Full-Suspension Semi Recumbent Cargo Bike - NuVinci MidDrive

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
This includes R/C motors, botttom bracket, roller and geared drives.

Re: Amberwolf's Bolt-Together Semi-Recumbent Cargo Bike

Postby amberwolf » Fri Apr 29, 2011 4:12 pm

I'll have to look up "over-centered" as I don't know most suspension terms (thought I did once but keep finding lots more :)).

Keep in mind that the swingframe doesn't actually sit down nearly that low now, as it does not have the yellow springs in there anymore, just the black one, which while shorter does not compress nearly as easily (850lbs/in). Because of the spring's limited compression range, I expect the full swingframe movement to be no more than it was on teh bike it came from, as it is the same size and type of spring used there. Only difference is that it is mounted on a much larger damper unit (mostly because the little MTB dampers I have are all junk, and would need serious rebuilding or modification to actually damp anything beyond gravel bumps. :roll: )

I don't know how much vertical travel the swingframe has at the axle, and don't remember what it was for sure on the original bike. . I am not strong or able enough ATM to compress the frame to see, or to hold it while I load it up with stuff that could compress it.

I guess I could just measure the gaps between the spring coils and then take the yet-to-be-welded front mount loose, and move it forward of the seatpost by that much. That would let me see the swingarm's fully-compressed position. Would that help?

Under normal laod of me and the bike/batteries/motor, I expect the bottom of the swingframe to be about level with the ground, maybe angled up a tad, kind of like the original bike it came from. (which is why the bottom of the red frame has to be higher in the rear than I show).
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Re: Amberwolf's Bolt-Together Semi-Recumbent Cargo Bike

Postby Harold in CR » Fri Apr 29, 2011 4:22 pm

"Over centered" means, If you raise the swing arm too high, as you compress that suspension spring-shock, it COULD go past the point of no return, and actually, spring back out, raising the wheel higher, dropping the bike frame MUCH lower to the ground.

There is a point, where, that swing arm will be under maximum travel, before the spring -shock allows the swing arm to go past maximum, and, that will throw the wheel higher.

I'm not the best at 'splainin things. :roll: :roll:
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Re: Amberwolf's Bolt-Together Semi-Recumbent Cargo Bike

Postby amberwolf » Fri Apr 29, 2011 4:27 pm

I think I get it. I actually had that happen on one of the attempts to add a swingframe to CrazyBIke2; I think that was the one that crushed part of the rear triangle that I had to cut out and weld a new piece on.
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Re: Amberwolf's Bolt-Together Semi-Recumbent Cargo Bike

Postby amberwolf » Sun Jun 19, 2011 7:17 pm

Been doing more of the city-ordered cleanup, so still not back to this project yet. However, gathering parts still:
viewtopic.php?p=421439#p421439
There were some old nearly 5-foot by 5-foot signage fixtures at work that were to be tossed out, made from 1" square tubing. Since they were going to be trash, I was allowed to take them for my projects, as long as I got them all out of there right then (at end of work shift). Fortunately, they each easily snap apart into two verticals and two crossbars, total of 10 of each of those, all of which I was able to tie down to the bike. About 50lbs of metal, there.
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Was quite the challenge to find enough spots for it all, and ended up having to stack it two-deep under the seat, which basically meant I couldn't sit on the seat itslef, as there was no sling; had to take the Iams blanket I have rolled up under the pink and green dayglo stuff and put it on the seat bottom as a pad to ride home on. :)
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So now I have PLENTY of the square tubing I wanted for my new bike's cargo rails, and although it is thinner wall than I used on CrazyBike2, it is probably still more than strong enough for my needs, given that I'll be triangulating between the rails anyway.
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Each of those tiles is about 12", so each rail is almost 5 feet long. Because the rails with the snap-on 90-degree parts are a bit shorter than the plain rails, they both weigh about the same, almost exactly 5lbs each. Those added parts are just barely welded on there, and so should be easy to remove. I may well adapt the snap-on system of those stubs into my cargo rails, to allow snap-on lower or upper "decks" for my rails, sorta like the Xtracycle system.


