Controller mod

Hello all, I have a set up from e-bikekit.com, and want to make some modifications to it. I have already done a shunt mod to it, and am currently running it at 48v. I would like to run it at 60 or even 72v, but I think I will blow some of the circuitry. Can anyone tell me what size caps, mosfets, or anything else I might need in order to be able to run 60v+. Any advice would be much appreciated.

I'm not sure what mosfets it has, but the best thing to do unless someone else knows, is take the controller apart and see what everything it has. See what farad the caps are and replace those with the same farad but 100V versions. Right down what voltage regulator you have inside and see what resistors you have so you can replace them for 72V or 60V step down. So you will need some capacitors, resistors, maybe mosfets but I doubt it, and some more thermal paste. Take some pics so we can see exactly what you will need. My advice if you are not on a small budget is to just go with 72V... if the controller can handle it.

Thanks for the reply TMaster. So I got the controller all apart, and here is what I found. The caps (3) are 63v 470uF. I also saw (2) 25v 100uf, (2) 50v 47uF, and a 63v 100uF. The mosfets (9) are p75nf75. I found the data sheet online, and it says they are 75v .0095 ohm 80a-220. There are two big resistors one is 620ohm's +/- 5%, and the other is 200 ohm +/- 5%. I don't know what the voltage regulator looks like, but hopefully this info helps. I have a pic, but it is a little blurry. Let me know if I need to upload another. Thanks again for the help.

Wow you need better pics.

I belive you need to replace the 63v caps with 100V version of the same uf. So 4 of them total by what you say. The 25V caps are fine like they are im pretty dang sure. They run the other circuits that dont use the high voltage. I would need clearer and bigger pics to see. As for the 50V cap im not totally sure since this is a 36-48V setup controller. You can replace the 50V a 100V just to be safe without figuring it out. Also you need to make sure the caps will fit inside the controller and not rub on the inside of the housing. The 100V caps will be taller and wider. Check the specs and measure. I had to turn mine on the side to get them to fit. Here's my thread on my currentl modified controller: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=14756

I have the same mosfets and I was told they can handle 80V, but I only put a peak max of 74.5V into mine. I'd rather have the controller last. I'm not sure what type of battery you are running, but I would keep the peak volts under 80 for sure. If you are running SLA lead acids, get 5, 12V and 1, 6V of the same AH capacities to equal 66V nominal, and around 72 to 75 off the chargers. All the other types of cells are smaller and you can add 1 or 2 cells to get the voltage you want. As you can see below on my signature I am running 21S, 3 6S packs and 1 3S pack of A123.

The voltage regulator is the black mosfet looking 3 pin component by those 3 caps. There is only 1 of them. See what the numbers and letter are on it. I'm guessing its a 7805 or 7812. And the 820 ohms you said total is stepping all the voltage down. IF this is true you will need around 1500 ohms in there instead of 820. The resistors will be having to step down a lot more voltage so you will need at least 3W resistors. If it was me I would put 4W in there. Two 750's will do it. This is to say if you have the 7805 regulator. A better calculation of what resistors can be done when we get the exact voltage you will be putting in and which regulator you have.

So now you may be asking, can I replace the mosfets? Yes, But it is really not worth it. You have a $70 controller and the mosfets alone will cost $35 minimum. By the time you buy the resistors, caps, mosfets pay the shipping you will have $50 in it not including the labor. Considering you can buy a better controller for less then all of that ready to go.

TMaster you are the man! Ok I took my controller apart again so I can get you the numbers on that voltage regulator. My controller has a LM317T voltage regulator. Hopefully that gives you a better idea of how much resistance I need. I think I will pass on the mosfets since you think they will hold up. I'm currently running sla's to keep the cost down. On a side note, since I had my controller apart yesterday I decided to add more solder to the shunt. Today when I tested it my watt meter said it was pulling 53 amps @48v. I was pretty happy about this because prior to that my controller was only pulling 28A after I modded it originally. ..I think I will take your advice on using a 6v battery in with another 12v to get 66v. My goal is to get this thing pushing over 3,500 watts, and 35 ish MPH..I have this setup on a stingray chopper (no suspension), so I don't want to get too crazy. My next project will probably be much faster. Anyway I guess I will head to the electronics store for those caps, and what ever size resistors you suggest. Do you think I should change the voltage regulator to a 7805, or is mine going to work? Anyway thanks again!

