Doc's ULTIMATE TORQUE ARMS fit most of the frame UPDATE 2013

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Re: Doc's ULTIMATE TORQUE ARMS will fit most of the frame

Post by whereswally606 » Aug 30 2011 12:45pm

A big thanks to Dr Bass, my torque plates arrived today as did 2, 72 volt controllers from china as did a full face helmet. Do you think its a sign?

regards Andy
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Re: Doc's ULTIMATE TORQUE ARMS will fit most of the frame

Post by steveo » Aug 30 2011 12:48pm

THESE ARE THE ULTIMATE TORQUE ARMS

88.8V LIPO... 250AMP PEAKS.... REGEN FULL ENABLED..... X5303 20" DONUTS WITH THE TRIKE ... BURNOUTS....

MOTOR IS STILL ATTACTED TO TORQUE ARMS :twisted:

GOOD WORK DOC!

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Re: Doc's ULTIMATE TORQUE ARMS will fit most of the frame

Post by Karl » Sep 04 2011 5:08pm

J'en veux un set svp

Merci
Karl

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Re: Doc's ULTIMATE TORQUE ARMS will fit most of the frame

Post by Bazaki » Sep 05 2011 6:22am

Image

Image


Well, I did some tests before and each time when I did file and sandpaper 2 pcs of metal, cleaned with acetone, added the Dp460, waited a few days and I can pull them apart with a bit force.
When doing the scissor movement the 2 pcs will stay together, and that scissor movement is what we do with our Hubmotors in a dropout. So I guess that I'm fine now but I don't 100% trust this DP460 Stuff since I am still able to "pull" them off.

If you look at the picture above, how strong should it be ? Should a person can hang on it ?

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Re: Doc's ULTIMATE TORQUE ARMS will fit most of the frame

Post by ambroseliao » Sep 05 2011 7:32am

If you don't trust it, you can always bolt the DUTA to your bike's dropouts as a belt and suspenders double secure attachment method. :D
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Re: Doc's ULTIMATE TORQUE ARMS will fit most of the frame

Post by Doctorbass » Sep 05 2011 3:08pm

Bazaki wrote:Image

Image


Well, I did some tests before and each time when I did file and sandpaper 2 pcs of metal, cleaned with acetone, added the Dp460, waited a few days and I can pull them apart with a bit force.
When doing the scissor movement the 2 pcs will stay together, and that scissor movement is what we do with our Hubmotors in a dropout. So I guess that I'm fine now but I don't 100% trust this DP460 Stuff since I am still able to "pull" them off.

If you look at the picture above, how strong should it be ? Should a person can hang on it ?

Best is to bake the epoxy to 100 celsius for 1-2 hours in an oven... the few days ambiant cure is not giving results as good as with 100 celsius bake curing from my experience.

Also.. I noticed that the steel metal plate you have still have rust on the sanded area... this is not contrinuting to help :( ..

When you clean with aceton.. ensur eto remove the resitu with a clean wipe paper... not just apply aceton.. otherwise the contaminent will stay on the applied area.

Doc
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Re: Doc's ULTIMATE TORQUE ARMS will fit most of the frame

Post by Bazaki » Sep 05 2011 4:50pm

Well, the above plates is just to do some tests before the real job starts, I did clean it very well.
I use the torch to heat up the metal a bit so it will cure faster, maybe it is a bad idea because now it is heated for short moments.

But can the force of a strong man ( me :mrgreen: ) break this apart ? If it was done right ?