There are three more signs to be taken down at work; hopefully I'll get those, too, as that is another 12 pieces of square tubing to work with.
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Re: Amberwolf's Bolt-Together Semi-Recumbent Cargo Bike

Postby Seriousknot » Mon Jun 20, 2011 2:11 pm

The bike looks really good AW. Reminds me of a line in the movie 'Machete' where he says "Machete Improvises". Looks like it would be very comfortable to ride.
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Re: Amberwolf's Bolt-Together Semi-Recumbent Cargo Bike

Postby amberwolf » Mon Jun 20, 2011 6:41 pm

I'm hoping it will be, once I get it finished. With my luck, it'll either be perfect, or unrideable. :)
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Re: Amberwolf's Bolt-Together Semi-Recumbent Cargo Bike

Postby amberwolf » Wed Jul 20, 2011 7:02 pm

(crossposted from the CB2 thread)

Today I picked up some stuff to help both with bike projects and with my cleanup:
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Fred just finished investigating it; the wood has a few pieces that smell like cat pee, but its' all for outside so I don't care. It'll become the frames for some fence pieces to go at the edge of my sheds, to enclose the area behind them in a non-visible-from-off-the-property manner.

The tubing is mostly EMT electrical type tubing, much of it with 90-degree curved bends at one end, which may be very useful in making various bike and trailer parts, without me having to do any bending. I will probably use these bits instead of the aluminum cot parts, for the rear cargo rails on the new bike. (and for that reason, this post is crossposted to that thread as well).


Some of it is thinner water pipe, so it isn't super-heavy, but too much so for bike use. So it, plus those awning-supports (two white/rusty, and one brown/rusty) will end up welded together to make me a back porch awning, to replace the wooden one I'd built out of 4x4s when we got to this house about 11-12 years ago, and destroyed by one of my sisters about 5 or 6 years ago because she wouldn't listen to me.


I already moved the tubing into the house; in a couple of hours when the sun isn't directly baking the backyard (it's 108F out there right now, in the SHADE, with the wind), I'll move the wood inside so I can cut the pieces and build the fence bits to put up.


There's also some motors; the motor/grip end of a 3HP electric chainsaw (120VAC 11HP motor, dunno if brushed or induction yet), B&D brush trimmer, a vacuum, a desk fan, and a weedeater. None are working at the moment, but I don't yet know what's wrong to see if they're fixable or usable.

I don't get much stuff of Freecycle these days, but sometimes I find a "motherlode". :) In this case, it was just a post for some weathered lumber, but when i got there the guy had the tubing and motors as well; we'd both remembered a conversation about electric vehicles we had had more than two years ago that had stopped due to some sort of computer problem on his end, and I'd never gotten a reply back after that, so it never went anywhere.

Now he's got links to my blog and ES, and he has this project motorcycle that currently has an ICE but I wonder if it might be a good electric candidate. ;)
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Re: Amberwolf's Bolt-Together Semi-Recumbent Cargo Bike

Postby Gordo » Thu Jul 21, 2011 3:32 am

Hey AW;
You can make nice bends in EMT with a hickey; http://www.cefga.org/documents/BendingRaceways.pdf

Very cheap and easy to use. I've seen used ones in a ReCycle store for $5.

