Ivermectin/Covid info

TrotterBob said:
Oh dear! Seems we've got a bit of waffling going on in high places. Stay safe out there and have a great Thanksgiving. :thumb:

https://www.newsweek.com/researchers-seek-volunteers-study-ivermectin-possible-covid-treatment-1652773

Yeah, the science is far from settled.
Japan allowed doctors to prescribe Ivermectin starting in August and their huge spike calmed down very very quickly to record lows ever since.

2021-11-23 17_18_33-Miracle in Japan - YouTube.png

Now i really want to see how Japan does if they continue to allow Ivermectin to be prescribed.
I hear also that in Japan, you can import the stuff from India pretty easily and just prescribe it to yourself.
 
neptronix said:
Now i really want to see how Japan does if they continue to allow Ivermectin to be prescribed.
Something even more important happened on Aug 15th of that year - Japan hit 50% vaccination. And by the beginning of September, when cases began to decline, they hit 60%.

Not to say that ivermectin is useless, of course. It works great against intestinal worms.
 
nicobie said:
I thought that the horse wormer was supposed to cure Covid. Is Japan now using it as a vaccine?

It also works prophylactically. It is a protease inhibitor, just like several of the new drugs being developed. The level of effectiveness is the only question, which must be determined by controlled studies. Clearly, the effectiveness is not massive, or we wouldn't need more trials. But since it is dirt cheap, and one of the safest drugs ever developed for humans (safer than ibuprofen, and acetaminophen), with 3.7 billion doses administered over 3 decades, it is worth pursuing.
 
The co-discoverer of the compound in Ivermectin got a Nobel for developing it...for humans...not horses...that came later.

He is now an emeritus professor at a college in his home country, Japan. He wanted Merck to fund a trial in Japan, back in early 2020. They declined, as it wouldn't make them a dime.
 
With a new variant coming, protease inhibitors will be very useful for preventing, and reducing the severity of breakthrough infections, until the vaccines can be tweaked to match the new spike configuration. Or better yet, other vaccines that don't target the spike, have a shot at controlling this thing.

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2021/05/spike-protein-vaccines-covid/618954/
 
JackFlorey said:
Something even more important happened on Aug 15th of that year - Japan hit 50% vaccination. And by the beginning of September, when cases began to decline, they hit 60%.
Yes , i think we all knew that Jack.
But the question is why didnt any other country with 60+% vaccine levels , see such a dramatic effect ?
 
So.. Merck's new drug has turned out to be a flop.
I recently read more about Pfizer's new Covid drug and how it works.
It's a proteoloytic enzyme inhibitor and works on the same action as Ivermectin.

From a 'synthetic benchmark' of 3CLPro enzyme inhibition ( the same method pharmaceutical companies use to find new drug candidates ):

covid-drugs.png

Drugs that target 3CLPro also work on the original SARS-COV and many other coronaviruses. We knew this since 2003:
https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.1085658

So now that we know Ivermectin and Pfizer's drug work similarly..
Pharmaceutical industry apologists' best and closest to valid argument is that Ivermectin does not have enough activity at 3CLPro..

Example:
https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/pf...bitor-drug-is-not-just-repackaged-ivermectin/

The LD50 of Ivermectin, if you translated 25mg/kg ( mouse number ) to humans, for a 80kg human, would be 2000mg.
Ivermectin is usually given as 5-15mg tablets.. and there is plenty of room to increase the dosage given the excellent safety profile of ivermectin ( vs other antivirals ) and have effective CL3Pro action.

Another thing is that the FDA and many other western health organizations set an artificial cap on the dosage of Ivermectin that can be administered. So i don't know of any western scientific journals publishing clinical trials of Ivermectin at high doses.

So even this apologist talking point goes poof when you consider that proper western research on Ivermectin is blockaded. You can't say Ivermectin doesn't work when you haven't tested it at doses appropriate for the application.


I'm more and more veering in the direction that the key source of misinformation has been pharmaceutical companies looking to make more and more money, and using media and government influence to make sure that message is heard and others aren't.

Pfizer is making a new vaccine for the omicron variant now but it's going to take 100 days. In that time, Omicron will have run most of, if not all of it's course.

What will Pfizer's Paxlovid cost? Well, the United States government just handed Pfizer 5.3 billion USD for 10 million courses, which works out to $530 per "course". So the real cost to consumer/insurer is probably beyond that.

This is a lot cheaper and a lot more effective than a week in the hospital, so people are going to pick the pill when they get sick... and Pfizer could make a trillion dollars or two selling it to the world.

I just think about how we could have avoided the hospital overrun problem, a ton of deaths, the lockdowns, the viral mutations, etc by using a drug like Ivermectin from the start. I also ask why Hydroxychloroquine, with it's very poor results in clinical practice, and also in clinical trials, was EVER chosen over Ivermectin ..?
 
Biden now has his trillion-dollar Covid relief bill, to mirror the Trump trillion-dollar relief bill. The vaccine doses do not cost the patient anything, but the five global pharma companies are again recieving hundreds of millions of dollars for the vaccines and boosters.

The $530 per course fee is very revealing.
 
I need a vaccine to walk into a cinema, said vaccine offers said protection from covid iterations from the start of year so i need to take my 3rd booster jab to protect me from basicly nothing as i still need my forth and until thats created i can not go out in latge public gatherings as theres now a south african varient thats going to shut the world down once again.

