Stevil_Knevil
10 kW
Should 2.5" moped tires be allowed at Motorized Bicycle Races?
MBR Rules & Regulations - Tires
- Thread starter Stevil_Knevil
- Start date
Kingfish
100 MW
I'm with Hell 
Actually though, I am surprised it is an issue. For myself, the rear suspension of my present ebike can't take a tire wider than 2.5" anyways. However it seems to me that Moped tires are DOT-rated, yes? If that is the case, why wouldn't a person want to use a safer tire over less-rugged bicycle tires? If given the choice, I'd take the best option... <shrugs> Why be a stick in the mud?
To/Two/Too Fattys! KF :wink:
Actually though, I am surprised it is an issue. For myself, the rear suspension of my present ebike can't take a tire wider than 2.5" anyways. However it seems to me that Moped tires are DOT-rated, yes? If that is the case, why wouldn't a person want to use a safer tire over less-rugged bicycle tires? If given the choice, I'd take the best option... <shrugs> Why be a stick in the mud?
To/Two/Too Fattys! KF :wink:
johnrobholmes
10 MW
I think it is preposterous and silly to limit the tires in a race event like this. Maybe down the road when you can have more classes.
I wouldn't go so far as to regulate any part of the tire size, width nor height. The Racers will find what works best for them, if only they had the chance.
I wouldn't go so far as to regulate any part of the tire size, width nor height. The Racers will find what works best for them, if only they had the chance.
Thud
1 MW
Hell's Bells!
The conversation allways decomposes to what best represents a "bicycle" 8)
they have moped racing already....& these powerd bikes need a line in the sand.
I won't say what they are...my opinions are already on the record.
The deal is, I will build to whatever the current rules are & have fun competeing.
As i interpret the current tire allowance.....you can run any tire (up to 2.5"w) that will fit rims commonly sold as bicycle components.
AFAIK that is a 16" tire on 20"rims...any one have a source for a common size bicycle rim that will accept the continental, contiforce (sm)120/70-17" (overkill really untill we start seeing >70mph entry speeds)
if there was to be some sort of "leveler" for the feild of competitors.....make it age classes & the bikes have to be pedaled for 1/2 the laps.....then its an athletic competition/motorsport.
The conversation allways decomposes to what best represents a "bicycle" 8)
they have moped racing already....& these powerd bikes need a line in the sand.
I won't say what they are...my opinions are already on the record.
The deal is, I will build to whatever the current rules are & have fun competeing.
As i interpret the current tire allowance.....you can run any tire (up to 2.5"w) that will fit rims commonly sold as bicycle components.
AFAIK that is a 16" tire on 20"rims...any one have a source for a common size bicycle rim that will accept the continental, contiforce (sm)120/70-17" (overkill really untill we start seeing >70mph entry speeds)
if there was to be some sort of "leveler" for the feild of competitors.....make it age classes & the bikes have to be pedaled for 1/2 the laps.....then its an athletic competition/motorsport.
gensem
100 kW
Im with the moped tires on all my builds now.
Btw we have a very good Michellin moped tire available in brazil, its called pilot sporty.
Btw we have a very good Michellin moped tire available in brazil, its called pilot sporty.
johnrobholmes
10 MW
So thud, if I came out with a rim that was made for "bicycles" but used motorcycle ISO standards for beadset, how would people react that want only bicycle parts?
Thud
1 MW
John,
If you did that & advertise those wheels on all the motored bike forums, you would fill a very empty niche.
Every motored bike forum has a thread with someone looking for DOT rated tires & rims that can take a hit.
& it would really add validity to & the acceptance of decent tires.
(even the AGK rider will opt for pirrelis once he tries them...they don't even compair to Hookworms for inspiring confidence anywhere on the track)
Its just a few vocal guys who seem to think adding a motor to a bicycle doesn't make it a motorcycle.....but adding heavy tires do....whats a bicycle motor? whats a chainsaw engine.....does it matter?
whats the truth? there is no spoon.......& it is you who bends.
