electrifying a cannondale bad boy 700

Show off your E-bike creation here.
e-cannon   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 45
Joined: Oct 05 2009 6:03am

electrifying a cannondale bad boy 700

Post by e-cannon » Oct 05 2009 6:18am

Hi there.
Sorry my English I am from Switzerland.
I just finished my e-bike project. It did last longer than expected, but now it is finished and riding my bike really rocks.
The concept:
I just wanted a bike of my choice to be electrified. I did not want a front hub so I had to find another place for the battery than a rear rack because of the improper weight distribution. And I did not want to see much of the wiring. So the battery had to be somewhere in the bicycle frame. And in a case. I decided to buy an ezee-kit from http://www.ebikes.ca and so I did. Thanks to Justin at this place for all the answering on my noob-questions about electricity.
Then I bought a cannondale bad boy:
01_cannondale_bad_boy.jpg
01_cannondale_bad_boy.jpg (67.15 KiB) Viewed 19561 times
Before the bicycle was assembled by my dealer (I had to wait about 2 weeks) I just made an exact drawing from the frame geometry in my dealers shop. Cannondale would not give me a CAD drawing of the frame geometry. I asked.
02_drawing_from_frame.jpg
02_drawing_from_frame.jpg (77.28 KiB) Viewed 19554 times
Then I made an 1:1 Autocad drawing of the project (I am an architect. So no problems here):
03_autocad.jpg
03_autocad.jpg (84.54 KiB) Viewed 20324 times
Of course I verified the design in 3dsmax (what we do with all our projects). I had a low poly 3d model of another bike which I adapted to the original frame geometry. Good enough for an impression.
04_3dsmax.jpg
04_3dsmax.jpg (83.33 KiB) Viewed 20342 times
I then spent some time in fibreglass forums until I thought I knew enough. Then I started with modeling the form out of styrofoam (mainly used to insulate buildings).
05_form1.jpg
05_form1.jpg (90.12 KiB) Viewed 19539 times
Some priming & grinding:
06_form2.jpg
06_form2.jpg (83.15 KiB) Viewed 19524 times
Epoxy over it so the separating agent would not destroy the styrofoam. Once again verifying the form...
07_form3_epoxy.jpg
07_form3_epoxy.jpg (79.01 KiB) Viewed 19506 times
I placed those strong inserts where the case will be connected to the bicycle frame. Just to be sure.
08_form4_inserts.jpg
08_form4_inserts.jpg (73.55 KiB) Viewed 19506 times
Put some separating agent on the thing. Ready to laminate:
09_start_laminating.jpg
09_start_laminating.jpg (87.33 KiB) Viewed 19492 times
Laminating in process. I do not want to do this again. It's so toxic (endless-sphere?).
10_laminating.jpg
10_laminating.jpg (108.46 KiB) Viewed 19491 times
Last edited by e-cannon on Oct 05 2009 10:25am, edited 2 times in total.

e-cannon   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 45
Joined: Oct 05 2009 6:03am

electrifying a cannondale bad boy 700

Post by e-cannon » Oct 05 2009 7:19am

After about 24 hours: Cutting out. First contact with this really strong material. You need tools for metal editing to deal with fibreglass.
11_cutting_opening.jpg
11_cutting_opening.jpg (95.34 KiB) Viewed 19474 times
Arghh...Done...
12_opening_done.jpg
12_opening_done.jpg (102.71 KiB) Viewed 19467 times
Now getting out this blue stuff (2 hours).
13_getting_out_the_stuff.jpg
13_getting_out_the_stuff.jpg (109.29 KiB) Viewed 19453 times
14_done.jpg
14_done.jpg (72.79 KiB) Viewed 19444 times
Now the thing with fibreglass is: if you don't bake it it will melt at a temperature point of about 60 to 70 °Celsius. While I wanted to place the battery inside the case and also wanted to ride my bike in summer I had to build an oven to bake the case for a minimum of 10 hours at the wanted resistance temperature minus 30°Celsius. Means: If I bake it 10 hours at 100° Celsius it will be stable up to about 130 °Celsius and so on.
I found an old metal corpus on the attic I transformed into an oven. The rest of the styrofoam for insulating, three 100W bulbs for heating. And a joint thermometer for measuring.
15_oven_for_baking.jpg
15_oven_for_baking.jpg (87.21 KiB) Viewed 19440 times
16_oven_for_baking_closed.jpg
16_oven_for_baking_closed.jpg (80.37 KiB) Viewed 19434 times
My temperature curve. By the way: you should not rise the temperature to fast (10°Celsius per hour). I got up to about 80°. Enough for my needs I hope. Means stable till about 110°.
17_temperature_curve.jpg
17_temperature_curve.jpg (68.99 KiB) Viewed 19431 times

