FLIPSKY new 20s 100A tiny controller (vesc based)

Electric Motors and Controllers
b264   100 µW

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Re: FLIPSKY new 20s 100A tiny controller (vesc based)

Post by b264 » Jan 10 2022 11:46pm

mxlemming wrote:
Jan 08 2022 5:31am
What if there is no source? What if they just took the 75300 binaries that you can get direct from vesc tool/vesc project and looked at the linker script to just edit the values in the binary?
It's still illegal to ship that binary, modified, or unmodified, without the ability and willingness to ship the source code for it.

If you ship the binaries for GPL copyrighted software, you must also provide the source for those binaries upon request. Full stop.

It's not open for negotiation. It's against the law.

@mxlemming Did you read the GPL software license? You seem really intent on allowing people to steal from you. Either that, or you work for, or are bribed by, Flipsky.

I feel like a lot of misunderstanding would go away if you just read the GPLv3 license.

Cheers

minimum   100 W

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Re: FLIPSKY new 20s 100A tiny controller (vesc based)

Post by minimum » Jan 11 2022 2:08am

jaykup wrote:
Jan 10 2022 5:17pm
...
For the uninitiated, here is a short list of 3rd party VESC addons:
  • metr (&robogotchi, ilogger) - A powerful web & android data recording device that produces beautiful GPS graphs of each ride that displays motor current, battery current, voltage, motor temp, esc temp, speed, etc. Metr's website now has an LTE and GPS enabled model.
  • Davega display - A UART based display that can display all VESC telemetry in real time including range estimates & BMS data
  • FlexiBMS & Ennoid BMS - smart CAN enabled BMSs that can send data to the VESC so it can make decisions based on p group voltages or other parameters
  • LED controllers(Maxkgo, TelTail TTL) that read UART data to change LEDs based on throttle, brake, standby & reverse (example1, example2)
  • uSplit - A UART splitter to add more UART ports
...
Thank you :thumb: , you just made my day (I've been looking for a solution of vesc display and LED lights for a while).

Koxx   10 µW

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Re: FLIPSKY new 20s 100A tiny controller (vesc based)

Post by Koxx » Jan 11 2022 3:05am

mxlemming wrote:
Jan 10 2022 6:15pm
Koxx wrote:
Jan 10 2022 5:34pm
and for low cost, we created the SESC 😁
partially VESC based, open source, vesctool compatible but running on a 25€ xiaomi hardware. sorry out of topic. 🙈
This looks very very good. Tidy codebase, runs on cheap as anything hardware... Uses ST MCSDK which supports field weakening, MTPA... out of the box. Does it work well already? This is great.
yes, we have pretty good results 😉

github is here :
https://github.com/Koxx3/SmartESC_STM32_v2

and telegram help group os here :
https://t.me/+5ZUGjIWBmHg1ZDhk

i'll stop talking about it here to avoid misleading the topic.

john61ct   100 GW

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Re: FLIPSKY new 20s 100A tiny controller (vesc based)

Post by john61ct » Jan 11 2022 8:16am

started a fresh Smart ESC thread here

viewtopic.php?p=1695514#p1695514

Koxx   10 µW

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Re: FLIPSKY new 20s 100A tiny controller (vesc based)

Post by Koxx » Jan 11 2022 8:31am

:bigthumb: :bigthumb:

mxlemming   10 kW

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Re: FLIPSKY new 20s 100A tiny controller (vesc based)

Post by mxlemming » Jan 11 2022 6:56pm

b264 wrote:
Jan 10 2022 11:46pm
...

Either that, or you work for, or are bribed by, Flipsky.

I feel like a lot of misunderstanding would go away if you just read the GPLv3 license.

Cheers
I don't work for or am bribed by flipsky, I own one flipsky ESC I paid full price for on bang good. I'm an engineer in Cambridge UK who likes high tech, helping other people with their projects and power electronics. I make zero profit from any of this.

I understand you meanwhile represent one of flipsky's competitors and have ongoing form for trash talking them and other competitors. You rile me with your unhelpfulness so I've responded.

Go take it up with flipsky if you actually give a shit. I somewhat doubt your sincerity.

I actually am coming to really like the vesc project, I've found in one of the the VESC groups Benjamin is quite active and really helpful and interesting, but he's also going to implement what he wants, from scratch in his own time. Even if flipsky had some magic (which they don't) it's not like it would ever get back into the project, Benjamin might hear about it and implement his own version as and when. The header, jaykup already created so no loss.

Meanwhile, if anyone around Cambridge area has one of these new 75100s and is willing to let me probe it with a scope... On the basis of "I break it I'll buy you a new one" it would be pretty interesting to get some double pulses tests, current shunt tests etc done.