OK you have a good regulator. No need to replace it. You will want (2) 400, 420 or 430 ohm resistors to replace those two big ones. You want around 800 to 840 total ohms in front of the regulator give or take a little. Get 3W versions, they will handle the heat better. digikey, mouser, or newark has them if you can't get them local.

53amps peak is quite a bit for the little 9 fet. What gauge wire are the motor wires running off of? and the power wires? Heck im running 60 peak with my 15 fet.

Voltage is what will give you speed unless you reprogram the controller. I was getting 35mph with 60V pack, and with 69V pack setup nominal I she'll do 40mph at 22amps. Running a tall tire though.

Another thing is if you depend on the LVC of the controller you will have a problem unless you change the resistors for that circuit. Your LVC is set really low, prolly 42V? You may want to check that. If you go 66V SLA, you will want the LVC to be 57.75V or higher. I dont use my LVC. I rely on a watt meter display so When i see the voltage and AH numbers I know when it turn it off.

Someone else would have to help you with the LVC, I have not done those mods.

Sick I guess I will go with the 420 ohm resistors. Ya I was really suprised when my watt meter said 53 amps. The controller was a little warm after running it for a bit, so I gess I should be careful. I wasn't planning on using the LVC since I have a watt meter, so when it drops to 57v I will have to cut it off. I just read your post on your controller mod, and 100 amp would be sick on a bike like yours. I will pick up those caps,resistors, and some thermal paste and see what happens. I will post some pics that are better as well as the outcome of the mod. Thanks for all the help.

You're welcome! Sounds good!

Well I got to the electronics store this weekend and picked up the caps and some 3w resistors, and stayed up until 4 this morning installing them. I must tell you it was a major pain cramming those caps in that controller. The diameter of the new capacitors was sooo much bigger than the stocks ones. Also the resistors were quite a bit bigger as well. I ended up having to solder extensions onto the leads of the caps in order to lay them down enough to clear the case. This is not something I wanted to do, but it was the only way they would fit in the case. Anyway after all that trouble I must say it was all worth it. I took it out in the middle of the night, and went for a spin. Im currently running it a 60v, and I probably won't go to 72v unless I can get some lithium, because 72v of lead is pretty heavy. According to my watt meter I pulled 3,033 watts(4.06 HP), and 55.46 amps @32 MPH. All in all I was pretty happy with the way everything went. However I would like some more MPH's out of it lol I would like to add more voltage, but I have no room for it, and don't want to increase the weight. Another thing I'm considering doing is re-lacing my motor into a 700 rim, and see if I can get a bit more speed, but I'm not sure if the gain would be significant enough. Anyway here are some pics of the controller after the mod. Sorry if they are a bit blurry.

Nice, Wow those caps are huge compared to the controller! 22amps x 60v with v drop from the load sounds like 32mph. With the addition of a 6V SLA pack you should be able to do 34-36mph.

You wont get really anything from going 700C. My 26" 2.4 tire is taller then my road bike tire by almost 1/2" inch.

this is how i did it with some 12FET infineon controllers i got from jason :

http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10222

ya those caps were monsters. The voltage dropped down to 53.9v which I thought was a lot but oh well. I was thinking of adding a 6v, but I don't know of a 66v charger, would I need to use a 72v? So dnmum you are the one who modded those controllers for jason huh? (The shop I work at is a dealer for him, and I asked him how he modded the controllers) I was trying to figure out how to cram all that stuff in there, and almost gave up. But, then I remembered that someone did it for jason, and that motivated me to keep trying lol.

well, you would charge the 6V battery seperately with a different charger. Going 72 volt would be easier, you could use a standard 12v charger for the last pack or buy 72v charger.

