Custom Build... 2 Speed H.O.B.O Powered e-Cruiser

[quote Fired the bike up and it revved beautifully to full power i thought excellent was a programming issue, i thought hrmz, how about a lil load on it, so i slightly applied the rear brake when the throttle was full power controller immediately reverted to half power-ish I continued to hold throttle flat out and applied brake hard it completely stopped. I turn controller off then on the motor stutters as it would when the halls are not in correct placement, this is exactly what it did yesterday....[/quote]

It sounds like something its tripping out under load almost like its going into a limp mode. Wonder what amps its pulling when you first loaded it up with the rear break at full throttle. Was it more than 50A from the battery like you set? Did you have a watt meter on it?

The funny thing is after turning it off then on again its still playing up . What about if you cut the power for say 5 min and have a go again ?

Still a mystery why it doesn't like being put under load now and on your 12km ride the other day was fine. What's changed, come loose or burnt out?

I hope you get it sorted. I would try and post as much detail about what its doing . It gives the smart guys on ES more to work with when trying to sort it for you.

edit, hmm at least it sound like something mechanical going on and you should be able to sort that out .
 
Hyena said:
I'd be having a close look at the hall placement given you've done this 'aftermarket' Something vibrated loose and moved slightly out of alignment

AussieJester said:
when i rev the motor hard the whole freakin stator is moving throwing the hall sensor alignment out

img_236_songify-this-winning-a-song-by-charlie-sheen.jpg



:p :mrgreen:

Atleast you know the source of the problem now.
 
Who would have thought the freakin stator would move, my hall mount and halls handn't moved the stator was twisting


Have just pulled V2 Motor from Cruiser as a substitute for the weekend, i think (after speakin with Thud) will try re-epoxing
stator back onto the end plate its been off a few times i think now so its obviously lost what fit it had, i thought a series of lightening holes :p in it wouldn't hurt either, we will actually call these epoxy holes as they will allow the industrial grade epoxy i have (same i used to tooth the large sprocket and fasten magnets in) too seep through and bite onto the stator and hopefully hold him in place...thoughts?

Off to finish fitting the new stock motor to bike... Don't worry Jay she will still be plenty fast for your gay frock ass
with the stock motor ;-P

KiM
 
Bah, how long does epoxy take to dry ? You've got 68 hrs before I'm on your door step, if that stock motor is on there I'm going to smoke it like it's summernats :p :mrgreen:
 
Kim, if you do try the infinion on the other motor....for fun bump it to 18 cells...(unplug the turnigy meter -you CAN'T use that at 72v...I have burned up a pr of them accidently) regarding the epoxy..definatly drill a pocket or 2 to bond that stator good....I know I used a genaric 15min stuff on that & apparently not enough :oops: I figured you wouldn't stress it past what that would hold.....Thanks for being the guinie pig on that one...lesson learned...the new style motors are easy to re-wind without removing the stator from the tube.

Hyena, yours is the true review I want to hear after you ride this bike....I really wish I could design a plug & play for these set ups.....that would bolt on with the ease of a hub conversion.
 
Thud said:
I figured you wouldn't stress it past what that would hold
Your first mistake, we're talking about Kim the destroyer here. The guy even ruined his own spine! :lol:

Hyena, yours is the true review I want to hear after you ride this bike....I really wish I could design a plug & play for these set ups.....that would bolt on with the ease of a hub conversion.
I'm looking forward to riding it too :)
My only fear is that I will be spoiled when it comes to RC drives as I'll be forever comparing to a custom rewound motor driving a hand made gearbox, which in theory should give the best possible performance of any RC drive I'll likely encounter.
Either that or I'll start becoming REAL chummy with you and want one myself :lol:
I'm sure if you could make a bolt up solution you'd have people beating your door down. But lets wait a few days for an informed review :)
 
Hyena said:
Bah, how long does epoxy take to dry ? You've got 68 hrs before I'm on your door step, if that stock motor is on there I'm going to smoke it like it's summernats :p :mrgreen:


Only thing your capable of smoking in your man dress is man pole :p

Thud said:
Kim, if you do try the infinion on the other motor....for fun bump it to 18 cells...(unplug the turnigy meter -you CAN'T use that at 72v...I have burned up a pr of them accidentally) regarding the epoxy..definatly drill a pocket or 2 to bond that stator good....I know I used a genaric 15min stuff on that & apparently not enough :oops: I figured you wouldn't stress it past what that would hold.....Thanks for being the guinie pig on that one...lesson learned...the new style motors are easy to re-wind without removing the stator from the tube.