e-cannon   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 45
Joined: Oct 05 2009 6:03am

electrifying a cannondale bad boy 700

Post by e-cannon » Oct 05 2009 8:02am

After baking I had to do a lot of grinding, drilling, preparing the electronic parts by soldering water proof connections and so on. And of course the finish of the case. I will not go in detail by now. Look at the images.
18_electronics1.jpg
18_electronics1.jpg (89.57 KiB) Viewed 19421 times
The big connector you see here is for the 3 motor phase leads. It's water prove just in case. When I have to dismount my rear wheel for repairing I just disconnect this one and bring it out of the case through that big hole you see in the picture above.
19_electronics2.jpg
19_electronics2.jpg (81.73 KiB) Viewed 19412 times
20_electronics3.jpg
20_electronics3.jpg (86.08 KiB) Viewed 19403 times
With the lock I can start the system. And also close of course.
21_electronics4.jpg
21_electronics4.jpg (80.01 KiB) Viewed 19397 times
In here will sit the battery:
22_accu_holding.jpg
22_accu_holding.jpg (79.58 KiB) Viewed 19388 times
I made some mods on the battery itself for better handling.
23_accu_mod.jpg
23_accu_mod.jpg (70.18 KiB) Viewed 19384 times
Mounting the battery:
24_inserting_accu.jpg
24_inserting_accu.jpg (102.76 KiB) Viewed 19380 times
There is some space left for carrying something (like the charger unit).
25_fastening_accu.jpg
25_fastening_accu.jpg (104.89 KiB) Viewed 19369 times
26_connecting_power.jpg
26_connecting_power.jpg (90.52 KiB) Viewed 19362 times
Closing the case:
27_closing_case.jpg
27_closing_case.jpg (96.74 KiB) Viewed 19359 times
Last edited by e-cannon on Oct 05 2009 8:25am, edited 1 time in total.

e-cannon   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 45
Joined: Oct 05 2009 6:03am

electrifying a cannondale bad boy 700

Post by e-cannon » Oct 05 2009 8:12am

Finally...
28_case_closed.jpg
28_case_closed.jpg (100.05 KiB) Viewed 19353 times
29_cycle_analyst.jpg
29_cycle_analyst.jpg (59.07 KiB) Viewed 19347 times
30_cycle_analyst_switch_button.jpg
30_cycle_analyst_switch_button.jpg (68.74 KiB) Viewed 19341 times
31_front_view.jpg
31_front_view.jpg (83.64 KiB) Viewed 19337 times
32_left_view.jpg
32_left_view.jpg (98.59 KiB) Viewed 19447 times
33_right_view.jpg
33_right_view.jpg (102.8 KiB) Viewed 19333 times

e-cannon   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 45
Joined: Oct 05 2009 6:03am

Re: electrifying a cannondale bad boy 700

Post by e-cannon » Oct 05 2009 8:38am

Thanks for your welcoming..
No. The epoxy is also part of the fibreglas (its the so called matrix). Its just the separating agent (something like wax) which would destroy the styrofoam. And you need some separating agent because it makes it much easier to get the laminated thing off the form...

e-cannon   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 45
Joined: Oct 05 2009 6:03am

Re: electrifying a cannondale bad boy 700

Post by e-cannon » Oct 05 2009 9:04am

There are many products you can use.
I think you have to find a shop in your country which is specialized in composite technology.
I have all the epoxy stuff from a Swiss online shop:
http://www.suterkunststoffe.ch/pdf/prod ... rsicht.pdf
pages 132/133
I used "SCS-Wachs-Trennmittel" on page 132. Worked perfectly.
And the (German) forum I got my knowledge from: http://www.r-g.de/

User avatar
karma   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 675
Joined: Dec 18 2007 6:02am
Location: hamilton,ontario
Contact:

Re: electrifying a cannondale bad boy 700

Post by karma » Oct 05 2009 9:30am

nice work :wink:

User avatar
Drunkskunk   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 7202
Joined: Apr 14 2007 11:37am
Location: Dallas, Texas. U.S.A.

Re: electrifying a cannondale bad boy 700

Post by Drunkskunk » Oct 05 2009 11:49am

WOW


Speachless...




