2WD Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Post by amberwolf » Sun Mar 18, 2012 12:35 pm

How to turn a front 9C hub into a rear:

First, this old hub (originally from DayGlo Avenger, when I tried JBWeld to hold sprockets to it for my first motorization attempts. :lol:)
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And cut the threaded end off including it's spoke flange:
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Then because the bearing hole is not big enough for the 9C axle to pass thru, I had to tap out the bearing cup (cuz I haven't got a drill bit that will enlarge the hole) and the cylinder behind it. I had an old fork tube from a wrecked fork that I'd taken the disc brake mounting from, months ago (which I used on the Suntour fork today), which was just bigger at it's top than the part of the hub I needed out of the flange. I set it on top of the tube, and used a worn chisel and a hammer to tap it out--it only took one hit.
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So I was left with just the flange and the threaded part of the hub:
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which of course is too large to fit over the motor hub's cover "stump"--but I knew that would be the case.
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So then I had to cut off that stump, which should be safe because the only thing it does is keep the bearing inside the motor, and does not appear to be a support for anything. It might add a bit of strength to the hub there, but hte bearing itself does not ingress into this stump, and stops level with the cover edge.
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So now the hub flange will seat against the cover, so that it can be bolted to it.
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Next step is marking the points to drill for bolts.
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All i have for bolts of the right approximate length, that might be strong enough to handle pedal torque if I have to use it, were 1/4"-20 bolts, 1.25" long I think. I ended up grinding down the ends a little to ensure they cleared the left side of the freewheel.
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I forgot to take a pic of the slots I cut in the spoke flange for the bolts.

One of the things I want to do but don't have time for right now is to shape and drill some scrap aluminum into little wedge-nuts to go under the washers, to keep everything straight and ensure better force-transfer:
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Here's the freewheel threaded on:
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ANd here's what it would look like (using the GM stator) in a Diamondback Coil frame's rear dropouts, which are wider than the ones on CrazyBike2 by a considerable amount:
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Then I took the 9C wheel off CrazyBike2's old crappy fork, and took of the rightside cover to replace it with the one above. Here's a shot of the windings and such, with no signs of damage or even much dust. That should tell you how little airflow there must actually be into or out of the motor, given the many miles (at least several hundred, probably more than a thousand) since I put the drilled-out covers on there. I have to wipe dust and dirt off the CA and mirrors several times a ride, yet there is not even that much dust on the entire stator inside these drilled out covers--if there was a lot of airflow they should be FILLED with dirt, especially given how close to the road they are.
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Before installing the "new" right side cover with freewheel, I added vent holes only at it's outer edges of the bell, for exhaust of air that can come in on the left side's much larger center holes.
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Since the freewheel sticks way out from the axle shoulders, I used the axle washer at those shoulders, as normal, and then added a slice off the same handlebars I used one end of for CrazyBike2's trailer hitchpost, as a spacer tube:
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I forgot to take a pic of it, but I also used the torque washer on the outside of the spacer tube, inside of the dropouts, to try to help with torque reaction, as there will not be space for a torque arm on this side.

Here's the front 9C now mounted on the rear:
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As hose clamps are obviously insufficient (given that mine broke, and even the wrench snapped), I bolted the torque arm that came with the 9C from Lyen to the accessory mount on the frame:
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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Post by amberwolf » Sun Mar 18, 2012 12:46 pm

Adding the disc brake mount:
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My welding is MUCH better with this new welder; Im still not perfect but at least I TRUST these welds. :lol:
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ANd here is the best use of SLA. ;)

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I needed to hold the bike off teh ground completely, so I stacked them up under it beore taking off the wheels.


Here's how I setup the steering and stem clamps:
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It is basically the same as when I used an identical fork for DeathRace 2011, but at a different front height because of both the wheel sizes and the slight cutting down of the front headtube, so it doesn't get the death shimmy.

Not having a regular "threaded" stem to put the headlight clamp on, I bent the mount and screwed it into the stem's clamping holes instead.
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The controller was moved from the front triangle to the center toptube instead:
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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Post by amberwolf » Sun Mar 18, 2012 12:58 pm

Finished the rest, including installing the fenders cuz I don't need to get soaked from the puddles if it isn't still raining when I go to work tonight. Not much avoiding the rain itself, if it happens; I don't have a raincoat anymore apparently. :?
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Rain stopped at dawn, so I took it for a test ride. Had to do various adjustments at points along the 5-mile ride around the neighborhood, especially the brakes haivng to be readjusted almost every time I used them. It got a little better each time, but I'm thinking these YUS calipers just aren't worth the powder to blow them up. I'll wait till they "wear in" and see how it goes from there, but just in case I am going to bring a couple of other calipers with me since they're relatively easy to swap out on the road if I have to. Rotor seems fine.

Braking from 20MPH is improved, but I can't lockup the wheel, still. It does lockup once I get down to 8-9MPH or so, but then a new problem crops up--judder.

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The headset keeps working loose, no matter how much I tighten it down. It is a threadless, and I am sure I do not have all the right components for it. I used a bearing race for the top of the steerer identical to the one on the bottom, and bearings that fit those as closely as I could, along with the headset races. But they don't fit perfectly. If I hammer down the clamp on the steerer while it is partially tight, and then tighten it down thoroughly, it stays for a little bit, but as soon as I rock the bike back and forth with the brakes on, or do a hard stop, it gets a little loose. Never a lot, just a little, just enough to judder during braking after that, and to feel a little vibration thru the steering.