Hyena, yours is the true review I want to hear after you ride this bike....I really wish I could design a plug & play for these set ups.....that would bolt on with the ease of a hub conversion.

I have no cycle analyst or Turnigy meter hooked up Thud, Shall definitely be trying to re-glue the ThudSTeR motor
i'm pretty sure i can fix this. I will wait for the arrival of Kurts camera so i can grab pics ;)

I went the fastest i have ever been tonight on an ebike no speedo but it was easily above 80km/hr wound the V2 Turnigy motor out in second gear, not impressive acceleration still a lil "frock like" but top end haha very cool... now i have a working motor though shall be playing some more tomorrow with Infineon settings, theres room for improvement im a lil optimistic it will
be near acceptable for me, for Jay well, he will be spamming your email Thud "pleease build me a rc bike pretty please, i will trade sexual favours" :mrgreen: :p

KiM
 
Hi AJ,
Sorry to hear about your problems with your setup but it can be sorted, the bike looks amazing... nice one.
Im not sure what settings you have already played with on your controller but a couple of things you can try.
Block time: try setting it to 1.5 or 2 , I would not go over 2.
reprogram as a 18fet but initially keep the battery current and phase the same as the 12fet and monitor the battery current when riding then start upping the currents as needed.
try upping the phase current to around 2.5x the battery current i.e 50A battery 125A phase.
Hope this helps.
 
gwhy! said:
try upping the phase current to around 2.5x the battery current i.e 50A battery 125A phase.
Hope this helps.

I was about to say that; that's the rule for hub motors but hopefully the same thing rings true for the motor you're using.
 
gwhy! said:
Hi AJ,
Sorry to hear about your problems with your setup but it can be sorted, the bike looks amazing... nice one.
Im not sure what settings you have already played with on your controller but a couple of things you can try.
Block time: try setting it to 1.5 or 2 , I would not go over 2.
reprogram as a 18fet but initially keep the battery current and phase the same as the 12fet and monitor the battery current when riding then start upping the currents as needed.
try upping the phase current to around 2.5x the battery current i.e 50A battery 125A phase.
Hope this helps.


Cheers GWhy shall try all suggested settings first light tomorrow ;) I have the block timing currently on 1.0
A stand out issue is the acceration from running speed till around 3/4 throttle its 'stutters' after that it is
smooth as winds right out...

KiM
 
This stuttering at low speed (when phase currents are highest) *may* be the same problem I had with the 17.1 degree
external hall sensor arrangement on an 80-100.

Using this arrangement, some of the sensors are unavoidably placed in line with the stator teeth. In this location they are more suceptable to mag fields generated by the stator (which is bad).
When the phase currents get high enough, this can cause the sensor to react at the wrong time and produce the rough commutation and controller trips, like you are experiencing.

If you cannot cure the missfire by playing with the controller settings, you may need to move the hall sensors to a 120 degree, or 60 degree placement, and make sure they are in line with the stator slots, where they should get the cleanest signal.
From there, any timing adjustments can be achieved using your new electronic gizmo TA2 thingy.

Burtie
 
Another thing to try to solve the stuttering before going to a different configuration with the halls is to try a very slight adjustment of the timing, I found that on my smaller motors that if you setup the timing up for the lowest no load current this didn't always work well under higher loads So a very small adjustment of the hall placement helped maybe as little as a 1mm adjustment is all thats needed.
 
+1 for gwhys timing adjustment.
I find the low amp draw setting at top no load...then advance the timing till the amp meter shows an additional .2 or .3 amps that seems to get the most out of these...I recieved the Burties lil gizmo & hope to get time to adapt it to the race bike....truth is I am more anxious to use it onthe CA-120.

I need to re-visit the 60 deg spacing....i discoverd a bought the wrong hall sensors (in bulk no less) & i am happy again once I got the real 411a's in my cast brackets. more about that later.

congrats on the new speed record! get a speedo on it & lets see what she'll do 8)
 
Kurt pmed me Monday telling me he had posted off a video camera for me, was told by the
postmaster it would be here Wednesday and, it was! THANKYOU Kurt, its a tricky little camera
and shoots some decent video and stills for a no name brand Kmart ? (i think you said ?) camera!
Very impressed! I tried it out on a few stills for GT-->

gtadmin said:
After you work your way through the teething problems and have a spare 5 mins, a closeup of your very neat wiring would be appreciated. Can hardly wait to see the final product though! 8) Good luck with the fault-finding!

