Occupy REI!

Actually I keep correcting him on the structure of the Canadian gov but his Edyamikateshun level isn't up on handling and retaining the information.

li-ghtcycle, I do wish the liberal coasts would stop making asses of themselves. But give them my blessing for their mind blowing enthusiasm.

We are not fully lawful here, there is overnight camping, which is apparently OK by the constitution but not by the city. The main driving forces aren't backing down on that. Me; i want things to be legal.

You would be pleased to know that the ultra liberal hippie communistic types usually get talked into calming the hell down here. Saw some lady screaming about giving everyone free food ( who's gonna farm? ) and she was off the side of the street in 10 minutes.

I like this group, but it is about 1/100th the size of Portland's occupation.

neptronix said:

li-ghtcycle, I do wish the liberal coasts would stop making asses of themselves. But give them my blessing for their mind blowing enthusiasm.

We are not fully lawful here, there is overnight camping, which is apparently OK by the constitution but not by the city. The main driving forces aren't backing down on that. Me; i want things to be legal.

You would be pleased to know that the ultra liberal hippie communistic types usually get talked into calming the hell down here. Saw some lady screaming about giving everyone free food ( who's gonna farm? ) and she was off the side of the street in 10 minutes.

I like this group, but it is about 1/100th the size of Portland's occupation.

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Good on you!

We have had some positive results here too, some people actually went to Bank of America and closed their accounts as a statement, instead of the 8 people who got themselves arrested for refusing to move from blocking the street, but hey, they got on the news so mission accomplished. :wink:

There was a really interesting interview going on at the camp until too many were using bandwidth up (using phones & netbooks and such) so that it shut down the broadcast's bandwidth, but still interesting to hear from the horse's mouth.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2011/1015/1224305837044.html

Bank of Canada head calls Occupy protests 'entirely constructive'
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...rotests-entirely-constructive/article2202064/

Your looney dollar tax payer money at work http://www.infowars.com/royals-heckled-by-protesters-in-montreal/

Royals paid to visit Canada? Please....
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Troll alert.

http://www.therepublic.com/view/story/0473e210cb534fc0b7dedda1de96310d/OR--Occupy-Portland-Arrests/

A witness said Parker was filming inside tents without permission and displayed the gun more than once after protesters at the camp displayed knives.

"He pulled his shirt halfway up and showed me he had a piece," said Jason Kersten, who works in the camp's security group. "This is a peaceful protest. You don't bring a gun."

Kersten acknowledged that someone used a racial epithet.

"The N-word was used by some people in the camp," he said.

Parker had a license to carry the concealed handgun. He was charged with second-degree disorderly conduct.

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Oh yes, so peaceful, a man films the camp just like anyone else, someone happens to notice the gun in his waistband and then he gets verbally assaulted, called a n*gger, and after he has left, the police track him down and charge him based on the testimony of the occupiers!

Notice that no one was arrested for allegedly flashing knives (which was never witnessed by anyone else, much less this story about tents being entered) and no one has bothered to interview the accused!

All this and the occupiers still don't have a message last they have said is "we don't have enough people to form a consensus yet" according to an interview of their communication coordinator. :lol:

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2011/10/officers_arrest_armed_man_at_o.html

Police arrested a man they said flashed a handgun during an argument at the Occupy Portland encampment Wednesday afternoon.

Officers responded to a report of a man arguing with others at Southwest 4th Avenue and Salmon Street next to Lownsdale Square about 3:40 p.m., said Lt. Robert King of the Portland Police Bureau. The man was gone by the time officers arrived, but witnesses told police he had a gun and walked toward Southwest 3rd Avenue and Salmon.

There, officers found Jason Charles Parker, 32, with a gun and arrested him for disorderly conduct.

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Again, the official report of this event is only with one side of the story.

No one bothered to interview the accused, who was NOT brandishing his handgun in any way according to eye witnesses including a camera man for channel 8 news, and it's also interesting none of the people in the "peaceful" protest who flashed knives were arrested, only the guy that the occupiers falsely accused!

