Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

I think I'll ditch the 3 speed now. If I made the bike for some lamer for sale who is afraid of cops or something I would use 3 speed but it will be mine I need max power all the time. And also there is cruise so there is no need for 3 speed if you have cruise. Maybe if there was no cruise then 3 speed might come useful. There will be constant motor temp monitoring too so there really is no reason to cut back power.

What's your display btw? I might wanna use display. Is it the standard votol display?
 
I didnt set garbage that's how the controller came. The only port I set is low brake to the brown/white wire I dont know which port now and cruise to grey white if I remember correctly. That's all I need actually. I dont need the 3 speed and I dont have display. I think the problem is deeper than port settings now. The low voltage supply seems to be off. But i'll check it out tomorrow to make sure.

The motor is fine it was tested with another controller. With your setup that is color to color exchange hall exchange phase ticked and 60 degrees it runs very fine no load. Much much better than the garbage I uploaded on yt yesterday also no excessive revs. So the setup is correct now only the controller doesnt work if it doesnt have an external power supply from the data cable. Which means that it cant produce the 5 volts for the soft electronics from the battery voltage. In other words a bad dc dc converter inside the controller.
 
As soon as I unplug the data cable from the controller it is dead. As soon as I plug it back the controller works fine. What else can it be than a bad Dc-dc converter? There's no way that this is a setup question imo. I simply fried some electronix inside the controller. Most possibly when I tweaked the hall shift from a battery that didnt even have bms...But who knows maybe I shorted some wires that cooked the dc-dc. We'll never know but i'm kinda confident that the dc-dc is bad. So setup wont help this controller at this point... :cry:
 
Sattva Ram said:
I didnt set garbage that's how the controller came. The only port I set is low brake to the brown/white wire I dont know which port now and cruise to grey white if I remember correctly. That's all I need actually. I dont need the 3 speed and I dont have display. I think the problem is deeper than port settings now. The low voltage supply seems to be off. But i'll check it out tomorrow to make sure.

The motor is fine it was tested with another controller. With your setup that is color to color exchange hall exchange phase ticked and 60 degrees it runs very fine no load. Much much better than the garbage I uploaded on yt yesterday also no excessive revs. So the setup is correct now only the controller doesnt work if it doesnt have an external power supply from the data cable. Which means that it cant produce the 5 volts for the soft electronics from the battery voltage. In other words a bad dc dc converter inside the controller.
Click to expand...

The only way it can require a usb cable from the controller to your computer to run is if you got some wire go going to the wrong place or grounded or broken wire that makes when you move the harness.
08E824DA-DE46-4EAC-B3DB-5CE8363237C2.jpeg

Although not used in the non can version unless you use the Bluetooth module, it does share the +5v with the throttle coming from pin 11 of the controller.

My first suspect would be tracing this and see if it got damaged when you tried to unplug Hal 3000. Lol

You could also check continuity of the black ground wire to battery negative and make sure thats not broke but i dont think thats it because you dont need that black wire after it exots the controller were the wire might be damaged but you definitely need that pink wire to go to throttle after it exits the controller.

I recommend checking the pink wire for damage. The controller wont start without a signal from the throttle.
 
Okay but why does it work with computer connected? Doesnt it require the throttle then? With the controller connected it has perfect throttle response. So it cant really be the throttle...

Anyway I'll check it tomorrow it's PJ time now. I really really hope it's not the DC-DC but some trivial issue. It's just so strange that it produces a phenomenon like this...
 
Sattva Ram said:
I think I'll ditch the 3 speed now. If I made the bike for some lamer for sale who is afraid of cops or something I would use 3 speed but it will be mine I need max power all the time. And also there is cruise so there is no need for 3 speed if you have cruise. Maybe if there was no cruise then 3 speed might come useful. There will be constant motor temp monitoring too so there really is no reason to cut back power.
Click to expand...
The adjustable speed and Torque given by the 3 speed switch is one of the main benefit of a programmable controller.

Even if not worried about overheating or anything then it can be used at ECO, NORMAL and PLAID When you dont care if you need to pedal home. Lol.

