R Martin: R10

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R Martin: R10

Postby Jerome Daoust » Tue Feb 17, 2009 1:25 pm

Does someone have experience with this model? R Martin: R10.
Parallel discussion on Tidal Force.

R Martin wrote:Powerful mountain bike style electric bicycle from R Martin.
The "R" series bikes are our top models designed to be comfortable and long lasting.
The R10 uses a patented crank motor design. This design allows us to get more climbing power with lower battery usage. This also allows for easy changing and removal of both the front and rear wheels.
The crank motor enables the bikes gears to be used with the motor. This allows you to downshift for hills and to shift up to higher gears as you gain speed. This feature is exclusive to our "R" models.
The R10 is built with full suspension and disk brakes. Quality components make the R10 easy to ride.
Lithium batteries combined with the low power consumption of the crank motor allow you to travel farther.
A 36 volt, 8 amp hour lithium battery pack provides plenty of power for even the toughest hills.
Range is 25+ miles.

Specifications:
Mountain Bike Style
7-Speed Shimano TX31 derailleur
26"x1.95 Double wall alloy wheels
Alloy frame
Full suspension
20 mph motor
Battery: 36V-8Ah lithium battery pack
Smart charger included
Motor: 200W brushless crank motor
Pedelec and full automatic twist throttle
Total weight 60 LBS
Stainless steel spokes
Front and rear disk brakes
I sent the company an email asking if I can purchase an extra battery so I can swap out the depleted one during a ride.
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Availability + Can get a spare battery

Postby Jerome Daoust » Tue Feb 17, 2009 6:08 pm

Got a reply from Randall at R Martin, saying:
- The bikes will arrive in late March.
- You can purchase a spare battery.
I asked:
- If this is a totally new model.
- How easy it is to swap the battery during a ride, to replace the depleted one. No tool needed I hope.
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Re: R Martin: R10

Postby dogman dan » Wed Feb 18, 2009 3:17 pm

Nice concept, but I kinda think that motor better be pretty waterproof, where it's mounted. But it is very nice looking, and maybe just a fairing on the motor would cure the water from the front wheel. 200 watts is pretty weak for most of us on this forum too. I often feel like the wierdo here, running a mere 36v.
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Beach cruiser converted to long tail. viewtopic.php?f=6&t=67049&p=1045572&hilit=Longtail+beach+cruiser#p1045572
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Re: R Martin: R10

Postby Russell » Wed Feb 18, 2009 4:06 pm

I can only sustain about 150W for prolonged periods so a 200W motor isn't that bad if it's transmitting that power through the gears. Also although it's "rated" 200W I'm sure it probably puts out more than that in practice. For example my "250W" hub motor draws up to 550W from the battery with its 15A controller for perhaps 400W at the wheel. However the biggest problem I have with the bike, especially given it's off-road styling, is its limited gearing range with just the one ring up front. If ridden strictly on the road with motor power assisting it may not be a problem but if you run out of battery power or hit the trails it could be a different story. The limited gearing is also an issue since with the motor power feeding through the chain you could really make use of those low gears!

-R
Jeep Comanche Trekking Bike w/YOUE geared motor, 42 lbs + 15 lb rear trunk bag w/12S 16Ah LiPo battery, tools, etc., 21A controller, 700 x 40C tires. 27 MPH.


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Re: R Martin: R10

Postby dogman dan » Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:27 pm

I agree, 200 watts geared is not so small where 200 watts direct drive is. But on this forum, there are a lot a guys in the 2000 watt club.
For those that still don't know, I work online, for E-bikekit.com

Frankenbike longtail
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... cing+betty.

bolt on longtail viewtopic.php?f=6&t=74584

The mixte long tail. viewtopic.php?f=6&t=74384

Beach cruiser converted to long tail. viewtopic.php?f=6&t=67049&p=1045572&hilit=Longtail+beach+cruiser#p1045572
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Re: R Martin: R10

Postby Russell » Thu Feb 19, 2009 4:23 pm

dogman wrote:I agree, 200 watts geared is not so small where 200 watts direct drive is. But on this forum, there are a lot a guys in the 2000 watt club.


This forum isn't exactly the mainstream demographic that bike manufacturers are targeting their products for either. The bike manufacturers also must stay within the law regarding top speed and power which folks here don't feel the need to do. The bike looks pretty attractive for its features and price though I would want double front chainrings or at least a smaller front chainring with a wide 11-34 9-speed cassette.

-R
Jeep Comanche Trekking Bike w/YOUE geared motor, 42 lbs + 15 lb rear trunk bag w/12S 16Ah LiPo battery, tools, etc., 21A controller, 700 x 40C tires. 27 MPH.