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Re: Doc's ULTIMATE TORQUE ARMS will fit most of the frame

Post by Doctorbass » Sep 05 2011 5:35pm

Bazaki wrote:
But can the force of a strong man ( me :mrgreen: ) break this apart ? If it was done right ?
The answer is 100% no but it depend ALOT of how you apply force... .. for sure if you have a lever of 10 foot, you'll only need 25 pounds.. but that's 10 foot lever !!!

aluminum overlap shear is 4700psi, steel is around 3000. that's like 3000 pounds of force applied at 1 inch from the center of rotation of the shear movement... if you try to shear both bar at 1 foot distance, than it become 3000/12 = 250 pounds of force max

for a motor.. ex an X5, i calculate that the trust i can acheive is around 150 pounds/ft... ... so if you have the set with two torque arms and have like 2 effective sqrt inch area of bond per torque arm, that's 4 sqr inch

the DP460 offer 3000psi.. so that's around 12000pounds at 1 inch.. let say your wheel is 24 inch.. that's 500 pounds of trust at the wheel that you need to break the bond so no problemo about how strong it is


Doc
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Re: Doc's ULTIMATE TORQUE ARMS will fit most of the frame

Post by Doctorbass » Sep 06 2011 1:28am

Here is a video of the real test i made about epoxy DP-420 !!!



Doc
CURRENT PROJECT: 2WD duo MXUS/Max-E ebike 32kW
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-Fastest speed record 117 km/h on flat
-Fastest 1/4 mile@ 114km/h on flat and 16.316 sec
-Succeded to haul a 19200 pounds schoolbus!
113kmh Gianthttp://www.evalbum.com/3406
Mongoosehttp://www.evalbum.com/1947
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Re: Doc's ULTIMATE TORQUE ARMS will fit most of the frame

Post by Spacey » Sep 06 2011 3:54am

Impressive Doc, I'm still waiting for my damn epoxy to arrive. My source was out of stock expecting it to be in stock in a couple of weeks grrr
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Re: Doc's ULTIMATE TORQUE ARMS will fit most of the frame

Post by Bazaki » Sep 06 2011 4:45am

Thank you so much ! That is a great video for anyone who wants know how to use the DP stuff.
Last edited by Bazaki on Sep 06 2011 10:57am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Doc's ULTIMATE TORQUE ARMS will fit most of the frame

Post by wojtek » Sep 06 2011 8:47am

i guess DP420 would be suitable for glueing steel arms to aluminum dropouts?
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Re: Doc's ULTIMATE TORQUE ARMS will fit most of the frame

Post by Doctorbass » Sep 06 2011 9:34am

wojtek wrote:i guess DP420 would be suitable for glueing steel arms to aluminum dropouts?

Yes.. I did that already

Doc
CURRENT PROJECT: 2WD duo MXUS/Max-E ebike 32kW
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-Fastest speed record 117 km/h on flat
-Fastest 1/4 mile@ 114km/h on flat and 16.316 sec
-Succeded to haul a 19200 pounds schoolbus!
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Re: Doc's ULTIMATE TORQUE ARMS will fit most of the frame

Post by icekreme1002 » Sep 08 2011 1:12am

Wooo Dp-420 arrived today.

Thanks for that 2nd vid doc, the cardboard box oven is an idea I wouldnt have thought of.

I've got the rear of my bike baking in a 70C hairdryer oven right now. Hopefully I will be finally riding this baby tomorrow!!!
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Re: Doc's ULTIMATE TORQUE ARMS will fit most of the frame

Post by wojtek » Sep 08 2011 1:36am

I only managed to get hold of dp-410 here in Europe. Apparently the 3m catalogue doesnt have 420. only 410 or 440.

But 10 minutes should be more than enough to fit the arms properly before it kicks in.
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Re: Doc's ULTIMATE TORQUE ARMS will fit most of the frame

Post by Doctorbass » Sep 08 2011 8:15am

wojtek wrote:I only managed to get hold of dp-410 here in Europe. Apparently the 3m catalogue doesnt have 420. only 410 or 440.