SLA's have a harsh V drop, unless you buy higher current rated ones. Really the A123's and lipo's are the best for not dropping the voltage much under load. Plus they give you really good power throughout the capacity till the very end.

Hmm. I guess I will just buy a 60v charger from tnc. Im currently unplugging one battery, and charging 4 with my 48v charger, and the other with my 12v charger. This is a huge pain in the neck. I guess I'll have to stick with 60v of lead until I get some lithium cells. I have heard nothing but good things about A123 so that is probably what I will get in the future. The only thing I'm a bit confused about is how to charge them, and hooking up a BMS.

shortcircuit911 said:

Hello all, I have a set up from e-bikekit.com, and want to make some modifications to it. I have already done a shunt mod to it, and am currently running it at 48v. I would like to run it at 60 or even 72v, but I think I will blow some of the circuitry. Can anyone tell me what size caps, mosfets, or anything else I might need in order to be able to run 60v+. Any advice would be much appreciated.

Click to expand...

You can safely run up to 63v and I have found about 42a peak without the shunt mod (you did that already - what is the maximum current you are seeing now).

The fets the units are equipped with are viable for 75v/75a but not at the same time... the caps are only rated to 63v which is 15S Lipo - I have been running this combination for thousands of miles with no ill effects now.

I have not attempted to go with 72 and wouldn't think of it without upgrading to 100v or better caps and also ... If running at 72v which is roughly the maximum of the FET I would consider 1/2 the rated current is the maximum you go for (without upgrading to IRFB4110 fets too)... so 75 / 2 37.5A.

My personal advice:

Run no higher than 63v peak - leave the rest unmodified - add a programming jack and cable to customize the performance to your needs (at 63v I have run up to 69A peak on geared motors but I would suggest 50A peak using the 9C direct drive).

If you want higher voltage and / or current... and feel you can do the upgrade, get the parts from Methods or whomever and have at it but truthfully... you would be better off buying a unit pre-built by Methods or YPedal or anyone else because they will be tested and burned in and they will WORK.

Hope this helps!

-Mike

Wow you got 42A without a shunt mod, that pretty good. My watt meter maxed out at 23 amps before I modded the shunt. Since the mod I have seen a peak of 57 amps. I did notice that the stock caps could handle 60v, but I wanted to play it safe and replace all the 63v caps. I think I will keep it at 60v for know. I had to buy the caps,resistors,5 new 9ah batteries, and now a charger, so I need to get some use out of it. However,I would be interested in adding a program jack. Have you done this with your controller? I would be up for the challenge of adding it, if I knew what to buy, and where to install it. Please let me know if you have anymore info on it.

So over the past week or so I have been preparing to program my controller to my specs. First off I wanted to install parameter designer on my computer. This was a bit trickey for me because my computer was missing the comdlg32.ocx file. So with a lot of help from Kingfish, as well as from methods, and Lyen I got it installed. Since parameter designer didn't launch right away I had to install a few things. Here are two links that Kingfish sent me to download.

VBRun60.exe installs Visual Basic 6.0 run-time files
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/192461

and...

Microsoft Visual Basic 6.0 Common Controls
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=25437d98-51d0-41c1-bb14-64662f5f62fe&displaylang=en

After I installed these I also had to install the comdlg32.ocx file which I got here: http://www.ascentive.com/support/new/support_dll.phtml?dllname=COMDLG32.OCX

So parameter designer should run after you extract this file onto your computer. The next step was to order the parts to make the connection from my laptop to my controller. Here is a list of some of the parts needed thanks to Kingfish.