Another reason that Mayor Sam Adams is on his way out.

He still has not given any time frame in which he will evict the illegal camp, and has only now allowed the police to start enforcing alcohol and drug use laws against the campers.

After all can't tarnish the "movement" with the truth of the members of it!

Lets see there HAS to have been the same things going on at Tea Party Rallies right? *Crickets*

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2011/10/man_arrested_after_officers_fi.html

Apparently the anti occupy wallstreet corporate agenda has really started hiring forum posters to try to drown out the wallstreet message. One of the key points they try to make is that occupy wallstreet doesn't know what they want, or that it's antisemitic.

http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showthread.php?t=337848

Right, someone else hired the "communications" coordinator to say they don't have a message yet. :lol:

There is plenty of message on their website, the point is half the people going aren't sure why they are there, and more importantly don't have a plan for how to fix it.

No one is "sending" people to make antisemitic statements, that just happens to be part of the agenda of many of the groups that started this.

Just look at this website for Occupy Wallstreet:

http://occupywallst.org/

Notice how pretty and wonderful everything looks like, nice bit of propaganda, nothing to show the truth of the open sewer that the Zuccoti Park has become, nothing about the rapes, thefts and violence that this supposed "peaceful" movement has inflicted upon it's own members with such poor leadership and lack of direction, oh but this is JUST like the Tea Party rallies.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/teenager-claims-she-was-raped-at-the-occupy-cleveland-protest/

She apparently alleges that “rally personnel” at Occupy Cleveland told her to share a tent with the suspect, as there was a shortage of sleeping space for the occupants. So, the girl got into the tent with a man (she claims his name is “Leland”) and went to sleep. Later, she says she woke up and the man was molesting her.

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http://news.yahoo.com/sexual-assault-thefts-hate-plague-occupy-movement-200100603.html

The victim advised a teacher at Summit Academy, a school for students with learning disabilities including Autism and Cognitive Delay (mental retardation), that she was advised to sleep in a tent with an unknown male, known only as "Leland," by organizers at the Occupy Cleveland protest due to space limitations.

The victim said that she thought "Leland" was asleep, so she climbed into her sleeping bag and went to sleep Saturday night. She said she awoke to find Leland raping her.

"We are a community group, we do not have leaders, we are a leaderless movement," protest organizer Rebecka Hawkins told Fox 8 News, without even a sense of irony.

Police in Seattle arrested an Occupy Seattle protester accused of masturbating in front of children, more than once, as per the Seattle PI.

Police arrested the unnamed man (as of this writing) at approximately 1 a.m. Monday at his Kenmore residence, charging him with multiple offenses of Indecent Exposure.

"During the course of their investigation, detectives discovered that the suspect had been at Westlake Park, participating in Occupy Wall Street," Seattle Police Detective Renee Witt said in a statement.

New York Police arrested David Park, according to nbcconnecticut.com, last week for the sexual assaults of several women protesting in Zuccotti Park.

Police were notified of a sexual assault occurring at Occupy Portland (Oregon) on October 8, but were unable to locate the victim upon arrival.

Another prominent problem in the movement is theft, as reported by the New York Times.

"I had my Mac stolen -- that was like $5,500. Every night, something else is gone. Last night, our entire [kitchen] budget for the day was stolen...," Protester Nan Terrie advised.

On a personal note, I can't afford to buy a $5,500 Mac, yet I am not one of their 99%. But I digress...

The movement has had an overtly anti-Semitic tone, supported by leading Democrats the anti-Israeli Palestinian BDS and the American Nazi Party.

The American Nazi Party, a white supremacist, left-wing organization, released a letter of support on October 16, saying the ""Occupy Wall Street" fervor... has been sweeping the land like a breath of cleansing air!"

The letter continues, "...the White Working Class - is going PAST, the BOILING POINT..." referring to the mostly white Occupy movement.