If you did that & advertise those wheels on all the motored bike forums, you would fill a very empty niche.
Every motored bike forum has a thread with someone looking for DOT rated tires & rims that can take a hit.
& it would really add validity to & the acceptance of decent tires.
(even the AGK rider will opt for pirrelis once he tries them...they don't even compair to Hookworms for inspiring confidence anywhere on the track)
Its just a few vocal guys who seem to think adding a motor to a bicycle doesn't make it a motorcycle.....but adding heavy tires do....whats a bicycle motor? whats a chainsaw engine.....does it matter?
whats the truth? there is no spoon.......& it is you who bends.
liveforphysics
100 TW
Thud said:
Those folks are called idiots.
You put any wheels you want on a BICYCLE, and you have a bicycle. Put monstertruck tires on a bicycle, and you have a monstertruck tired bicycle.
I actually remember a time when downhill mt biking was getting started, and people were first putting long travel dirtbike type suspension designs on bicycles along with 2-3in big knobby tires, and people were actually saying retarded crap like, "where do we draw thr line between a gravity powered and pedal powered dirtbike and a mountian bike? If we have dirtbike like tires and dirtbike like linkage suspension systems and dirtbike like disk brakes, when does it become a dirtbike with the engine removed and pedals put in its place."
And now we call it a downhill mt bicycle, the idiots have shut up, and what is obviously a bicycle continues to obviously be a bicycle.
The same thing will happen with tire drama. It hopefully wont take 5years of idiots arguing about tire choice not making it a bicycle, but whatever...
Kingfish
100 MW
Two things:
Thud, thanks for the insight on the Continental Conti Force SM 120/70R 17 (found commonly on Amazon). Did you look at Excel Aluminum rims? They make a 17” x 2.5 wide 36-hole.
gensem, I would dig having Pilot Sporty here in the USA, but unless I become some uber-importer, it costs twice the value of the tire to try and get them in. But that is my first choice.
~KF
Thud, thanks for the insight on the Continental Conti Force SM 120/70R 17 (found commonly on Amazon). Did you look at Excel Aluminum rims? They make a 17” x 2.5 wide 36-hole.
gensem, I would dig having Pilot Sporty here in the USA, but unless I become some uber-importer, it costs twice the value of the tire to try and get them in. But that is my first choice.
~KF
zombiess
10 MW
Don't forget about safety. Tires are pretty damn important for safety and the moped tires are a lot safer than bicycle tires when done right.
THINK ABOUT THE CHILDREN!!!!
THINK ABOUT THE CHILDREN!!!!
Lyen
10 kW
I agreed with Zombiess, I voted motorcycle tires should be allowed because of the safety reason after witnessed bicycle tires on high power ebikes deformed from the last Grange race. You will see what I mean when you try to pull the brake lever from 50mph to 0mph and from 0mph to 30mph in 3 seconds. It also helps lower the insurance cost for the upcoming events in a long run. :wink:
gensem
100 kW
Kingfish said:Two things:
Thud, thanks for the insight on the Continental Conti Force SM 120/70R 17 (found commonly on Amazon). Did you look at Excel Aluminum rims? They make a 17” x 2.5 wide 36-hole.
gensem, I would dig having Pilot Sporty here in the USA, but unless I become some uber-importer, it costs twice the value of the tire to try and get them in. But that is my first choice.
~KF
They are not expensive here (45-50 usd), but im gessing the shipping would kill... anyway, drop me a line if you feel like you really need one.
johnrobholmes
10 MW
The downside to those excel rims is the weight, they are very thick walled rims as compared to moped or bicycle.
liveforphysics
100 TW
Saves money to go to moped/scooter tires.
Increases safety from better reliability.
Reduces cost to race and practice for races because tires can last for years rather than days.
Improves races because less tire failures means more racers on the track doing what they came to do, racing, rather than dicking around with tires.
Better handling limits enable riders and bikes better at handling to have bigger advantages over bikes with more power.
Can anyone out there think of a remotely rational argument against? It seems the only reason I've ever heard isn't a reason or argument at all, but just "It doesn't look like a bicycle to me with those tires"...