Nice score of freebee's.
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Re: Amberwolf's Bolt-Together Semi-Recumbent Cargo Bike

Postby amberwolf » Wed Aug 17, 2011 9:56 pm

Over in this thread:
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/vi ... 28&t=30641
it was announced that the NuVinci N171 developers' kit, which I have wished to have for years, was going for cheap ($150+shipping!). I still have no budget for it, but a fellow ES member, GlennM, offered (unasked!) to get one for me to help my projects along, and hopefully to expand the ES knowledgebase as I figure out ways to use it that might be a bit different from how others do things. :lol:

So the order was placed last week, and today mine arrived, and passed incoming inspection:
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and appears to have all the parts (I only glanced thru the list vs what's there):
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That shifter motor looks almost exactly like one I saw in a Japanese car in a junkyard, used for a window rollup motor. I think it's even the same company, but it's been a couple years so I'm not sure. :)


It *is* heavy, feels about the same as a Fusin gearmotor, and is roughly the same size (but narrower).

There's been some good discussion in the above linked thread about ways to use these, but until I had it here I woudln't be sure how it all could integrate in...I kinda need to hold and see things in person to really grasp what I might do with them. :)


Holding it in my hands, I can visualize how I will probably use it: Output from the NV to the rear wheel on the *left* side, via sprockets on the brake rotor mounts.
Input to the NV via one of two methods:
--Dual freewheels on the right side, if I can figure out a way to do it (possibly using a BB cup, modified, to extend the threading, if there's space)
--Single FW from the jackshaft Thud made me for CrazyBike2's original drivetrain, and pedals and motor will be combined via dual freewheels on the JS's left side, output on it's right.

I'd already planned essentially the last one when pondering using the SA 3speed IGH as a jackshaft at the pivot point of the rear swingframe, or near it, so the only real difference is the huge weight and size difference.

I may decide not to use any freewheel on the motor side of things, and only put one on the pedal input to the NV, to prevent backdriving them, since this bike really would suck to pedal anyway, most likely, given it's projected weight. :lol:


The electric-powered autoshifter setup can be controlled either by analog input 0-5V, or shift maps using up to 64 shift points, which will shift up or down automatically as specified by the user-programmable maps when wheel speed reaches one of those points.

You can even put a switch on the handlebars to switch between two maps on the fly.

But you can't switch between manual and automatic on the fly--you have to reprogram the shifter via USB from a PC to do that. :( Seems like a feature anyone might want to test out, so it's odd that this isn't a core function. Oh, well. I'm used to that kind of thing.

I could in theory build an analog autoshifter mapper (with op-amps, and comparators and/or transistors) that would read wheel speed and shift at certain points (preset with pots rather than code), and still allow for manual override control of shifting. It would still use the normal autoshifter from the devkit, but in pure analog manual mode. Probably wouldn't even be that much work to design and build, but it's not something I have time for yet.


Another idea I had was to use the output to the shifter motor itself to disengage the traction motor's throttle momentarily, so that shifting can quickly happen without much load on the shifter motor. It'd be something like this:
Image

If I decide to totally forgo the electronic autoshifting, I can also theoretically build a manual cable-operated shifter. It still works by turning the square rod, so as long as I can work out a manual control system that turns it, like a dual-cable (pull/pull) reel, with a 4:1 ratio or more at one end or the other, then it should be possible.
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Re: Amberwolf's Bolt-Together Semi-Recumbent Cargo Bike

Postby amberwolf » Thu Aug 18, 2011 1:24 am

Gordo wrote:You can make nice bends in EMT with a hickey; http://www.cefga.org/documents/BendingRaceways.pdf

Very cheap and easy to use. I've seen used ones in a ReCycle store for $5.

Nice score of freebee's.


Somehow I missed seeing your post...sorry about that! :oops:

I haven't ever seen those benders used around here, but I could probably make one easily enough, out of wood, sheet metal, and some pipe.
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Re: Amberwolf's Bolt-Together Semi-Recumbent Cargo Bike

Postby amberwolf » Wed Aug 24, 2011 10:51 pm

I had a few minutes today to dig out this bike, and take some quick pics of possible motor and NuVinci hub placements. Keep in mind that most likely each of these will hang below the frame on dropouts/mounts made specifically for each one, rather than sitting along the tubing like the pics show. I may yet add the bottom framing to enclose them, too, that is shown in a pic/drawing on a previous page.

