Custom Build... 2 Speed H.O.B.O Powered e-Cruiser

Hyena said:
if you program it for say 50 amps as an 18 fet you'll find it's actually doing 80 amps or so with a 12 fet.

Hi Hyena,
I agree with what you say, but I think the effect is reversed.
Because the 18 FET ctlr has more shunt links (lower resistance), it will generate a lower voltage across the shunt for the same current.
When the controller is programmed as an 18 FET unit it will expect a lower voltage across the shunt, than if it was programmed as a 12 FET. So, programming a 12 as an 18 will lower the current limit.

I think you might want to try programming the 12 FET as a 6 FET unit, That way it will give you a higher current limit.

Probably not as high as a solid lump of copper on the shunt though :?
 
Hyena said:
Alternatively adding a few fine strands of wire to the shunt will have the same effect (but don't solder a solid lump of copper across it like you did last time :lol: )

No this is not the same effect, There are 2 levels of cutout on these controllers there is the software settings and there is a hardware/hard wired setting, by programming a 12fet as a 18 will increase this hardware/hardwired setting, But as burtie have said it will reduce the actual current being pushed out than what the software settings for current is set for.

Edit:
But what I am unclear about, is that AJ controller is a modded 12fet and it has had a extra shunt installed by lyden so the question needs to be asked what is the actual current that is being pushed out because if it was programmed as a 12fet ( with 12fet current settings ) these will not be what is actually being delivered ( so if set for 50A battery in software would actually be delivering around 70A battery if programmed as a 12fet) but if programmed as a 18fet then the current should tally up :?
 
Kim has indicated Lyen added another surface mount shunt to the lower side of the board...without a quality meter & set up there is no way to determine the current shunt resistance. So any different board configs (18-24-36) tested will require starting over to hopefully stumble upon a sweet spot.

Kim. PM Lyen for his current version of parameter designer...you can crank the phase amps up high enough to "flash bulb" 4110 fets....& cook 3077's like pop-corn :mrgreen:

EDIT: i re-read & i see the stuttering is not an issue anymore......Just looking for that arm streaching, kick in the butt out of the hole. :mrgreen:

If your still getting the throttle cut out fault. solder a 1k resistor over the top of C20 capacitor (just to the left of the big electrolitic in the center of the board)
that will stiffen up the throtle problems.
 
lookin good man,

all this fuss about sensors and settings ugh.....hv160 it is for me again lol. why oh why cant castle just make a hv320 twice the size of hv160 an even if it doesnt actually support twice the power atleast it would be almost bulletproof using a 3220 or hxt. oh and i see you used the ebike standard rape tape, it may be black but its still the same :lol: at least its not supporting the completeness weight of the lipo battery :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

Cheers
 
rodgah said:
lookin good man,

all this fuss about sensors and settings ugh.....hv160 it is for me again lol. why oh why cant castle just make a hv320 twice the size of hv160 an even if it doesnt actually support twice the power atleast it would be almost bulletproof using a 3220 or hxt. oh and i see you used the ebike standard rape tape, it may be black but its still the same :lol: at least its not supporting the completeness weight of the lipo battery :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

Cheers


The 12 fet is improving i "found" :: wink wink :: some new Parameter design software with increased limits i will now
have settings capable of blowing the Infineon...obviously this is a bad thing LoL... OH not "rape tape" either its 'race tape' from SuperCheap Autos Rodgah :p I ran out of time to fit the alumnium angle to the end plates that will ultimately hold the packs in place, one of many things on the 'to-do list on re-assembly, for the group ride and testing the current method will suffice.

Cheers for the input regarding the 18fet settings to fellas...i shall continue on upping currents etc with improved version of Parameter design software, i actually am getting to the point its acceptable for now, it will be rock solid reliable at current settings and can more than keep up with traffic and haha first gear ooooh first gear friends show me a hill and
ill show you how an e-bike is MEANT to climb slopes, she would climb any hill in front of her alllll daaaaay long without complaint :p 2 Speed FTMFW :p :lol:

I'll be back with some more info and i have some video shot last night by drunk friend using the 'new' video camera kindly donated by Kurt, things roxz in video mode! Mick wasn't able to make it with weekend footage hoping he will drop by today.

KiM

EDiT:


[youtube]SrF-0H3q3ZU[/youtube]

[youtube]x-rlqBbDi24[/youtube]
 
Excellent... Another convert to the darkest side... Gears.

Looking good Kim, gears are required for hilly areas. Actually, I wouldn't be with out them even in flat area now that I have had them. I find 3 to be excellent, but 2 is better than one.

Your neat battery set up and wiring has inspired me to design and build a new battery box that will allow me to carry twice the batteries, but more on that in my thread.