The main problems with many throttles is they go full range with 1/8 twist, so the speed switch lets you turn that 1/8 twist into 50% speed and gives better fine control in some places.

You are so close to having that controller set up like a pro. Dont give up now.

What's your display btw? I might wanna use display. Is it the standard votol display?
Click to expand...

I ordered it from here:
https://shopee.ph/product/503760699/10341727768

And here it is when using YXT (single lin speed signal)
[youtube] https://youtu.be/Luas1bIHrRo[/youtube]

UPDATE:

This is my old display which might explain why i needed to replace it:
32949D6C-CA54-49DF-B415-8D32643DBC8C.jpeg
9107DF22-FB20-4AAB-851B-DBEBFBA977A9.jpeg
A03C5B66-E3F8-4969-9C65-E6D316EFE4B5.jpeg

I was pretty shocked when i saw the display on this ebike. It looked like what you expect to see on a kids Barbie Convetter At Walmart. Lol
 
Well actually I'll have smart bms so i dont think i need display too much. Also it's a bicycle it cant fit such a huge dash.

Yeah I really am close. Actually it's all set now but I cant try it out cause it needs the computer...😔 what a bummer i was all worked up to finally see how it goes and then big nothing...anyway we'll see it soon...
 
Sattva Ram said:
Okay but why does it work with computer connected? Doesnt it require the throttle then? With the controller connected it has perfect throttle response. So it cant really be the throttle...

Anyway I'll check it tomorrow it's PJ time now. I really really hope it's not the DC-DC but some trivial issue. It's just so strange that it produces a phenomenon like this...
Click to expand...

Mu guess is whatever strain you put on the harness to connect it to the computer makes the 5v connection and when you disconnect the computer the harness moves back to where the broken wire joint it open circuit again.

My crystal ball says your problem is with the pink wire from from PIN 8, up to where its spliced to go to the throttle and debugging connector, and then to the throttle connector.

Maybe its at simple as the throttle connector is loose and when you cinnect the PC it disconnects the throttle. All it takes is one of the 3 through wires to get disconnected by 0.0001mm and the controller wont get the 0.8v signal its looking for.

Its not the 5v bus because your pc doesnt feed 5v to the debugging line and the controller runs, so its a loose connection in the 5v wire from PIN 8.
 
Sattva Ram said:
Well actually I'll have smart bms so i dont think i need display too much. Also it's a bicycle it cant fit such a huge dash.

Yeah I really am close. Actually it's all set now but I cant try it out cause it needs the computer...😔 what a bummer i was all worked up to finally see how it goes and then big nothing...anyway we'll see it soon...
Click to expand...

Hal 3000 doesn’t need your computer it just needs its 5v wire to your throttle fixed. Lol
 
deida789 said:
by the way adjusting the 3 box left/right and also throttle voltage didn't fix my problem that if i keep the speed at certain point for a minute and i accelerate again its still keeping the same speed or go up but extremely slowly :(
Click to expand...

Unfortunately your controller behaves differently than mine so i cant even runs tests on mine to try to mimic what yours it doing.

Maybe try setting flux weakening to 0 and tuning your current loop KI and KP values, then adding FW back in until your peak speed it obtained (but this will definitely be way over the motor continuous rating. Mine is already overloaded at max base speed so 0 FW works well for me.

Once you know your base speed without flux weakening maybe the speed you see the problem is right at the transition from base to FW.

Since your motor is not a standard QS motor i think you have to determine pole pairs yourself. Its pretty easy with basic things you have around the house and it will let you eliminated that variable from the troubleshooting.
[https://endless-sphere.com/forums/...te a program and manual for their controller.
 
BareKuda said:
deida789 said:
by the way adjusting the 3 box left/right and also throttle voltage didn't fix my problem that if i keep the speed at certain point for a minute and i accelerate again its still keeping the same speed or go up but extremely slowly :(
Click to expand...

Unfortunately your controller behaves differently than mine so i cant even runs tests on mine to try to mimic what yours it doing.

Maybe try setting flux weakening to 0 and tuning your current loop KI and KP values, then adding FW back in until your peak speed it obtained (but this will definitely be way over the motor continuous rating. Mine is already overloaded at max base speed so 0 FW works well for me.

