What Would You Do With $300 If...

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johnnythefox   1 mW

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What Would You Do With $300 If...

Post by johnnythefox » May 15 2010 7:29pm

You just bought $200 dollars worth of A123 from Docbass and a 6x10 hub motor from ebikekits?
What I have is a Specialized Crossroads , I'm thinking I would like to run Volts at 36 and/or 72 but I don't know if there is a controler for this that can do LVC at both voltages any ideas?
I also thinking of getting my a123 matched anybody know who to contact?

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Re: What Would You Do With $300 If...

Post by swbluto » May 15 2010 9:24pm

I'd cry, 'cuz it ain't enough!

johnnythefox   1 mW

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Re: What Would You Do With $300 If...

Post by johnnythefox » May 15 2010 10:13pm

Ok maybe I wasn't clear I have $300 to spend [the motor an a123 are already paid for] surly a controler for my needs is'nt over $300.

John in CR   100 GW

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Re: What Would You Do With $300 If...

Post by John in CR » May 15 2010 11:11pm

Isn't that the slow NC motor? You're going to want higher voltage. Contact Lyen. His 9fet controller good up to near 99v fresh off the charger should drive that motor beautifully and dependably. It's nice and compact and you'll have plenty of $ left over for something like disc brakes, which you need if you don't have them already.

John

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Re: What Would You Do With $300 If...

Post by morph999 » May 15 2010 11:38pm

I'd get this controller, a 36 - 72v 20 amp controller so you can use whatever voltage you want. Use 20 amps because with that 6 x 10 motor, it's not going to matter much if you put more amps on it. It'll probably go about 18 - 20 mph tops with 48v.

http://store.comcycle-usa.com/ProductIn ... id=4654419

Actually, how many amps can put on those A123's ?

Maybe get a 36 - 72v 35 amp controller

I don't know how much those A123's can handle
maybe this one but it's discontinued at ebikes.ca so you'll have to get it from somewhere else but here it is
http://ebikes.ca/store/photos/C7235SI.jpg

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Re: What Would You Do With $300 If...

Post by johnnythefox » May 16 2010 9:22am

Sent this of to Lyen at his
9 FET 72V Infineon Brushless Controller (LYEN's Edition) $89
Hello Lyen
I was wondering if the 9FET will do 36/72 volt on the fly?
I will be running 4 dewalt 36 volts now,but when I find more money I'm thinking of going to 72
volt.
I'll be using a 6x10 from ebikekits.
What conserns me is LVC at 36volts isn't the same at 72volts.
Don't want to blow up my new to me A123's
I would like to just flip a switch to go from 36volts to 72volts while I ride
I know this 6X10 is not a monster motor so I'm not expecting a lot from it ,but but otoh
there's always the delta Y switch

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Re: What Would You Do With $300 If...

Post by johnnythefox » May 16 2010 9:38am

This is what dogman had to say about the 6x10 at E-BikeKitâ„¢ Ridiculous 6x10 Blowout!

Just back from some more riding on the 6x10. This time at 36v , a short 4 mile cruise to the flea market on pavement. Amazingly low amps used, cruising along on about 6-7 amps at full speed, which is 15-16 mph. My initial impression of lackluster perfrormance was not really correct. But pulling a max watts of around 800, there is just only so much scratch off the line going to happen. With a top speed of 15 mph, once it hits 10 mph,the motor will reach that point we are all familiar with, where the last 5 mph takes forever to build. So for that reason, it does seem to take a long time to reach 15 mph.

Testing on a serious hill though, showed that it does climb fine at 36v. Bottom line is when you hit wind or hills, you still get the full 20 amps. But once at speed the thing is super thrifty, making this a perfect motor for those who need to get the most out of some sla's. With pedaling, you can cruise at 200 watts, making it really ideal for a weak battery like sla's or a mr lau 10 ah lifepo4.

This really is a perfect motor for applications where 15-20 mph is the target speed. Really ideal for the meridian trike for instance. My 30 mph aotema on that trike was really too much.

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Zoot Katz   1 MW

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Re: What Would You Do With $300 If...

Post by Zoot Katz » May 16 2010 10:11am

I'd spend $120 on a CycleAnalyst and the remainder on the controller.

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nicobie   100 MW

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Re: What Would You Do With $300 If...

