specific reason why you got an ATP instead of a far driver for example?

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Dui, ni shuo de dui   10 kW

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Re: Ninja 250 "Clone" Made in China

Post by Dui, ni shuo de dui » Nov 02 2021 4:13am

j bjork wrote:
Nov 02 2021 3:02am
It looks like you are really trying to fry that poor little motor now :wink:
Is there a specific reason why you got an ATP instead of a far driver for example?
Haha, yeah. I hope this motor will be able to take it. It was happily running at 510 amps per phase, but 900 amps might be a bit too much. :lol:

Only reason I'm going for it is that a friend left this APT controller at my place when he moved out, so I thought I'd try it instead of having it collecting dust on a shelf.
The FarDrivrers are super nice, but I don't have much money so I can't spend thousands on a controller. If I had the money I'd surely buy one though, they are awesome. :wink:
:bolt: New Build in Progress: Electric Roadster, 30 000W Kelly KLS72701, 24S2P A123 cells :bolt:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=109246

:bolt: My electric Ninja 250 clone: 16 000W Sabvoton 72200, 23S2P A123 cells : :bolt:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=90032

:bolt: My electric Scooter: 11 000W Sabvoton 72150, 72V 50Ah LiFePO4 cells: :bolt:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=75912

SlowCo   1 MW

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Re: Ninja 250 "Clone" Made in China

Post by SlowCo » Nov 02 2021 5:38am

Very nice work again. Always nice to see your builds evolve. Thanks for posting about all your projects :thumb:

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Dui, ni shuo de dui   10 kW

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Re: Ninja 250 "Clone" Made in China

Post by Dui, ni shuo de dui » Nov 08 2021 1:45am

Thanks for the kind words and support guys, much appreciated!

This weekend I tried to keep working on the frame. I haven't had the opportunity to work on the frame since I got it, so now was the perfect time to do so.
The frame was very poorly done from the factory. Not only the welds are horrific, but also the way the tubes were bent horribly wrong by someone who clearly didn't pay much attention to basic structural integrity. This has been bothering me for years (basically anytime I was hitting a pothole), but I couldn't work on this until now because the bike was my daily.

So here is how it looks like from the factory:
IMG_20211107_170231.jpg
IMG_20211107_170231.jpg (336.85 KiB) Viewed 259 times
I decided to make some gussets using some steel rectangular tubing I had around in the shop:
IMG_20211107_170258.jpg
IMG_20211107_170258.jpg (345.9 KiB) Viewed 259 times
Did the same for the top and bottom of the frame. But I couldn't weld the ones on the bottom since I was out of welding gas, I'll need to refill this week
Anyway, right now it looks like that:
IMG_20211107_201834.jpg
IMG_20211107_201834.jpg (318.33 KiB) Viewed 259 times
Everything still fits in the frame, so that's great!
IMG_20211107_230525.jpg
IMG_20211107_230525.jpg (316.04 KiB) Viewed 259 times
IMG_20211107_235852.jpg
IMG_20211107_235852.jpg (265.22 KiB) Viewed 259 times
The next step will be to weld the bottom gussets, then I'll start working on the stand. After that it will be time to prep the frame for painting.
I already received my battery, it's fixed, no problem anymore :)
:bolt: New Build in Progress: Electric Roadster, 30 000W Kelly KLS72701, 24S2P A123 cells :bolt:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=109246

:bolt: My electric Ninja 250 clone: 16 000W Sabvoton 72200, 23S2P A123 cells : :bolt:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=90032

:bolt: My electric Scooter: 11 000W Sabvoton 72150, 72V 50Ah LiFePO4 cells: :bolt:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=75912

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tylerwatts   100 W

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Re: Ninja 250 "Clone" Made in China

Post by tylerwatts » Nov 09 2021 5:12am

Your build is looking excellent! I have a few thoughts if you don't mind?

1. How much does it weigh? Do you really need twin front calipers? It always upsets.me when a vehicle has too much braking. Remove 1 caliper and you'll have more power for the other caliper, lighter weight in the wheel for better suspension and lower rotating mass meaning the 1 caliper actually won't be doing double the work.

2. Your gussets look great, exactly the right thing.

3. What cooling will that APT have? Under the tank or behind the battery doesn't have much airflow and with those currents you absolutely need to shed heat quickly!

