Mark_A_W's DH Team/MAC Shanghai/64v Headway build

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Re: Mark_A_W's DH Team/MAC Shanghai/60v Headway build

Post by cell_man » Apr 03 2010 6:55am

Hi Jack,

that's a nice gesture and it's very good that you've come over to show you want to listen. I've been having a chat with Mark and there might be a few other spares that he requires but I'll probably come over this week to discuss or maybe Mark would prefer to just deal with you directly, no problem with me either way. I might have a few questions for you as well, I have some ideas but I want to run them by you first.

Thanks
Paul
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Re: Mark_A_W's DH Team/MAC Shanghai/60v Headway build

Post by Mark_A_W » Apr 03 2010 6:12pm

Thank you Jack.

I will send you an e-mail, including pictures of the parts that fail under high load.

Perhaps it would be easier to deal with parts through cell-man? He is local to you.


I did not expect this, as I am running the motor with much more power than it was designed for. I certainly do not expect a warranty! Thank you.


Mark
Under construction: Giant DH Team, MAC Shanghai, Infineon 18 FET controller, 64v Headway battery. LINK!!

Retired: Kona Dawg Dually + Bomber Triple Clamp forks with Nine Continents front hub motor, 48v 10Ah Headway LiFePO4 Pack + 12v 10Ah Headway LiFePO4 booster pack (nominal 64v).

Powered by the sun :)

Dead: Jamis Dakar frame, Mongoose Pro Downhill frame, cooked Lipo booster pack....and various other bits and pieces...

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Re: Mark_A_W's DH Team/MAC Shanghai/60v Headway build

Post by AussieJester » Apr 03 2010 6:25pm

Yup Kudos to Jack for stepping in haven't seen many manufactures do that on the forum
(if any) All the best getting it sorted fellas..

KiM

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Re: Mark_A_W's DH Team/MAC Shanghai/60v Headway build

Post by GCinDC » Apr 07 2010 7:41pm

Mark,

I'm fishing around looking for ideas about where to put my controller. With summer coming, mine is getting a tad warm on the inner thigh...

I've been seriously thinking about putting it where you've got yours. Are you happy with it? Why did you choose to have wires coming out of the top? Can water get in there? I'm sure not, but how do you prevent it? Or, why didn't you put the wires coming out of the bottom? If you had to put it somewhere else, where would you put it?

Nice fenders you got, by the way.... :lol:
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Giant DH Comp: 20s lipo (11.6Ah), hs3540, Adaptto Mini-E, 900W BMSBattery charger.
GT I-Drive (sold), 20s lipo, 9C, 72V 45A 12FET.

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Re: Mark_A_W's DH Team/MAC Shanghai/60v Headway build

Post by Mark_A_W » Apr 07 2010 7:57pm

GCinDC wrote:Mark,

I'm fishing around looking for ideas about where to put my controller. With summer coming, mine is getting a tad warm on the inner thigh...

I've been seriously thinking about putting it where you've got yours. Are you happy with it? Why did you choose to have wires coming out of the top? Can water get in there? I'm sure not, but how do you prevent it? Or, why didn't you put the wires coming out of the bottom? If you had to put it somewhere else, where would you put it?

Nice fenders you got, by the way.... :lol:

Yes, the position is functionally fine. It makes the bike look a bit motor-bikey, but it works, and keeps the centre of gravity low.


There are wires coming out of the top and the bottom. The top wires head to the handlebars, the bottom wires head to the motor and battery. I completely re-wired the controller, the battery and phase wires are huge.


The only other place it would fit is a rack on the rear, which would raise the COG, and add more weight in the rack itself.


The mudguards are ok, I'm still not happy with the appearance, but they work, and they are essential (I ride on dirt roads, and we are coming up to winter).
Under construction: Giant DH Team, MAC Shanghai, Infineon 18 FET controller, 64v Headway battery. LINK!!

Retired: Kona Dawg Dually + Bomber Triple Clamp forks with Nine Continents front hub motor, 48v 10Ah Headway LiFePO4 Pack + 12v 10Ah Headway LiFePO4 booster pack (nominal 64v).

Powered by the sun :)

Dead: Jamis Dakar frame, Mongoose Pro Downhill frame, cooked Lipo booster pack....and various other bits and pieces...