Parts I bought from Digikey:

22-27-2051 Molex CONN HEADER 5POS .100 VERT TIN (one for every board you want to mod!)
22-01-2051 Molex CONN HOUSING 5POS .100 W/O RAMP (one for every cable you want to make)
08-55-0102 Molex Pins CONN TERM FEMALE 22-30AWG GOLD (five for every ONE of the above; min order is 10)

Another part needed to connect the controller to my laptop is a USB to RS232 Module Based TTL which I bought here:
http://www.virtualvillage.com/usb-to-rs232-module-based-ttl-003602-010.html

So now it is just a waiting game for everything to come. I will post updates as I make progress.

Excellent info. I hope it all works out. Once you get it all worked out I will be right behind you.

Thanks

Drew

Hi Shortcircuit! I can sell you an USB-TTL programming cable with the removable counterpart connector(s) with built-in "SEND" button for $20 shipped to your door since you are in Walnut Creek. We are only a Bay bridge away from each other. This way, you can save your time, minimum order quantity, as well as all the hassles dealing with oversea sellers. Just let me know.

Regards,
Ed Lyen

shortcircuit911 said:

So over the past week or so I have been preparing to program my controller to my specs. First off I wanted to install parameter designer on my computer. This was a bit trickey for me because my computer was missing the comdlg32.ocx file. So with a lot of help from Kingfish, as well as from methods, and Lyen I got it installed. Since parameter designer didn't launch right away I had to install a few things. Here are two links that Kingfish sent me to download.

VBRun60.exe installs Visual Basic 6.0 run-time files
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/192461

and...

Microsoft Visual Basic 6.0 Common Controls
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=25437d98-51d0-41c1-bb14-64662f5f62fe&displaylang=en

After I installed these I also had to install the comdlg32.ocx file which I got here: http://www.ascentive.com/support/new/support_dll.phtml?dllname=COMDLG32.OCX

So parameter designer should run after you extract this file onto your computer. The next step was to order the parts to make the connection from my laptop to my controller. Here is a list of some of the parts needed thanks to Kingfish.

Parts I bought from Digikey:

22-27-2051 Molex CONN HEADER 5POS .100 VERT TIN (one for every board you want to mod!)
22-01-2051 Molex CONN HOUSING 5POS .100 W/O RAMP (one for every cable you want to make)
08-55-0102 Molex Pins CONN TERM FEMALE 22-30AWG GOLD (five for every ONE of the above; min order is 10)

Another part needed to connect the controller to my laptop is a USB to RS232 Module Based TTL which I bought here:
http://www.virtualvillage.com/usb-to-rs232-module-based-ttl-003602-010.html

So now it is just a waiting game for everything to come. I will post updates as I make progress.

Click to expand...

Thanks I will post more as soon as I get these parts. I just got my 60v charger so now I can use one charger instead of 2 (48v and 12v). Hey lyen I already ordered the parts, but I still may take you up on that cable. Give me about a week, and I will let you know. That's cool we are so close to each other.

Lyen,

I would be interested in one of those cables

So I came home today,and no parts. I wasn't really sure what to do with myself so I decided to thicken the traces on my controller. I have plenty of 12 and 14awg wire laying around so I said why not. It was rather simple to do. Along with the wire I added heavy amounts of solder. Before I put it back together I did a test fit to make sure the trace wouldn't hit the controller case. I noticed that a blob of solder was a bit close to the case so I flattened the spot a bit, and I also lined the inside (bottom) of the controller with gorilla tape just to be safe. I just got it all back together, and it fired right up. The wheel seems to be spinning a bit faster, but I wont know for sure until tomorrow. I won't know if this added HP until my watt meter comes in. Anyway I will keep posting as I progress.

I just got back from a test run, and top speed was 32.5mph. my bike might be faster,but I ran out of road and didn't want to blow a stop. So basically I gained .5 mph from modding the traces. I won't know how much HP I gained until I fix my watt meter, or my new one comes in. More updates coming soon

Short, who did you get your 60V charger from? Just curious

www.tncscooters.com for $50 plus shipping. They have the best prices on scooter parts. They also have 24, 36, and 48v chargers.