First, one of the Fusin motors from Dogman's melt-off, just forward of the NuVinci. Note the NV is larger than the Fusin!
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Close up of same.
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Probably I would run a small sprocket bolted thru the rightside cover of the Fusin, into a freewheel on the NuVinci's input splines. I might instead put the freewheel on the Fusin, and use a thinner single sprocket on the NV splines, to save room for a pedal freewheel. The motor chain is shorter than the pedal one, so if I can only fit one freewheel on, I'd rather it be the one on the longer chainline.

If I have to I can run a jackshaft to combine motor and pedals, but if avoidable, it'd be nice.

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I am considering something like John in CR thought up, of running the Fusin core, minus planetary and shell, and putting a very small sprocket on the magnet bell's side, which would normally drive the sun gear of the Fusin's planetary, to a very large sprocket on the NV input. This would eliminate both the plastic gearing *and* the heat-retaining external shell, allowing the motor to be easily ventilated and cooled, and thus able to run harder and longer than it can be right now.

It's really only a 300-500W motor as-is, and pushing 500W into it constantly for long periods is not a happy thing, either, as I have shown myself on DayGlo Avenger with the trailer trips--it just gets so hot that the halls start intermittently not working, but fortunately they came back after cooldown. Probably won't always do that. ;)


Alternately I could use the GM/9C hybrid, which can be a 1000W motor, minimum, as-is:
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Closeup:
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Again, bolt small sprocket to rightside motor cover, large one on NV drive input.

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On both of these, the NV's brake rotor mounts would probably be used to drive the output sprocket, but I might use the spoke flange instead, depending on the size of drive ratios needed at the rear, and amount of chain engagement I want.


One more thing--since I don't want to deal with chain growth/etc. on the rear swingarm/frame, there will have to be a new custom swingarm built that will accomodate a jackshaft as part of it's mounting pivot point, so the NV output can go to the left side of that jackshaft, thru the js/pivot, then out the right side of that to drive the normal freewheeling input of the wheel (because I don't want to back drive all that chain up to the NuVinci's output side, including the NV housing).


That custom swingarm pivot is going to take some thinking.

Most likely I will need"
--core shaft (small electric scooter rear axle, from ScootNGo or the like) that will support the weight and stress of the pivot,
--bearings on that *just* inboard of the dropouts the shaft will mount into.
--Possibly a spacer tube between the bearings to keep them at the proper distance, riding just on the outer diameter of the axle.
--Large spacer tube to ride on the outer surface of those bearings. Tube will need to be etched on inside diameter a bit to make recesses for the bearings so it can't slide on them side to side. Might eliminate need for small spacer tube on axle. This tube will be the torque transfer from left to right at the pivot; keyed sprockets with spacer rings on either side will fit over it.
--bearings on outer diameter of above tube, just inboard of the sprockets, will support the pivoting of the swingarm.
--Tube on those bearings will be part of the swingarm.

Something like this:
swingarm jackshaft v1.PNG
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Anyone see why that might not work? Or have somehting more practical and easier to make?


I also have the rear swingarm and belt drive/etc from a Honda Spree gas scooter from the mid-80s, but it's for a much smaller wheel than I want to use. I am sure I could lengthen it; I'd have to take it off teh scooter to see exactly how it's setup.
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Re: Full-Suspension Semi Recumbent Cargo Bike - NuVinci MidD

Postby amberwolf » Wed Aug 31, 2011 4:35 am

Time for custom swingarm design. Gonna need a bit of help with this one, I think.

I looked thru my available materials, and I think the beefiest stuff I have in square/flat stock is off an old treadmill frame. Main frame:
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This stuff is probably at least 1/8" wall thickness, possibly more, but I wont' know till I cut the end beam off. The end beam is thin stuff, maybe a bit more than 1/16", perhaps 3/32".