Can't wait to see all CF and finishing touches.

Clay
 
flyinmonkie said:
Excellent... Another convert to the darkest side... Gears.

Theeeeres the Kiwi :p ........not really a 'convert' seeing everyone of my e-bikes
has had gears at one time or another, the trikes both had 6 speeds the cruiser 3
until i changed hubs and now this with the 2 speed BUT the previous
were all driven through the bikes 'original' gearing this is the first with the
gearing independent from the bikes original chain drive/gears. I totally agree gears are the shot
hence one of the reasons why i continue to push chain drives not frocks... ;) Having a reduction drive with gears
mate, its just the ultimate win for e-bikes hands down, no issues with chain alignment that occur
with cassettes no blowing internally geared hubs anymore, ThudSTaR 8) is 'legen'..."wait for it".....'daairy' :mrgreen:
I will look into a cable for changing gears until such times i can get help from Jermey Harris with
the circuit he made to drive the servo i was to use for the gear change, he is a busy chap at present.
Rodgah suggest a Rock Shox PopLoc to change
gears, load up the 2 speed with a spring to hold it in 1st gear, the poploc to change to second,
shall order one next week for now unfortunately i have to stick with the lever which is a bitch for
my unbalanced self i have to go very easy when i take one hand off the bars balance is NOT good.

Looking forward to the ride tomorrow around the river on bike path no traffic
with Matt.P Timma2500 Sico and Princes Jay :mrgreen: (and anyone else
that would like to come)

Shall report back tomorrow evening hopefully with vids and pics of the ride :)

KiM
 
Yeah better get that gear shift sorted mate, I'll be at the other end of the road on my frock motored bike in the time it takes you to change :p
The downhill video looks mighty rapid on the approach but I bet even a wheelie bin would roll down that hill fast :mrgreen:

There'll be one more joining us for tomorrow - Kevin, a bloke I built a kit for.
Just zipped up my bag and at the last minute realised I'd forgotten the gopro! Just as well, I'd be sleeping on the street if I forgot that :lol:

How much current did you end up squeezing out of the infineon ?
 
Have fun on the ride bois. No serious injuries this time. I'd come if I could be there, but I am stuck here running a national rock climbing comp this weekend. Can't wait to see pics and vids fromt he get together.

Clay
 
Hyena said:
How much current did you end up squeezing out of the infineon ?

Well i think its on 140 phase 57 battery now Jay but i'll have you check out that i am doing the programing right in the morning. I tried riding around in second on the hills today goes up everything but strains it and feels gutless still doesn't heat motor up and controller is yet to get remotely hot, though my rides are short shall test it tomorrow on a long 20km trek Jay see how it goes, i have no meter connected will bring along the drain brain around half trip see how its doing. I am getting more used to the bike each ride but changing gear in current setup for me is hard, you will manage it fine even with your 'unkoness' LoL... I have to not get over confident too soon need to get used the it is ALOT tipsier than the cruiser due to the seat height still so much more fun to ride than the cruiser hands down...

Cya in the morning HiGHSiDE :p

KiM

p.s i think? ...the non frocks outway the frock powered bikes tomorrow too Jay :lol: Paul, Matt, Myself though Matt does have some frockness too :: sigh :: :mrgreen:
 
Ypedal said:
Downhill speed run ?.. wtf man ?.. down.. hill ? hmpf.... :lol:

( Nicely done btw.. looks awsome !! )

Its the street at the end of my road YPedal MaN, mate staggered down there when i did a lap of the block, surprised he walked that far LoL never fear alot more video coming to entertain you, i am taking it easy until the group ride is done today so i have a working bike after that i will have no issue upping phase and battery currents till i'm either 100% happy or we have a smokey controller ;) Hyenas going to be here today and Monday, Monday i will handz it over to him to play with ;)

@damonjackson_spl- goes up hills in first as quick as it runs along flat ground, the motor screams its box off I need a working onboard meter badly :: sigh ::

6.53am in West OZ HiGHSiDe Hyena is or will be in the air very soon on his way to Perth lets hope for massive turbulence a dropped engine and a dodgey landing for him shall we...join hands and lets us pray. :p :mrgreen:

KiM
 
AussieJester said:
HiGHSiDe Hyena is or will be in the air very soon on his way to Perth lets hope for massive turbulence a dropped engine and a dodgey landing for him shall we...join hands and lets us pray. :p :mrgreen:
And lets tell the kids playing at home what happened a few hours after you posted that comment.
Your drive sprocket fell off, leaving you high and dry (if not for the others with tools to get you back on the road)
Karma's a bitch hey ? :p :mrgreen:
 
