Turn Signals

stanz said:
Now I need to figure out how to integrate the stoplight function into my brake levers while not compromising their ability to function with my controller...
Relay. See my DayGlo Avenger thread, probably somewhere around page 8? About where I was wiring in my turn signals/brake lights after getting the Fusin kit on it.
 
WOW, what a seller! I ordered my lights Thursday and received them Saturday ... and they went from CA to MA! (That's across the USA.)

Here's his ebay link: http://motors.shop.ebay.com/a.wholesaler/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=

The lights are plenty bright, interestingly they draw more current in "arrow" mode .14a, versus .06a in brake mode. The arrow mode requires a relay which I assume disables the LEDs not needed to make the shape.
 
If the LEDs of the arrow are brighter than the brake light (so you can still see the flashing arrow while holding your brakes at a light/etc.), then that'd be why they draw more current.

Otherwise, it doesn't make much sense. If it were caused by a "ballast" resistor to help normal thermal flashers for incandescents to work, it'd be a lot more current htan that, closer to an amp or two, probably.

Soime of the lights they have there are interesting.
 
Told you they shipped fast and were bright enough :)
Yes, the arrow functions draw more amps to make them brighter then the stop/running light function.
So are you goin to buy a relay or do a on/off/on type thing?
 
I searched a long time to find a stylish rear taillight and signals. This is what I am doing with my ebike; the mods will be applied when I switch over to a dual-controller in a couple of weeks – which in turn will require completely new harnesses for ebike and etrailer.

TurnSignals0.jpg


Parts List:
  • At the top of the image is the original version of the Kapsco Rear Tail Light before modification. This is a 3-in-one light: Running light (red), license plate illumination (white), and Brake Light (red). My plan is to put black tape over the license plate light, although it might be possible to disable the circuit with some disassembly.
  • Just below is the modified Kapsco Rear Tail Light assembly. I removed the light from the mounting bracket, bend the sides over 90° and relaxed the 45° bend – all to match with my rear rack on the present ebike (P1). Bending flakes the paint off so I chipped all the loose bits away and repainted with what I had available (Hi-Temp flat black). After two coats, I applied urethane to the regions that will make contact with the rear rack to assuage vibration, inhibit metal-to-metal contact, and keep it from slipping. The fitting has been tested; it works. :)
  • Next, I added the PlanetBolts Turn Signal Blinker to each side. This completes the assembly more or less. A total of five wires will be required:
    • GND, Left, Right, Running, Brake.
  • That takes care of the Rear assembly. For the front, I will use the Kuryakyn P-Clamps and mount them to my front shocks. There’s room there even when the shock is fully compressed for the mounting. I had to file down the inside because the fit was tighter than I expected and the clamp would not close enough. I’d use a Dremel or a drill with a cylindrical rasp or grinding bit to remove the excess ridges. I didn’t have bluing ink so I used a red fatty-tipped marker and colored the inside of the clamp. Next, I rubbed a bit of residue from the rim brake onto the shock, closed the clamp down on it and rotated to find the high and low points, then kept grinding away till I had a solid fit all around and the clamp could close properly. Finally, I applied a small bead of urethane on the inside for the same reasons as the Rear Taillight assembly. This has been test fitted and it works. Adding the PlanetBolts Turn Signal Blinker completes the assembly.
Notes:
  1. I bought two sets of the PlanetBolts Turn Signal Blinkers for front and rear. Then went out and bought one more pair along with the Kapsco Rear Tail Light for the eTrailer I am constructing.
  2. Inspect the parts: One of the PlanetBolts Turn Signal Blinker posts was galvanized to the nut and the stud pulled out when I tried to disassemble it (see lower left corner of the image). There’s a 7-day return policy and by the time I discovered the issue the time had expired. That said, I still think they are a good low-profile design that doesn’t weight a lot and is modestly aerodynamic.
  3. One last note - I swapped out the nuts that came with PlanetBolts to Nylon-Insert Hex Locknuts; this removed the need for the lock washer which is important for the front mounting because the P-Clamps take up a lot of stud length.