Teh good news is that even this cheap Suntour fork is MUCH MUCH better than the crappy junk I had on there before. I deliberately rode thru the worst stuff in teh neighborhood, and whiel I can feel it, it doesn't shake so hard that I have troulbe steering, or feel like the rim is being flattened into a square. :lol:

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Also, between the fork's supsension and the geometry changes (swapping 24" and 26" rear to front, and the more forward fork position and length), it rides much better over the wide speedbumps. Used to I'd have to slow to 13MPH or so to avoid being heavily jostled and virtually slammed down at the end of one, but now I can go up to 17-18MPH or even a bit more before getting that kind of treatment, on what should be 20MPH speed bumps. Dunno what it'll be like on the narrow bumps like many parking lots have. Probably no different--those just suck.

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It feels quite different from the way it did before; I think I like this better except for the headset-caused issues. I am going to have to figure out how to fix that, ASAP. I think I can live with it for tonights' commute--I don't have time to fix it anyway, cuz I have to go get some sleep soon.

Gonna take some more riding to get used to the differences in feel, though.

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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Post by amberwolf » Mon Mar 19, 2012 12:22 pm

Commute went well, no adventures. :)

Everythign worked as expected, though I didn't slam the power on at any point and always helped pedal startups, from middle gear (which is good to about 10MPH at most before I'm pointlessly spinning). I actually only have two gears now, big chainring and middle, as the derailer is not made for this crankset so it doesn't have enough range for that big a difference in size (28-48, IIRC). I don't have a shifter on it, I just move it by hand, with the derailer only there as a guide to keep the chain from falling off or into the wrong chainring if it derails while pedalling over bumpy roads. But having to do it by hand I can't shift on teh fly, only at a stop. the big chainring is good for about 15-17MPH.

The startup pedalling is only so there is less stress on the axle/torque arm, as it is a single one now, until I get the chance to weld up some clamping dropouts I have two perfect pieces of metal for this, salvaged from a fixture being tossed out during the remodel, but have to do some serious grinding and filing and a bit of welding before they can be ready to put onto the bike. They're about a cm thick, I think. Have to measure them. :) I probably wont' have the chance to do this until Friday or Saturday, my next days off.

I don't really pedal, but rather just ghost pedal, once I am started up. Even the ghost pedalling is not done on the streets or bike lanes, just when on bike paths/sidewalks, but that is about 10 miles of my current route to work, out of almost 17 miles total. The rest is all on the streets.


The one serious problem I need to deal with is the headset looseness. It causes a reaction against the steering tie rod point that twists the front wheel to the left during braking, which means that the bike pulls to the side when braking even a little, and it's pretty bad when I slam on the brakes from 20MPH.

The next problem is with the YUS calipers--they are cheaply made, and wiggle all over the place during braking, making it hard to modulate them much without lots of vibration or shuddering, often accompanied by screeching or squealing with a vibrato effect. If I hard brake, that doesn't happen the same or as much, just hwen trying to slow a little bit, especially at 12-15MPH.

I also am having a slight problem with the speedo part of the CA, and I haven't figured out if it is the sensor or wiring or the CA itself. Sometimes it reads 0.00MPH when I drop below 12MPH or so. Sometimes it's fine. It uses the reed pickup, which is on the rear wheel now. I thought it might be magnet placement/alignment, so I fiddled around with that but it didn't change anything. Haven't been able to check anything else yet.

The most annoying but still very minor problem is the rear fender. Because it's a bigger wheel, the fender is larger and sticks farther forward, so it sits right up against the back/bottom of the seat mesh. If I sit back in the seat or push hard while pedalling at startup, it pushes the fender down against the tire by pushing the front edge of the fender back. I may have to bend the fender or spread out/flatten it's front end, which I don't want to do because this is the fender intended for the Nishiki build cuz it's a nicer one. What I will probably do instead is make new mount points for the red 24" fender I used to have on here, and install it in place of the bigger black one, and then add some plastic or metal flashing down in front of the wheel since the smaller fender won't be long enough to reach under the seat anymore (or else not enough to reach all the way to the back). I do need to deal with this soon, because I need the fender cuz of the rain we're having this week, and the tire is already in bad enough shape withotu fender cuts in it. :(



The motor in the rear wheel between the two metal boxes is much louder during the resonant grindy-sounding parts, like startup, 15MPH, and 20MPH. I had to stick some foam in the bottom of the right pod (which is usually just bare metal) to get it down to tolerable levels. It's better with my full face helmet on, which I wore today because of the rain, but with a bike helment on it's pretty loud. I may add some egg-crate foam to scatter noise on the *outside* of the pods where they face the wheel.

Other than that, I like the motor on the back better than on the front. It makes it far easier to move the bike around when parked, because I can easily lift up teh fornt of the bike to pivot it around the rear tire or a cargo pod corner. Also much easier to do off-ground testing of the motor. Either just rest a pod corner on ground and then lever bike up a bit to get wheel off ground, or stick stuff under both pods to hold the whole backend up off the ground.