Hyena said:
AussieJester said:
HiGHSiDe Hyena is or will be in the air very soon on his way to Perth lets hope for massive turbulence a dropped engine and a dodgey landing for him shall we...join hands and lets us pray. :p :mrgreen:
And lets tell the kids playing at home what happened a few hours after you posted that comment.
Your drive sprocket fell off, leaving you high and dry (if not for the others with tools to get you back on the road)
Karma's a bitch hey ? :p :mrgreen:

HAHA yes indeed it is.... :mrgreen: Paul and myself went for a ride Saturday morning up here in the hills
not before replacing the 6 standard length disk brake bolts with longer high tensile steel jobs just need
HiiiiGHSiDE to make the controller pumpz out some powerz on Monday so we can see what this bike
can really do for uhm, erm, ..."too" him :lol: :p ;) I haven't tried again to program the controller, i was wondering if one
version of this parameter design software "links" up better than others?

Shall call you after 3pm Monday to see what we will do about getting you hill ward bound ...

I also Wanted to give a BiG Thanks to Matt.P for doing all the picking up and dropping off of
peoplez along with the loan of his fantastic lil 1000w custom built cruiser

evcruiser18.jpg


(Some may not of been aware? Matt has sold this bike but pushed the collection date forward till after the group ride, just so Jay would have an e-bike to ride for the day!
)..

Everything ran very smoothly thanks largely to Matt's generous input to the event...
Huge thanks to you again mate perfect day (aside for the whole sprocket thing which
Matt soon had under control and we were on our way.. :) )
:wink:
The cycle way was awesome, the scenery was fantastic, haha mate, there's some disgusting display of
wealth in the homes along the foreshore isn't there :shock: sheeesh..! Picked a good time
to go there was minimal 'traffic' to negotiate, and a stop in at the local Golf Club
for a bite to eat and a beer along the way, perfect day for me :)

A few pics ES member sico took on the day, thought i would pop them here also
for those following the build.

P1010664_800x600.jpg

P1010665_800x600.jpg

P1010666_800x600.jpg

P1010667_800x600.jpg

View attachment 1

I will be having a bar-b-q meet and greet beer/e-biking/ drinking session :p Monday afternoon, those that
expressed interest coming at the group ride your all more than welcome :wink: those with rides
bring them up and we can have a lil hoon around in the hills for a couple hours too!

I really hope Jay can get the program talking with the 12Fet so he can see the potential
of the rc drive, need the power to kick the dude off the back at least damnzit!! :p

catch ya Mondee Jay, for the rest, i shall be back with more when i have it ;-P

KiM
 
What a top spot for a beer and a feed.
I notice that you can park your bikes right next to where you have a beer. It dosen't get much better than that !

OK I'm jealous.
All those sort of cool waterholes kinda disapeared in the 90's in south east QLD :x

Look like you guys had a great day. Nice one.

PS, In pic No.5... Come on AJ, if you try, you can tear your gaze away from your new bike for a few seconds to razz Hyena whilst he's there ...... :lol:
 
Well it was fun while it lasted...sort of LoL... The 12fet Infineon is officially toast and i
stand by my initial evaluation of the 12Fet Infineon controllers i.e gutless pieces of shit!
160 phase and 57 battery current was all it took to pop the thing and the performance at that time was
certainly nothing to write home about! HV160 are superior in every way other than starting from a stop
I SEVERELY regretting not going with a Castle Creations ESC on this build the performance of the 12fet was not
even remotely close to the power the Hv160 delivers, so very disappointing.

On a brighter note, Hyena has been over-->

Duct_taped_Hyena.jpg


He is feverishly working trying to revive the 12Fet Infineon as i type this ...a lost cause I'm sure...

KiM
 
bahahaha, good work kim and helping hands, its always good to know this happens to others as well :p He may have made me a delivery on a saturday, but whatever... its still funny!

sucky about the infineon though, guess hv160 it is, im just hoping i get a good bite from my turnigy controller before it pops... working on student, jobless budgets is terrible...
 
Kepler said:
Any idea how many Watts you were pulling to break the 12FET?

I don't think he is running a meter on there. Or it wasn't calibrated for the controllers shunt something like that.

If he is runny 12s lipo lets say 48v under load and a battery A limit of 57A wouldn't it be around 2700w max.

Perhaps not as simple as this but. Wouldn't the HV 160 have the ability to pull 160A at 48v - 7600w and that's why it has more punch as its almost 3 x the wattage of the Infineon.

Kurt.
 
If the controller was programmed as a 12fet and at 57A but it had another shunt installed this may well have made it more like 100A+ limit and 300A+ phase. Do you know what it was actually limited to when it popped ?. On another note thou if it was more like 100A limit and your saying that its still gutless then there is something seriously wrong somewhere. What FETS where installed in this controller ?.
 
