Nishik-E Road Bike Build (TongXin MidDrive)

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Nishik-E Road Bike Build (TongXin MidDrive)

Postby amberwolf » Sat Oct 29, 2011 6:34 am

By a VERY strange coincidence, I decided to start working on making this bike rideable just one day short of exactly a year since acquiring it and planning to turn it into a backup bike.

For the moment, this is just a normal bike, as I work out which way to power it. Most likely it'll be a boring hubmotor bike with a front Fusin geared hub, but I might make it a light-assist friction or chaindrive, powered from a pancake-style axial-flux brushed radiator fan motor I have, thru a Matex (currie) planetary reduction (or two).

This is how it started life with me, as a thrift store find:
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It's a Nishiki, Taiwan-made instead of Japanese made, so at the cheaper end of their era. Pinnacle, Cunningham Design, whatever that means.
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It had this cycle computer hanging off of it (the mount was broken):
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and it had this kit in it's underseat bag:
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The tires are shot, from what appears to be dry rot:
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They're not very worn (nothing on the bike is).
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The thick tube in the rear was toast, but the front thin one is fine. They also both have a kind of tire liner I've never seen.
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Typical 80s Shimano stuff, Deore XT, but something I'd never seen before is that even the *cable housings* were marked by Shimano:
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It has my favorite chainrings, the BioPace. These are aluminum, while most of the ones I've seen and have are steel.
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The cranks are too long for me, at 175mm:
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so I might see if I have any shorter ones that will still let me mount the BioPace rings on them.

QR wheels, but the front also has retainers that can be screwed to the fender mounts.
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It's all cromoly, and double-butted, too.
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The fork is also cromoly, with vbrake bosses (and brakes)
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Brakes and shifters all work ok.
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Rims are nice Araya doublewall
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Saddle is a Deep Groove Design by Serfas; can't say I like it much.
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Odd way of routing the cable; has a curved steel tube embedded into the stem. I wanted to use a totally different stem and riser that is adjustable, but it was for a 1 1/8" steerer, and this only has room for 1" ones, and these brakes need the stop that is in the stem. Another stem I wanted to use wouldn't work because the stop in it feeds from the top, and the cable housing wouldn't be long enough--and no other housing I have is big enough diameter inside for the very thick brake cables this biek has.
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Re: Nishiki Road Bike Build

Postby amberwolf » Sat Oct 29, 2011 7:10 am

Now tonight I simply did basic maintenance on it, changed out the tires and tube (keeping the odd liners in the new tires), etc. I used the tires a friend gave me from a Landrider after he changed them out. They're still pretty new, just not the style he wanted. These are Kenda, very similar to the style that my DayGlo Avenger originally came with when it was a Columbia comfort bike, but with knobbier edges.


I added fenders, which I'd originally got from the junk bin at Build-A-Bike so I could put them on CrazyBike2. But CB2 won't fit them properly and didnt' have mounting points, so I didn't put them on. They were then going to go on my new bike build, but since it is delayed I'm using them on here for now.

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A bit of interference to the rear rack reflector, though:
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Will need a wider but less tall reflector to fix that.

I also added the rack off a heavy junky Mongoose, which I bought nearly a year ago from a thrift store solely becuase it had the rack and a disk brake front suspension fork, as well as a number of other usable components.
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Mounting the rack was a bit of a challenge, as I think it is missing the correct front hardware, and I had to do a bit of fiddling to make the stuff that was with it work around the brake cable bosses on the seatstays
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I moved the handlebar bag off of The Velcro Eclipse to this bike, just to have more carrying space without adding my usual big boxes on the sides.
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I am considering changing out this:
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for the autoshifter from the Landrider:
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I don't have time ATM for making up a headlight and stuff, so for now it just gets a flashlight hoseclamped to the headtube, and another with a red gel on the left rear dropout area:
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Since it didn't come with a kickstand, I moved the one Auraslip sent me that I'd had on DayGlo Avenger over to this one. On DGA it can't hold the bike up becuase of stuff in teh pod on the side, but this bike it holds up fine because it is all centered.
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it is *just* tall enough to take the front wheel off the ground a teensy bit.