It also seems to handle better, but it is difficult to tell whether that is because of the geometry change or the weight shift or something else. Turns at speed are still hard to do but I think it is beause of the headset issue and me not being used to the new setup yet. I keep going way too wide even though i can actually tilt much further over in a turn without scraping a pod now, because of the greater rear wheel diameter holding the pods further off ground.

More later as I think of it. For now, ride data:

To work (north on 31st ave to greenway, sidewalks on greenway to 44th st, 44th st to bell and around the corner to work):
1h 14m 42s trip time
16.27miles
19.9mph max
13.0mph avg

22.7Wh/mile
6.75Ah
374.6Wh
49.79Amax

58.3Vstart
53.2Vrest
49.7Vmin

1.6% Regen
0.1101Ah Regen
-6.865A peak Regen


Back home (reverse of above route):
1h 13m 34s trip time
16.71miles
22mph max
13.0mph avg

21.3Wh/mile
6.063Ah
362.87Wh
59.28Amax

58.3Vstart
53.0Vrest
49.3Vmin

1.6% Regen
0.1066Ah Regen
-9.18A peak Regen

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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Post by amberwolf » Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:59 pm

I'm definitely getting used to riding the new geometry. I am still having trouble with the headset rattle; it causes bump-steer, too, as well as brake steer. It's not terrible, but it is problematic.

Today I chose to ride the streets only, up 31st ave to Greenway, then east on Greenway to 44th St, north on 44th to Bell then to work. I only had one car zoom agressively past me barely changing lanes; everyone else courteously changed fully to one of the other lanes, and often signalled.

This was more efficient riding, essentially without having to stop except the usual dozen or so stops I must do on the first two miles as I head thru Metrocenter from home, to get to 31st Ave. There are a couple of mid-mile stop signs from there to Greenway, but I made all but one of the lights by timing arrival shortly after cars got there to trigger them. Same with the lights on Greenway itself; had to stop at two but made the rest. I got 26.5Wh/mile out of the trip.


On my way home, I rode streets only, as well, but a slightly different route just to see. I took Bell to 44th St, then 44th south to Greenway, then Greenway east to Cave Creek Rd. South on CCR down the mountain (with a couple of slight uphills first, one of which took about 1200W to sustain 20MPH, for a bit over a minute before cresting the hill--pedalling would've been pointless as it doesn't help past maybe 17MPH). CCR ends at 7th St and Dunlap, where I continued west on Dunlap to 28th ave and then south to home. I had only one stop the whole way home. That and the long downhill on CCR gave me 22.8Wh/mile.

I couldn't quite coast down the hill, but I didn't need nearly as much power as normal to maintain 20MPH. At one point, I was able to coast down at 24.0MPH, no power at all. That lasted about 20 seconds, then I began slowing, and about 2 minutes later I had to start powering up again to bring up from around 19MPH to 20.


On the way home I had an extra 25lbs with me, as I had saved some square tubing from a dog-clothing fixture being tossed out.
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I also saved all the allen-head (5mm) bolts from it, since I can use these for the bike and stuff. I wanted to save more of it, but couldn't haul it home, it's just too big of pieces to fit on the bike, and I don't think I would risk hauling a trailer full of stuff on the paths I'd have to take. I'd ahve to take the full lane the whole way, cuz the trailer would never make it thru the problems at the side of the road, and weaving in and out of the lane constantly would be even more dangerous. Too much chance of cars just running right over the trailer, or clipping it, and I couldn't just dash out of their way unlike just with the bike.


It was FRIGGIN COLD on the way there and on the way home, though; even more than yesterday after the rains. My hands were practically numb from the cold even with the snowboarding gloves and their inner liner gloves, over the fingerless gloves. Legs were warm enough with two pair of sweatpants plus my work pants, and torso and arms ok with work shirt, sweater, and leather jacket, and head warm enough with the FF MC helmet even with the shield up (though my nose was cold). Even right now, 1030am, an hour and a half after getting home, it's still only 55F out there, despite being sunny. I dunno what it was while I was riding, but it felt well below freezing with windchill, and maybe not too far above freezing in actual air temperature.


I still don't like the Cave Creek Road downhill run in the bike lane becuase of the large deep pits frequently blocking more than half of the bike lane, forcing one to end up mostly in the rightmost traffic lane instead, since some of those pits are several inches deep--I'd hesitate to ride thru them even on a motorcycle--hit them wrong and you could lose steering control, and wipe out ending up under other traffic. On most bicycles you'd probably break the front wheel, and quite possibly endo. To avoid them I took the regular lane as much as possible for the long stretch that had them. No one seemed to have a problem with me and passed me normally in the other lanes.


Now for the ride data, trip to work first:
56m 38s trip time
16.25miles
22.2mph max
17.2mph avg

26.5Wh/mile
7.977Ah
432.93Wh
63.5Amax

58.3Vstart
52.6Vrest
49.1Vmin

0.9% Regen
0.0725Ah Regen
-8.64A peak Regen



Then the trip home:
47m 12s trip time
13.91miles
24.0mph max
17.0mph avg

22.8Wh/mile
5.855Ah
322.86Wh
59.58Amax

58.0Vstart
55.4Vrest
49.7Vmin

1.9% Regen
0.1141Ah Regen
-9.5A peak Regen

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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Post by mdd0127 » Tue Mar 20, 2012 9:39 pm

It's good to see you putting some of that stuff I gave you to good use! You're probably going to end up with a brand new, never installed suntour v3 xct fork soon too. No one seems interested in it....even at $35! I'm definitely getting you a nice pile of useful goodies together and will bring it on my next trip down.....unless you feel like hooking up the trailer and heading north! :shock:

The front to rear hub motor magic is awesome btw!