:mrgreen:
Buy the ticket, take the ride.
Monster Bike:http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=38667

dnmun   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 16190
Joined: Jun 09 2008 1:32pm
Location: portland, or and loveland, co

Re: electrifying a cannondale bad boy 700

Post by dnmun » Oct 05 2009 12:42pm

way cool. how did you make the side panel?

this has gotta be the most top notch without going over the top.

very applicable to other bikes, was it too large to fit inside an electric oven? now i am gonna watch CL for super large electric ovens, big enuff for the molds to fit inside. let it live outside under the woodshed to make them.

if you did not need access later, you could put in a lot of mold release, then cut it right down the middle or maybe leave the foam in place and dig out a cavity to mount the cells or pack, then close it and attach the two sides around the perimeter with tape, attach straps or brackets with mounts to strong points molded into the case.

way cool, very inspiring.

User avatar
nicobie   10 MW

10 MW
Posts: 2484
Joined: Aug 07 2008 1:48pm
Location: Central Coast CA,USA

Re: electrifying a cannondale bad boy 700

Post by nicobie » Oct 05 2009 1:19pm

I think that is just about the nicest battery box I have ever seen.

You even have room for a little boost battery :twisted:
Take it easy... but take it. (Woody Guthrie)

my eTownie build thread: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=23701
Magazine article https://www.electricbike.com/nicks-etownie/

e-cannon   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 45
Joined: Oct 05 2009 6:03am

Re: electrifying a cannondale bad boy 700

Post by e-cannon » Oct 06 2009 2:33am

thanks for all the nice reactions..
@dnmun:
yes, too large to fit in a standard electric oven : )

the side panel is completely flat so I decided to make it out of an acrylic glass plate (3mm).The advantage here was that I could hold it over the opening to precisely draw the shape on it because of its transparency. However I run in minor problems getting the finish on the surface (there was some chemical reaction I did not understand...).
The closures on both sides - the case and the side panel - were formed out of an PVC profile, which I could heat deform to get the curvatures:
profile.jpg
profile.jpg (44.77 KiB) Viewed 19070 times
Front part just filled with glue (a bit primitive, but worked). You see the tiny cracks in acrylic glass? They happened when I was cleaning the acrylic glass with aceton before applying the primer. Strange. And I don't care.
side_panel.jpg
side_panel.jpg (79.33 KiB) Viewed 19066 times
By the way: The only glue I used was a two-part adhesive. This one is the flagship of this huge glue company UHU. Take a look at the specs. I always raised the temperature with a tiny radiant heater up to 50° to 60° Celsius where I thought it was important...
uhu_endfest.jpg
uhu_endfest.jpg (57.91 KiB) Viewed 19065 times
sorry bad picture...
uhu_endfest_specs.jpg
uhu_endfest_specs.jpg (140.7 KiB) Viewed 19065 times
Last edited by e-cannon on Oct 06 2009 10:59am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
biohazardman   100 kW

100 kW
Posts: 1340
Joined: Jun 29 2008 5:28pm
Location: Portland,Oregon USA

Re: electrifying a cannondale bad boy 700

Post by biohazardman » Oct 06 2009 5:01am

Looks like quite a bit of work and it came out very nice so was definitely worth it. Appreciate the DIY it will be helpful to some I am sure. Thanks for the post.
Build it like your life depends on it. Cuz it does.
Golden Motor Schwinn first build http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?topic=279.0
Giant BMC build http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... &start=390
Short ride vids http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 60#p321703

User avatar
adrian_sm   10 MW

10 MW
Posts: 2404
Joined: Feb 23 2009 12:54am
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: electrifying a cannondale bad boy 700

Post by adrian_sm » Oct 06 2009 8:01am

Awesome job. Very nice indeed. I was toying with the idea of a sheet metal enclosure, but now that I have seen this I might have changed my mind.