But the mounting isn't stable, and can pivot. I need to groove out the top end of the stand to catch the chainstays, and then build a little plate for the top to use instead of these washers, which slip:
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I dind't have time to mount the mirror yet, before I got too tired to keep working on it, but this is how it will be for now:
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A rearview mirror from the windshield of the Ford I had to get rid of, clamped to a bar-end using an aluminum accessory clamp off a Quickie wheelchair. The bar end gets mounted nearly parallel to the ground, forward pointing, so the mirror is vertical and adjustable a bit for best viewing.
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This is the battery bag off The Velcro Eclipse
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and while it fits the bottle mounts fine here, too, just like on TVE, it is in the way of pedalling unlike how it had been on TVE.
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So I left it off for now. I will probably find a different bag to use that's narrower or can be hung from the top tube. And also one that matches the colors on this bike a bit better. :)


One thing that makes me leery of trying the Fusin front hubmotor on here is these tiny dropouts:
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because I had a few issues with the nearly identical ones on TVE, using the 9C.

Heck, even on DGA's wider dropouts, I had problems with the Fusin when powered sufficiently
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Finally though, I have a bike that can pull a "normal" trailer:
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Although I still ahve to add the deck to the trailer, and a box underneath that for more stuff,
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I also have another kennel that will be boltable to this trailer; it's a slightly bigger kennel than the one on the other trailer. It will go in place of the curved metal tubes
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THere are some issues with this trailer, though, especially in turns
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A sharp right or left turn is not possible without wheelstrike for rightturns, or reaching the limit of bending of the spring/polymer pivot on leftturns.
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I would like to make a better hitch or at least better pivot point plaement, behind the rear wheel, but that will require fabricating a new part for the rear frame to do that. For now, it just clamps to the left chainstay, just forward of the dropout.
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Re: Nishiki Road Bike Build

Postby texaspyro » Sun Oct 30, 2011 8:37 pm

To the Pod People that have abducted Amberwolf... we are on to your game. A bike without at least one roll of duct tape on it and no Day Glo paint... come now... you can do a better impersonation better than that. :twisted: Now go and give us our real Amberwolf back.
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Re: Nishiki Road Bike Build

Postby SamTexas » Sun Oct 30, 2011 8:49 pm

texaspyro wrote:To the Pod People that have abducted Amberwolf... we are on to your game. A bike without at least one roll of duct tape on it and no Day Glo paint... come now... you can do a better impersonation better than that. :twisted: Now go and give us our real Amberwolf back.

+1!
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Re: Nishiki Road Bike Build

Postby amberwolf » Sun Oct 30, 2011 11:02 pm

It's got hose clamps; they'll have to count as duct tape for now. :lol:

I rode it around for a while yesterday afternoon, testing and adjusting things. It rides pretty well, but I am so used to CrazyBike2's semi-recumbent position that I don't much like uprights any more. Well, I never did like them but now I like them even less, knowing how much more comfortable and stable I could be. :)

The frame is definitely a bit tall for me, but it is a bit better fit than the Schwinn Sierra from the same era. I considered for a few minutes changing the wheels to 24", but half the reason I wanted this bike is because of the Araya double-wall rims...whcih I won't have if I go 24". I do have one of the Fusin cases laced up in a 24" rim, which I had used on CrazyBike2 when first reviving it as a hubmotor bike, and I have other 24" wheels I can fix or build to put on the rear. I think that I will probably do that to the Schwinn Sierra, rather than this one. This one will probably just stay as my "normal" pedal-only emergency backup bike. Maybe.