Post by nicobie » May 16 2010 11:43am

Zoot Katz wrote:I'd spend $120 on a CycleAnalyst and the remainder on the controller.
Me too. The CA will act as a LVC so you can just go with a 72v controller
Take it easy... but take it. (Woody Guthrie)

my eTownie build thread: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=23701
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dogman dan   100 GW

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Re: What Would You Do With $300 If...

Post by dogman dan » May 16 2010 11:44am

Depends on what you want the motor to do. The trails I've been building in the desert near my house are really twisty and slow to ride. This was deliberate, they keep the dirt bikes off them because 10 mph is no fun for them, and pedaling them I never go much faster than 10 mph. So for me the 6x10 is perfect for those trails.

What you do now will depend on the top speed you want. 48v would be the minimum I think, at 36v it's a 15 mph motor. I haven't had time to experiment yet with my motor, I've been pounding shingles on my roof with most of my spare time that I don't need to spend in bed. I'm a broken down old house framer, so I spend about 14 hours a day laying down, 8 of em sleeping, the other 6 online. Take care of your back. Get a better job than construction.

Anyway, 48v will get you some acceptable slow speed dirt riding, but really really steep hills without pedaling is going to take 72v. I'd say start with a 72v 20 amp controller, and then start seeing if the thing could take more amps after you see if that gets it too hot or not. If 20 mph top speed is good enough, then just get a cheap infineon 48v controller from Ebikekit or Ebay or whatever.

Definitely spend 10 bucks of that money on a remote thermometer to monitor the motor temp. And some kind of wattmeter would be good, or battery medics, or lvc alarms, something to keep you from killing the cells overdischarging the pack. Just watching pack voltage or watthours on a cycleanlyst would help you stay in the safe zone for depth of discharge.

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Re: What Would You Do With $300 If...

Post by johnnythefox » May 23 2010 8:00pm

Hay guys
I would like to thank you guys for all the help an try to do some replys here.
1st John in CR
Yes it is the slow wind nc same as the one dogman is reviewing now, so far things are looking promising.
2nd Morph999
All I know is what I've found on here about a123's. a123 cell are 2.3 a/h normal voltage is 3.3
volt max charge to3.65 they have a 30c cont. discharge and can do a 50c burst.
What I plan is to build a 4p10s pack for 36 volts to start and later on maybe 72volt when money is less scarce.
3rd Zoot katz an Nicobie
The CycleAnalyst is a great idea, do either one of you owen one?
Would you Like to tell me how easy or hard it was too setup an program?
4th Dogman
Get a better job than construction? hum, Your a little to late on the advice there, I've been a lineman most of my life ,started about 17 now I'm 54 the pain is always with you, learn to love the pain. hi hi :cry:
hay You said
Definitely spend 10 bucks of that money on a remote thermometer to monitor the motor temp.
Do you still think the same now that you've run this motor awhile?
Looking forward to your 72 volt on this motor also.
Now I guess I kind of need to look at my next thing like if I need a BMS charger at 72 volts or do I go with a 36 volt no BMS an just split the pack when I charge.
what kind of charger do I buy?
I 've got two 72 volt chargers but they are for large fla battries like in electric cars, not sure they would be good for this type service or not.
I know they took them out of service because they over charged the battries but I've not looked inside yet to see if there's something wrong or if they didn't set them up right.
Well the Battries coming from Doc may not be here for a month so...

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dogman dan   100 GW

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Re: What Would You Do With $300 If...

Post by dogman dan » May 23 2010 8:23pm

I just rode all over the place for 19 miles on hilly singletrack and couldn't get that 6x10 motor very hot. You WILL want to put together a 48v pack though. The 6x10 is nice at 36v but very very slow with 15 mph top speed. Good for hypermiling but not for a quick commute of any distance. At 48v though, it's really a pretty nice motor, especially for dirt. 20 mph though tame, is not really a bad speed in lots of situations. But maybe you need more cells for that anyway.

I meant monitor temp when running 72v, but the way this motor is acting, it may not need it much then either.

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Zoot Katz   1 MW

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Re: What Would You Do With $300 If...

Post by Zoot Katz » May 23 2010 9:35pm

johnnythefox wrote:. . .
3rd Zoot katz an Nicobie
The CycleAnalyst is a great idea, do either one of you owen one?
Would you Like to tell me how easy or hard it was too setup an program?
...
I got the direct plug-in model CA so setting up was simple.
Entering your own values is simple too.
The 2.2 version should be even simpler yet and it's well documented in the manual.
Having a CA on the bikes since day one I'd be lost without it. It's really the only way to know the state of your pack.