My wife has banned me from buying more ESCs. I have enough custom and other half dismantled boards that even I'm seriously wondering what to do with them. I've run out of shelf space for ebike stuff.
Hold my beer while I divide by zero :flame:

b264   100 µW

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Re: FLIPSKY new 20s 100A tiny controller (vesc based)

Post by b264 » Jan 11 2022 7:27pm

mxlemming wrote:
Jan 11 2022 6:56pm

I actually am coming to really like the vesc project
If you really like the VESC project, you would advocate for it to not be stolen.

mxlemming   10 kW

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Re: FLIPSKY new 20s 100A tiny controller (vesc based)

Post by mxlemming » Jan 11 2022 7:31pm

b264 wrote:
Jan 11 2022 7:27pm
mxlemming wrote:
Jan 11 2022 6:56pm

I actually am coming to really like the vesc project
If you really like the VESC project, you would advocate for it to not be stolen.
I advocate for a mod to fork this thread into the dumpster.
Hold my beer while I divide by zero :flame:

john61ct   100 GW

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Re: FLIPSKY new 20s 100A tiny controller (vesc based)

Post by john61ct » Jan 11 2022 9:13pm

Yes we've made our point with the FOSS enforcement / piracy issue, harping on it further, more than say once a month anyway is pretty pointless

jaykup   100 µW

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Re: FLIPSKY new 20s 100A tiny controller (vesc based)

Post by jaykup » Jan 13 2022 11:13pm

I loaded the new beta firmware to test out field weakening on a small hub motor, and tested the amps at which it will eventually thermal throttle with no ESC airflow.

13s battery, Ancheer 27.5 mountain bike with a 500w geared hub motor, GPS base top speed of 22mph on a full charge. Will run at that top speed all day long without overheating.

When I used 40A of field weakening, the top speed increased to 30mph! Phase amps also increased substantially. With field weakening active, it will always draw a set amount of amps based on RPMs instead of just load. If the controller has zero air flow, it will drop down to about 35A continuous phase current after a few miles.

Detailed metr logs are posted here

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chuyskywalker   100 W

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Re: FLIPSKY new 20s 100A tiny controller (vesc based)

Post by chuyskywalker » Jan 14 2022 1:21am

jaykup wrote:
Jan 13 2022 11:13pm
Detailed metr logs are posted here
Nicely gathered.

Seems like with a bit of active cooling it could hold that 50ish amps, you think?

Quick side note from the other forum
Feature wise it would be nice if field weakening only worked when a button was being held.
I believe, if I recall correctly, that (at least in the ASI/Phaserunner world) field weakening only kicks in when you reach the max speed the motor will normally run at as doing it any sooner would be wasteful.

Oli.Hall   100 mW

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Re: FLIPSKY new 20s 100A tiny controller (vesc based)

Post by Oli.Hall » Jan 14 2022 10:19am

mxlemming wrote:
Jan 11 2022 6:56pm

Meanwhile, if anyone around Cambridge area has one of these new 75100s and is willing to let me probe it with a scope... On the basis of "I break it I'll buy you a new one" it would be pretty interesting to get some double pulses tests, current shunt tests etc done.
I might be able to help, send me a PM and we'll see if we can work something out.

thanks,
Oli.

jaykup   100 µW

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Re: FLIPSKY new 20s 100A tiny controller (vesc based)

Post by jaykup » Jan 14 2022 11:06am

chuyskywalker wrote:
Jan 14 2022 1:21am
Seems like with a bit of active cooling it could hold that 50ish amps, you think?
Sounds reasonable. The IGBTs are screwed to an aluminum bar that uses a thermal compound to the outer aluminum case so heat transfer to open air should be decent, but it may still need a finned heatsink mounted to it.
chuyskywalker wrote:
Jan 14 2022 1:21am
Feature wise it would be nice if field weakening only worked when a button was being held.
I believe, if I recall correctly, that (at least in the ASI/Phaserunner world) field weakening only kicks in when you reach the max speed the motor will normally run at as doing it any sooner would be wasteful.
Yeah, in the beta VESC settings you can set the duty cycle at which the field weakening begins to activate, and a ramping time to allow it to come to full power. The runs I posted were set to activate at 90% with a controller max of 95% duty cycle... but I remember seeing a discussion about the duty cycle calculations being affected by field weakening so in practice that should roughly activate it when it reaches base speed.