I keep telling myself I need to have one, and never keep any of them together, taking bits off to fix my electric ones or turn them into other projects. :roll:

So, to that end, I will likely end up making the trailer in the pics above into a pusher trailer. Batteries in a box below the frame, deck on the frame that can also have the other kennel bolted to it for dog transport. (it's larger than the kennel on my existing kennel trailer).

I will also probably work out a bolt-on friction drive or something, that can be moutned on this bike for light assist, since right now I really don't just go joyriding a whole lot anymore, and I should. As much as I like my other electric bikes, I keep ending up making them big and heavy and cumbersome, and I think that's keeping me from just going out to ride. Partly because I have had so many problems with them when I'm far from home and have to fix them or pedal the monstrosities 10-20 miles back that I just don't want to deal with it. That hasn't happened in a long time, but it could, and I'd rather have a much lighter bike to do that with if I am just dinking around with no specific purpose, and no intent to haul anything home.


So if anyone has some suggestions on turning one of the radiator fan motors I used to use on DayGlo Avenger into a useful friction drive that's easily bolted on and taken off, I'd be interested in reading them. For reference, this is what they look like:
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and this is how they were used on DGA:
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Does that have enough duct tape for ya? ;)
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and this is why they aren't on there anymore, cuz one of them broke a shaft due to flex from my improper mounting and tensioning methods:
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Re: Nishiki Road Bike Build

Postby floatingdog » Sun Oct 30, 2011 11:28 pm

Nice ride. I like the XT shifters.

Just guessing, but Cunningham design may be in reference to Randy Cunningham.

http://cunninghamcycles.com/history
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Re: Nishiki Road Bike Build

Postby amberwolf » Mon Oct 31, 2011 2:12 am

According to the things I've seen when googling this bike to find out more about it when I got it, it was a "Richard Cunningham" that was a design consultant to Nishiki at the time, and apparently primarily the Nishiki "Alien" was the more well-known bike with his name on it.

This google image search shows primarily the Alien frame, but somewhere in there are a couple like mine (one with a similar paint job, but I can't find it now...it has dayglo pink circles and stuff where on mine it's faded to look the same color that glow-in-the-dark paint tends to look in the light, you know that faintly greenish-white?).


I also like the XT thumbshifters; I used the same type on CrazyBike2. I preferred them over gripshifters because they'll go on the non-straight bars better, *and* can be used in non-indexed mode for any number of sprockets on the rear. Works ok even on a six-speed even though it's for a 7, IIRC.


On the Nishiki, it's a 7-speed rear cassette and a 7-speed shifter.

The landrider autoshifter is also for a 7-speed, and so I am going to try it out on there in place of the shiftable derailer. I wish the Landrider autoshifter was also manually shiftable, but it isn't made to be, and I'm not sure I could modify it to be without damaging it. It is basically an old Falcon derailer design, with the autoshifter stuff added on, and the manual shifting stuff left off the die-cast molds and stamps.
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Re: Nishiki Road Bike Build

Postby amberwolf » Tue Nov 01, 2011 2:38 am

Played around with some battery moutning options. I have two NiMH pack types that I might use, since this won't likely be a long-range bike given that it has a saddle and not a recumbent seat. ;)

The first is the 48V 13Ah from IanMcnally:
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It won't fit in the frame as it is now, but if I were to take one set of four cells off the end of one half the pack, and stick them on top of the packs instead, it would just barely fit then. To allow for mounting brackets and whatnot, I'd have to take two sets of four cells off, or one set from each pack.
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I also have a case meant for two 18-20Ah SLA on a powerchair, which happens to be exactly the right size inside for these packs (well, assuming I cut out the little ridges in the cover, which would normally press down on the tops of the SLA to keep them from rattling around).
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It happens to be slotted in the middle so it could fit over a bike frame, sort of, but it gets in the way of my knees. If I push it far enough forward that it interferes less with my knees, it interferes with the handlebar stem.
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It *could* be placed in front of the bars, if I built a bracket to hang from the bars and push back and down on the fork crown.
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Or I could use the 36V 9Ah pack in the frame:
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It'd be nice if it would fit in the handlebar bag, but it's too big and heavy. A couple of LiPo bricks would fit great and probalby give me the same capacity as this pack, but I don't have any of those yet.