Perhaps I should make this a separate review. <shugs>
Anyways – enjoy; hope this helps! KF
 
I just ordered a Lyen DC to DC converter to go from my 36V power pack to 12V for the rear lights.

I also mounted my paniers yesterday so I now have a place to mount them. I may extend the paniers up for the lights for better visibility.

Yes, pictures and circuit description will follow once I get it going.
 
I just checked out the Winkku lights/mirrors from UK. They're back in stock and nice (a little big), but unfortunately they're also expensive: $98 shipped (to Seattle) at current exchange rates.

http://www.winkku.co.uk/index.php

Tony
 
I don't need anything as bright as what you guys want, but I've been thinking about putting a self-contained turn signal on my handlebar (left signal only; no lectures about signalling right turns, please). I use Nitto Promenade-style handlebars, so the end would be facing to the rear. What I'd like is maybe a AA red LED flashlight that I can stuff into the end of the handlebar, a little recessed for better visibility in sunlight, with a flash rate similar to regular turn signals. Drill a small hole in the handlebar and run an external switch to turn it on and off, maybe momentary contact so it's essentially self-cancelling when I release it. Haven't been able to find an LED flashlight with the right flash rate, though. I suppose I can just keep pushing the momentary contact switch to flash it manually, but that seems like a lot of trouble.

I've seen ready-made ones like the Sunlite signal grips, but I don't like the idea of being locked into their grip and it probably isn't very bright, either.
 
Sorry I'v been away and missed this thread but if you need good stuff go to ( WWW.HEETERS.COM). :D :D
 
Kingfish said:
I searched a long time to find a stylish rear taillight and signals. This is what I am doing with my ebike; the mods will be applied when I switch over to a dual-controller in a couple of weeks – which in turn will require completely new harnesses for ebike and etrailer.

TurnSignals0.jpg


Parts List:
  • At the top of the image is the original version of the Kapsco Rear Tail Light before modification. This is a 3-in-one light: Running light (red), license plate illumination (white), and Brake Light (red). My plan is to put black tape over the license plate light, although it might be possible to disable the circuit with some disassembly.
  • Just below is the modified Kapsco Rear Tail Light assembly. I removed the light from the mounting bracket, bend the sides over 90° and relaxed the 45° bend – all to match with my rear rack on the present ebike (P1). Bending flakes the paint off so I chipped all the loose bits away and repainted with what I had available (Hi-Temp flat black). After two coats, I applied urethane to the regions that will make contact with the rear rack to assuage vibration, inhibit metal-to-metal contact, and keep it from slipping. The fitting has been tested; it works. :)
  • Next, I added the PlanetBolts Turn Signal Blinker to each side. This completes the assembly more or less. A total of five wires will be required:
    • GND, Left, Right, Running, Brake.
  • That takes care of the Rear assembly. For the front, I will use the Kuryakyn P-Clamps and mount them to my front shocks. There’s room there even when the shock is fully compressed for the mounting. I had to file down the inside because the fit was tighter than I expected and the clamp would not close enough. I’d use a Dremel or a drill with a cylindrical rasp or grinding bit to remove the excess ridges. I didn’t have bluing ink so I used a red fatty-tipped marker and colored the inside of the clamp. Next, I rubbed a bit of residue from the rim brake onto the shock, closed the clamp down on it and rotated to find the high and low points, then kept grinding away till I had a solid fit all around and the clamp could close properly. Finally, I applied a small bead of urethane on the inside for the same reasons as the Rear Taillight assembly. This has been test fitted and it works. Adding the PlanetBolts Turn Signal Blinker completes the assembly.
Notes:
  1. I bought two sets of the PlanetBolts Turn Signal Blinkers for front and rear. Then went out and bought one more pair along with the Kapsco Rear Tail Light for the eTrailer I am constructing.
  2. Inspect the parts: One of the PlanetBolts Turn Signal Blinker posts was galvanized to the nut and the stud pulled out when I tried to disassemble it (see lower left corner of the image). There’s a 7-day return policy and by the time I discovered the issue the time had expired. That said, I still think they are a good low-profile design that doesn’t weight a lot and is modestly aerodynamic.
  3. One last note - I swapped out the nuts that came with PlanetBolts to Nylon-Insert Hex Locknuts; this removed the need for the lock washer which is important for the front mounting because the P-Clamps take up a lot of stud length.