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You can also see one of the pair of motor mounts for the orignal treadmill motor I started out with on CrazyBike2; they are at least twice as thick as the end-beam wall.
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This is that motor, with the alternator fan on it, and the moutning plate I'd used to bolt to the bottom of CB2's frame:
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This is some of the pivot mounts that the treadmill frame used to fold up; they had to withstand the entire weight of the treadmill itself folding up on those pivots, when it was not in it's in-use position.
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So they're probably pretty tough steel, and may be useful as the pivot-point ends. I think they're 3/16" thick. There are two of teh rounded-end style on the left, one on each frame leg, and one of the rectangular-section type on the right.


These dropouts are of similar thickness:
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although they are on a cheap Mongoose BMX frame. I don't know if it would be better to use these or not, for the rear wheel dropouts on the new swingarm. I don't think I have any plate steel any better than these, and they're already cut to fit. I shouldn't need clamping dropouts, I think, as it will just be a regular wheel hub back there, and not a torque-reacting axle like in a hub motor or IGH.


This is the existing swingframe for the bike:
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which I need to replace so that:
A) I have the width at the pivot point to pass chains thru as needed, for the jackshaft that is also the pivot point (to prevent chain growth/etc. problems)
B) I have a straight chainstay from the pivot to the axle, to prevent interference with the chains as above.

Right now I have neither of those.

So it would end up looking more like this:
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The droputs that the front of the swingarm goes into will be spread out, probably quite a lot (an inch or two), although I can't show it in that pic. It will be dual-arm swingarm, so it's not a single-sided type. I don't think the rear axles I have can take the loads I expect single-endedly.


Buuut...I can see how it's going to have a problem at high bumps--the rear end of the shock is gonna get pushed down below the point at which it will keep compressing, and could expand back out again, forcing the wheel *up* instead of back down. :(

I have been sitting here trying to figure out how to mount it on there so that won't happen, and I am just not able to conceive it at the moment. I guess I'm too tired or something, but I definitely need help on this.

I've never designed a swingarm, or any successful rear suspension. Advice from those that have, or know how to, would be greatly appreciated.
Last edited by amberwolf on Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:53 am, edited 1 time in total. View post history.
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Re: Full-Suspension Semi Recumbent Cargo Bike - NuVinci MidD

Postby Harold in CR » Wed Aug 31, 2011 6:52 am

I have an idea that you might need to just raise the height of the connection of the tail end of the suspension shock, so it gets more travel without having that "Over-centered" action. The higher it is, up to a point, will allow much longer play of that shock.

The rest, I'm going to need to study a little. I just can't picture what you propose, at this time. I got a severe bone misalignment on the left side of my neck, that I need to get re-aligned.

I'm about to start my first build, and, have already made 100 design changes. :roll: :roll: You guys keep coming up with new ideas that look so cool, I just need to back away, and come back later to figure out what you are after. 8) :)
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Re: Full-Suspension Semi Recumbent Cargo Bike - NuVinci MidD

Postby Miles » Wed Aug 31, 2011 7:39 am

amberwolf wrote:Buuut...I can see how it's going to have a problem at high bumps--the rear end of the shock is gonna get pushed down below the point at which it will keep compressing, and could expand back out again, forcing the wheel *up* instead of back down. :(
I'm not sure I understand your concern? It looks like you've got about 75 degrees of movement, by which point the frame is on the ground, anyway..... The falling rate is more of a worry.
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Re: Full-Suspension Semi Recumbent Cargo Bike - NuVinci MidD

Postby TylerDurden » Wed Aug 31, 2011 10:49 am

Maybe an adjustable stop.

Purple = stop bracket
Green = bolts or levelling-feet used as adjustable stops.
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Re: Full-Suspension Semi Recumbent Cargo Bike - NuVinci MidD

Postby amberwolf » Wed Aug 31, 2011 3:15 pm

Harold in CR wrote:I have an idea that you might need to just raise the height of the connection of the tail end of the suspension shock, so it gets more travel without having that "Over-centered" action. The higher it is, up to a point, will allow much longer play of that shock.