My other E-Bikes: Nashbar Steel Flatbar
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Re: R Martin: R10

Postby dogman dan » Thu Feb 19, 2009 6:40 pm

No such thing as too wide a span of gear ratios. 8) I've been looking at my EV global and thinking the same thing, It's geared low enough, but a single front chainring is pretty limiting.
For those that still don't know, I work online, for E-bikekit.com

Frankenbike longtail
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... cing+betty.

bolt on longtail viewtopic.php?f=6&t=74584

The mixte long tail. viewtopic.php?f=6&t=74384

Beach cruiser converted to long tail. viewtopic.php?f=6&t=67049&p=1045572&hilit=Longtail+beach+cruiser#p1045572
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Re: R Martin: R10

Postby marks » Fri Feb 20, 2009 12:40 am

If I could buy that bike in Australia for $1000 to $1200 I would jump at the opportunity
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Re: R Martin: R10

Postby boostjuice » Wed Mar 18, 2009 12:34 am

marks wrote:If I could buy that bike in Australia for $1000 to $1200 I would jump at the opportunity


You can, just under a different brandname. Same factory.
http://www.panzer.com.au/sport2.shtml

They were going on eBay for around $1100 last year. Email the company. It appears they no longer list them on eBay.
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Re: R Martin: R10

Postby dnmun » Wed Mar 18, 2009 10:54 am

is this a merida drive in a suspended mtb frame? 200W at 24V but how much at 60V?
driven bottom bracket is what optibike has going for it, why merida is so cool, anybody know if this is from merida?
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Re: R Martin: R10

Postby marks » Wed Mar 18, 2009 5:40 pm

Thanks Boost, I have emailed them!
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Re: R Martin: R10

Postby marks » Thu Mar 19, 2009 6:54 pm

Ok, apparently $1300 then another $150 for delivery as it weighs 33kg's!

That 30% more (or so) than $1100 so getting a bit expensive.

33kg's seems a bit heavy too?
Are there any detailed online reviews around?
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Re: R Martin: R10

Postby boostjuice » Thu Mar 19, 2009 9:15 pm

marks wrote:Ok, apparently $1300 then another $150 for delivery as it weighs 33kg's!

That 30% more (or so) than $1100 so getting a bit expensive.

33kg's seems a bit heavy too?
Are there any detailed online reviews around?


They had them on eBay bidding start price at $1100 or 'Buy it Now' $1400. They often went with only one bid at $1100. Maybe try bartering?

Sort of a review; http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... ilit=catic
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Re: R Martin: R10

Postby Russell » Fri Oct 16, 2009 4:35 pm

Somebody buy one of these and report back, OK? :P

-R
Jeep Comanche Trekking Bike w/YOUE geared motor, 42 lbs + 15 lb rear trunk bag w/12S 16Ah LiPo battery, tools, etc., 21A controller, 700 x 40C tires. 27 MPH.


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Re: R Martin: R10

Postby elec123 » Sat Oct 17, 2009 2:23 am

Iv'e got the R10 and it is great. It is amazing how much power the crank motor delivers at only 200 watts. It is way more powerful than the hub motors bikes I have had in the past. One of the best things is that you can use your gears like a transmission. In 1st gear I can climb any hills I have encountered easily. You have to shift up to go faster. It reachs 20 in 7th gear the way it comes.

I wanted to go faster so I called the support folks and they said they could order a larger chainring. I also had them order me a better chain guard for the larger ring. I can get up to about 24-25 now. These guys are really helpful. The parts were around $50. Well worth it.

They also offer a battery pack upgrade now to the 10ah from the 8ah for $80 more on a new bike. It's li-poly and is supposed to take 800-1000 charges. I may buy one later on but I get enough range now - 25+ miles.

The bike cruises so easlily in the highest pedal assist setting that I really don't use the throttle. You feel it kick in after just a couple of cranks and you can get up to top speed in only a few seconds. It is cool.

The web site changed from www.rmartinbikes.com to www.electricbikedistributor.com. Either addresss will get you there.

This bike is well worth the price in my opinion.

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Re: R Martin: R10

Postby Vim » Sat Oct 17, 2009 11:24 pm

elec123 wrote:I wanted to go faster so I called the support folks and they said they could order a larger chainring.


What is the tooth count on the bigger chainring, and the tooth count on the cassette gears?
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Re: R Martin: R10

Postby Russell » Mon Oct 19, 2009 12:33 am

elec123 wrote:Iv'e got the R10 and it is great. It is amazing how much power the crank motor delivers at only 200 watts. It is way more powerful than the hub motors bikes I have had in the past. One of the best things is that you can use your gears like a transmission. In 1st gear I can climb any hills I have encountered easily. You have to shift up to go faster. It reachs 20 in 7th gear the way it comes.