President Obama recently stated the Occupy protests are not that different from Tea Party protests.

There have been over 1,000 (and counting) protesters arrested, many, many videos and photos of hatred and filth, countless incidents of violence, calls for violence, sexual assaults and thefts, etc. arising out of the Occupy movement.

There was a person that drew a Hitler mustache on a picture of Obama at a Tea Party rally.

Comparable?

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Even on that website where they try to make everything look so pretty and wonderful if you look closely even their promo video they have people with soviet communist hammer and sickle on tee-shirts.

And lets not forget the antisemitism of Ad Busters who is credited for starting this movement, but I'm sure that has nothing to do with the antisemitism displayed by many of the members of this event.

Anyone with common sense can see having a call to all and every person that can be convinced to come to the protest, even luring homeless and street thugs with cheap drugs, free health care and free food is a bad idea.

Have any of the normal people coming to these rallies really thought about what they are joining, or how they are going to be used if the organizers who claim to want something along the lines of the "Arab Spring" style rallies in this country do they not understand how violent those protests have become, the rape, and now murder of those not favored by the "peaceful" participants of the movement in Eqypt are now joining the military in Egypt to raze Christian churches and shoot peaceful protesters in the street!

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/sho...ehicles-run-over-coptic-christian-protesters/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=2Slf8nFcjQg#!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDCMXV0q5Pc&feature=player_embedded

Is it any wonder that the occupy movement in this country using similar leaderless rallies are descending into the same kind of chaos?

What makes anyone think with a "leaderless" movement lacking direction amid chaos that the worst among us will not take advantage?

Lets hope that the naive are waking up and it will not take a murder to get them to realize who and what they are getting involved with!

People are obviously very passionate about this topic, and I'm probably moderate right, so I'll try not to inflame things any further, while still trying to express my point of view.

I don't know how it is living in the US - I know it's much worse, which is why I think the Occupy Sydney protest is a bit of a joke. Let me lay out some facts for you in Australia:

If you can't work for the tiniest of medical reasons, you will receive $562.10 per week untaxed. That's about $600/week USD. While the disability pension sounds like you need to be injured, having a doctor say that you have mild depression - which he is not even treating - is enough to get you on it. While I'm sure the majority of people on the disability pension have genuine disabilities, I think they said in the first two years after raising the disability pension, but keeping the unemployment benefits the same, the number of people who were on the disability pension doubled. That's a lot of people who previously couldn't find work, suddenly found that they were suddenly medically unfit to work... Call me cynical.

If you can't find anything wrong with you, or can't find a sympathetic doctor. *cough* sorry, I mean, can't find work, you still get $486/week (Roughly $500USD) if you have no children. This is indefinite, as long as you can show that you've applied for 3 jobs a week. If you've got kids, that rises to $526. If you've got a partner, and both of you are unemployed, that rises to $880 between the two of you.

Now - the minimum wage is $589.30 per week. Yes, the difference between the disability pension and the minimum wage is about $27/week. I'm surprised we don't have 20% of our workforce on the disability pension.

When I did a 4 years honors degree, I left with a $6000 University Tuition fee loan. It's automatically taken as 1.5% of your wage until you pay it off. I paid mine off in 2 years. Doing the same course again would set me back $24,000 - but hey, 1.5% of my income per year... The average graduate here graduates on something like $50,000. Having done my course (IT) it's more like $68,000. It'll be gone in four years, and most people wouldn't even notice it out of their wage.

Now with wealth distribution. The top quintile own only 60% of the wealth. In other words, the richest 20% of the people own only 3 times the average person. We're not exactly talking princes and paupers here - are we?

In economics, they recognise that there is good and bad inequality. Bad inequality is when the rich get so rich, they control the means of production, and they prevent the poor from getting rich - that is, they prevent innovation, improvement, and all the things that inequality is MEANT to provide.