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Re: Mark_A_W's DH Team/MAC Shanghai/60v Headway build

Post by GCinDC » Apr 07 2010 8:12pm

So would you say it's waterproof, as is? Or do you keep it out of the wet?

Do the rubber gaskets(?) on the infineon end plates keep water from creeping in, even on the lower side?

Have you caulked up the wires where they come out? Or is that wire plug on the top waterproof?

Thanks!
Youtube channel, 2013 Highlights vid. Ebike Nerdcast.
Giant DH Comp: 20s lipo (11.6Ah), hs3540, Adaptto Mini-E, 900W BMSBattery charger.
GT I-Drive (sold), 20s lipo, 9C, 72V 45A 12FET.

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Re: Mark_A_W's DH Team/MAC Shanghai/60v Headway build

Post by Mark_A_W » Apr 07 2010 9:45pm

Oh, sorry, I forgot that...

I used Cable Glands instead of the stock rubber grommets. But the rubber grommets would work.


The gaskets are ok.

Just seal any extra holes with silicone or (as I did) Blu-tack.


Mark
Under construction: Giant DH Team, MAC Shanghai, Infineon 18 FET controller, 64v Headway battery. LINK!!

Retired: Kona Dawg Dually + Bomber Triple Clamp forks with Nine Continents front hub motor, 48v 10Ah Headway LiFePO4 Pack + 12v 10Ah Headway LiFePO4 booster pack (nominal 64v).

Powered by the sun :)

Dead: Jamis Dakar frame, Mongoose Pro Downhill frame, cooked Lipo booster pack....and various other bits and pieces...

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Re: Mark_A_W's DH Team/MAC Shanghai/60v Headway build

Post by Mark_A_W » Apr 13 2010 7:56am

Ok, I'm back in business.

Just need some grease!


Here are the green "composite" BMC V3 1000w gears and freewheel, and the stuffed white nylon MAC Shanghai gears.


The freewheels appear identical. The browning on the bottom plate of the MAC freewheel may have been caused by warm oil, when I ran it 1/2 full of oil, or it may have been that way, I dunno.

The BMC V3 gear/freewheel appears identical to the V2, but is more expensive. I suppose I have Ilia's/BMC's word that they are stronger, as it looks the same.

The BMC freewheel turns freely, the MAC one is very stiff (from my abuse).


I guess I will find out just how strong the green gears, and V3 freewheel is.


If it breaks, the MAC will go on my wife's bike with stock Nylon gears, and 48v 20A-ish....and I'll go talk to a mate about an X5...
Attachments
Gears.JPG
Gears.JPG (170.52 KiB) Viewed 508 times
Freewheels.JPG
Freewheels.JPG (154.51 KiB) Viewed 508 times
Under construction: Giant DH Team, MAC Shanghai, Infineon 18 FET controller, 64v Headway battery. LINK!!

Retired: Kona Dawg Dually + Bomber Triple Clamp forks with Nine Continents front hub motor, 48v 10Ah Headway LiFePO4 Pack + 12v 10Ah Headway LiFePO4 booster pack (nominal 64v).

Powered by the sun :)

Dead: Jamis Dakar frame, Mongoose Pro Downhill frame, cooked Lipo booster pack....and various other bits and pieces...

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Re: Mark_A_W's DH Team/MAC Shanghai/60v Headway build

Post by cell_man » Apr 13 2010 11:00am

Hi Mark,

the new clutch assembly, axle with 2 new keyways and 3 additional nylon gears left today by EMS. Should be with you soon. I'll drop you a PM with the AWB no.

I've spoken with Mac and they have done a few things. Firstly they are getting the steel gear case hardened (should be available soon) and they are in discussion with their gear supplier to try to find a stronger non metallic gear, but this will take a month or 2 before they have anything available. I'm very interested to see how you fair with the BMC gears and I'm sure the guys at BMC will also be very interested. Of course I'll let you know the progress on non metalic gears.

Cheers
Paul
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Re: Mark_A_W's DH Team/MAC Shanghai/60v Headway build

Post by Mark_A_W » Apr 13 2010 5:14pm

Thanks Paul


I'm really hoping they get it sorted out. They are a brilliant motor, and if they could handle 1000-1500w continuous with 2000w peaks they would be perfect.