So, put it back up where it was to start with, using a longer mounting arm from the swingarm?

I just can't picture what you propose, at this time.

Just what's in the picture itself; I just am not sure it will work that way, especially under heavy cargo loads.

I got a severe bone misalignment on the left side of my neck, that I need to get re-aligned.

Ow. What happened?

I'm about to start my first build, and, have already made 100 design changes. :roll: :roll: You guys keep coming up with new ideas that look so cool, I just need to back away, and come back later to figure out what you are after. 8) :)

Yeah, I keep seeing other people's projects that look much more like what I might want, but they arent' designed to do what I need them to do. By the time I adapt them to my needs and materials, I'd probably end up with what I have now. :lol:


Miles wrote:I'm not sure I understand your concern? It looks like you've got about 75 degrees of movement, by which point the frame is on the ground, anyway..... The falling rate is more of a worry.

Well, I'm not sure there *is* a problem. For some reason I can't determine, I am having trouble picturing how things are going to work in motion, and I have never really had taht problem before. I hope it isn't something caused by my most recent crash. :(

I'll probalby have to model it in 3D and animate it to see what happens, before I actually build it. I'm just much better with the physical stuff in my hands than with the modelling.

The spring itself is 800lbs/in, and I have a 650lbs/in, in the same size. I have no idea what the original ones on the shocks were, but they're a LOT softer and more than twice as long (and heavy), and compress fully if used the same way under the same load that barely compresses these. I could use them in a vertical application fo the shock, but not in a leveraged application like this.

I don't need very much actual travel of the swingarm. The worst potholes around here are a couple of inches to four inches, but I figure if I hit one of those I'll lose the wheel anyway, or crash the bike. Typically an inch or so for any bumps or holes I'd "safely" hit on the roads.

But the spring still has to work when loaded heavily, as well as when it's just me and the bike. I hope to be able to add 400-500lbs of cargo directly to the rear end of the bike (on the rails that will extend out from the main frame) and still have a little bit of shock action possible, to help save my poor rear wheel. ;) Minimum I have to be able to carry is 200-250lbs at a time, in addition to all the usual bike stuff, which I estimate will be ~120-150lbs, plus my own 150-160lbs.


TylerDurden wrote:Maybe an adjustable stop.
Purple = stop bracket
Green = bolts or levelling-feet used as adjustable stops.

I may do that just so I have a "lockout" of sorts. I guess a rubber block on the bottom of the foot or bolthead or face of the shock mount as a bumper in case of sudden slams.
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Re: Full-Suspension Semi Recumbent Cargo Bike - NuVinci MidD

Postby Miles » Wed Aug 31, 2011 3:32 pm

The acting direction will only be reversed when the link connecting the spring unit to the swingarm passes a line between the swingarm pivot and the link connecting the spring unit to the main part of the frame. The frame will be grounding before this point, so it's not going to happen. But, the way you have it set up, you will soon be into a falling rate, which is the last thing you want if you are going to have big variations in load. If you are only aiming for an inch or so of swing arm movement, it might be ok, though.
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Re: Full-Suspension Semi Recumbent Cargo Bike - NuVinci MidD

Postby amberwolf » Wed Aug 31, 2011 4:02 pm

OK. I just don't think I'm going to *get* that little movement. Just straddling the frame on the toptube, backwards, and pushing my weight down onto it moves it about 3/4" or more (it's hard to tell exactly, until I setup a stick to mark the positions and measure the marks).

I've a feeling I may wind up having to put the shock in a more vertical position at the axle point, so it is not a leveraged application, using a lower-rating spring, to get what I want out of it.

But then the shock I have will be way too long for the way I'd like the bike to look/etc., and I also will have no option to have a removable cargo rail tail structure, as it will then be integral to the upper shock mount.