Good inequality is where if you are willing to work hard, if you have a good idea for a new product, if you have a way to do something more efficiently, you get a reward that puts you above your peers sufficiently to make it worth your while to put in the extra effort and make the rich.

Inequality in Australia is good - in fact, I think it's not unequal enough. If it is true in America, that a basic degree will set you back $60,000 and you graduate on $30,000 then I'd say that's strangling innovation - because the edge that education is giving you, isn't giving you incentive to spend the money and take the risk.

Maybe something to think about.

“AS THOUSANDS have gathered in Lower Manhattan, passionately expressing their deep discontent with the status quo, we have taken note of these protests,” wrote Lloyd Blankfein, the boss of Goldman Sachs, in a recent letter to investors. “And we have asked ourselves this question: ‘How can we make money off them?’ The answer is the newly launched Goldman Sachs Global Rage Fund.” This will invest in firms likely to benefit from social unrest, such as window repairers and makers of police batons"

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http://www.economist.com/node/21534759

As Mr Blankfein explained: “At Goldman, we recognise that the capitalist system as we know it is circling the drain—but there’s plenty of money to be made on the way down.”

The letter is a spoof, penned by Andy Borowitz, a comedian. Goldman Sachs and its peers would of course be failing in their duty to investors if they did not find opportunities in the current global turmoil. But they should also be thinking much harder about the risk posed to their business by the protests.

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I actually made an embarassing mistake in my last post - the centrelink figures were fortnightly, not weekly - the other figures are accurate. I'd heard people saying that benefits were too close to the minimum wage, and I was mildly surprised at those figures... This explains why at least!

In order to qualify for the disability support pension, you have to be assessed as being unable to work for less than 15hrs a week, for more than the next 2yrs. By both a doctor and a centrelink assessor. If they think there is a reasonable chance of recovery within 2 years, you get either newstart allowance (without the need to look for work), or sickness allowance. The centrelink assessor has the last say, not the doctor. While there are some people on the pension who dont need it (i knew one guy making $50k/yr cash on top of it) there are many who are severely, either mentally or physically, disabled - with recognition of doctors - who dont get it, simply because some random assessor thinks otherwise. Our financial support for the disabled isn't that great compared to a lot of the western world (excluding US and brits).
Essentially, the disability support pension is there for those who can't work, the payments are not outrageous for those who often have increased living expenses as well.

IIRC, Newstart allowance requires quite a more effort than 3 applications a week, at least after the first 3 months. I've watched some poor souls have to go (pretend) to look for work, at a jobsearch place, 5 days a week. They didn't make close to the minimum hourly payment rate. Newstart payment rates aren't that high either, when you consider a room in a boarding house in the outer suburbs costs $190/wk now... Do you care that these scum are able to charge more than twice the going rate for a property because people are becoming homeless? i doubt it. Dole bludging ain't what it used to be.

People will complain that someone is getting ~$13k/yr to live on because they cant find a job, and say that person has every chance they had, and their children have, then spend twice that just to give their kids a private education.

Some of the people demonstrating are doing so with the interests of others in mind, not neccessarily them, and not neccessarily Australian. The west's economic decisions affect the whole world's wellbeing.

BTW, I'll assume you've been studying for at least 4 years fulltime. You still didnt know Centrelink pays fortnightly?! I hope you have been working hard to support yourself throughout your studies, after posting that drivel... I'm gonna be presumptuous and guess you're a prince.

You joined just to rebuff my post? I'm not sure if I should be flattered or not...

I worked 2 days a week while studying, and have never been dependant on welfare. Back in 2005, they released a figure of what every man, woman and child consumes in services provided by the government. It was somewhere along the lines of $14,000. I pay about $45,000 in direct personal income tax a year - before we even consider the GST, various stamp duties, levies rates, and fees. Am I blowing my own trumpet? Take it how you will. I know that 2 people are enjoying their benefits because of the tax I pay.