Mark
Under construction: Giant DH Team, MAC Shanghai, Infineon 18 FET controller, 64v Headway battery. LINK!!

Retired: Kona Dawg Dually + Bomber Triple Clamp forks with Nine Continents front hub motor, 48v 10Ah Headway LiFePO4 Pack + 12v 10Ah Headway LiFePO4 booster pack (nominal 64v).

Powered by the sun :)

Dead: Jamis Dakar frame, Mongoose Pro Downhill frame, cooked Lipo booster pack....and various other bits and pieces...

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Re: Mark_A_W's DH Team/MAC Shanghai/60v Headway build

Post by Mark_A_W » Apr 14 2010 8:20am

Rollin Rollin Rollin...


I'm back in business baby.


Fitted the BMC V3 freewheel and gears to the MAC Shanghai - fitted no problemo.

Motors are basically identical.


Glued a new (hand made) key in place with Selleys Knead-It STEEL 2 part metal putty.

Seems rock solid so far. Had to hammer the freewheel down over it. So a nice tight fit (need a gear puller to get it off...).


Bike sounds different with these gears. Not the scream of the metal, not the dead silence of the nylon. Just a little bit of noise. So they definitely are harder than the nylon gears.

BMC freewheel is FREE. Wheel spins for AGES. This is definitely different to the stock MAC freewheel - mine was quite stiff even when new. We'll see how long it stays that way..

It's my strong opinion they are made in the same factory, they are identical in form, but may differ in the materials.

Voltage is 64v (74v off charger), current is 30A...fingers are crossed. I really like these gear motors, and don't want a Direct Drive with all the extra weight (shut it Kim, this frame just doesn't suit a RC motor, maybe my next bike, on the Kona frame again, and a hub motor suits a commuter - it's sealed).


Big thanks to Ilia at ebikes-sf for sending me the gears so fast!


Marky Mark
Attachments
BMC gear MAC Shangai 500W.jpg
Under construction: Giant DH Team, MAC Shanghai, Infineon 18 FET controller, 64v Headway battery. LINK!!

Retired: Kona Dawg Dually + Bomber Triple Clamp forks with Nine Continents front hub motor, 48v 10Ah Headway LiFePO4 Pack + 12v 10Ah Headway LiFePO4 booster pack (nominal 64v).

Powered by the sun :)

Dead: Jamis Dakar frame, Mongoose Pro Downhill frame, cooked Lipo booster pack....and various other bits and pieces...

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Re: Mark_A_W's DH Team/MAC Shanghai/60v Headway build

Post by Hyena » Apr 14 2010 8:24am

Cool Mark, fingers crossed they work out for you.
What did they end up setting you back ?
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Re: Mark_A_W's DH Team/MAC Shanghai/60v Headway build

Post by liveforphysics » Apr 14 2010 8:26am

Crank up the current and give it a proper test :)
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Re: Mark_A_W's DH Team/MAC Shanghai/60v Headway build

Post by adrian_sm » Apr 14 2010 8:27am

Great news mate.

Hope they last. Fingers crossed.
Build #1 ~28kg ~ 700w Avanti Hardtail Crystalyte 408, 48V10Ah Headway. ~5500 kms to date. (retired)
Build #2 ~30kg ~2000w Giant AC Dually Crystalyte 408, 48V10Ah Headway + 6s10Ah LiPo = 70V. ~15000 kms to date [SOLD]
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Re: Mark_A_W's DH Team/MAC Shanghai/60v Headway build

Post by Mark_A_W » Apr 14 2010 8:37am

They cost me A$132.

Almost as much as the motor. Still, if they last, the total was still RIDICULOUSLY CHEAP.


So no, I won't be cranking up the current and giving it a test. This thing needs to get me to work and back.


I will be gentle and delicate with it. But I will leave a set of nylon gears at work...just in case.
Under construction: Giant DH Team, MAC Shanghai, Infineon 18 FET controller, 64v Headway battery. LINK!!