Gwhy,
Kim's controller has (had?) 3077's in it. Lyen did a shunt mod...Added an additional shunt ala' methods to the bottom of the board. so the current being delivered is purly guesswork. (at least 50%more than programed I estimate)

I have 2 of these controllers built up with the following mods...beefed traces, 3077's & a 1k resistor accross the c20 cap. I have left the shunts stock. I intend to run the death race with these...I haven't ridden since last fall. but I have yet to make a XieChang controller deliver any real "Punch" Most of my experiments were running a Lyens 18fet unit with 4110's in it. if I re-gear & up the voltage to 72 the 18 fet unit is only "noticeably slower" than the HV160 on 48v.

Given Kim Is blowwing caps like popcorn, I think he is jammed against the current limiter & creating all kinds of inductance bounce in the board itself.... BigMoose & Jerremy H explained the issues with these big outrunners & controllers in good detail in the Ohio race thread. (where I smoked a bunch of 6fet controllers)

I still have hope for my set up as the motors are wound optimaly for 18cell operation & terminated in delta....I hope this is the key for "ok" performance & reasonable reliability. (I have a pr of HV160 & motors for 48v operation in the parts box if the xiechangs can't run with the big dogs.)

My hope is that the JH lobo controllers may be able to hang a little better using the larger package FET's. Its My next project after this race is behind me.

Kim. Thats a total drag.
 
Thud said:
Gwhy,
Kim's controller has (had?) 3077's in it. Lyen did a shunt mod...Added an additional shunt ala' methods to the bottom of the board. so the current being delivered is purly guesswork. (at least 50%more than programed I estimate)

I have 2 of these controllers built up with the following mods...beefed traces, 3077's & a 1k resistor accross the c20 cap. I have left the shunts stock. I intend to run the death race with these...I haven't ridden since last fall. but I have yet to make a XieChang controller deliver any real "Punch" Most of my experiments were running a Lyens 18fet unit with 4110's in it. if I re-gear & up the voltage to 72 the 18 fet unit is only "noticeably slower" than the HV160 on 48v.

Given Kim Is blowwing caps like popcorn, I think he is jammed against the current limiter & creating all kinds of inductance bounce in the board itself.... BigMoose & Jerremy H explained the issues with these big outrunners & controllers in good detail in the Ohio race thread. (where I smoked a bunch of 6fet controllers)

I still have hope for my set up as the motors are wound optimaly for 18cell operation & terminated in delta....I hope this is the key for "ok" performance & reasonable reliability. (I have a pr of HV160 & motors for 48v operation in the parts box if the xiechangs can't run with the big dogs.)

My hope is that the JH lobo controllers may be able to hang a little better using the larger package FET's. Its My next project after this race is behind me.

Kim. Thats a total drag.

Isn't the 3077's the a bigger fet package ? how was 12 fets installed :? . I still maintain that upto 100A from a 12fet with standard size packaged fets is the max for reliability and about 110A for a 18fet. I think I am spoilt with my set-up as I find it hard to imaging pushing any more than 75A through my motor because its only geared for 25mph and that 75A makes the bike so twitchy for the front to remain in contact with the ground. The standard 12fet I was playing with on the scooter was fine @ 75A with no mods on the bigger motor but the motor was starting up it didn't see the massive phase current hits because of the clutch. I also have all the bits here to make up a JH lobo controller and once the bike im working on at the moment is actually running ( with my smaller stuff installed ) I will be looking at putting a bigger motor in it and this will require a much more robust controller, I will be looking at making a 12fet version of the JH lobo and this should be a reliable controller for around 160A ( on paper at least )
 
G,
The irfb3077'S are T0-220 packadge (& I thought thats what you were running in your modded 6fet controller for some reason???)
http://www.irf.com/product-info/datasheets/data/irfb3077pbf.pdf

I still maintain that up to 100A from a 12fet with standard size packaged fets is the max for reliability and about 110A for a 18fet.

Is that phase current? sustained? for how long?.....educate me please. On paper it all looks simple, but in real world testing....the Xiechang's are coming up weak sauce so far....(except for the hub motor over-volting & low gear'd plodding around the yard) fragile & unreliable in a higher speed set up with the stock 80mm delta terminated motors.

Really though, untill you gear up for 30mph & start racing your set ups....you are arm chair quater-backing :wink:

Since I have your attention,& your knowledgable in this regard. A question:
Is there any reason to modify the shunt if we can program the controller reliably with parameter designer? I.E. Is there a software limit that has been confirmed to limit the output to 1500watts(or whatever) that we need to trick the controller with the shunt voodoo? to release the beast.
Thanks T
 
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