Perhaps I should make this a separate review. <shugs>
Anyways – enjoy; hope this helps! KF

sangesf said:
Pictures when attached to the bicycle would be appreciated...
:)

Apologies - I finally got around to taking a couple of pics. And again I apologize for having a filthy bike; our weather has gone south on us this um... month. Awe heck - who am I kidding; it always rains here :roll: :lol:

P1-2011Oct-RearLightingDay.jpg


This is what the rear taillight & indicator assembly looks like in daylight. The left-side indicator is illuminated. The apperatus extending from the rear rack is my Diametric Coriolis Inductive Regenerator :wink:

P1-2011Oct-RearLightingNite.jpg


This is what it looks like in dim light. The taillight is much more red than the picture presents. It also has a row of white LEDs facing down for license-plate illumination, however I have that window covered-over with black electrical tape.

The indicators break away from the mountings if they are struck, and it's not a problem to remount them. Overall the assembly is a little bit on the low-budget side of quality, but it works and is effective at communicating to other drivers my intensions; no one has honked at me in over 3,000 miles - except for that arsehole in Hillsboro who had nearly the whole road to himself early Sunday morning last August.

Related threads:


Cheers, KF
 
If you want to make yourself more visible from the rear, sides, and front, take the tape off the license plate LEDs. It'll light up the ground around the back of the bike, making it a bit more obvious you're there.

I started out with the white plate window on my CFL taillight covered, so as to help redirect the light coming out of that back into the red rear and side (and top) lens, but when it came off one fine summer day after getting too hot for the tape to stay sticky, I later saw how brightly lit my cargo pods were, and basically the whole bottom back end of the bike, and road around it, and decided I'd just leave it that way until someone said I couldn't.

Nobody ever has, and in fact I've had a couple of officials (one PD, one firefighter) say they wished all bikes were lit up that well. :)

Since the white light source itself is not visible from the rear, only the reflected light from the bike and ground, there's legally nothing wrong with it. Same in your state, AFAIK.

Your lights are almost certainly not as bright as the CFL's downlighting is, but it will still help a little.
 
AW, that is a good point :) ; I will test that theory in the darkened room. One thing that is not obvious from the pictures is that I also have two blinkies suspended below the Brookes Saddle...

P1&P2-0.jpg


You can see them here in this shot. They are V E R Y bright and unmistakenly mark me as highly visible. I often wonder what cars think of me as I am cruising down the lane in rush-hour traffic at 30 mph. Yesterday a fellow cyclist thought that I was riding a motorcycle - I guess cos I was wearing the AGV Blade Helmet.

OK, I tried it and I liked it 8)
Turns out it wasn't black electrical tape; it was black duct tape, and it left a bit of glue behind. I'll need to get that off with mineral oil before I head out again. I agree that it does enhance the visibility about 20% more :)

Thanks for the hint, KF
 
(use isopropyl alcohol instead of mineral oil--it does a better job at removing gluey gooey, for me)


I'm glad the extra light helps. :)

I imagine that while towing the trailer, those blinkies were even more effective, as they would light up the trailer itself, giving you side and forward lighting of it as well as the rearward direct lighting they provide.


I've seen more and more motorcycles that have some sort of lighting strips installed (aftermarket, probably) under their fairings and housings for things. They light up the sides of the bike quite a bit, and usually they're green, blue, or purple, but none of those colors is road legal for standard vehicles in at least some places.