Mean while MP's are not made to vaccinate plus they can travel spreading this deadly disease far and wide without establishing the true ground zero of covid theres no way we can truly understand the nature of these mutations.

One things for sure cold and flu vaccine are still around decades from inception expect no less of covid specially when the dirty rats keeps releasing new strains.

Theres something bigger than democracy CAPITALISM its swallowed up what once was and mutated truth into lies, thats why biden wont release the kennedy document's theres been meddling for aslong as theres been humans.
 
Warren said:
The co-discoverer of the compound in Ivermectin got a Nobel for developing it...for humans...not horses...that came later.
Yep. For treating worms.

From Nature:

"The winners are: William C. Campbell, a microbiologist at Drew University in Madison, New Jersey; Satoshi Ōmura, a microbiologist at Kitasato University in Japan; and Youyou Tu, a pharmacologist at the China Academy of Chinese Medical Sciences in Beijing. . . . , Campbell and Ōmura discovered a class of compounds, called avermectins, that kill parasitic roundworms that cause infections such as river blindness and lymphatic filariasis. The most potent of these was released onto the market in 1981 as the drug ivermectin."

I mean, in 2018 two researchers - James Allison and Tasuku Honjo - won the Nobel Prize for developing a new drug called ipilimumab. It's a PD-1 inhibitor that helps your body fight off cancer. That sounds even more impressive. Is everyone going to use that next to protect themselves from COVID?
 
JackFlorey said:
It's a PD-1 inhibitor that helps your body fight off cancer. That sounds even more impressive. Is everyone going to use that next to protect themselves from COVID?

Yes. If it proves effect for COVID, and is safe and cheap. Why wouldn't they?
 
neptronix said:
The LD50 of Ivermectin, if you translated 25mg/kg ( mouse number ) to humans, for a 80kg human, would be 2000mg.
Ivermectin is usually given as 5-15mg tablets.. and there is plenty of room to increase the dosage given the excellent safety profile of ivermectin ( vs other antivirals ) and have effective CL3Pro action.

Maybe. At least for healthy adults.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12362927/

But with sick people you have to sort out if any worsening of their condition is due to the virus, or the drug. Hence the need for large scale studies. But these studies should have been a year ago.
 
JackFlorey said:
Warren said:
Yes. If it proves effect for COVID and is safe and cheap. Why wouldn't they?
Important part highlighted.

I don't see where you and I have any disagreement. I am saying that the computer modeling, and the lab studies show Ivermectin as being effective, and therefore worthy of a larger study, which is being done, just much later than would have been prudent. if it turns out the value is small, then we will not have had people die unnecessarily.
 
Warren said:
I don't see where you and I have any disagreement.
On that we don't.

My point was that saying something won a Nobel prize means exactly zero when it comes to its effectiveness against SARS-CoV-2.
 
JackFlorey said:
My point was that saying something won a Nobel prize means exactly zero when it comes to its effectiveness against SARS-CoV-2.

Ivermectin didn't win a Nobel, Satoshi Ōmura did for co-discovering and developing the compound. My point in mentioning it was that he clearly understands science, and Ivermectin, well enough to have been listened to, when he suggested a trail back in January of 2020. He is not a talk show shock jock.
 
Warren said:
But with sick people you have to sort out if any worsening of their condition is due to the virus, or the drug. Hence the need for large scale studies. But these studies should have been a year ago.

You couldn't do them because of political pressure and corporate pressure.
The powers that be didn't want you to even try the stuff.
In fact if you are in a high place, they will threaten you if you really talk about it and don't follow the standard of care as a physician.

Anyone who has read the last two decades of research on coronaviruses, antiviral pharmacology, and ivermectin would have had to conclude Ivermectin should be among the first things to try during a novel coronavirus outbreak.

Using Ivermectin for Covid-19 is not an unreasonable idea at all. That's not why the research wasn't done.
I don't think any of this is a mistake or overlooking.
It really can't be.
 
Warren said:
Ivermectin didn't win a Nobel, Satoshi Ōmura did for co-discovering and developing the compound.
And my point is that that means zero in terms of its effectiveness against COVID (or cancer, or strep throat, or infertility - or anything else it wasn't intended to treat.)

It is, of course, very effective against parasitic worms. Indeed, if you treat a large population with ivermectin in places with lots of parasitic worms (like, say, India) you will likely see better outcomes. This is not because ivermectin is effective against SARS-CoV-2. It is because parasites are one of the things that leads to worse outcomes with COVID, and getting rid of the worms will make the person healthier overall - and give them a better chance of survival even if they do contract COVID.
 
neptronix said:
Using Ivermectin for Covid-19 is not an unreasonable idea at all.
It's neither reasonable nor unreasonable. It's like taking aspirin, or hydroxychloroquine, or zinc, or going on 100% oxygen, or prayer. All those things might work. None of them are unusually harmful. Heck, if you have worms. ivermectin might even improve your chances of surviving COVID - since it will kill the parasites and make you healthier overall.
 
Data shows these vaccines dont work !
https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2021/11/hard_data_shows_the_covid_vaccines_dont_work.html
It is apparent from the data for various countries and regeons that high levels of vaccination has NO correllation to suppressing the levels of infection.
 
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