How is the side panel held in place?
Build #1 ~28kg ~ 700w Avanti Hardtail Crystalyte 408, 48V10Ah Headway. ~5500 kms to date. (retired)
Build #2 ~30kg ~2000w Giant AC Dually Crystalyte 408, 48V10Ah Headway + 6s10Ah LiPo = 70V. ~15000 kms to date [SOLD]
Build #3 ~13kg ~2000w Commuter Booster <1kg Friction Drive
Build #??? ~21kg ~1500w Adrian's Bafang BPM Hardtail MTB Bafang BPM code12, 15s LiPo, ~40kph, ~30kms

jetguy   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 23
Joined: Sep 09 2009 8:49pm

Re: electrifying a cannondale bad boy 700

Post by jetguy » Oct 06 2009 9:57am

You really did a very nice job! makes me glad to know that people (you) can research topics and learn from each other. you started w/ little or no composite experience, and self taught off of things on the internet. you even built your own oven!! then the impressive ramp-up and cure of your cook along with a plot is really very cool! again very nice work. you should be proud of your self. i hope you get alot of enjoyment from your bike for many many years.

p.s. i used to be an aircraft mechanic for over 10 years and specialized in advanced aerospace composites (carbon fiber/fiberglass/metal bonding)for most of my career.

e-cannon   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 45
Joined: Oct 05 2009 6:03am

Re: electrifying a cannondale bad boy 700

Post by e-cannon » Oct 06 2009 10:15am

@ adrian_sm
It's just the triangle geometry: when closed the lock cylinder fits exactly in the hole and blocks any movement in ride direction and the profiles on the two longer sides of the triangle are then interlocked so the only method to open the case then would be brute force... :evil:
side_panel_construction.jpg
side_panel_construction.jpg (39.17 KiB) Viewed 17595 times
The wet weather concept is that the water flows inside the profile on the case itself, which goes completely all around the opening. In case water gets in the case it will hopefully flow down to the very lowest point where I provided a hole. There are a couple of other holes on the downside and the rear side of the case to assure some airflow to cool the battery and mainly the motor controller...
Last edited by e-cannon on Oct 06 2009 10:34am, edited 1 time in total.

e-cannon   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 45
Joined: Oct 05 2009 6:03am

Re: electrifying a cannondale bad boy 700

Post by e-cannon » Oct 06 2009 10:26am

@jetguy
thanks! I am a bit proud but MORE happy that it is finished by now...

User avatar
Zoot Katz   1 MW

1 MW
Posts: 1543
Joined: Jun 21 2008 6:34pm
Location: Vancouver, BC Canada

Re: electrifying a cannondale bad boy 700

Post by Zoot Katz » Oct 06 2009 12:58pm

That's got to be the cleanest build I've seen yet. It's gorgeous!
Now I want to tear apart my bike and start over.

Nice work. Bravo!

User avatar
317537   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 939
Joined: Oct 19 2008 2:00pm

Re: electrifying a cannondale bad boy 700

Post by 317537 » Oct 06 2009 1:10pm

Good stuff. Looks real pro when finished. I did fibre glassing some time ago, I hated it.

Seeing this thread i will probably use it to house some lithiums myself. Very versitile and very informative thread, thank you for sharing.
Leslie

User avatar
adrian_sm   10 MW

10 MW
Posts: 2404
Joined: Feb 23 2009 12:54am
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: electrifying a cannondale bad boy 700

Post by adrian_sm » Oct 06 2009 7:39pm

e-cannon wrote:@ adrian_sm
It's just the triangle geometry: when closed the lock cylinder fits exactly in the hole and blocks any movement in ride direction and the profiles on the two longer sides of the triangle are then interlocked so the only method to open the case then would be brute force... :evil:
Cool.
So the lock barrel somehow gets out of the way when you remove the side panel? Does it come out into you hand, or retract back into the enclosure?
e-cannon wrote: The wet weather concept is that the water flows inside the profile on the case itself, which goes completely all around the opening. In case water gets in the case it will hopefully flow down to the very lowest point where I provided a hole. There are a couple of other holes on the downside and the rear side of the case to assure some airflow to cool the battery and mainly the motor controller...
Ahhh. That makes more sense now. Should work nicely.

Any issues with heat buildup? I was playing with ideas of allowing airflow through my battery box, while avoid water ingress, but was not sure if a really need it. I have never had my batteries or controller feel hot. With my super accurate "calibrated" hand, it is hard to tell if they are more than a few degrees above ambient.
Build #1 ~28kg ~ 700w Avanti Hardtail Crystalyte 408, 48V10Ah Headway. ~5500 kms to date. (retired)
Build #2 ~30kg ~2000w Giant AC Dually Crystalyte 408, 48V10Ah Headway + 6s10Ah LiPo = 70V. ~15000 kms to date [SOLD]
Build #3 ~13kg ~2000w Commuter Booster <1kg Friction Drive
Build #??? ~21kg ~1500w Adrian's Bafang BPM Hardtail MTB Bafang BPM code12, 15s LiPo, ~40kph, ~30kms