What I was thinking of is an optional feature that kept field weakening disabled even under full throttle/RPMs, and would only turn on when a button was held down. That would keep the bike running efficiently but allow for an extra boost of speed at the expense of range when needed. Otherwise I would always be trying to back off the throttle to stay out of that field weakening state, or just get used to the speed and burn through a battery twice as fast. I know for field weakening's intended use on IPM motors this is a moot point, but when used to inefficiently overspeed SPM motors, it might be useful.

rogervize   1 mW

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Re: FLIPSKY new 20s 100A tiny controller (vesc based)

Post by rogervize » Jan 14 2022 10:51pm

Has anyone tried this controller on a heavy ebike like the Stealth B52?
I need to replace my crystalyte controller after the regenerative braking components and other circuitry was severely damaged.
Cost of a new replacement is higher than I would like and I am thinking that this new technology is the go especially as it is open source and cheap.
I am quite technical and fully understand the BLDC .
Thanks for any advice.

BalorNG   1 kW

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Re: FLIPSKY new 20s 100A tiny controller (vesc based)

Post by BalorNG » Jan 17 2022 1:17am

As I understand, new firmware and tool is out of the beta.
Does it work on this controller after replacing the bootloader?

jaykup   100 µW

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Re: FLIPSKY new 20s 100A tiny controller (vesc based)

Post by jaykup » Jan 17 2022 6:22am

Yes 5.3 works after replacing the bootloader. You have to load the firmware manually as it's not part of the main branch yet. See instructions here

viewtopic.php?f=30&t=113445&start=150#p1693925

b264   100 µW

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Re: FLIPSKY new 20s 100A tiny controller (vesc based)

Post by b264 » Jan 17 2022 7:03pm

mxlemming wrote:
Jan 10 2022 2:50pm
badgineer wrote:
Jan 09 2022 3:21pm
Hi
mxlemming wrote:
Jan 09 2022 1:32pm
.... Critically here, if I started with one of Benjamin's images and made the changes as above and supplied them to you, it would not even be possible for me to supply you further source, at gunpoint or otherwise. The true source is already supplied.
Come on mxlemming, you're surely playing the devils advocate here for the lulz, aren't you :).

I mean, I know editing the binary is not that uncommon, but it is done more to hack some ready made proprietary product (or?). Also, I don't think it's the case here, especially since they gave a black on white response to jaykup: "Our engineers have done some changes based on vesc, not opening source. Sorry."

And the argument that it's for hardware protection and/or something to do with warranty is... unconvincing.
Not releasing the source is ineffective, as you yourself actually told us it would be earlier in the thread. And as you correctly predicted, people have easily figured out how to flash software! Not releasing the *supported* software just makes the situation worse, since people are flashing anyway. There's far better ways to detect tampering for warranty purposes.

I think it's just that they can and probably will get away with it, and they don't give a rats ass about our GPL whining as long as they considering keeping their changes proprietary good for business.

China. As long as the cat catches mice, they don't care what color it is. True story.

The only way they'll stop this practice is if it's bad for business.
Either bad press resulting in bad sales, or some legal action where it hurts, like they can't sell it anymore outside of china (can't really imagine how that could happen).

Br,
badgineer
Tbh, i just hate GPL and the"what's mine is mine and what's yours is mine"attitude. I got really kicked off the other day when I found the entire python source code with the MIT license striped out and replaced with GPL v3 on GitHub. Hopefully that's been nuked by now...

I also hate:
B264 derailing all technical discussions into this debate the second they smell a GPL infringement (which I'm not helping by continuing to be fair)
The way the GPL licence allows manufacturers to shirk their responsibilities to provide a statutory warranty (there are examples of trampa publicly telling buyers they're not getting warranty because they did something like change things in code) (i advocate for me by advocating for warranty on hardware)
The general disposition of the GPL community of "the only licence that needs obeying is ours" (see casainho and the recommending buying fake seggers debate).

I'm sure you're right. Flipsky probably did recompile the code. But GPL is one part of law and there's a ton of safety and warranty related bits of law it really isn't compatible with, which is far more relevant to the 99%.

Why do you think they refuse to release it then if not warranty related? Of course it won't stop me but it will stop the other 99% of people who don't know anything about power electronics. Let's be honest, there's no IP to protect in the header files, none of their time and effort to protect and that's all they'd need to release.
A lot of the technical problems were actually caused by their theft. The fact that you are advocating so hard for criminals is very suspicious indeed.

It's not legal. Full stop.

john61ct   100 GW

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Re: FLIPSKY new 20s 100A tiny controller (vesc based)

Post by john61ct » Jan 17 2022 7:38pm


b264 wrote: Full stop.
Man I am on your side with this, but really that's enough.

People are free to choose evil, and most do.

A monthly reminder is fine, but constant harping does no good


mxlemming   10 kW

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Re: FLIPSKY new 20s 100A tiny controller (vesc based)

Post by mxlemming » Jan 18 2022 2:59am

b264 wrote:
Jan 17 2022 7:03pm

A lot of the technical problems were actually caused by their theft.
This is an important one.

What are the technical issues we (users) should be aware of and what's their cause?

Does it cause safety issues? Instability? Damage?
Hold my beer while I divide by zero :flame:

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