Here ya go mate, i assume you wanna see whats inside the black box too don't ya LoL :lol: if your
a good lil Kiwi i might just openz it and showz you some more copper bus barz that sitz neatly in there
joining all them big 8GA and 10ga charging leads together ;)

wiring_up_close_series_pics_1.jpg

I ran out of suitably sized cable sleeving be assured all wires will be sleeved when bike is re-build post beautification. I have used a 7 pin plug coming out of the junction box to connect all the wiring to the bars.

I also shot some video (for another thread but will post it her also) shows the low speed throttle control
and how smoothly it runs, now i must say i have farted around with this for the best part of the morning
changing phase currents and moving the hall bracket ever so slightly.

[youtube]cTUPZkzSmDY[/youtube]

I have all but eliminated the stuttering i was experiencing, lifting the phase to 135 and battery
current to 57 has also given it a tad more poke still nothing to write home about, just noticing now
my Parameter design software stops at 160 on the phase and 57 on battery i gather there is newer
versions? not even sure what version this is got it from Lyen though either way i see still some room
for improvement i haven't even heated anything up other than the front brakes
literally had smoke pouring from them after stopping yesterday from speed, i have
some fork oil thats trickled down onto the pads, was scary but cool too see the smoke haha...

@Thud...re" 120 and 60 degree internal hall sensor spacing, as you have advised this is hit and miss and
halls cant be put willy nilly between stator poles with the delta terminated motors i will continue on
with this 17.14 degree external setup as mentioned above it seems to be playing the game quite well
now albeit lack of punch i'm used to with hv160 ESC's Unable to get accurate readings i only have an
extremely old Drain Brain (pre-cycle analyst) it worked fine while connected to its original 30amp shunt
when i was using it bench testing this setup, plugged into the Infineon with the 'hacked' CA wires its
waaaaay off...either way, i'm definitely more pleased after a mornings tinkering, i think with more
phase and battery programing ability it will definitely be adequate for the time being ThudSTeR... :: wink ::

DiD i mention how fuckin AWESOME a two speed dog box is fellas?! :p Save you pennies bois a lil birdie told
me there might just be a couple available soon in the for sale section <--(bet that has an effect on your pms ThudSTaR 8) :lol: :lol: :lol: :mrgreen: P )

Anyone give me the run down on why GWhy suggested using 18fet settings i haven't been able to get in touch with him to discuss it?

KiM
 
AussieJester said:
Unable to get accurate readings i only have an
extremely old Drain Brain (pre-cycle analyst) it worked fine while connected to its original 30amp shunt
when i was using it bench testing this setup, plugged into the Infineon with the 'hacked' CA wires its
waaaaay off.
IIRC, the shunt is 2.4milliohm in the 12FET Lyen, so you might check the CA(DB) shunt setting. I think the external shunts on them are 1milliohm, but make sure you write down whatever it is set for now so you can change it back if you re-use it with the external shunt later. ;)
 
amberwolf said:
AussieJester said:
Unable to get accurate readings i only have an
extremely old Drain Brain (pre-cycle analyst) it worked fine while connected to its original 30amp shunt
when i was using it bench testing this setup, plugged into the Infineon with the 'hacked' CA wires its
waaaaay off.
IIRC, the shunt is 2.4milliohm in the 12FET Lyen, so you might check the CA(DB) shunt setting. I think the external shunts on them are 1milliohm, but make sure you write down whatever it is set for now so you can change it back if you re-use it with the external shunt later. ;)

Cheers for the info AW unfortunately for me at least (i think) it won't be correct for the 12fet infineon i have due to the mods on the shunt, that sound right? Lyen added and extra shunt plus the two originals.

KiM
 
Ah; if there's another shunt included, then (assuming it's the same as the originals), it should be easy to calculate what it is. I suck at math, so this is probably wrong. :lol:

2.4milliohm for original pair of shunts in parallel gives 4.8milliohm per shunt. 2.4 x 2 = 4.8

4.8milliohm per shunt with three in parallel now gives 1.6millohm for total shunt value. 4.8 / 3 = 1.6

You could try that value and see if it comes up close to what you expect. :)

Oh, also, you could temporarily reconnect it to it's original shunt (and set to the original value), and stick that in series witht eh batteyr to contorller connection, and see what it reads, to compare.
 