Increases safety from better reliability.
Reduces cost to race and practice for races because tires can last for years rather than days.
Improves races because less tire failures means more racers on the track doing what they came to do, racing, rather than dicking around with tires.
Better handling limits enable riders and bikes better at handling to have bigger advantages over bikes with more power.
Can anyone out there think of a remotely rational argument against? It seems the only reason I've ever heard isn't a reason or argument at all, but just "It doesn't look like a bicycle to me with those tires"...
johnrobholmes
10 MW
The biggest concern I hear is either weight or too small of radius to work with current gearing. Both are obviously easy to work around, but some people don't like change I guess.
Have the safest tyres possible.
Stevil_Knevil
10 kW
Thanks to everyone that chose to vote and contribute to this open discussion!
The goal is to help define what tires will be considered safe and legal to run at these events.
Neil, the event organizer, indicated that the decision whether to open up the option of running moped tires would be up to the participants, and since there are more than a few racers here that have experience competing at his events on bicycle tires, YOU are the field and as such ..your feedback and suggestions are valuable.
-Compared to moped tires, bicycle tires are much lighter, and will provide lower rolling resistance largely due to their narrow contact patch.
-Compared to bicycle tires, moped tires are 3+ times the weight of bicycle tires, and have considerably higher rolling resistance, primarily because of their wider contact patch.
Opting for one or the other will have it's advantages and disadvantages. The biggest one that occurs to me is -while inherently safer and longer lasting in aggressive 40+ MPH riding- moped tires might prove to be a bit of a handicap because of the power lost in overcoming the added weight and rolling resistance that they provide, in effect, increased weight-to-power ratio.
Those opting for bicycle tires may even end up having the advantage
I voted Hell yes to allowing moped tires!
The goal is to help define what tires will be considered safe and legal to run at these events.
Neil, the event organizer, indicated that the decision whether to open up the option of running moped tires would be up to the participants, and since there are more than a few racers here that have experience competing at his events on bicycle tires, YOU are the field and as such ..your feedback and suggestions are valuable.
-Compared to moped tires, bicycle tires are much lighter, and will provide lower rolling resistance largely due to their narrow contact patch.
-Compared to bicycle tires, moped tires are 3+ times the weight of bicycle tires, and have considerably higher rolling resistance, primarily because of their wider contact patch.
Opting for one or the other will have it's advantages and disadvantages. The biggest one that occurs to me is -while inherently safer and longer lasting in aggressive 40+ MPH riding- moped tires might prove to be a bit of a handicap because of the power lost in overcoming the added weight and rolling resistance that they provide, in effect, increased weight-to-power ratio.
Those opting for bicycle tires may even end up having the advantage
I voted Hell yes to allowing moped tires!
johnrobholmes
10 MW
I would like to see some actual data on rolling resistance, I'm not convinced that all bicycle tires roll better. Moped tires are made as narrow as 2.0.
If your " bike " be it whatever category it falls into, has enough power on tap to make proper use of motorcycle tires, i say have at it.... if the bike as a whole is not allowed to compete it should not be because of the tires. ( like welding pedals to a Hayabusa and calling it a bicycle :lol: )
If someone wants to bring a rediculously powerfull machine to a race, and ride it reasonably safely, i say " Go for it ! ".. even it if laps everythig else on the track.. it's what competition is all about.
A less powerfull bike is best on bicycle tires, lighter is always better until you reach a certain power level, it's all proportional.
motored bicycle racing is still a relatively small group of fun seeking individuals, less rules make for more fun, when there starts to bee too many heads and splitting into groups is required, then rules have to be applied and classes made.. but for the time being... it's all about the fun imo.
Hell, if this was in range and i could make it, atm, i'd take my 9C motored 100v BMX to the track !
If someone wants to bring a rediculously powerfull machine to a race, and ride it reasonably safely, i say " Go for it ! ".. even it if laps everythig else on the track.. it's what competition is all about.