As far as your commute goes, is there any reason why you can't just take an entire lane on the road, blatantly, and just let the cars go around? You have awesome lighting and clearly can use a large portion of the lane without causing too much confusion. You might need one of those reflective triangles on the rear like tractors and amish buggies use but it might be totally legal and much easier that way. You'd just have to fend off the negative energy of all of the idiots in a hurry to go nowhere that get stuck behind you. My old military truck was that way. At first, I could feel the negativity behind me and it stressed me out but eventually, I started to get a kick out of how upset people would get because they had to slightly nudge their steering wheel and go around. Most of the streets I saw down there were 35-45mph zones and I'm pretty sure you have the same rights as a car. It would be ballsy for sure but would start setting the stage for people getting used to smaller lighter, slower, but waaaaay more efficient vehicles being on the road. Lead the way and others will follow! (but be safe :wink: ) What do recumbent trike riders do, one wheel on the curb and the other in the gutter? The ones I've seen just take the whole lane.

I'd love to come down and ride/play some music soon but probably won't be able to until after May 2nd. We're still building stuff like crazy, trying to get everything ready for the Mexican 1000. I'm donating my time and skills to the effort so I'm barely making enough to eat, much less travel! After the race, I have some good paying work lined up a lot closer to you so that should be cool!

Take it easy!

Danny
Turn it OFF!!!

Apocaloptimist! (thx Kiwi!)

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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Post by amberwolf » Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:52 pm

mdd0127 wrote:It's good to see you putting some of that stuff I gave you to good use! You're probably going to end up with a brand new, never installed suntour v3 xct fork soon too. No one seems interested in it....even at $35! I'm definitely getting you a nice pile of useful goodies together and will bring it on my next trip down.....unless you feel like hooking up the trailer and heading north! :shock:

I dun think I could make it up there with the bike and trailer. :lol: I'd need a few recharges along the way--I might make it in a 2-day trip if I carried all of my batteries, cuz I'd have to go pretty slow to use part of them (the TS 10s 60Ah cells), and I'd have no way to recharge the TS cells after getting there, unless you happen to have something that could charge them back up.

So I'll have to wait for your next trip down. :) I definitely appreciate whatever you're getting rid of, and like I said before, if it isn't very much I can also offer whatever you'd've gotten scrapping/recycling it.

There is a chance I might get a friend to take me up there, like last time (but a different friend). Depends on what days you'd be avaialbe if I could come up there;


The front to rear hub motor magic is awesome btw!

It was kind of a desperation move, which I wouldn't even have tried if I didn't have two sets of covers and two (different but interchangeable) stators and two magnet rings, in case I really screwed it up. Hopefully it will inspire others to try something similar, only better. :)

But it was the only way I could use disc brakes in the front without the custom disc I made from scrap metal for the hubmotor's cover bolt ring, and welding a caliper mount to that hill-assault fork (that doesn't fit any of the steel headtubes I have except the one already on the new bike frame :roll:). I still want to do that giant brake disc, but I have to get the right cover bolts for it first. I think I want to try it on the rear, since welding a caliper mount there ought to be easy enough, compared to on the fork. Should be plenty of clearance.


Speaking of clearance, apparently the frame flexes enough in the rear triangle to cause some tire rub during regen braking. It *only* happens then, not during accel or if I only brake with the front disc. I can't tell but I think that the dropouts themselves might be flexing, along with the thin stays.

The flexing itself isn't an issue, but the tire rub is--this is the thin sticky compound Cheng Shin I like on the front, one of which had a thread failure on the tread section, and then split the casing along the tread. The one now on the rear is showing two bulges on teh sidewall, probably from damage from friction heating as it rubs on the frame. The bulges stick out more and rub earlier and for more time, and harder, which exacerbates the problem.

So, I need to change the tire before I have a failure. I don't know which one I want to put on there, because I would like one that is going to be tough enough to last a while, and is also going to help with traction, etc., but not have a high rolling resistance or bumpy ride.

I've got four "tough" candidates, but all are knobbies. :(
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Two are in this category only because they are thicker walled and treaded, the Kenda \
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and the Tiandi.
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The Maxxis
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and the Specialized
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seem to be made well enough as well as being thick. None of them have all that much wear, I think. But the Specialized whcih is the best of the bunch (rated for 85PSI vs 65 on all the others) is also very much wider than the others, not only wide in the tire itself, but extra knobbies on teh edges add like 5mm on each side.

I know that it will not clear the frame, unless I cut off all those side knobbies, or somehow spread the frame at the tire area; I dunno what that would do to the frame strength. So I'd rather not do it.