But 10 minutes should be more than enough to fit the arms properly before it kicks in.
yes probably.. otherwise it mean you have a serious mismatch with the dropout and the T-A :lol:

Doc
CURRENT PROJECT: 2WD duo MXUS/Max-E ebike 32kW
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=65764
-Fastest speed record 117 km/h on flat
-Fastest 1/4 mile@ 114km/h on flat and 16.316 sec
-Succeded to haul a 19200 pounds schoolbus!
113kmh Gianthttp://www.evalbum.com/3406
Mongoosehttp://www.evalbum.com/1947
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Re: Doc's ULTIMATE TORQUE ARMS will fit most of the frame

Post by Doctorbass » Sep 14 2011 12:56pm

NEW BATCH expected to arrive until end next week
Due to the succes of the two first batch and the demand growing i dont have choice guys.. :lol:

I must supply for the demand :D

So i have another batch of 40 set coming soon.

This is the revision D.

It is same as the previous revision C except that the width for the acel is now 1.10mm instead of 1.150mm.

I received that suggestion from few persons and decided to go with that choice.

9 sets from this next batch are already reserved so 31 are still availlable. :wink:

BTW.. the 3M DP-420 epoxy is availlable here ( ebay for 12$).. but expiration date might be expired
( but remember that the test i did ( the video) WAS MADE WITH EXPIRED EPOXY !!! :twisted: so...)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/3M-DP-420-Scotc ... 336b92e049

PM ME

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LAST GEN sept 2011 torque arms rev D.JPG
LAST GEN sept 2011 torque arms rev D.JPG (55.66 KiB) Viewed 4250 times
CURRENT PROJECT: 2WD duo MXUS/Max-E ebike 32kW
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=65764
-Fastest speed record 117 km/h on flat
-Fastest 1/4 mile@ 114km/h on flat and 16.316 sec
-Succeded to haul a 19200 pounds schoolbus!
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Mongoosehttp://www.evalbum.com/1947
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Re: Doc's ULTIMATE TORQUE ARMS will fit most of the frame UP

Post by rojitor » Sep 14 2011 3:21pm

I need those!

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Re: Doc's ULTIMATE TORQUE ARMS will fit most of the frame UP

Post by whereswally606 » Sep 16 2011 7:14pm

Hey, Doctor Bass, just wanted to show some well earned support for these torque arms. Im in the middle of my second ebike build in the uk and this time im trying to do economy rather than throwing money at the problems like i think i did on the first one.

Will post some pics tomorrow of the bike so far as ive got the wheels set up now.

If you are thinking about making your own torque arms, dont bother (unless of course you really want to). These are amazing and as we say in my part of the world they are the dog's danglies. I may be ordering a second batch but i have to see how it goes.

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Re: Doc's ULTIMATE TORQUE ARMS will fit most of the frame UP

Post by wojtek » Sep 22 2011 10:16am

whats the best way to epoxy the torque arms? do you first put the wheel on, put the arms nice and tight on the axle, epoxy it. and then take the wheel off before epoxy starts to kick in?
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Re: Doc's ULTIMATE TORQUE ARMS will fit most of the frame UP

Post by Doctorbass » Sep 22 2011 10:54am

wojtek wrote:whats the best way to epoxy the torque arms? do you first put the wheel on, put the arms nice and tight on the axle, epoxy it. and then take the wheel off before epoxy starts to kick in?
I have described already the best way to do in the thread.

I recommend to install the T-A with the Wheel installed to guaranty a perfect aligment.

But to do it that way, you MUST insulate the axle from the epoxy and best way is to apply a really thin film of grease on the axel.. but not too much to not contamine the epoxy !
You also MUST ensure that the slot of BOTH T-A are parallel… the Right and Left T-A must be aligned perfectly…

Otherwise the probable thing that will happen is that the T-A are not parallel and once you will try to remove the wheel, the axel will squeeze and jam because both slot have different angle and the axel would need to torsion to be pulled it out wich is nearly impossible.. and you would need to grind the slot until you can pull the axle out… and YOU DONT WANT IT TO HAPPEN !!

The T-A slot have a light loose from the axel and this is the margin you have for the alignment.

By using the wheel to the to align the torque arms, you guaranty that the wheel will stay aligned and will be able to correct that before the epoxy is cured.