Below is a rough image of what I mean, with the light green being the cargo rail frame on either side of the wheel, and the dark green being the shock's top end support to the frame itself. The red swingarm pivots inside this split frame.
DSC04811b.JPG
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Last edited by amberwolf on Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:53 am, edited 1 time in total. View post history.
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Re: Full-Suspension Semi Recumbent Cargo Bike - NuVinci MidD

Postby Miles » Wed Aug 31, 2011 4:22 pm

In terms of the change in spring rate, what matters is the angle subtended by the line between the swingarm pivot and the link connecting the spring unit and the main frame. Less than 90deg. it's rising, more than 90 deg. it's falling.
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Re: Full-Suspension Semi Recumbent Cargo Bike - NuVinci MidD

Postby amberwolf » Thu Sep 01, 2011 6:15 am

I think I get it. I'm gonna have to make a model either CAD or physical to work with to figure this out. :?

In the meantime, while pondering, I cut apart the treadmill frame to get the tubing ends opened, and they are 1/16" wall thickness. Not as good as they could be, but good enough, I expect, and lighter than otherwise.
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The frame pivot points for it's stand are 1/8":
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For a moment I pondered making fenders from these two curved end pieces, which are open on their inside curve:
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but they are also 1/16" thickness, and very heavy to use just as fenders. Maybe if I was making a road-warrior survival bike that had to hold a gun emplacement over the wheel.... :lol:


There's also a few nut-and-bolts that are useful and quite thick/strong, plus some rubber anti-vibration/shock mounts that the former treadmill walking plate was bolted to.
DSC04812.JPG
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Plus a "linear actuator" of sorts, with a small induction motor and a reduction gearbox. I doubt I'll be able to use that for anything, but if I put a DC motor on there I might be able to use it for extending/retracting stabilizers like AussieJester's bike has. I know it is powerful enough, as it is intended to lift and hold up the treadmill's entire base as incline is set higher on the treadmill.

The standoff/mounts have a screw and a nut embedded into the rubber, one at each end, and a gap in the middle, so I might be able to use them on my seat mounts to help cancel out vibrations in the seat frame. The webbing across the seat will damp those, too, but the less there are, the cushier the ride. :)
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They screw into each other, making storage handy.


I don't know what the design of hte swingarm is going to need, so I am not cutting anything until I am sure. Each of those rails is about 5 feet long right now.
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Re: Full-Suspension Semi Recumbent Cargo Bike - NuVinci MidD

Postby amberwolf » Sat Sep 03, 2011 12:11 am

Haven't gotten any further on the swingarm; been working a mixed-shift seven-day workweek this week, with next projected day off Wed of next week (maybe). Just some thoughts for today:


Since I'm building a custom rear swingarm anyway, I don't need to adhere to bicycle standards for anything on the rear wheel. :) So what kind of wheel would anyone suggest for the rear end of this thing, given the loads I expect to be able to haul on it? (200-500lbs cargo plus bike and rider up to 300lbs)

I'm assuming a moped tire and rim would be better suited to it; 24" bicycle is what I have right now for it. Whatever I get I am kinda thinking I might want a spare wheel for it, if it's different from bicycle stuff, so that I can still swap it out if I manage to break it, for times I don't have time to repair it right away. Also, I am pondering a "continental kit" sort of spare-tire mount for long-haul rides or for the heck of it when I want to show off the bike. :)


The rear wheel will either be just a regular hub and thread-on freewheel/cassette, or possibly an older Sachs coaster-brake style 3-speed IGH, of which I have two from Spinningmagnets (but one I have to figure out how to reassemble). Depends on exactly what I do with the transmission stuff and the NuVinci. Probably the standard hub would be better, because I can always get more of those, or even build one from scratch if I had to (or at least modify an existing one for extra width/etc).