In other news, I fixed some of the shudder during braking with the disc brakes in front. I could not tell before for some reason, but when I stopped to bang at the headset again today, I found that the cone nuts on the axle/hub in front were not fully seated, so the whole wheel had some left/right play/wobble. Not very much, but enough to feel it rocking the tire left/right. While still on the sidewalk, I stuck the FF MC helmet under the bike near the cranks to hold the front end up, then took the wheel off and adjusted the cone nuts, whcih when put back on fixed the worst of the brake shudddering--there is still some because of the headset looseness, but it is not as bad.

Befoe, it would rattle around during all braking. Now it is only during light to moderate braking, while modulating the brakes to slow rather than stop. Worst druing right turns. Heavy sudden braking fully locks up the headset into it's rear-dragged position, so it doesn't have a shudder problem.


One other thing I would like to change is the steering ratio. It is too sensitive. I thought I had calculated and measured things to keep it the same as it was before, but apparently not.

As far as your commute goes, is there any reason why you can't just take an entire lane on the road, blatantly, and just let the cars go around? You have awesome lighting and clearly can use a large portion of the lane without causing too much confusion. You might need one of those reflective triangles on the rear like tractors and amish buggies use but it might be totally legal and much easier that way.

It's theoretically legal anyway, depending on road conditions. Whether I get harassed by police about it would depend on whether any pissed off drivers call me in or something, or if the police see lots of cars doing stupid things passing me, and then do what they usually do--remove the slow vehicle from the road rather than catch the idiot drivers and teach them how they *should* pass slow vehicles.

I think if I were to take a whole lane on either Greenway, Bell, or Cave Creek, I'd need to to have one of those super-bright sequential flashing arrows like construction and cleaning vehicles often have. I've considered one before, but if I had to do this commute for another couple of weeks, I'd build one for sure. It's not really needed for most of my riding, as I can usually either stay on slower main streets or on side streets.

I try not to go places where the only option is to go thru roads like CCR, Bell, or GW, which are all 45MPH for most of the length I have to go on, but are the only roads around the mountain, with sidestreets nonexistent for parts of the journey and discontinuous most everywhere else. That makes it impractical to take side streets. Sidewalks are possible but only practical for a small part of teh journey, unless I don't mind taking a significantly longer time to reach my destinations up there. But sidewalks are dangerous unless they have nothing crossing them, and are nice and wide, and in very good condition. None of those is true for most of the sidewalks in the valley, and even when one is true usually the others aren't. :(




You'd just have to fend off the negative energy of all of the idiots in a hurry to go nowhere that get stuck behind you. My old military truck was that way.

But it is also quite a lot bigger than my bike, and unlikely to have someone run over it if they either don't notice the speed difference thru obliviousness, or if they are just mad and can't be bothered to follow the rules of the road or even just do the safe thing and pass in the next lane.


I don't have a problem with the attitudes themselves, as I'm used to that, just the possibility of someone not bothering to change lanes enough and running right over me. I suppose in theory taking the lane fully gives me more options for getting out of their way if I had to, but I don't know if it is true or not.

Anyway, it's a thought.



Most of the streets I saw down there were 35-45mph zones and I'm pretty sure you have the same rights as a car.

I do, *but* am required to ride "as far to the right as is practicable", whatever "practicable" is supposed to mean. I'm also supposed to ride at most in the center of the rightmost lane, or to the right. Given road conditions, sometimes even the center of the lane isn't far enough left to clear the untravellable portions of the road. Mostly even just a little between center and right is far enough, but hardly ever is it really possible to stay all the way to the right for more than a few dozen or a few hundred feet.


It would be ballsy for sure but would start setting the stage for people getting used to smaller lighter, slower, but waaaaay more efficient vehicles being on the road. Lead the way and others will follow! (but be safe :wink: )

There are a lot of cyclists on the road now, but so many of them are the same idiots that drive cars without knowing or caring about the rules of the road (such as not drinking and driving, which is probably why they are riding bikes now), that I think they are causing a significant amount of the aggravation many drivers have with cyclists. There are also aggressive cyclists (even lycras) that get in the way of faster traffic when they have no right or even need to; I've seen one of them twice now (same one I think) on my morning ride home, that cycles on the righthand side of eastbound Greenway, sometimes almost in teh gutter but sometimes suddenly just swinging out left way into the lane even though cars were coming right up behind him--and he NEVER looked and had no mirror on helmet or bars.

He also had no road-condition reason to swerve; I have ridden that same path several times now, and while the road has separation cracks several dozen feet apart all down that stretch of road, they're not that bad even on my heavy bike; on a light road bike they'd probably be trivial even at the 15-20MPH he was going.

But in all cases of swerving out, there were cars coming, and all of those had to brake (screeching in some cases) and swerve left around him. Since I was riding the other direction (but on the same side of the road, as I was on the sidewalk at that time) I only had him in view for a short time each time, so I assume he's doing that kind of thing all along his ride path, however long that is. I imagine it would piss off drivers a lot. It would more than irritate me, and I might ride up next to him and wave him over to try to tell him what he is doing is going to get him hurt or killed, or cause an accident between cars. I doubt it would help, though.




What do recumbent trike riders do, one wheel on the curb and the other in the gutter? The ones I've seen just take the whole lane.