AussieJester said:
...I tried it out on a few stills for GT-->

gtadmin said:
After you work your way through the teething problems and have a spare 5 mins, a closeup of your very neat wiring would be appreciated. Can hardly wait to see the final product though! 8) Good luck with the fault-finding!

Here ya go mate, i assume you wanna see whats inside the black box too don't ya LoL :lol: if your
a good lil Kiwi i might just openz it and showz you some more copper bus barz that sitz neatly in there
joining all them big 8GA and 10ga charging leads together ;)
...
KiM
Thanks maaate :D Kiwi? :? Glad you're getting rid of them bugs

Cheers mate,
GT
 
gtadmin said:
AussieJester said:
...I tried it out on a few stills for GT-->

gtadmin said:
After you work your way through the teething problems and have a spare 5 mins, a closeup of your very neat wiring would be appreciated. Can hardly wait to see the final product though! 8) Good luck with the fault-finding!

Here ya go mate, i assume you wanna see whats inside the black box too don't ya LoL :lol: if your
a good lil Kiwi i might just openz it and showz you some more copper bus barz that sitz neatly in there
joining all them big 8GA and 10ga charging leads together ;)
...
KiM
Thanks maaate :D Kiwi? :? Glad you're getting rid of them bugs

Cheers mate,
GT


Soz mate i mixed you up with with someone else, you would be the crow lover i presume as in Adelaida Crow lover?
or we a Port Power boi? THe later are coming up for a thrashing this weekend when the West Coast Eagles hit town :mrgreen:

KiM
 
gtadmin said:
AussieJester said:
... you would be the crow lover i presume as in Adelaida Crow lover?
or we a Port Power boi? THe later are coming up for a thrashing this weekend when the West Coast Eagles hit town :mrgreen:

KiM
I'll answer that by "Go Eagles" (at least this weekend :lol: )

HAHAHA Crows suck just as bad as Port Power :mrgreen:

@AW RE: Drain Brain calibration... i also forgot to add, i have negative " - " sign in front of the amp reading whats with that any clue? I would need help on the calibration method i read the manual regarding it ....alas i'm a retard and not exactly sure how to do it still... I thought i would get a new CA from Justin when funds allow and reconnect the 3 wires i removed from the Infineon CA lead when doing all the wiring... Will need to get Lyens help with that :: sigh :: me and wires i dunno if they are not in use i have to remove them or it bugs me LoL

KiM
 
AussieJester said:
@AW RE: Drain Brain calibration... i also forgot to add, i have negative " - " sign in front of the amp reading whats with that any clue?
Probably just means that the Shunt+ and Shunt- wires are swapped at the controller connector (either inside the controller or at the connector either on the controller end or the DB end). These are the blue and white wires on pins 3 and 4 for my connector, but I don't know for sure what colors they are on yours.




I would need help on the calibration method
I wish it was as easy as with the newer CAs, but it isn't. I got this far, and then got lost:
1) Turn power off to the DB (or system if DB is powered by it)
2) While holding the button down, turn power on.
That ought to get you the SET WHEEL CIRUM screen. If so, let go of the button and then:
3) Press and hold the button until it moves to next digit, repeating until it is at the option to switch between KM and Miles.
4) Keep holding the button, until it shows CALIBRATE.
5) Call Justin. :lol: Seriously, I have no idea what the next paragraph is telling me to do, either. :oops:

In the newer CAs you just enter the milliohms of the shunt and off you go, usually. :(





and reconnect the 3 wires i removed from the Infineon CA lead when doing all the wiring... Will need to get Lyens help with that :: sigh :: me and wires i dunno if they are not in use i have to remove them or it bugs me LoL
I don't know either; probably they can be left alone, but I'd ask him to be sure.
 
Hi AJ,

I am pleased you are getting the external 17.1 deg spacing to work for you :D
This is all looking very,very nice. Good job man!

Burtie
 
AussieJester said:
Anyone give me the run down on why GWhy suggested using 18fet settings
If you flash it as an 18 fet it scales everything up assuming you have 18 fet hardware. (I think it's just the shunt value) I don't know the exact ratio of difference but I'm pretty sure if you program it for say 50 amps as an 18 fet you'll find it's actually doing 80 amps or so with a 12 fet. The phase currents would be similarly scaled I imagine. Try programming it at 50 amps first to be conservative and see what you actually show on the watt meter. Alternatively adding a few fine strands of wire to the shunt will have the same effect (but don't solder a solid lump of copper across it like you did last time :lol: )
 
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