I'm still thinking a 24" or 26" bicycle wheel for the front of it, but it'd be cool to have the moped stuff for that, too. I don't typically break front wheels like i do rear ones (which happens pretty much all the time), but I have broken a few here and there. Be nice to not have to worry so much about it with the local potholes and such.

The front hub will quite likely be (at least at first) one of the Fusin geared hub motors, as a limp-home motor, for when my experimental drivetrains fail the first few design trials. :lol:

I would actually like to use one of the *new* Fusin motor kits for that, as I was offered one to test and review by Fusin, but I can't afford the shipping costs. They are still willing to have me test it, if anyone feels generous enough to pay the $120 shipping to get it here. :lol:

So I will use the 24" wheel I laced up for CrazyBike2 with the secondary Fusin casing, and use either the 36V Fusin core off of DayGlo Avenger, or preferably one of the 48V Fusin cores Dogman gave me--but I have to test and/or repair both of those, as they got cooked in the motor meltoff testing. (also thinking of using one of them as the drive motor for the whole bike, too, driving the NV hub).

It's not a very well made wheel, given that I used a used rim and spokes to make it and didnt' spend a lot of time on it, but it works, and the tire is ok--same type I've used on teh back of CrazyBike2 since it's revival (actually before I mothballed it's chain drive, for some months). Still, replacing the tire, rim and spokes with something heavier-duty wouldn't hurt anything. I'm not exactly worried about weight too much on the bike, though the lighter the better.

Both front and rear I would like to put disc brakes on; I have bicycle-class rotors and calipers, though I have to make mounts and adapters for the calipers, and will need to come up with a solution to fit the rotors on the hubs, especially if I use the Fusin in front.

Anyhow, that's all my ponderings for the moment.
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Re: Full-Suspension Semi Recumbent Cargo Bike - NuVinci MidD

Postby Harold in CR » Sat Sep 03, 2011 6:22 am

Thanks to Justin, the forum is open source and NON-commercialized.
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Re: Full-Suspension Semi Recumbent Cargo Bike - NuVinci MidD

Postby amberwolf » Tue Sep 06, 2011 3:00 am

I am not sure, but that kind of wheel might work. I have no experience with anything except bicycle wheels...I only know that the moped/motorcycle wheels ought to be heavier-duty, and able to take the loads and roads I want to put on this thing.
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Re: Full-Suspension Semi Recumbent Cargo Bike - NuVinci MidD

Postby johnrobholmes » Tue Sep 06, 2011 2:32 pm

A motron wheel wouldn't be too bad. You could run bmx tires on it. The only issue is getting the right sprocket or chain to match the wheel unless you are running low power and can run through the freewheel side.


I would suggest 12 or 11ga spokes for whatever you build if it is a spoked wheel. Maybe a standard hub and 12 ga spokes into a 16 or 17" moped rim.
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Re: Full-Suspension Semi Recumbent Cargo Bike - NuVinci MidD

Postby amberwolf » Tue Sep 06, 2011 2:55 pm

I mostly think I'd prefer to run small MC or moped tires on it, just cuz they *should* be tougher, with thicker sidewalls--I don't need sidewall expansion during bumps, really, since the idea is the FS frame will help out with that instead.

Since I have to run sprockets on the jackshaft/pivot anyway, there's little reason that I can't have different ones, to turn it into a ratio-changer in case the sprocket I have to fit to the rear wheel is not the size I really need there.

The current plan is that the output chain to the wheel will be on the right side, with left side of the jackshaft/pivot being driven by the disc rotor mount on the NV. If necessary that can be changed, using a much larger chainring on the NV spoke flange on the right side, to the right jackshaft/pivot input, and output to wheel on the left side.


I'd just about rather have a spoked rim, just becuse it means I can fix minor rim issues on the road by retensioning, whcih I can't do with a non-spoked wheel. THen again, there is probably less risk of problems with a non-spoked wheel; I'm not sure as I've never ridden those. I'll take your word on teh spoke sizes; I don't know enough to have much of an opinion. :)
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