Do I begrudge them? No. Not everyone got the chance to go to uni - not everyone had the aptitude. I realise that I am very fortunate, and I don't begrudge a cent I pay in tax.

HOWEVER - I do take offence when people who can't find work during a labour shortage complain the dole is too low. In the vast majority of the world, they would have already starved to death. I also take offence when I work 60 hour weeks and do at least 100 hours of professional development a year in my own time (Ha! More like study every weekend), and they tell me I'm greedy for asking $40/hour.

Let's face it. Australia is a socialist country. Our poorest still live in the top 20% of the world's population in terms of wealth. Just because you can't live where you want to live. Just because you can't afford luxuries on the dole, doesn't mean the distribution of wealth is unequal. Don't like it? I challenge you to randomly pick a country and move there and see how much better off you are. With the exception of a small number of European countries (and see where that got Greece), you'll soon realise how lucky Australia really is.

Ignoring some of the masturbation above here is another perspective.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/blogs/taibblog/owss-beef-wall-street-isnt-winning-its-cheating-20111025?source=patrick.net

Fighting against corruption is what all these protests are about. These people shouldn't be vilified for expressing justifiable anger afterall, they are the ones, like you, that are paying for other people's crimes.

We all knew this was true but now it is official and Citigroup weren't the only ones to short these investments.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/30/opinion/sunday/friedman-did-you-hear-the-one-about-the-bankers.html?_r=2

My 2 cents: http://www.cracked.com/blog/3-types-wall-street-protesters-hurting-their-own-cause/

I love that website...they are freakin funny to me. They make a good couple of points in that article about the occupy movement.

Also... I can imagine putting some of the reins of the country in worse hands than those of a USMC veteran... see the pics again.

Joseph C. said:

Fighting against corruption is what all these protests are about. These people shouldn't be vilified for expressing justifiable anger afterall, they are the ones, like you, that are paying for other people's crimes.

We all knew this was true but now it is official and Citigroup weren't the only ones to short these investments.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/30/opinion/sunday/friedman-did-you-hear-the-one-about-the-bankers.html?_r=2

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That's fair enough - and they were caught and slapped. I'm sure if they were caught again, the fine would be much bigger - until it wasn't worth doing it.

That's very different from Australia though. Despite being only 22 Million people, all of our major banks are in the Top 100 highest rated banks in the world. Our derivatives also tend to be simpler and less subject to fraud and misuse like that.

Like I said in my first post in this forum - Australia has nothing to complain about, when compared to places like the US/UK/PIIGS.

Edit: I'll add in this article if you think I'm wrong...

Australians the world's wealthiest
October 31, 2011

Despite the doom and gloom, there are reasons to be cheerful. As measured by median wealth levels, Australians are the wealthiest people in the world, says the Credit Suisse Global Wealth Report 2011, which measured the wealth of the world's 4.5 billion adults.

It found Australia's median wealth, the mid-point between the wealthiest adult and poorest, was $US222,000 ($213,800), the highest in the world.

Average wealth was $US397,000, the world's second-highest after Switzerland with $US540,000.

It is the median figure that is more meaningful because it says more about how a country's middle class is doing.

Wealth in Australia is more evenly distributed than in other countries, particularly compared to the US, which has median wealth of about $US53,000.

As Credit Suisse measured wealth in US dollars, the strength of the Aussie dollar has helped push Australia up the rankings.

But even after removing the currency affects, Australia's performance has been robust, particularly since 2000, the report says. The report also says Australian wealth is highly skewed towards real estate assets.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/executive-style/luxury/australians-the-worlds-wealthiest-20111101-1mt2r.html#ixzz1cRDbQPzx

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Still think Occupy Sydney and Occupy Melbourne have a case on their hands?

Sunder, you are once again solipsistically looking at the small picture and ignoring the bigger issues that are going to affect Australia in the coming years when other countries coming knocking on the door demanding their money.