A less powerfull bike is best on bicycle tires, lighter is always better until you reach a certain power level, it's all proportional.
motored bicycle racing is still a relatively small group of fun seeking individuals, less rules make for more fun, when there starts to bee too many heads and splitting into groups is required, then rules have to be applied and classes made.. but for the time being... it's all about the fun imo.
Hell, if this was in range and i could make it, atm, i'd take my 9C motored 100v BMX to the track !
Alan B
100 GW
Let's see.
Two wheels in tandem.
Handlebar steering.
Saddle seat.
Working Pedals for propulsion.
A person can easily lift it.
Brakes for safety.
Sounds like a bicycle.
Tires should fit the wheels and be sturdy enough for safety. Flimsy tires that are prone to failure should be disallowed for safety. Heavy tires and rims are a disadvantage, so the tendency will be toward light tires for best performance. If anything, some bicycle tires might be considered unsafe if they fail on the track.
Moped tires for the heavier and more powerful bikes just make sense from a safety and reliability standpoint. I commuted to college on a moped for a few years and thousands of miles and I rarely had to concern myself with the tires. They were safe and reliable. They didn't get frequent flats like bike tires do. I plan to use them on my next ebike (Michelin Gazelle 2.5-17). The tires are already in hand, waiting on the rims which have been ordered. It will be a commuter ebike and reliability is important. I would like to be able to bring it to a MBR event, so I hope the tires don't become an issue. I can't readily change them or keep another set of wheels for this bike.
Two wheels in tandem.
Handlebar steering.
Saddle seat.
Working Pedals for propulsion.
A person can easily lift it.
Brakes for safety.
Sounds like a bicycle.
Tires should fit the wheels and be sturdy enough for safety. Flimsy tires that are prone to failure should be disallowed for safety. Heavy tires and rims are a disadvantage, so the tendency will be toward light tires for best performance. If anything, some bicycle tires might be considered unsafe if they fail on the track.
Moped tires for the heavier and more powerful bikes just make sense from a safety and reliability standpoint. I commuted to college on a moped for a few years and thousands of miles and I rarely had to concern myself with the tires. They were safe and reliable. They didn't get frequent flats like bike tires do. I plan to use them on my next ebike (Michelin Gazelle 2.5-17). The tires are already in hand, waiting on the rims which have been ordered. It will be a commuter ebike and reliability is important. I would like to be able to bring it to a MBR event, so I hope the tires don't become an issue. I can't readily change them or keep another set of wheels for this bike.
Stevil_Knevil said:Thanks to everyone that chose to vote and contribute to this open discussion!
The goal is to help define what tires will be considered safe and legal to run at these events.
Neil, the event organizer, indicated that the decision whether to open up the option of running moped tires would be up to the participants, and since there are more than a few racers here that have experience competing at his events on bicycle tires, YOU are the field and as such ..your feedback and suggestions are valuable.
-Compared to moped tires, bicycle tires are much lighter, and will provide lower rolling resistance largely due to their narrow contact patch.
-Compared to bicycle tires, moped tires are 3+ times the weight of bicycle tires, and have considerably higher rolling resistance, primarily because of their wider contact patch.
Opting for one or the other will have it's advantages and disadvantages. The biggest one that occurs to me is -while inherently safer and longer lasting in aggressive 40+ MPH riding- moped tires might prove to be a bit of a handicap because of the power lost in overcoming the added weight and rolling resistance that they provide, in effect, increased weight-to-power ratio.
Those opting for bicycle tires may even end up having the advantage
I voted Hell yes to allowing moped tires!
All other things being equal, the wider the tyre is - the better it will roll as it will deform less than a narrow tyre. The thing that makes narrow tyres faster (with lower rolling resistance) is that they can take higher pressures. But at the same pressures the wider tyre has less rolling resistance. It is the higher pressure that makes them roll better not the width.
Edited to make it comprehensible.
johnrobholmes
10 MW
Cost????? When a hookworm is $40 at the lbs and a plethora of $15 to $40 "moped' tires exist....
:lol:
:lol:
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