Retired: Kona Dawg Dually + Bomber Triple Clamp forks with Nine Continents front hub motor, 48v 10Ah Headway LiFePO4 Pack + 12v 10Ah Headway LiFePO4 booster pack (nominal 64v).

Powered by the sun :)

Dead: Jamis Dakar frame, Mongoose Pro Downhill frame, cooked Lipo booster pack....and various other bits and pieces...

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Re: Mark_A_W's DH Team/MAC Shanghai/60v Headway build

Post by Mark_A_W » Apr 15 2010 8:58am

doc007 wrote:Wow your case came out very nice!

I noticed from the pics that you're riding with clipless pedals. Any particular reason why you chose clipless over regular pedals?

Sorry, missed this.


I use clipless pedals because I pedal. Hard. Hard as I can.


Also, they keep you on the bike when you are going over jumps and bumps.


Regular pedals are for little kids with training wheels ;)
Under construction: Giant DH Team, MAC Shanghai, Infineon 18 FET controller, 64v Headway battery. LINK!!

Retired: Kona Dawg Dually + Bomber Triple Clamp forks with Nine Continents front hub motor, 48v 10Ah Headway LiFePO4 Pack + 12v 10Ah Headway LiFePO4 booster pack (nominal 64v).

Powered by the sun :)

Dead: Jamis Dakar frame, Mongoose Pro Downhill frame, cooked Lipo booster pack....and various other bits and pieces...

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Re: Mark_A_W's DH Team/MAC Shanghai/60v Headway build

Post by liveforphysics » Apr 15 2010 9:07am

Some might say pedaling is just for the folks without torque and power they really want. :)

I tease. I tease.

I also liked clipless pedals when I was into thrashing around on regular bikes.
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Re: Mark_A_W's DH Team/MAC Shanghai/60v Headway build

Post by AussieJester » Apr 15 2010 9:18am

liveforphysics wrote:Some might say pedaling is just for the folks without torque and power they really want. :)
i.e frock motor users :mrgreen: soz Mark couldn't resist..i blame the Wild Turkey :lol: ...
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Re: Mark_A_W's DH Team/MAC Shanghai/60v Headway build

Post by doc007 » Apr 15 2010 4:01pm

Mark_A_W wrote:
doc007 wrote:Wow your case came out very nice!

I noticed from the pics that you're riding with clipless pedals. Any particular reason why you chose clipless over regular pedals?

Sorry, missed this.


I use clipless pedals because I pedal. Hard. Hard as I can.


Also, they keep you on the bike when you are going over jumps and bumps.


Regular pedals are for little kids with training wheels ;)
lol no prob. I can see clipless being great for non-powered bikes but to use them on a bike that can hit 30mph with the flick of the wrist is ballsy. You must have the dismounting technique programmed into your muscle memory pretty well. Be careful out there.
liveforphysics wrote:Some might say pedaling is just for the folks without torque and power they really want. :)

I tease. I tease.

I also liked clipless pedals when I was into thrashing around on regular bikes.
I guess the hub bashing will never end. lol cant we all just get along? :lol:
I haven't been on this forum long enough but I wonder if anyone has build a combo RC and hub bike. Not sure if I see a point in making something like this but I guess it would be interesting to see.
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Re: Mark_A_W's DH Team/MAC Shanghai/60v Headway build

Post by Hyena » Apr 15 2010 8:28pm

Mark_A_W wrote:Regular pedals are for little kids with training wheels ;)
Yeah, but seeing a lycra on a road bike fall over at traffic lights when he loses his balance and can't unclip in time is pretty funny :mrgreen:
doc007 wrote:I haven't been on this forum long enough but I wonder if anyone has build a combo RC and hub bike. Not sure if I see a point in making something like this but I guess it would be interesting to see.
I've thought about it - high torque hub to take you up to ~40km/hr and when you want to be stealthy, then a chain drive geared for higher speed when you want it. By the time you mess around though and for the extra weight you're probably better off with a 2 speed chain drive. Going super fast on a push bike is asking for trouble anyway.
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Re: Mark_A_W's DH Team/MAC Shanghai/60v Headway build

Post by Mark_A_W » Apr 16 2010 1:10am

Yeah, that'd be the obsession with track-standing
Last edited by Mark_A_W on Apr 16 2010 4:23pm, edited 1 time in total.
Under construction: Giant DH Team, MAC Shanghai, Infineon 18 FET controller, 64v Headway battery. LINK!!