Once you know your base speed without flux weakening maybe the speed you see the problem is right at the transition from base to FW.

Since your motor is not a standard QS motor i think you have to determine pole pairs yourself. Its pretty easy with basic things you have around the house and it will let you eliminated that variable from the troubleshooting.
[https://endless-sphere.com/forums/... screens on se 2.32, maybe in the hidden menu
Click to expand...
 
BareKuda said:
deida789 said:
by the way adjusting the 3 box left/right and also throttle voltage didn't fix my problem that if i keep the speed at certain point for a minute and i accelerate again its still keeping the same speed or go up but extremely slowly :(
Click to expand...

Unfortunately your controller behaves differently than mine so i cant even runs tests on mine to try to mimic what yours it doing.

Maybe try setting flux weakening to 0 and tuning your current loop KI and KP values, then adding FW back in until your peak speed it obtained (but this will definitely be way over the motor continuous rating. Mine is already overloaded at max base speed so 0 FW works well for me.

Once you know your base speed without flux weakening maybe the speed you see the problem is right at the transition from base to FW.

Since your motor is not a standard QS motor i think you have to determine pole pairs yourself. Its pretty easy with basic things you have around the house and it will let you eliminated that variable from the troubleshooting.
[https://endless-sphere.com/forums/... Envoyé de mon iPhone en utilisant Tapatalk
Click to expand...
 
deida789 said:
about the app, well on the phone its running 2.32 but the bluetooth app is 2.33, i dont know where to find the 2.33 pc version, because the bluetooth app doesn't give me access to the last page with rpm.
Click to expand...
As far as I know the latest program on the Siaecosys website is for all Votol controllers. I think The 2.32 and 2.33 is the firware in the controller and will show up when you connect. Strangely the configuration file saves the SW and HW version too which is a little strange because I expect the Votol program to read that from the controller.

I have configurator files with 2.32 but never tried to see what happens if i open that and try to write it to the controller. Will it overwrite the 2.33 or will the 2.33 in the controller stay locked and then if you save the file it writes it as 2,33 now instead of 2,32?

If you aren’t getting display page i wonder if the baud rate of the Bluetooth module is set too high or too low. Did you already try to pair the Bluetooth with your laptop and see if the latest Votol program can communicate with it?
 
I did some test runs with the correct setup. Very nice control the motor is ice cold this time.

However it still goes backwards. Actually it has nothing to do with the computer being connected or not it's perfectly random whether it starts backwards or forwards. I have ZERO idea what might cause such a thing. I'm completely lost at this point. Finally it works as it should setupwise and now it's bad again...

It's as if it put itself into reverse or something. The power and rpm is kinda low when it starts backwards...
 
Sattva Ram said:
I did some test runs with the correct setup. Very nice control the motor is ice cold this time.

However it still goes backwards. Actually it has nothing to do with the computer being connected or not it's perfectly random whether it starts backwards or forwards. I have ZERO idea what might cause such a thing. I'm completely lost at this point. Finally it works as it should setupwise and now it's bad again...

It's as if it put itself into reverse or something. The power and rpm is kinda low when it starts backwards...
Click to expand...

Go to port settings, change PA0 from “10:reverese_set” to “1:empty_function”. Click “param write”, then reboot the controller. See if that fixes it.

P.S.
The real problem is your grey/white wire is intermittently touching ground, and since thats set for reverse, it runs in reverse. Since your reverse speed is set for 19% it only runs 1/5 as fast backwards.

The quick fix is to clear PA0 port but you need to check your Harness because it seems to have chaffed or something and is finding a ground. Thats my best guess.
 
Sattva Ram said:
Yeah that's the first thing that came to mind. I'll do it tomorrow.
Click to expand...

What was the problem with the 5v wire? Loose connection? Broken splice? Throttle Connector not fully plugged in?
 
Nothing wrong with the wires. At least seemingly. Everything is fine. This is a complete mystery...maybe the controller is inherently shit who knows. I'm thinking about a firmware update tbh. I dont know if it can be done...maybe it's time for a tabula rasa. Anyway I might just upload the initial config the controller came with. (Hope it still have it somewhwere...)
 