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dogman dan   100 GW

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Re: What Would You Do With $300 If...

Post by dogman dan » May 24 2010 5:53am

Yeah, a CA or some kind of watt meter is crucial for a smaller battery. I never really missed the CA for 5000 miles of riding, but I had a nice big pingbattery I could count on getting me there 99% of the time.

Now that I have the stand alone CA, so I can put it on any controller I have, I wonder how I lived without it. Really nice peice of equipment to have and usable at 72v unlike the cheaper versions from Hobby king that are designed for 12s lipo at most. Super easy to learn to use.

Another tool I found usefull before I got the CA was a killawatt meter to measure the power used by the charger. With it, for $30 I could calculate the power used by a particular ride, and get an idea of what the cost of different speeds was.

Back to the subject of pain. There's a switch in my head I turn off for that. It's all in your head, but the funny thing is ignoring that pain signal doesn't affect the damage your body is experiencing. So I've learned when to stop before I get further injury. Pain is a wierd thing, but after being set on fire at 17, it's all relatively mild pain compared to that. When I broke both collarbones the ER doc asked me to rate the pain and I gave it a 2. He raised his brows and said most people rate it a 10. I said, no, a 10 is when your skin has been removed by a fire. Sometimes my dentist will skip the novocaine on me for a small filling. But pain that doesn't go away for a long time is a different animal. You start to mind it more and more over time.

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Gordo   100 kW

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Re: What Would You Do With $300 If...

Post by Gordo » May 24 2010 4:01pm

dogman;
That pain switch is a funny thing, but as you note, you are still doing damage. I've been smashed up 3 times and luckily was taught how to find the switch the first time. My problem was on the second smash. I was 40 with 2 young kids to feed, so I just kept going. Falling down was no big deal. Then we moved from a rancher to a house with stairs. I found there is a short circuit somewhere that will still buckle the knees, even when you turn the switch off in the head. You don't feel the pain, but the legs buckle and you fall down the stairs. I had to figure out a new strategy to note the pain when in the house, or get more hurt from falling. As my dentist had one patient who could do it, he allowed me to try once, but even though I felt no pain, I still jumped too much and he got pissed with me. I helped my daughter learn to find the switch, but my son hasn't had severe or long enough pain to figure it out. :D
X-treme 3KW Scooter...OFF ROAD ONLY....Giant 1KW 48V 24" Hubmotor....E-Apex 1KW 48V 26" Hubmotor, built 2012-05-26
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vanilla ice   100 MW

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Re: What Would You Do With $300 If...

Post by vanilla ice » May 24 2010 4:08pm

Buy more battery!

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dogman dan   100 GW

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Re: What Would You Do With $300 If...

Post by dogman dan » May 25 2010 7:08am

Yeah, thinking more about 4p, buy more from the doc when he gets them. You can never have too much, only too much to carry.

John in CR   100 GW

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Re: What Would You Do With $300 If...

Post by John in CR » May 25 2010 8:12am

dogman wrote:... only too much to carry.
Nah, just build a stronger bike.

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Re: What Would You Do With $300 If...

Post by torker » May 25 2010 10:23am

Yea I'll second or third the 48v. 15 mph. will get boring fast unless you are trials riding through the woods all the time. 48v with a relay to grab 72 v on the fly would be too cool :twisted: What kind of bike/riding are you doing? Oops I see it is a Specialized Crossroads. my bad
Dave When I die I want to slide in sideways yelling WooHoo what a ride !

Giant Rincon w rear 9C 6*10 36 v x 20 amps
Specialized FSR Comp 9C 6*10 48v x 30 amps

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vanilla ice   100 MW

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Re: What Would You Do With $300 If...

Post by vanilla ice » May 25 2010 10:43am

48 or 60v will be pretty good on like a 42 or 45mm 700c tire. Or 29x1.90 if it will clear your stays.

Spend half on a controller and half on a booster battery to run in series with your 4p m1 cells. You're at 10ah 33v with what you got so run 2p of the 5ah 6s HK packs in series.. You will end up with 55v total 10ah. Throw in an eco6 charger you're still at around $150.

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