I could still make a battery box for the bars that *would* hold it, or adapt something else I already have, but these were all just quickie ideas.


More about that fan motor:

I dug it out, along with the planetaries, so here is a shot of it bare, with the roller taken off of it in the lower right corner:
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The roller itself is a bit worse for wear, but still useable
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These are the Matex / Currie planetaries, which are about 4:1 each. Slightly different depending on whether you take the output off the outer ring or the planetary, but close enough to 4:1 for guesstimates. :)
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This is how they'd stack up if I put both on the motor for 16:1 reduction (whcih is probably what I would do):
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To do that I'd need to make the D-shaft to spline adapter to take the planetary output of the first and couple it to the input of the sun gear on the next one. Also have to make a ring to couple the two outer rings together, and bolt them to the motor mount plate to hold them stationary. Then make a spline adapter for the final output to whatever drive mechanism I use.

Most likely that would be a #25 chain, since I have a very tiny sprocket (11T? I can use on that output, run that to anything from a 40-something T to a 144T ring, either directly on teh rear wheel or to the pedal drivetrain if I want to be able to shift gears.

This is not much of a motor, so it wouldnt' be able to supply high power levels; thru the gears would be ideal for it. As a friction drive motor, on 36V 12Ah SLA, evne paired with a second identical one it got pretty danged hot (enough to boil water poured on it!) running DayGLo Avenger even for the short distances (a few miles) that I had batteyr power for. And that's with pedaling!

So it would help a little bit, but wouldn't be usable without pedalling, too.
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Re: Nishiki Road Bike Build

Postby amberwolf » Tue Nov 01, 2011 3:07 am

YT finally finished uploading these two short vids. First is of the motor running on 12V SLA with one planetary on it's shaft:


Next is just a demonstration of the planetary in operation, by hand, so you can see the gears move inside.
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Re: Nishiki Road Bike Build

Postby texaspyro » Wed Nov 02, 2011 10:24 pm

Nice to see that you escaped the evil pod people aliens... did they use The Probe on you? :twisted:
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Re: Nishiki Road Bike Build

Postby amberwolf » Thu Nov 03, 2011 12:35 am

I'm not sure, but I hurt in places I didn't know I had places.

That might just be my age, though. Or being stepped on by a St. Bernard every day as a wakeup alarm.
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Re: Nishiki Road Bike Build

Postby liveforphysics » Thu Nov 03, 2011 3:20 am

Looks like a well made quality bike frame with decent components. Glad to see it having a second chance at being used in life.

I look forward to seeing the end product. :-)
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Re: Nishiki Road Bike Build

Postby amberwolf » Thu Nov 03, 2011 3:46 am

Which end product? :lol:

It's not like I ever actually *finish* anything...it just stops getting used after I run out of ways to change it that aren't easier/better to do on a different platform. :roll:

I've already come up with a bunch of ways to "improve" it, but they all involve such major changes that I'd rather do them to another bike, cuz this is pretty much the very nicest bike I have ever owned (the next best being the very similar and same-era Schwinn Sierra, and the next best after that probably the Columbia that DayGlo Avenger is based on).

Yet...I can't *not* put a motor on it! :lol:
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Re: Nishiki Road Bike Build

Postby amberwolf » Tue Dec 27, 2011 2:14 pm

I've been pondering, and at this point I think I am going to use 10s 5Ah RC LiPo (from Mdd0127) in a front handlebar bag (along with the controller) to power the tiny little TongXin motor (from Drewjet)
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =2&t=25188
on a type of BB drive.