Trikes haven't any choice--the whole lane is the only option. Almost no bike lane is wide enough, because here they often include the gutter as part of the bike lane's width, which of course is stupid and pointless, especially with storm drains in it that would break your wheel and throw you off the bike into traffic if you actually tried to ride thru them. :roll:

Even most sidewalks aren't wide enough for a trike at any real speed, because they are just wide enough for a wheelchair in many cases, sometimes maybe 1.5x that. In rare cases there are paths like the one for a few miles on greenway that are 5-6 feet wide, and those are actually usable...but often the concrete sections are sinking at angles or different rates, as the sand under them gets washed out by rains and sinkholes, so there can be "cliffs" between sections of up to 3-4 inches, and commonly at least an inch to 1.5 inches, and less often 2 to 2.5 inches. . Or construction workers have lifted the sections out to do work under them, then dropped them back in in a "roof peak" fashion, making a huge peaked double "ramp" with it's center 4-6 inches higher than it's ends, over about 2-3 feet length depending on how big the sidewalk sections are.

Anyway, no point complaining; they're not gonna do anything about it, even if they had any budget for it. :(



I'd love to come down and ride/play some music soon but probably won't be able to until after May 2nd.

That's ok. Maybe I can even get time off by then.


We're still building stuff like crazy, trying to get everything ready for the Mexican 1000. I'm donating my time and skills to the effort so I'm barely making enough to eat, much less travel! After the race, I have some good paying work lined up a lot closer to you so that should be cool!

That should be interesting to participate in. I kinda wish I could help out, but I haven't any time off for a while, nor anyone I'd trust the dogs with.

It'll be nice to see ya again when you get back this way afterward, too.

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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Post by amberwolf » Thu Mar 22, 2012 3:13 pm

I forgot to post the ride data from yesterday (actually I fell asleep before adding it in). I think I rode 31st ave up to GW then across to 44st up to bell, all on the street, but I forget exactly. :( On the way home I know I took Bell to 44th then south to GW then east to CCR, then on dunlap to 28th and home from there.

to work
51m 34s trip time
15.1miles
22.9mph max
17.5mph avg

28.1Wh/mile
7.876Ah
427.4Wh
61.96Amax

57.9Vstart
52.5Vrest
49.2Vmin

1.1% Regen
0.0898Ah Regen
-8.59A peak Regen

to home
53m54 s trip time
14.33miles
23.5mph max
15.9mph avg

21.8Wh/mile
5.717Ah
327.58Wh
59.18Amax

58.3Vstart
53.9Vrest
50.3Vmin

1.8% Regen
0.1085Ah Regen
-9.72A peak Regen





Today I rode the same to work path, all on streets, and then on the way home I took bel to 44th st then to gw all teh way west to 29th ave, wher ei met a friend for breakfast. when we were done i went hom via 31st ave, stopping at peoria and 28th at my regular workplace for next week's schedule, then going home via my usual normal from-work commute thru metrocenter.

It appears to be pretty economical on power to ride around 20MPH on the nearly-non-stop greenway for 2/3 of the trip, as my wh/ mile to work was only 25.8, and going home only 21.5 (similar to CCR with all the downhill runs, though GW is a much gentler downslope).


work
58m 2s trip time
15.64miles
23,5mph max
16.3mph avg

19.43Wh/mile
6.9Ah
404Wh
61.75Amax

58.3Vstart
52.8Vrest
49.9Vmin

0% Regen
0Ah Regen
-0A peak Regen


home
1h 4m 55s trip time
18.26miles
23.4mph max
16.8mph avg

21.5Wh/mile
7.211Ah
392. 66Wh
62.86Amax

58.3Vstart
Vrest 52.9
Vmin gx 50.1

0% Regen
0Ah Regen
-0A peak Regen



I stopped due to numb hands about 3 miles from home, and looked at the bike whil estopped. I found that the left motor axle nut must be stripped, because it is finger-loose, and hand-tightening it just spins it, never getting tension. :( I hpe it is the nut and not the axle, cuz I can find another nut. Otherwise it is down to clamping dropouts from now on, which I don't have time to fabricate until after this workweek is over. This does explain the movement during regen though. So it's good that I decided against using regen at all before I left for work this "morning" (last night).

I also found the bolt that connects the lower cargo pod rail on the left to the bike frame has lost it's nut. I must've failed to retighten it properly. Since I don't have another nut to replace it with, I have to remove the entire bolt and replace both, which due to it's length and placement means removing the left cargo pod to do it. More work I don't have time for and am way too tired to be doing.


Yet more work to do: Those tire bulges are getting worse and at least one sidewall crack is visible on one bulge, so I must replace the tire before leaving for work tonight. I'm unable to hold tools right now; too tired, can barely type this up (can't sleep yet cuz of caffiene keeping me awke for the ride home and stuff, hping to nod off while typing this like i did yseterday). so after a nap i have to change the tire. For now I will try the Maxxis since it is narrow enough to fit in the stays spacing, without doing frame modifications i am not confident i can do correctly, or within the hour or two I might be able to spend on the entire bike repairs today.


the braking-caused pull to the left has changed to a pull to the right, for no reason I can find. I think it happened right after i tightened the axle cone nuts in front to fix the loose-wheel issue, but I really cant' remember.