Your national debt is now running at over $200 billion and getting worse. Your banking debt is running at over $300 billion. That's $500 billion for a country with a population of just 21 million people. That's a debt of 23,000 per every man, woman and child in Australia, debt that they had nothing to do with.

We all know how this game will play out. The pattern has now been widely established in other countries. Australia will borrow more and more money to pay for the money it has already borrowed and the problem will get worse and worse. 'Austerity measures' will be brought in bleeding the public dry of money over a prolonged period of time with more and more cuts to public spending and higher taxes.

Coupled to this will be the fact that your banks will be downgraded till eventually their debt will reach junk status causing the rate of interest on borrowings to soar and soar. This is a strategy that a three-year-old child has enough sense not to do.

We will fast forward perhaps five to ten years from now. Your country will have two options either it takes a massive devaluation of its currency in which case inflation will soar wiping out people's savings or the country defaults on its debts with the same result.

So in short, yes I do think they have valid reasons for protesting as the reality of the situation still hasn't sunk in yet and the figures you provide don't take any cognisance of the tsunamis of hardship that your country is facing.

The only country that so far demonstrated any sort of economic savvy has been the Greeks who got a 50 per cent write down off their debt and that was aided by mass striking and mass protests. As far as I can tell those protesting/striking didn't have a single coherent strategy but they were united in their cause. However, they had a much larger critical mass than any of the 'Occupy' movements.

The crazy Greeks. I have to admit I didn't see this coming at all.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/1101/breaking5.html

Australian public debt is only 22% of GDP.

Compare this to your country, which is running at 96% of GDP.

If you think that refusing to pay your debt is financial savy, I think the only thing that says a strong indictment on your character - freeloader.

Australia is no doubt not immune - it's part of a global economy ever more than before. But if you think that the "PIIGS" is going to turn into the "PIIGSA" when our debt is a quarter of yours, I think your grasp on economics is tenuous.

Sunder said:

Australian public debt is only 22% of GDP.

Compare this to your country, which is running at 96% of GDP.

If you think that refusing to pay your debt is financial savy, I think the only thing that says a strong indictment on your character - freeloader.

Australia is no doubt not immune - it's part of a global economy ever more than before. But if you think that the "PIIGS" is going to turn into the "PIIGSA" when our debt is a quarter of yours, I think your grasp on economics is tenuous.

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I hope you never get into business.

Lending is a two-way street - not just caveat emptor. Smart debtors will always write-down debt if the investment becomes problematic. If they don't, the creditor will likely to be unable to pay the loan.

So the debtor is faced with two simple choices: get paid a substantial portion of the money versus none at all. That has nothing to do with morality or character - that is simply good business practice.

My country is banjaxed and everybody in Ireland knows it. It is failed/failing on several fronts. Your attitude reminds me of the smug superiority of Irish politicians. 'We're not like the Greeks. Sure they're a basket case...'

The fact that the Greeks hid their losses for decades from creative accounting etc. is irrelevant, as is their character. The reality is that they are working on getting the best deal for their country which in reality is the best deal for the EU in the longer term.

The figures don't lie. You may not have as much banking debt (which has got nothing to do with the Irish public, or the Australian public either) but you're headed in the same direction and you will see that once you get past your supercilious, sanctimonious condescension.

I think you've confused debtors with creditors.

And yes, a creditor who negotiates 50% payment from a bankrupt debtor is smart.

But a debtor who threatens a creditor with default unless they can negotiate a 50% payment reduction is already morally bankrupt.

Maybe you're right, and Australia is using creative accounting. However, that's somewhat of a weak argument, because it's based on a supposition that can't be proven. What can be proven is that:

We've been at or past full employment for years now, and have loosened work visa conditions - yes, even to desperate Irish (see below) - as there are not enough people to fill roles.

We've got the developed world's highest interest rates, as the Reserve struggles with demand pull inflation from basic labourers earning well into the six digit figures - because employers have no choice but pay them to attract workers.