I'm still working out the details of the drive, but will probably be basing it on a couple of the similar drives on ES. The TongXin itself will be used with a single sprocket rather than the cluster here:
Image

The bag I just got from work as a reward for doing my job, kinda like the red bag I used for NiMH on The Velcro Eclipse but about twice as big, and black (so it can color-scheme with this bike). Will go back and add a pic later, but am about to head off for work right now.

The 10s is two 5s 5Ah Zippy packs
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=34661
Image
and maybe could be higher series later if I can get the two bad-cell 6s packs also in that thread fixed, by taking out the dead cells.

Controller is likely to be either the Lyen 6FET currently on DGA (which would probably be replaced by the Fusin 48V 6FET), or one of the 12FETs from Mdd0127 if I can fix them. Smaller is better for this use. If it works at lower voltages, I might just use the Fusin 48V instead, or possibly the older Fusin 36V, but I think the LVC on both of them is too high to get as much out of these packs as I need, at 10s.
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Re: Nishiki Road Bike Build

Postby amberwolf » Wed Dec 28, 2011 5:21 am

Pic of bag,
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and a possible motor location (but would be VERY close fit, and I'd have to lose the fender).
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Motor axle is too long to fit in the triangle or below it, anywhere near the pedals, and I don't want to cut the axle in case I decide later I want to use it as an actual hub.
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Looks more and more like I'd have to come up with a contraption based on that brushed radiator fan motor and planetaries, which isnt' as "stealth" as I was hoping for on this bike, or else sacrifice some of the "originalness" of the bike by relacing one of the wheels onto either a Fusin (front) or the TongXin (rear). Not sure I have the right spokes for either.

The Fusins I have that aren't in use were wound for 48V to get about 20-23MPH, so at the 36V-ish levels I'd have with 10s LiPo I wouldn't get full speed out of them, and I'd have to use the 36V version of the Fusin 6FET controller or else use the Lyen 6FET currently on DGA. Or go to one of the 12FETs, but they're not needed on a light bike like this, and would be twice as hard to find room for.


I'm beginning to actually consider leaving this bike as just a pedal bike.... :shock:

Right this moment, if I had the little bits and bobs needed to use this dented-up Giant NRS XTC frame with four-bar rear linkage,
Giant NRS DSC05376.JPG
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I think I would begin building something to motorize it, instead of this one...thankfully I am missing a few key parts to even use the frame, such as bolts/spacers to fit any of the shocks I have in the rear linkage, a derailer hanger, etc.

Maybe for now I should concentrate on some way to finish up the other cargo bike build. Then again, I kinda still want a "normal" looking bike that has a motor, so I can get people to try riding it (most of them won't even try my other two contraptions, DayGlo Avenger and CrazyBike2, cuz they don't look quite normal).
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Re: Nishiki Road Bike Build

Postby amberwolf » Sun Jan 01, 2012 11:08 pm

I had a sudden flash of memory about the TongXin, in that both axles can be removed from it; they're held on by screws thru mounting plates welded to the axles. So...if I leave the casing off (which makes it both significantly narrower and smaller diameter),
DSC05580.JPG
DSC05580.JPG (30.11 KiB) Viewed 2936 times


and take off the axles, I could easily fit it between the cranks, even including mounting plates and a gearing/chain mount to get power to the BB chainrings.
DSC05583.JPG
DSC05583.JPG (50.67 KiB) Viewed 2936 times


It only adds a little bit of width (maybe a cm at most, seems less) to put the clutch on, which means I wouldn't have to pedal the motor when not using power. (assuming the clutch is free in the right direction for a BB drive arrangement; I haven't worked that out yet).
DSC05587.JPG
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It is probably too much width if I add both the clutch and the freewheel-threaded case side:
DSC05586.JPG
DSC05586.JPG (62.55 KiB) Viewed 2936 times