Retired: Kona Dawg Dually + Bomber Triple Clamp forks with Nine Continents front hub motor, 48v 10Ah Headway LiFePO4 Pack + 12v 10Ah Headway LiFePO4 booster pack (nominal 64v).

Powered by the sun :)

Dead: Jamis Dakar frame, Mongoose Pro Downhill frame, cooked Lipo booster pack....and various other bits and pieces...

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Re: Mark_A_W's DH Team/MAC Shanghai/60v Headway build

Post by gwhy! » Apr 16 2010 10:01am

Hyena wrote: I've thought about it - high torque hub to take you up to ~40km/hr and when you want to be stealthy,
High torque hub ? is there such a thing, please show the video :mrgreen:

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Re: Mark_A_W's DH Team/MAC Shanghai/60v Headway build

Post by kZs0lt » Apr 19 2010 3:54am

cell_man wrote:Hi Mark,

the new clutch assembly, axle with 2 new keyways and 3 additional nylon gears left today by EMS. Should be with you soon. I'll drop you a PM with the AWB no.

I've spoken with Mac and they have done a few things. Firstly they are getting the steel gear case hardened (should be available soon) and they are in discussion with their gear supplier to try to find a stronger non metallic gear, but this will take a month or 2 before they have anything available. I'm very interested to see how you fair with the BMC gears and I'm sure the guys at BMC will also be very interested. Of course I'll let you know the progress on non metalic gears.

Cheers
Paul
Maybe this was already discussed, I did not read the whole thread, but:

I think the most natural engineering upgrade to the gear stripping problem would be to use helical gears (like in the Cute motors), instead of making gears with much harder material. As I understand the helical approach improves the robustness a lot, makes them more silent with the same gear material. Makes the assembly much less prone to failure by vibration and sudden shocks. It is definitely more expensive and probably has side effects like the thrust load on the gears and possibly other issues that need to be addressed. Needs reengineering the sun and ring gears too. I am a mechanical noob, maybe you can consider this and point out the problems associated with it.

What do you think about it?

Zsolt
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12 FET programmable Infineon controller with 4110s (running on 20A)
18s2p Konion 26650s (66v, 4.4Ah)
Max. speed 54km/h(34mph) no assist on flat

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Re: Mark_A_W's DH Team/MAC Shanghai/60v Headway build

Post by Doctorbass » May 17 2010 4:18pm

Hey Mark,

I got my Giant DH comp 03 today. i'll begin a new 4th ebike project with it.

Did you had any problem with the bolt on the pivot of the swign arm that become loosen?

i've reed alot of comment about that on the MTBR forum.

Here is the thread of that new project: http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/vi ... =3&t=18473

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Re: Mark_A_W's DH Team/MAC Shanghai/60v Headway build

Post by Mark_A_W » May 17 2010 7:08pm

Doctorbass wrote:Hey Mark,

I got my Giant DH comp 03 today. i'll begin a new 4th ebike project with it.

Did you had any problem with the bolt on the pivot of the swign arm that become loosen?

i've reed alot of comment about that on the MTBR forum.

Here is the thread of that new project: http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/vi ... =3&t=18473

Doc

Not the main bolts, no.

But some of the smaller pivot bolts have come a bit loose. The clue is more slack in the suspension as you lift the rear wheel off the ground.


No big deal, just check them every now again, or use locktite.


It's a very good frame for an ebike, if you can mod the dropouts to fit a motor. It's very solid - no wobble L to R in the suspension like my Kona Dawg.
Under construction: Giant DH Team, MAC Shanghai, Infineon 18 FET controller, 64v Headway battery. LINK!!

Retired: Kona Dawg Dually + Bomber Triple Clamp forks with Nine Continents front hub motor, 48v 10Ah Headway LiFePO4 Pack + 12v 10Ah Headway LiFePO4 booster pack (nominal 64v).

Powered by the sun :)

Dead: Jamis Dakar frame, Mongoose Pro Downhill frame, cooked Lipo booster pack....and various other bits and pieces...

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