We've been bouncing off post float record high exchange rates, as countries are paying us record prices for our exports.

We've also had our all time ever best terms of trade.

Unlike the Greeks hiding their expenditure using creative accounting, these are difficult things to hide.

Maybe I am smug. Or maybe I just realise Australia is the lucky country, and tying it back to the original point - those who live here, and are protesting, have lost sight of the fact that Australia has it pretty damn good.

RTE News Report about Increase in Irish emigrating to Australia 2011 PDF Print E-mail

Adrian Lydon talks to some of the thousands of Irish who are setting up home in Sydney, Australia.

It is fast earning the name of County Bondi because of the tens of thousands of Irish that are setting up home in and around one of the world's most famous beaches.

Bondi used to be a big backpacker haunt.

Now, due to the recession in Ireland the Irish are no longer coming here to travel. Instead, they are setting up home in Bondi and the surrounding suburbs of Bondi Junction, Bronte and Randwick and seeking work in an economy that is at full employment.

Australia is one of a few countries that has not entered recession and with one of the lowest unemployment rates in the world, work is plenty.

There is a major skills shortage especially for those with a background in medicine, nursing, engineering and construction.

Over the next few years, Australia will require tens of thousands of skilled migrants, which is good news for any of the unemployed Irish who are thinking of emigrating Down Under, or the tens of thousands who are there already.

Travel anywhere in Australia and you will come across the Irish, especially those who are under 30 and on the two-year working holiday visa.

It is estimated that there are 30,000 on this type of visa alone. This figure doesn't take into account the thousands who are on sponsored visas, which are organised by employers.

Because of the huge influx of Irish, we compiled a number of reports on those who have emigrated to Australia and what life is like there.

The first report looks at changes to Australia's immigration policy, which should make it easier for the Irish to get more permanent resident visas. The changes come into effect on 1 July next.

The report also looks at the increasing numbers who are remaining in Australia illegally because their two-year working visa has expired.

The second report looks at the booming construction industry in and around Sydney.

While men with previous experience in construction are having no difficulty getting work, Irish women can find it hard to get a job. That is why many women are working as traffic controllers on construction sites. The money is good and according to Tyrone native Briege Daly, 'you get a tan and get to look at men work all day.'

The final report looks at the lack of facilities for the nine GAA clubs across Sydney. We spend an evening training with the largest club, Michael Cusack's.

Despite having over 150 members, they have no facilities and only get to train in a corner of a public park each Tuesday night.

The clubs believe that they are making a big contribution in keeping the Irish together, but are critical of the Government and the GAA at home for not helping them with funding or any sort of assistance in trying to secure proper facilities for the thousands of Irish who will now remain in Australia long into the future.

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Sunder said:

I think you've confused debtors with creditors.

And yes, a creditor who negotiates 50% payment from a bankrupt debtor is smart.

But a debtor who threatens a creditor with default unless they can negotiate a 50% payment reduction is already morally bankrupt.

Maybe you're right, and Australia is using creative accounting. However, that's somewhat of a weak argument, because it's based on a supposition that can't be proven. What can be proven is that:

We've been at or past full employment for years now, and have loosened work visa conditions - yes, even to desperate Irish (see below) - as there are not enough people to fill roles.

We've got the developed world's highest interest rates, as the Reserve struggles with demand pull inflation from basic labourers earning well into the six digit figures - because employers have no choice but pay them to attract workers.

We've been bouncing off post float record high exchange rates, as countries are paying us record prices for our exports.

We've also had our all time ever best terms of trade.

Unlike the Greeks hiding their expenditure using creative accounting, these are difficult things to hide.

Maybe I am smug. Or maybe I just realise Australia is the lucky country, and tying it back to the original point - those who live here, and are protesting, have lost sight of the fact that Australia has it pretty damn good.

RTE News Report about Increase in Irish emigrating to Australia 2011 PDF Print E-mail

Adrian Lydon talks to some of the thousands of Irish who are setting up home in Sydney, Australia.