PS, love your 3d printing and the BMS case looks awesome! Don't make the logo smaller

cheers
Tyler


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Dui, ni shuo de dui   10 kW

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Re: Ninja 250

Post by Dui, ni shuo de dui » Nov 10 2021 8:33pm

Thanks Tyler!
I sure don't mind, it's always nice to get some comments, the forum is a bit too quiet usually :wink:
tylerwatts wrote:
Nov 09 2021 5:12am

1. How much does it weigh? Do you really need twin front calipers? It always upsets.me when a vehicle has too much braking. Remove 1 caliper and you'll have more power for the other caliper, lighter weight in the wheel for better suspension and lower rotating mass meaning the 1 caliper actually won't be doing double the work.
It weights 130 kg so that's pretty lightweight, but I weight 95kilos :roll:
The dual caliper came standard on the bike, and to be honest I absolutely love it. Believe it or not, but I actually care more about braking power than I care about acceleration, more G force for much cheaper! :lol:
Removing it would maybe lower the weight by one or two kilos, the rotating mass gain would be very unsignificant because the diameter of the disk compared to the diameter of the rim/tire is much smaller. Eating less and working out is probably a better option :lol:
The front brake is my favorite thing on the bike, so I don't think I'll change it anytime soon!
tylerwatts wrote:
Nov 09 2021 5:12am
3. What cooling will that APT have? Under the tank or behind the battery doesn't have much airflow and with those currents you absolutely need to shed heat quickly!
Basically none, just a bit of air flow coming from the front of the bike.'
The Sabvoton controller was installed at the same spot for years and it didn't heat, So I expect it to be the same with the APT. But if it turns out that heat is a problem I can probably watercool it easily.
tylerwatts wrote:
Nov 09 2021 5:12am
PS, love your 3d printing and the BMS case looks awesome! Don't make the logo smaller Image
Haha, thanks! I probably won't make it smaller then ;-)
:bolt: New Build in Progress: Electric Roadster, 30 000W Kelly KLS72701, 24S2P A123 cells :bolt:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=109246

:bolt: My electric Ninja 250 clone: 16 000W Sabvoton 72200, 23S2P A123 cells : :bolt:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=90032

:bolt: My electric Scooter: 11 000W Sabvoton 72150, 72V 50Ah LiFePO4 cells: :bolt:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=75912

Elektrosherpa   100 W

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Re: Ninja 250 "Clone" Made in China

Post by Elektrosherpa » Nov 11 2021 4:15am

Dui, ni shuo de dui wrote:
Nov 08 2021 1:45am

So here is how it looks like from the factory:
IMG_20211107_170231.jpg
Honestly-I have never seen such a lousily made frame.
Even if a Moroccan or Pakistani backyard welder would build a motorbike, it would look much better.

I guess it is a good idea to reinforce that...

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Dui, ni shuo de dui   10 kW

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Re: Ninja 250 "Clone" Made in China

Post by Dui, ni shuo de dui » Nov 11 2021 10:24am

Elektrosherpa wrote:
Nov 11 2021 4:15am

Honestly-I have never seen such a lousily made frame.
Even if a Moroccan or Pakistani backyard welder would build a motorbike, it would look much better.

I guess it is a good idea to reinforce that...
Yeah that's absolutely horrific. I have litterally zero welding experience (learned from youtube videos a few months ago) and yet even my ugly welds are better.

But, if I'm being pragmatic:
-It worked amazingly well for 4 years, even with the old 80 kilos lead acid battery
-The bike was fun to ride and I had no complaint about the frame
-This thing weights nothing :lol:
:bolt: New Build in Progress: Electric Roadster, 30 000W Kelly KLS72701, 24S2P A123 cells :bolt:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=109246

:bolt: My electric Ninja 250 clone: 16 000W Sabvoton 72200, 23S2P A123 cells : :bolt:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=90032

:bolt: My electric Scooter: 11 000W Sabvoton 72150, 72V 50Ah LiFePO4 cells: :bolt:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=75912

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spinningmagnets   100 GW

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Re: Ninja 250 "Clone" Made in China

Post by spinningmagnets » Nov 11 2021 11:51am

Thank you for posting all of these pics and information. It is good to show the truth about these products, and then you show where and how to strengthen the weak parts.

Excellent thread.

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Dui, ni shuo de dui   10 kW

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Re: Ninja 250 "Clone" Made in China

Post by Dui, ni shuo de dui » Nov 15 2021 10:04pm

Thanks @spinningmagnets!

Ok so now most of the big works on the frame is done.
First, I've finished welding the gussets:
IMG_20211111_193728.jpg
IMG_20211111_193728.jpg (339.76 KiB) Viewed 122 times
Then I worked on the bike stand. I'm making more or less the same thing I've done on the red roadster, which is to have the stand directly on the swingarm. While in theory this isn't ideal, it turns out that it worked just fine in practice. The main advantage here it that the stand will never rub on the floor again while cornering.

So first I had to cut and weld some metal:
IMG_20211113_163600.jpg
IMG_20211113_163600.jpg (271 KiB) Viewed 122 times
IMG_20211113_173326.jpg
IMG_20211113_173326.jpg (277.2 KiB) Viewed 122 times
Then added some reinforcement:
IMG_20211113_183632.jpg
IMG_20211113_183632.jpg (202.51 KiB) Viewed 122 times
Finally gave it a bit of grinding wheel to get it nice and smooth:
IMG_20211113_185853.jpg
IMG_20211113_185853.jpg (318.36 KiB) Viewed 122 times
I was using the red bike's stand at this point, so I had to duplicate it for this bike. I already made the first part on the lathe:
IMG_20211114_001912.jpg
IMG_20211114_001912.jpg (285.78 KiB) Viewed 122 times
Now I just hade to cut a bit of carbon tube and make a small endcap with the lathe, but I can only do that in the end because I need to cut the tube at a specific lenght. For that I need the wheels and suspension to be installed.