DO NOT THIGHTEN TOO MUCH THE NUT OF THE AXEL WHEN THE EOPXY IS NOT CURED.. .the epoxy MUST KEEP A THIN LAYER.. otherwise the epoxy layer will be too thin and the bonding will not be as best as it can be.

Just tighten the nut like 1/3 of the normal force you apply.


Eopxy MUST be AT LEAST between the frame and the T-A.. and it CAN be added to the surrounding of the T-A

Doc
CURRENT PROJECT: 2WD duo MXUS/Max-E ebike 32kW
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=65764
-Fastest speed record 117 km/h on flat
-Fastest 1/4 mile@ 114km/h on flat and 16.316 sec
-Succeded to haul a 19200 pounds schoolbus!
113kmh Gianthttp://www.evalbum.com/3406
Mongoosehttp://www.evalbum.com/1947
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Re: Doc's ULTIMATE TORQUE ARMS will fit most of the frame UP

Post by wojtek » Sep 22 2011 11:44am

thanks so much!
how do you insulate the axle? first put some grease and then a thin tape around?

Im thinking to use heatgun to create the "oven"
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Re: Doc's ULTIMATE TORQUE ARMS will fit most of the frame UP

Post by Doctorbass » Sep 22 2011 12:46pm

wojtek wrote:thanks so much!
how do you insulate the axle? first put some grease and then a thin tape around?

Im thinking to use heatgun to create the "oven"

tape is not a must if you use grease.. or it would need to be like kapton style tape ( small tickness)

The heat gun oven is ok but the OVEN principle is the key.. the parts need to be enclosed in a box or something similar to keep heat uniform.

spreding directly the hot air of the heat gun is not good.. That structural epoxy need to cure with uniformity and not too intense directed heat...

Doc
CURRENT PROJECT: 2WD duo MXUS/Max-E ebike 32kW
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=65764
-Fastest speed record 117 km/h on flat
-Fastest 1/4 mile@ 114km/h on flat and 16.316 sec
-Succeded to haul a 19200 pounds schoolbus!
113kmh Gianthttp://www.evalbum.com/3406
Mongoosehttp://www.evalbum.com/1947
YOUTUBE---https://m.youtube.com/user/Doctorbasss
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Re: Doc's ULTIMATE TORQUE ARMS will fit most of the frame UP

Post by Doctorbass » Sep 26 2011 3:57pm

UPDATES 26 sept 2011

I will get the new batch tomorrow at the end of the day.

Lastest updated desing and still using the good QT100 steel.

I'll need to make the M10 x1.0mm thread on all them and i expect it will take like 2 hours for 40 set.

Than I'll make my QC test and will be ready to ship them. :wink:

Doc
CURRENT PROJECT: 2WD duo MXUS/Max-E ebike 32kW
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=65764
-Fastest speed record 117 km/h on flat
-Fastest 1/4 mile@ 114km/h on flat and 16.316 sec
-Succeded to haul a 19200 pounds schoolbus!
113kmh Gianthttp://www.evalbum.com/3406
Mongoosehttp://www.evalbum.com/1947
YOUTUBE---https://m.youtube.com/user/Doctorbasss
http://twitter.com/DocbassMelancon
I speak FRENCH and english

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Re: Doc's ULTIMATE TORQUE ARMS will fit most of the frame UP

Post by Bazaki » Sep 27 2011 4:13pm

Well, I just post it in here to show people how amazing strong this epoxy is and this sure can hold Doc's Torque Arms in place :D


Image
Original pic when I did epoxy them, thick steel !

Image
Image


We didn't got it apart from eachother so we set the steel plate stuck at a big rock outside, and with 2 people we hung at the other end, finally it didn't let go but the metal just twisted :shock:
2 persons that can pull 70 kg ? = 140 kg over 1 meter = 1400 Newton Meter ?

When entering a small force from the sideways it just lets go. So When expoxing the TA to your dropout I think it is possible to get them off again with a hammer and a screwdriver. Maybe I am wrong about this.

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