I am going to test to see if it is disc-related or not by changing the 24" wheel out for a 26" otherwise identical wheel but using the Kenda krossroads tire from DayGlo Avenger's currently-inoperative front fusin motor wheel. It's the best of the smooth-centered tires I have for the front.


I have a headset i forgot about from a badly dented alloy frame Mdd0127 gave me, that i will see if i can make work on the fork instead of my makeshift headset. if so it should fix the loosening problem, which is getting dangerous because of it's effect on braking steer.

no pics for now cuz i am too tired to find the camera, wherever i last put it wsan't in plaing sight apparently.

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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Post by amberwolf » Fri Mar 23, 2012 1:21 pm

I guess i was so exhausted after posting the above that I fell asleep until my alarm went off. That gave me an hour to do *something* for the bike, and then leave, after feeding the dogs.

Since the most dangerous problem was the headset rattle, with the most potential to crash me during braking in traffic, I chose that. I also was pretty sure I could do it in only half an hour.

I got the headset out (forgot pics cuz I was in a hurry, but have to take it apart again so will get pics then) from the Giant NRS frame, or at least the bearings and split-cone washers/bushings. I found that the bearings (which are more like sealed bearings than typical units on cheap bikes like I've always had before) didn't *quite* fit into the races/headset rings on CB2, but they would fit fine in the ones on the new bike. So I swapped them, as they are both for 1-1/8" tubes and both fit the same headtube. I am sure I have another set somewhere that would fit, too, but I didn't have time to look for it.

I pulled off the old ball bearing rings and the bottom race from the steerer on the fork, and replaced that with one of the split-cone bushings from the Giant headset. I slipped the bottom bearing from the Giant over that, and then inserted the whole thing into the bottom headset cup on CB2.

Guess what? It had fit perfectly into it before (or so I thought), when I hand fit just the bearing, but now it has just a *little* movement room. I shimmed it with aluminum flashing, and that helped, but it is not perfect so ti still has a little slop. The *top* is perfect, though. :roll:

It improves it DRAMATICALLY. Two things help. First is much much less slop--probably less than a tenth, probably a lot less. Second is that the bearings are so smooth, they're better than ANY headset bearings I have EVER had. EVER. This means that it is effortless to do tiny corrections to steering, and this means that my arms don't get nearly as tensed up, eventually giving me aching shoulders and back, too, and I can more easily just lean back in the seat and cruise. I am still working on finding the perfect centering of the handlebars--that has to be redone every time I take the steering apart, as I keep forgetting to mark it once I find that spot. :roll:

Takes quite a few miles of riding to find it, with stopping to adjust in tiny tiny increments left or right, until I can just keep my fingers on the grips and thumb on throttle tab. But until now, I could never really do that, because the stiffness of the headset meant I could not quite as easily push it back and forth for steering corrections. Now I can. :) So yet another thanks to Mdd0127 for something trivial yet incredibly useful and helpful.

Now I just have to resolve the bottom bearing cup issue, so there is no slop there, and then it shoudl be almost perfect.

Remaining to make it perfect is to remake the front steering tie-rod point so it is adjustable in radius from pivot center, so I can easily change teh steering sensitivity. It is just a bit too sensitive right now, and I have to re-correct my inputs frequently. I am getting used to it, but it is still annoying and adds to the stress of a long ride in traffic like on Greenway. This may not happen soon, but I do need to do it.


But anywya, the rattle problem is still there, just at the bottom headset instead of top, now, and much smaller. But becuse it's there it gets worse becuse it slowly pries the upper headset and clamps and stem upward, loosening the top, too. This happens during bad road conditions with lots of vibration, or during braking. It doesn't matter how hard I clamp down the steerer clamp or the stem clamp, even with both their large clamping areas holding them in place. I guess it is a lot of force prying at them.



I did not get the chance to change the rear tire, which was the next most important thing, and as it turns out, the one I SHOULD have dealt with insted of the headset. :(

I will have pics later, but basically the tire came apart exzctly like the other of the pair, along the cloth insde the tire, tearing thru the fibers and then the rubber, actually twisting the tire as if the rim awas out of true, but not wtisting the rim. Before it shredded I had some warning, so I got off Dunlap itself and was going to head up side streets to the canal, just before 19th Ave on my way home from work. That was about 11 miles in. Another 3/4 mile, and BOOM the tire exploded, as the tread just separated, allowing (forcing, really) the tube to herniate outward and just get ripped apart by teh road surface. :(

Before I could even coast to a stop, the tire had come off the rim completely in one area near the tear, and the tube inside had flopped down around the bolts holding the freewheel-thread hub piece in place to the motor cover, and then wrapped tightly around the freewheel and cover. I had to cut it to pieces to even get the wheel to be able to roll!

I slipped the tire back onto the rim, but without air it wouldn't stay in place to ride, and the shredded part kept flopping around so every revolution it would be thumping the whole wheel up and down a few millimeters or more, and doing that in about 3 places--just worst in the actual rupture location. So I couldn't ride ti home; I had to walk it around 3 miles I guess it was, on the sidewalk. Fotunately it's not hot yet, being only about 70F or so at around 8am when this happened. It was getting hotter, around 77F, by teh time I got home, and it was a LOT of effort to push the bike up even teh SLIGHTEST incline.