So in theory, all I have to make is:
--a mounting plate for the left side that lets me affix the motor to the frame; it would just bolt in via the six holes the left axle used to bolt to.
DSC05581.JPG
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--a small plate to secure the planetaries and roller bearings in place, with a small stub "axle" to bolt to the rightside mounting plate to support that end of hte motor (wouldn't need any resistance to rotation, as that is done on the left side).
DSC05582.JPG
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--A small plate to bolt to both a chainring and to the motor's clutch output side (via the six holes that would normally hold it to the hub casing).
DSC05588.JPG
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Then it is a matter of working out the cleanest simplest way of reliably mounting that assemblage to the Nishiki's frame so the chain can reach the BB chainrings (probably to the smallest ring, the 24T, which I would need to change out to a round version instead of the ovoid that's on there now).

I could even fit it up between the wheel and the seatstay/seattube, but it'd still be too big to fit with the fender. :(
DSC05585.JPG
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So i might go ahead and make this thing anyway...if I find time to make the mounting plates and stuff.
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Re: Nishiki Road Bike Build

Postby amberwolf » Wed Jan 04, 2012 2:31 am

A kind of summary of current plans:

Basically, I'm just bolting the left end of the motor to my mounting bracket, as that end doesn't turn.

Then the right end gets a small plate and stub shaft. The plate screws to the planetary mounting so that it can hold those loose bearings in, and the stub shaft just sticks out of the clutch far enough to bolt onto the right side mounting bracket to provide support at that end. If no bracing is needed on that side, I don't even have to have that, but it owuld probalby be best. The axle could be used for this, but I see no reason to cut a perfectly good axle when I can almost certainly make what's needed out of other junk I have laying around.


A sprocket gets bolted to the clutch, with something from the mounting plate pressing it against the planetary face or I just tack weld it in a few places, so it can't come off by accident. Or drill the pins out and replace them with threaded bolts I can screw the clutch to the planetary with. I'm not entirely sure if the clutch even operates in the correct direction to make this work; I might have to flip the motor left-to-right and drive a separate sprocket on the left side crank (like the stokemonkey does).


While having the hub casing on there would help with keeping environmental contamination out of the motor, it also increases it's size significantly in width and diameter. It also greatly increases the heat buildup in the motor, because there is no direct ventilation possible with it on there, and there's a whole other layer of thermal insulation between the motor and the outside world that way. I'm willing to live with potential contamination vs the heat and size issues. :)
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Re: Nishiki Road Bike Build (TongXin MidDrive)

Postby amberwolf » Wed Jan 04, 2012 4:53 pm

A bit more pondering and a couple pics today before work. I verified the clutch should work in the right direction--freewheeling when driven clockwise from outside (pedals), driving the outside clockwise when driven by the motor.


The whole thing is quite narrow without the casing around it, or axles on it. Definitely enough to completely fit between the cranks; even narrow enough to fit between just the right edge of the frame and the inside of the left crank!

The green thing is a box knife placed between the left end of the motor and the crank just so the motor wouldn't fall off the frame while I took the pic.
DSC05595.JPG
DSC05595.JPG (46.27 KiB) Viewed 2903 times


The space to the right of the clutch is just enough for an old belt drive I have around here somewhere, which I'll post in once I find it. I don't think the ratio is right, so I might not be able to use it unless I have very high voltage, but I'm not sure. I suppose I could skip the planetary and clutch to use the belt, which is like 8:1 or 10:1, but I'd rather use the planetary and clutch if it came to that. I thought I had other smallish belt stuff around but can't find it, either.

SO instead I'll probably use a chain drive, most likely two 24T chainrings. I am pretty sure I have some 24T off a rear cassette with six slotted holes in them, that might just line up iwth the bolt holes on the clutch, if I'm lucky. Then another regular 24T in place of the ovoid one on the Shimano cranks.