I wanted to go faster so I called the support folks and they said they could order a larger chainring. I also had them order me a better chain guard for the larger ring. I can get up to about 24-25 now. These guys are really helpful. The parts were around $50. Well worth it.

They also offer a battery pack upgrade now to the 10ah from the 8ah for $80 more on a new bike. It's li-poly and is supposed to take 800-1000 charges. I may buy one later on but I get enough range now - 25+ miles.

The bike cruises so easlily in the highest pedal assist setting that I really don't use the throttle. You feel it kick in after just a couple of cranks and you can get up to top speed in only a few seconds. It is cool.

The web site changed from http://www.rmartinbikes.com to http://www.electricbikedistributor.com. Either addresss will get you there.

This bike is well worth the price in my opinion.

elecman


It sounds like a neat set-up. So you say you can use it without touching the throttle; is the assist level adjustable? Is there a control console of some type? Can the throttle be used without pedaling? Is there a freewheel in the crankset? Do you know the approximate "Q-factor" for the crankset (The Q-factor is the distance from the outside of one crank arm to the outside of the other crank arm, where the pedals mount)? I can't pedal efficiently if the Q-factor gets too wide so it's my main objection to most bottom bracket type motor systems like the Cyclone.

-R
Jeep Comanche Trekking Bike w/YOUE geared motor, 42 lbs + 15 lb rear trunk bag w/12S 16Ah LiPo battery, tools, etc., 21A controller, 700 x 40C tires. 27 MPH.


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Re: R Martin: R10

Postby neoplasticity » Mon Oct 19, 2009 8:23 pm

elec123 wrote:Iv'e got the R10 and it is great. It is amazing how much power the crank motor delivers at only 200 watts. It is way more powerful than the hub motors bikes I have had in the past. One of the best things is that you can use your gears like a transmission. In 1st gear I can climb any hills I have encountered easily. You have to shift up to go faster. It reachs 20 in 7th gear the way it comes.

I wanted to go faster so I called the support folks and they said they could order a larger chainring. I also had them order me a better chain guard for the larger ring. I can get up to about 24-25 now. These guys are really helpful. The parts were around $50. Well worth it.

They also offer a battery pack upgrade now to the 10ah from the 8ah for $80 more on a new bike. It's li-poly and is supposed to take 800-1000 charges. I may buy one later on but I get enough range now - 25+ miles.

The bike cruises so easlily in the highest pedal assist setting that I really don't use the throttle. You feel it kick in after just a couple of cranks and you can get up to top speed in only a few seconds. It is cool.

The web site changed from http://www.rmartinbikes.com to http://www.electricbikedistributor.com. Either addresss will get you there.

This bike is well worth the price in my opinion.

elecman



I have to say that whenever someone posts a one sided positive review as their first post and also updates us on website url changes, it sounds suspiciously like a shill but i think that the design is intriguing and i hope it is actually a good bike. if anyone else buys this buy I'm very interested in a impartial review.
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Re: R Martin: R10

Postby mikefish » Wed Oct 21, 2009 12:05 pm

very one sided review...according to that review, its the bike of the century!

i asked about this bike on this forum, as it does look nice, and one would thing you could get more out of the small motor with the gears.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=11582

but in the end, the nice folks here steered me away from it, and i don't feel like they were wrong IMHO
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Re: R Martin: R10

Postby Russell » Wed Oct 21, 2009 12:22 pm

mikefish wrote:very one sided review...according to that review, its the bike of the century!

i asked about this bike on this forum, as it does look nice, and one would thing you could get more out of the small motor with the gears.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=11582

but in the end, the nice folks here steered me away from it, and i don't feel like they were wrong IMHO



...and NONE of the folks you listened to ever owned one :roll:


Yes Elec123's review was positive and it was his only post with no follow-up so no one should base a buying decision on it but it should also not be totally dismissed.

-R
Jeep Comanche Trekking Bike w/YOUE geared motor, 42 lbs + 15 lb rear trunk bag w/12S 16Ah LiPo battery, tools, etc., 21A controller, 700 x 40C tires. 27 MPH.


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Test ride and observations

Postby Jerome Daoust » Fri Oct 23, 2009 10:46 pm

I stopped by my local R martin bike reseller: Fresch Electric Bikes
Larry answered all my questions (I had lots) and gave as much time as I wanted to ride it.