Why they don't just use amber or yellow, I don't know--they'd still be very visible and no matter what angle the lights were visible from, still legal. Most especially, they could use the lights *directly* instead of redirecting the light from them off the bike parts, and they'd be even more effective at distance.

Anyway, I keep intending to add more marker lights to my own bikes, but never have gotten round to it. Best I have done so far is to add various reflective tape to the bike in strategic places to make it more visible from the side at night, just in case they don't see my lights for some reason. I dont' have any real side lighting, other than the side reflectors of the old Honda taillight, which are pretty obscured by the turn signals to either side. When those are on, they're very visible from the side, too, but only then.

Someday need to finish the LED side markers that go in the turn signal housings, amber front and red rear, whcih will blink off when the turn signals blink on. I had similar lighting on DayGlo Avenger when it was friction drive (and before motorization), but broke them over time, and haven't fixed or replaced them. Just too many things to do.

Someday maybe I should concentrate on one project at a time till it's all done. :lol:
 
I was at my local electronics supply yesterday and snagged a 12-Volt Yellow LED with the idea of placing it somehow on the Left/Right switch so that I could have a visual indication that my signals were active. From where I am sitting, I can’t see the indicators however I can hear the flasher unit clicking away. Sometimes my fingers slip or I forget to turn off the indicators after executing a turn, so the idea is to have a visual cue to remind me that it’s still active.

The question I have is electrically – where to attach the wires. Here’s the unit below:

VE-12VBY.jpg

Link to product page

Below is the present electrical version on the bike:
P1-Fall2012.Rebuild.2.png


Initially my thought was to connect between Flasher-L and GND, but methinks the lamp would always be lit. I only want it active when Left or Right is active. So I am wondering if I tee into the L&R leads with a diode for each and cathodes pointing towards the Red leg of the LED and the Yellow leg to GND. Diode could be a 1N4148 or 1N4007. Does that make sense?

Thanks, KF
 
My second thought: 1kohm resistor from turn signal swithc common to base of a 2n2222 or similar transistor. LED current limiting resistor from emitter to ground. LED from 12V to collector (might need the resistor here instead of emitter).

Will blink whenever either signal is going.

To have two of them and blink only with the correct signal, use two of the above but hooked to the Left or Right out of the switch, rather than it's common.


My first thought that probably wouldn't work:
Put it in parallel with a small resistor between the common of the switch and the blinker. That will show you that *a* blinker is going, though not which one, as when the blinker passes current thru the signals and the resistor, it develops a voltage drop across it that then lights the LED.
 
Thanks AW. I modeled the 2nd Thought and the current when Base is open is likw -2nA using a 100 ohm resistor (call it R2) between Emitter and GND. When I appliy +12V to (R1) 1k Ohm resistor to Base the current through the LED and R2 jumps to about 90mA. Linear doesn't have a 12V LED so I am using the PT-121-B component instead.

I created a parallel model with R2 moved between the LED and the Collector, and the current moves up to 100mA, and when Base is open falls to -2.5nA.

I checked with Digikey and typical 12V LEDs draw about 20mA, so I reset R2 to 500 ohms and the LED current came right down to 20mA.

Does the current appear correct to you?

Here is the corrected product page from the manufacturer.

Many thanks, KF :)
 
I used 5mm high brightness narrow beam LEDs (the 20000 mCd ones).

One of those on a black background is visible from more than 200m in sunlight, provided you are into the cone of light it sends out. At night, it's very bright.

I soldered them on perfboard, all in series. The trick is to have enough LEDs and fold the "legs" so that each LED has a different angle, to cover the whole 180°. No matter where the guy looking at me is, in a 180° arc at the rear, he will always see at least one LED, usually more. This tail light is very visible from all angles including from the sides.

Several LEDs are pointing straight to the rear for added long-distance visibility. Diffusers can also help to create more area, which makes it more visible at night, but less visible at day, so not all LEDs should be behind a diffuser, maybe only a third.

If you got a 36V battery, each LED takes about 2V, so just put 12-15 of them and a resistor. More volts, more LEDs.