An angle shot from above/forward/right of the BB. I probably won't put the motor there, though, since it would stick out like a sore thumb, and I think I'd like to leave the triangle empty to put a small cargo bag there.
DSC05596.JPG
DSC05596.JPG (50.2 KiB) Viewed 2903 times



Instead, I am thinking that if I leave off the kickstand (and use one off the rear wheel dropout instead, or something like that), the motor could bolt on there.
DSC05598.JPG
DSC05598.JPG (95.01 KiB) Viewed 2903 times


There's plenty of clearance to the rear tire, and I could put a smallish plastic shroud around the motor to keep most of the tire-puke off of it while still letting lots of airflow thru. From the right side I'm not even sure you'd notice it was there:
DSC05597.JPG
DSC05597.JPG (55.14 KiB) Viewed 2903 times

though from the left it might be obvious.


The only bike modification I have to make for all this is to lock the front derailer out from the inner chainring (screw adjustment should be enough), and change the 24T to round instead of ovoid. Everything else can stay the same.

Cabling; it shouldn't need big thick cables, so I'm going to go with the thinnest stuff I have laying around that will not melt. If I can get the sensorless 12FET to work, I'll probably use that, so I only have to run 3 wires down there, and evertyhing else will be up on the bars from that black bag. Should be able to run it on the bottom of the downtube.
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Re: Nishiki Road Bike Build (TongXin MidDrive)

Postby amberwolf » Thu Jan 05, 2012 3:40 am

Spent a bit of time tonight trying to revive a sensorless 12FET from Mdd0127, but I can't get a peep out of it at 41V (RC Lipo 10s) or 56.4V (CrazyBike2's current pack). It does power on and gets 5V in all the important places, but that's it.

DSC05602.JPG
DSC05602.JPG (59.69 KiB) Viewed 2895 times



The 4110 FETs all test good, all tested resistance-wise onboard, and the questionable Phase C (blue) I also removed and tested individually with the Fluke DMM that goes high enough on Ohm range voltage to turn the gate on after a few seconds, allowing me to test their on and off states, and that they do indeed switch. They all match the behavior of a new/unused 4110 in teh same test, so they are probably good.

So possibilities:
--it is not "set" to sensorless (it does have a hall connector, but I didn't hook it up) if such is possible
--FET driver(s) are toast
--I haven't yet given it enough juice to overcome the LVC
--MCU is toast
--??

No more time to work on it for now. Maybe in a few days?

I can test if the MCU works by flashing it's settings with XPD or Lyen's software (it is a Lyen controller, AFAICT from the label), as I have a programming adapter from Lyen. Of course, if something is wrong somewhere else that causes a problem with flashing, I guess it could *make* the MCU toast...but it is at least a relatively simple test. :)


Oh, and this is that belt drive I mentioned:
DSC05599.JPG
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DSC05600.JPG
DSC05600.JPG (46.29 KiB) Viewed 2895 times


DSC05601.JPG
DSC05601.JPG (52.67 KiB) Viewed 2895 times
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Re: Nishiki Road Bike Build (TongXin MidDrive)

Postby amberwolf » Wed Jan 11, 2012 1:35 am

Pondered some today: I found no 24T that I can directly bolt to the clutch, but I did find one I can pretty easily (well, relatively easily) file six notches into that will then be secured by the screws threaded into the clutch's boltholes. If I use a little hard tubular spacer over each bolt to prevent thread-stripping/shearing by the thin 24T, it should hold the chainring in place well enough.
DSC05630.JPG
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DSC05629.JPG
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Unfortunately I havent' found a 24T round ring that will fit my BioPace ovoid ring cranks' inner BCD yet. It is apparently a lot larger than the BCD of the typical Shimano (or other) 24T rings.
DSC05631.JPG
DSC05631.JPG (83.44 KiB) Viewed 2854 times



So I will probably wind up just having to pull off the BioPace rings entirely and go with fully round rings. :(
DSC05633.JPG
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Didnt' want to do that because the BioPace make it easier for me to pedal with my knees the way they are, so if I did have to put significant power in myself, I might be able to. I can't really do that nearly as well with the round rings, without more knee pain.