BLUESTREAK   1 kW

1 kW
Posts: 469
Joined: May 10 2009 1:53pm

Re: electrifying a cannondale bad boy 700

Post by BLUESTREAK » Oct 06 2009 10:09pm

BEAUTYFULL WORK, you are to be admired for such thoughtful work. I have seen a lot of things fabricated in my 65 years and this rates in the top tier. always keep this in your mind. DO the best job possible at anything you set your mind to build. :D :D :D :D :mrgreen:

e-cannon   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 45
Joined: Oct 05 2009 6:03am

Re: electrifying a cannondale bad boy 700

Post by e-cannon » Oct 07 2009 5:18am

@ BLUESTREAK:
Thanks! :D

@ adrian_sm
the lock barrel retracts. its a furniture lock that could be locked in both positions.
lock_drawing.jpg
lock_drawing.jpg (73.44 KiB) Viewed 14536 times
using these components:
lock.jpg
lock.jpg (3.48 KiB) Viewed 14155 times
switch1.jpg
switch1.jpg (5.2 KiB) Viewed 14049 times
switch2.jpg
switch2.jpg (3.06 KiB) Viewed 14045 times

e-cannon   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 45
Joined: Oct 05 2009 6:03am

Re: electrifying a cannondale bad boy 700

Post by e-cannon » Oct 07 2009 6:31am

adrian_sm wrote:Any issues with heat buildup? I was playing with ideas of allowing airflow through my battery box, while avoid water ingress, but was not sure if a really need it. I have never had my batteries or controller feel hot. With my super accurate "calibrated" hand, it is hard to tell if they are more than a few degrees above ambient.
I read in the manual that comes with the ezee kit:

"If you plan to ride in hot weather, without pedaling up
steep hills, etc., mount your controller outside of the
battery bag to prevent thermal shutdown."

My controller is mounted with some spacing around it so its maybe not comparable with bag surrounding it but I just decided to drill the holes. They are placed in the middle axis of the case and the bicycle frame so I don't think there will be a direct water ingress. The most critical point is maybe the short end of the triangle where the side panel just overlaps the profile but an eventual water ingress there won't hurt anything...

User avatar
adrian_sm   10 MW

10 MW
Posts: 2404
Joined: Feb 23 2009 12:54am
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: electrifying a cannondale bad boy 700

Post by adrian_sm » Oct 07 2009 6:25pm

e-cannon wrote: @ adrian_sm
the lock barrel retracts. its a furniture lock that could be locked in both positions.
Image
Very neat. I like how you have integrated the enclosure lock with the main power switch. Makes for a very clean look.
Does that mean when it is powered on the side panel might be able to slide off while you are riding.

Sorry for all the questions. But I have been inspired, and am now thinking of tackling something similar myself.
Build #1 ~28kg ~ 700w Avanti Hardtail Crystalyte 408, 48V10Ah Headway. ~5500 kms to date. (retired)
Build #2 ~30kg ~2000w Giant AC Dually Crystalyte 408, 48V10Ah Headway + 6s10Ah LiPo = 70V. ~15000 kms to date [SOLD]
Build #3 ~13kg ~2000w Commuter Booster <1kg Friction Drive
Build #??? ~21kg ~1500w Adrian's Bafang BPM Hardtail MTB Bafang BPM code12, 15s LiPo, ~40kph, ~30kms

e-cannon   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 45
Joined: Oct 05 2009 6:03am

Re: electrifying a cannondale bad boy 700

Post by e-cannon » Oct 08 2009 1:38am

adrian_sm wrote:Does that mean when it is powered on the side panel might be able to slide off while you are riding.
no. while riding the lock is always in "pos. closed". it's a push-button switch (push once - ON, push again - OFF). So starting the bike goes like: put in key, rotate, push down, pull back (you do not actually have to pull 'cause there is a spring in the lock), rotate back, pull out key.
if you rotate it back after "push down" you can pull out the key in the "pos. open" , the barrel will remain there and you can then open the case (with sometimes ON, sometimes OFF system, then I just turn off the battery on its own switch).

e-cannon   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 45
Joined: Oct 05 2009 6:03am

Re: electrifying a cannondale bad boy 700

Post by e-cannon » Oct 08 2009 4:07am

adrian_sm wrote:Sorry for all the questions. But I have been inspired, and am now thinking of tackling something similar myself.
no prob. I would like to expect something like that: :D
T173_1_052i.jpg
T173_1_052i.jpg (73.66 KiB) Viewed 14060 times

Post Reply