It's easy to do and cheap.
 
I had an opportunity this afternoon to test the direct connection method just to see if it would work:
  • Connected Red leg to +12V and Yellow leg to Flasher-L.
  • Engage signal and LED lights up with the first blink, but then remains on when the blink is off, but then from that moment forward is in opposition to the indicator (inverted). I don’t mind that.
  • However there’s another artifact and that is the Indicators in the off-blink now are dimly lit. So I think the idea has partial merit although I wonder if a small resistor in series would prevent leakage.
Thoughts?

~KF
 
OK I have this mod completed. The plan that worked best was:
  • LED leads are Red = +12V, Yel = GND
  • At the L/R Switch, Orange = Left & Lt-Green = Right... and both are +12V.
  • I modified the L/R Switch housing and buried the LED into it, but first I had to take all the switches to wire it up after the hole was made to suit the LED.
  • At the L/R Switch on the output side I mounted two spare 1N4007 diodes with anodes soldered to the switch and the combined cathodes soldered to the Red leg of the LED. The horn switch was wired but not connected beyond the main harness; both leads were dangling, so I designated the switch for horn shall be AFTER the device (should I purchase one) and therefore the switch completes the circuit to GND… a long winded way of saying I grounded the other side of the LED to the horn – which doesn’t exist… yet.
all-fix1.gif

I confirmed the idea with this simple schematic... except there are no resistors: Where the two diode cathodes come together there's an LED instead of the "68" resistor.

EDIT: The correct switch mod is shown below...
P1-SignalsIndicatorLEDBlockDiagram0.png


Now when I turn on the L or R indicators the LED at the switch lights in unison. My monoxide-overdose mod is complete.

P1-SignalsIndicatorLED.jpg



And there you have it.

~KF
 
What voltage does your converter put out under load?

What type of flasher is it? Electronic? Thermal? Electromagnetic?

Some of these blinkers don't work right if they get too low a voltage, and are usually designed for 13-14V operation. Thermal and electromagnetic ones can have huge current inrush spikes when they turn on, causing huge voltage dips if the source can't handle that.

Some blinkers also require sufficient load on them to even turn on properly, and will blink really fast (if at all) if there's not enough of a load. So with LED signals they may not work as expected without ballast resistors in parallel with the signals, to simulate the load of an incandescent bulb. Some are designed that way on purpose, so that when a bulb burns out they blink really fast so you know you have a bulb out (since usually the indicator on the dash also is wired with the signals).
 
amberwolf said:
What voltage does your converter put out under load?

What type of flasher is it? Electronic? Thermal? Electromagnetic?

Some of these blinkers don't work right if they get too low a voltage, and are usually designed for 13-14V operation. Thermal and electromagnetic ones can have huge current inrush spikes when they turn on, causing huge voltage dips if the source can't handle that.

Some blinkers also require sufficient load on them to even turn on properly, and will blink really fast (if at all) if there's not enough of a load. So with LED signals they may not work as expected without ballast resistors in parallel with the signals, to simulate the load of an incandescent bulb. Some are designed that way on purpose, so that when a bulb burns out they blink really fast so you know you have a bulb out (since usually the indicator on the dash also is wired with the signals).

My converter puts out almost exactly 12V under load. I have a CF13JL02 electronic flasher, and it says it's "for LED" and 12V 0.02A-20A so theoretically it should work with very small loads. When I put several LEDs in parallel it still strobes, but when I place a larger LED it will flash very quickly but at irregular intervals.
 
Do you have any fully-charged SLA laying around? Or a variable-voltage power supply, settable to 13-14V? Test the blinkers with that, and see if it makes a difference. If it does, then the blinker does work, just not with only "12V" like it says. Remember that FLA/SLA also say 12V on the sides, too, but they are not actually 12V batteries, as they are pretty far discharged when they reach that point.

Alternately, try an automotive incandescent bulb in place of an LED. If taht works, just add ballast resistors.
 
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