I also took the opportunity to go over most of the important welds with the TIG welder, in order to fill some holes and make them a bit prettier.
Now I'm in the process of smoothing a bit the frame, especially the parts that will remain visible. I won't go through the hassle of smoothing stuff that will be hidden behind the fairings since it would be a bit pointless, but at least whateer is visible should look nice.


So first, a bit of bondo:
IMG_20211115_194317.jpg
IMG_20211115_194317.jpg (256.54 KiB) Viewed 122 times
And then some sanding to get it nice and smooth:
IMG_20211115_202911.jpg
IMG_20211115_202911.jpg (245.23 KiB) Viewed 122 times
I'll now repeat this operation a few times until I get a nice result. Then It'll be time for a good coat of epoxy primer. The frame will be mate black, I've already ordered the paint.
:bolt: New Build in Progress: Electric Roadster, 30 000W Kelly KLS72701, 24S2P A123 cells :bolt:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=109246

:bolt: My electric Ninja 250 clone: 16 000W Sabvoton 72200, 23S2P A123 cells : :bolt:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=90032

:bolt: My electric Scooter: 11 000W Sabvoton 72150, 72V 50Ah LiFePO4 cells: :bolt:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=75912

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Dui, ni shuo de dui   10 kW

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Re: Ninja 250 "Clone" Made in China

Post by Dui, ni shuo de dui » Nov 24 2021 8:56pm

Good news: the frame is finished, yay!

First I went with a few coats of epoxy primer:
IMG_20211117_201734.jpg
IMG_20211117_201734.jpg (323.26 KiB) Viewed 91 times
And then a few coats of black. Was supposed to be mate black but in the end it turned out a bit shiny. Not sure why but it's not really an issue, still looks just fine.
IMG_20211124_192004.jpg
IMG_20211124_192004.jpg (232.92 KiB) Viewed 91 times
Not much else to show, this took a lot of time, prepping for paint is always very time consuming.
Also I did lose a few days because my air compressor released the magic smoke while I was painting the frame. So I had to wait a few days to get a new one.

Now I'm working on the battery box, I'll reuse the carbon one I made, obviously, but I'm improving a few stuff, in particular the way the brackets will be connected to it. I'll also need to design some kind of system to better secure the battery in the box, so It won't be able to move around anymore. I'll also need to design a way to keep moisture out of the box, I had a lot of condensation and this is a serious problem. Not sure yet how to tackle this issue so suggestions are welcome!
I'll also keep using the aerogel sheets for insulation. It does make a huge mess with lots of dust flying around, but it is the best possible insulator and it should keep a fire contained in the box for a while if it ever comes to that (hopefully never).

Anyway, still a lot of stuff to be made, the paint will have plenty of time to dry.
:bolt: New Build in Progress: Electric Roadster, 30 000W Kelly KLS72701, 24S2P A123 cells :bolt:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=109246

:bolt: My electric Ninja 250 clone: 16 000W Sabvoton 72200, 23S2P A123 cells : :bolt:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=90032

:bolt: My electric Scooter: 11 000W Sabvoton 72150, 72V 50Ah LiFePO4 cells: :bolt:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=75912

Elektrosherpa   100 W

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Re: Ninja 250 "Clone" Made in China

Post by Elektrosherpa » Nov 25 2021 6:08am

I know it's a bit late to ask this-but why didn't you reinforce the horrible bends of the lower frame tubes in the front part,
as you did it with the other two/four bad bends ???
IMG_20211117_201734.jpg
IMG_20211117_201734.jpg (96.99 KiB) Viewed 77 times

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Dui, ni shuo de dui   10 kW

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Re: Ninja 250 "Clone" Made in China

Post by Dui, ni shuo de dui » Nov 26 2021 4:41am

Elektrosherpa wrote:
Nov 25 2021 6:08am
I know it's a bit late to ask this-but why didn't you reinforce the horrible bends of the lower frame tubes in the front part,
as you did it with the other two/four bad bends ???

IMG_20211117_201734.jpg
That's because I can't, unfortunately. Otherwise I'll have no way to install the battery box back in place, it is an extremely tight fit.
It's actually so tight that I have to break a little part of the box in order to make it fit, then I have to fix it after it is secured to the frame. :roll:

So yeah, I didn't have much choice
Hopefully that shouldn't be a big issue, it should still be much stiffer than before
:bolt: New Build in Progress: Electric Roadster, 30 000W Kelly KLS72701, 24S2P A123 cells :bolt:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=109246

:bolt: My electric Ninja 250 clone: 16 000W Sabvoton 72200, 23S2P A123 cells : :bolt:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=90032

:bolt: My electric Scooter: 11 000W Sabvoton 72150, 72V 50Ah LiFePO4 cells: :bolt:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=75912

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