So what I might end up doing is using that other crank there in the pic with the round 24T on the lefthand side...but I won't be able to use the motor's clutch, if I do. :( It turns the wrong way. Or rather, I could, but only if I use the whole motor housing, so I can "move" the clutch output to the left side, and that makes it all too complex and large, and means I have to cut the axles, etc. So...almost certainly won't use the leftside crank drive.


I think I found a part of the bracket I'll use to mount the motor:
DSC05636.JPG
DSC05636.JPG (38.73 KiB) Viewed 2854 times


It's from an old shifter assembly from a van, I think it was. There are two of those plates (can't find the other ATM) and the shifter arm would be between them, with a ball-bearing and spring that holds it into the detent holes. Anyway, I'd be bolting another heavy/thick steel plate to it's "top", where that long angled bit is, and that plate would then be clamped to the bike frame's chainstays just behind the BB. It should be stiff enough to resist torque as the motor pulls on the chain. I hope. :)
DSC05635.JPG
DSC05635.JPG (52.22 KiB) Viewed 2854 times




Next are some reference pics so I can draw up things around them later. Back of motor (which will bolt to that plate), then front of motor (actually the clutch) that will bolt to the chainring, then front of the motor's planetary that will need a plate on it to retain the bearings for those planetaries.
DSC05637.JPG
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DSC05638.JPG
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DSC05639.JPG
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As a completely irrelevant aside, that 24T at the start of the post came off this old Falcon unit that has much larger freewheel unit diameter than the ones typically seen today.
DSC05626.JPG
DSC05626.JPG (63.85 KiB) Viewed 2854 times


Interestingly enough, the outer thread-on sprocket of this one has some threads on it's inside (for the smallest outside sprocket that I may have lost)
DSC05627.JPG
DSC05627.JPG (65.57 KiB) Viewed 2854 times



that exactly match the threads on another newer smaller Falcon unit:
DSC05628.JPG
DSC05628.JPG (81.8 KiB) Viewed 2854 times



which would allow me to thread them together, and they'd freewheel in opposite directions, but both be able to thread onto bike hubs. For what purpose, I don't have a clue, but it is at least possible to do:
DSC05624.JPG
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DSC05625.JPG
DSC05625.JPG (79.43 KiB) Viewed 2854 times
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Re: Nishiki Road Bike Build

Postby grindz145 » Wed Jan 11, 2012 9:03 am

amberwolf wrote:

I'm beginning to actually consider leaving this bike as just a pedal bike.... :shock:




Can't blame you AW, that's a pretty solid steel around-towner. Might not be enough of a challenge for you :twisted:
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Re: Nishiki Road Bike Build (TongXin MidDrive)

Postby amberwolf » Wed Jan 11, 2012 1:51 pm

It's ok; as you see above I found my challenge. ;) :lol:
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Re: Nishiki Road Bike Build (TongXin MidDrive)

Postby amberwolf » Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:14 am

tried to use ecrazyman 12fet from p/c tests
viewtopic.php?p=515860#p515860
to test this motor and get rpm/volt info, but can't get any response from it at all. works still w/pc motor so problem is in motor or cable.

halls ok per tester w/magnet waved across them.

phases not open, can't test short yet.

can't turn motor by hand via output ring of plnetary but can't grip case w/broken hand well enough to be suer peoblem is not w/me an not sizeed motoer. suspect is simply just raeally hard to turn from outside due to geareing ratio.

have to try w/lyen 6fet tomorrow whne i am less tired.
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Re: Nishiki Road Bike Build (TongXin MidDrive)

Postby amberwolf » Wed Jan 18, 2012 5:38 am

ecrazyman didn't work no matter what, so tried lyen and it worked vbut i messed up.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 28#p519828

dfouned intesresting daata tohough. see linked post for lts of pics.
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Re: Nishiki Road Bike Build (TongXin MidDrive)

Postby amberwolf » Wed Jan 18, 2012 2:46 pm

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