Sattva Ram said:
Nothing wrong with the wires. At least seemingly. Everything is fine. This is a complete mystery...maybe the controller is inherently shit who knows. I'm thinking about a firmware update tbh. I dont know if it can be done...maybe it's time for a tabula rasa. Anyway I might just upload the initial config the controller came with. (Hope it still have it somewhwere...)
Click to expand...

There is definitely something wrong with your wiring. The problem with internment connection is like trying to find that leak in a roof that only happens when the wind blows the rain a certain direction. Lol.

Rather that using the original configurator file, just finish fixing that one and save each update thats better than before or revert back to the last good one.

With the connectors sometimes one pin isn’t locked well and gets pushed out when you connect the two connectors. So it’s barely touching sometimes and not touching others, causing intermittent problems. Like my hall wire connector before.

Here is my original hall connector i cut off my controller:
E7758EC8-0D99-48A6-A3FF-8A59CCCE9AA2.jpeg
Like yours, it has the temperature sensor wire but no idea how to make it work because my motor doesn’t have temperature sensor. Lol. I had to cut this off because i wanted to make my old controler and this one quick change and now all i need to do is unplug the Votol and plug in the Original, phase Wire color match, hall wires in both controller plugs match, so it takes 10 minutes to swap them.

I know you want to keep blaming the controller but so far it all comes back to improper setup. The Votol wants to run but its telling you:

B5D39487-CCE6-491D-A9D1-9BC2CCE02D37.gif
 
I thought about it too but the wires are all in the connector they can't touch. The harness is intact as intact can be no chafing there. I think it doesnt even spin at 19%. (However if it needs hdc for 3 speed then it also needs hdc for reverse. And hdc is not on now so maybe 19% means nothing and it is indeed reverse kicking in randomly anyway tomorrow I weed out reverse and see...)
 
I felt some vibration at a certain rpm tho. So some fine tuning will be needed eventually i'm sure of it. I so wish that it was only fine tuning my biggest problem i long for that day...
 
Sattva Ram said:
I felt some vibration at a certain rpm tho. So some fine tuning will be needed eventually i'm sure of it. I so wish that it was only fine tuning my biggest problem i long for that day...
Click to expand...

If you didnt tune KI and KP yet it will have vibration anything from the feel and sound of running over rumble stips at 70 mph to a mild resonance at a certain speed. It was about 8km/h on my bike.

At first i was going by the KI values just being “sync” so thats all I adjusted, from low which gave violent rumble to mid which gave mild resonance to high which made it sound overworked. The best I could get was an annoying resonance passing through 100 RPM (8 km/h) which had the rear shock springs in sympathetic vibration.

After the chinese app showed that it was actually KI and down under the 3 speeds is the KP (which I set to 0 because every manual says its flux weakening lol).

Then i cranked KP up (0–>6000) and that allowed me to take some out of KI (700—>500). Then i tweaked each until it was as good as i can get it under load and all accelerated levels.

Now the resonance is so small the shock spings dont vibrate and its you have to try to go 100 rpm to even hear/feel it. But now it does make a strange noise when moving the bike (or rear tire) with the controller on. Like its trying to keep track of where those magnets are at all time and ready to activate the right phases.

The origin controller is quiet in all stages of operation but the Votol offers me a lot. The number 1 gripe about the origin controller was the throttle was erratic at times and you needed to use speed one to put a bandaid on the problem.

The Votol gives me speed and torque control, regen, YXT signal for my display, future-proof allowing me to upgrade battery to 72v and change chemists from lead acid to lithium ion or LiFePO4.
 
Yeah lead acid is kinda bad. The votol deserves better battery.

I have it directly exposed to wind I made a bracket for it so it faces forward with its heatsink getting maximum air. I'm thinking of giving it 45 amps at least. It's only a 6 fet controller tho but with a big ass heatsink. I hope it can handle it. I wanna squeeze some performance out of it tbh. (Maybe an upgrade with original 4110s...)
 
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