It is fast earning the name of County Bondi because of the tens of thousands of Irish that are setting up home in and around one of the world's most famous beaches.

Bondi used to be a big backpacker haunt.

Now, due to the recession in Ireland the Irish are no longer coming here to travel. Instead, they are setting up home in Bondi and the surrounding suburbs of Bondi Junction, Bronte and Randwick and seeking work in an economy that is at full employment.

Australia is one of a few countries that has not entered recession and with one of the lowest unemployment rates in the world, work is plenty.

There is a major skills shortage especially for those with a background in medicine, nursing, engineering and construction.

Over the next few years, Australia will require tens of thousands of skilled migrants, which is good news for any of the unemployed Irish who are thinking of emigrating Down Under, or the tens of thousands who are there already.

Travel anywhere in Australia and you will come across the Irish, especially those who are under 30 and on the two-year working holiday visa.

It is estimated that there are 30,000 on this type of visa alone. This figure doesn't take into account the thousands who are on sponsored visas, which are organised by employers.

Because of the huge influx of Irish, we compiled a number of reports on those who have emigrated to Australia and what life is like there.

The first report looks at changes to Australia's immigration policy, which should make it easier for the Irish to get more permanent resident visas. The changes come into effect on 1 July next.

The report also looks at the increasing numbers who are remaining in Australia illegally because their two-year working visa has expired.

The second report looks at the booming construction industry in and around Sydney.

While men with previous experience in construction are having no difficulty getting work, Irish women can find it hard to get a job. That is why many women are working as traffic controllers on construction sites. The money is good and according to Tyrone native Briege Daly, 'you get a tan and get to look at men work all day.'

The final report looks at the lack of facilities for the nine GAA clubs across Sydney. We spend an evening training with the largest club, Michael Cusack's.

Despite having over 150 members, they have no facilities and only get to train in a corner of a public park each Tuesday night.

The clubs believe that they are making a big contribution in keeping the Irish together, but are critical of the Government and the GAA at home for not helping them with funding or any sort of assistance in trying to secure proper facilities for the thousands of Irish who will now remain in Australia long into the future.

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Yes, I meant creditors not debtors. I should have noticed that earlier.

I never said that Australia was using creative accounting. I did say that the Greeks were and that is fact not supposition.

You know, what you are saying about Australia sounds exactly like Ireland five or six years ago. A booming export market (that is still actually going strong) but year-in-year-out we kept accumulating more and more debt that was swept under the carpet.

I see your budget deficit is growing likewise and will continue to grow. I'm certainly not saying that Australia is as daft as Ireland was buying the country from one another but there are signs there too.

Of course this may not happen. If you get into difficulty China could conceivably come in and buy your debt in exchange for assets which no doubt they will pay for with the over-inflated U.S. dollar that they bought realising its true value and are currently offloading with foreign assets.

Comparatively-speaking all western countries are better off than developing ones. But really we shouldn't be comparing ourselves with the less-well-off. We should have higher standards than that.

As for the Greeks being 'morally bankrupt' I don't think you understand what would have happened to Greek citizens if they accepted those terms. They would have been bleed dry and eventually huge portions of their population would drop well below the poverty line. They are in survival mode and that trumps ethics.

We are already starting to see the effects of austerity in Ireland and the weakest (those with the smallest political lobby) are being picked off first. The carer's allowance has been obliterated. These are people who look after the disabled and infirm for what was previously a pittance. The same disabled who you vilified by proxy in one of your earlier posts.

As for Australia being a socialist country. There is not a thing wrong with socialism as a concept. Virtually 99 per cent of the people on this forum display varying forms of socialist leanings whether they realise it or not. The fact of human life is that people care about other people. They always have and always will. The only people that don't care about other people are antisocial.

As long as society allows a balance between the personal values of the altruist, egotist and entrepreneur then we will be all right. Imbalances favouring one or two at the expense of the other are unhealthy.