My understanding is that it is a rebranded Catic, but that’s OK. All the observations are in the comments of the cells with little red corners (just hover your mouse over them) in this decision matrix but I will give you some of the highlights here…
- It is as silent as a geared hub motor. I expected more noise from its motorized bottom bracket.
- The motor is underpowered at 200 W (nominal) with peak of about 400 W. I wish it was at least 350 W nominal. Despite this you can still climb (slowly) a decent hill thanks to the power running through the gears.
- It is slower than advertised, only getting 16.7 mph on motor alone, 17 mph with light pedaling. At 19 mph the motor cuts out in 7th gear.
- Suspension is well matched front and back, good enough to absorb minor road irregularities.
- The rear light can be made to blink.
- Overall the frame felt rigid and gave a solid steering feel.
- It is not expensive, and I see it as one of the best value in that category.
- You can upgrade the standard 8 Ah to a10 Ah for an extra $80. And a spare 10 Ah battery will run you about $400 (price not finalized yet). The battery locks with a key, but that’s all that key does.
- Take the battery (10.2 lb for the 8 Ah) and seat+post (1.8 lb) off, and it weighs 52 lb for transport on your bike carrier.
- Combined pedal-assist and half-grip twist throttle. The level of pedal assist (always active) has 3 levels, set with a switch. Pedal-assist power does not cut out immediately when pedal force is stopped: Don't like that, but no big deal.
- If you take feet off pedals they will turn: No big deal.
- Warranty is 1 year on everything.
- Both front and rear wheels have quick-releases.
- This reseller (Fresch Electric Bikes) adds a front fender.

Summary: Great value for the price, and if it had a true 20 mph on motor alone, it would be an easy purchase decision.

Large picture of the bike on the R Martin website.

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Re: R Martin: R10

Postby Russell » Fri Oct 23, 2009 10:58 pm

Jerome,

How did you go about testing top speed? Since the motor drives throught he gears the top speed might NOT be in the highest gear but rather the gear which allows the motor to run at its peak power level. Frankly I can achieve 16.7 mph on less than 150W of MY power so I would expect a 200W motor with 400W of peak power to achieve close to 25 mph in the right gear, which is something I can do on my own as well.

-R
Jeep Comanche Trekking Bike w/YOUE geared motor, 42 lbs + 15 lb rear trunk bag w/12S 16Ah LiPo battery, tools, etc., 21A controller, 700 x 40C tires. 27 MPH.


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Re: R Martin: R10

Postby Jerome Daoust » Fri Oct 23, 2009 11:02 pm

Russell wrote:Jerome,
How did you go about testing top speed? Since the motor drives throught he gears the top speed might NOT be in the highest gear but rather the gear which allows the motor to run at its peak power level. Frankly I can achieve 16.7 mph on less than 150W of MY power so I would expect a 200W motor with 400W of peak power to achieve close to 25 mph in the right gear, which is something I can do on my own as well.
Good question.
Aside from 7th gear (highest), I also tried 6th gear and it was worse, so I did not try 5th or lower.
Also I was lowering my shoulders (to reduce frontal area) when trying to achieve that max speed.
I'm 5'10" and 170 lb, so a "standard" body shape.
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Re: R Martin: R10

Postby neoplasticity » Mon Oct 26, 2009 9:17 pm

Jerome,

thanks for the review. glad to hear that its actually pretty good. couple of questions.

1. what's the speed you should reach with hard pedaling on a straight surface. basically is the thing geared so that I could sustain 25mph on a flat with moderate pedaling?

2. if you lost battery power completely, is the motor a big drag on pedaling or does it then behave like a regular bike that happens to weigh 60 lbs?

3. how much of an assist does the thing give you up hills? i.e. could a reasonable fit person sustain 17 mph up a hill that would normally be taken at say 10mph?

thanks

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Re: R Martin: R10

Postby Jerome Daoust » Mon Oct 26, 2009 9:41 pm

neoplasticity wrote:1. what's the speed you should reach with hard pedaling on a straight surface. basically is the thing geared so that I could sustain 25mph on a flat with moderate pedaling?
2. if you lost battery power completely, is the motor a big drag on pedaling or does it then behave like a regular bike that happens to weigh 60 lbs?
3. how much of an assist does the thing give you up hills? i.e. could a reasonable fit person sustain 17 mph up a hill that would normally be taken at say 10mph?
Hi Steve,
1. Apparently the motor cutout can be disabled by removing the magnet on the rear wheel spoke. But I was already pedaling moderately hard to go past 19 mph. I doubt I could sustain 25 mph with the motor still helping (not disabled), but I don't have strong legs.
2. I did not pay attention to the drag with motor off, sorry.
3. I don't know if the motor can add 7mph for your 10 mph without-motor speed hill.

BTW, the motor and gear casing is a neat package, and seems serviceable with access plates to whatever is inside.
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