Using the motor to hlep was necessary on any upward incline, but very hard as low enough throttle to be useful at walking speeds 2-3MPH is almost impossible to do, and definitely impossible to hold in place. I wish I had put the 3-speed swithc on there as planned long ago.


So the lesson here (beofre I finally fall asleep) is that if you think your tire's days are numbered, replace it NOW, and you might not have to make a 3-mile walk of shame pushing a flat-tire bike that weighs more than you do home. :(


Thankfully I am now off until next Wednesday, so I feel like sleeping the first two or three and then fixing things. :lol:

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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Post by amberwolf » Sat Mar 24, 2012 3:12 am

Wanton destruction pics:

Tire after 3 miles of walking the bike home wihtout my weight on it, but still with 130-ish pounds of bike/etc on it (30-something pounds is carried by the front wheel)
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Tube after i cut it out of the freewheel. Most of teh smaller holes and ragged edges are presumably from the freewheel bolts munching it up as it wrapped around them.
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Some of the tube is still stuck in the freewheel/bolts:
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More later, as I only woke up maybe an hour ago, and am still very tired. Gotta get food and then see about changing the tire out. Then while it's off the bike anyway, might as well make the clamping dropouts, since the left (wire-side) nut is stripped out pretty much completely, and the bolted-on torque arm is the only thing keeping the wheel on the bike on that side. The right nut seems ok, but I am not comfortable with 2KW on tap with just that.

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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Post by amberwolf » Sat Mar 24, 2012 2:40 pm

I am still working on fixing the various problems, and taking pics as I go, but they won't be in this post. Next one, hopefully. Stopped to eat something and posting this while I am munching, then back to work on teh bike.

Original tire is trashed. First two pics are the blowouts (two of them!). Rest are the inside of the tube after pushing teh bike home 3 miles on the flat tire. :(
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Rim is a little chewed up on the edges but no cracks or serious damage to it. I found the rim strip was wrapped around the left side axle and torn up, :roll: so I used electrical tape to replace it.
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Replaced the tube with teh spare I carry with me, moved the slime tire liner over (which I pulled out fo the tire after the flat before continuing to prevent damage to it). Replaced the tire with the Maxxis knobby above; it has possible clearance issues with the frame so I might ahve to trim all the edge knobbies. This tells me that the bigger fatter Specialized Evil Twin would never fit in there without major frame mods. :( so a "1.95" inch tire is the widest that is going to fit in 26". 2.1" will fit in a 24", barely.


Created clamping dropout plates out of an old Mongoose Outer Limits BMX frame's rear dropouts. I had planned on thicker ones but I can't find the metal brackets I was going to use, which were about 1cm thick. These are about 5mm from the Mongoose. They start out a tight enough fit to require lightly tapping the axle into them, and then the bolt can clamp even harder. We'll have to see how they hold up; they're not even welded into place yet.


Have an idea for the headset problem, but have to take the front end apart again to try it; involves removing the bottom headset cup and replacing it with one slightly too small, but lightly ground out to fit. If that doesn't work I dunno if I *can* fix it.

There was something else but I forget what it was. :(
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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Post by amberwolf » Sun Mar 25, 2012 1:41 pm

I fell asleep again a bit past midday, and woke near midnight to some very hungry dogs. :lol: So I didn't get the bike done or make it to a sci-fi club meeting I had hoped to attend, as I rarely get the day off that the meetings are on.

I resumed work on the dropouts after feeding the dogs and myself. Since I had to do a lot of grinding and whatnot, I kept having to take parts back in the house and do that in the bathtub (only safe place for sparks right now), because it was so late at night and I didn't want to disturb the neighbors. Welding outside was fine, as it doesn't really make any noise.

The Maxxis tire mounted and inflated:
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These are the plates I'd intended to use
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but the slots already in them were way too big, and I didn't htink of welding them partly closed and re-filing them until I'd already been working on the other ones almost to completion, so I just finished the others and will use these later.
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Instead I'd used these:
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and cut the curved end flat for wleding the sides of the nut and a collar ring to, either side of the dropout. the collar was an old stripped Craftsman collet for something, no longer usable for it's original purpose but still made of tool steel and so should hold up to more stress than most other things I have lying around. The bolt used was off a car, I think one of the alternator mounting bolts from the old long-gone Ford LTD.
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Here's a test pic of the clamping, showing me holding the GM stator off the ground by the axle end clamped in the plate (still partly attached to the BMX frame at this point):
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The dropouts I had nearly finished before my unintended "nap", so it didnt' take long to finalize the fit using the GM1000W stator from Icecube57, which I'd assumed was the same size axle as the 9C. But it turns out that it is actually a teeny bit smaller on the flats. I can't measure it exactly, but it might be half a millimeter. Unfortunately that means that my careful welding along one edge of each dropout to build up material on it, and then very carefully grind and then hand-file it down to an EXACT fit on the axle, was almost wasted.
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I had not used the actual 9C to do it, because I wanted the stator in my lap while I filed so I could test fit quickly and easily, and the whole wheel was too heavy and large to do that with. The GM stator I'd already had loose because I'm still lacing it's magnet ring into another wheel, so I used that but made an unwarranted assumption. :(

This is about where I left off before my "nap".
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Correcting my mistake took another hour or so, to make the dropouts big enough to slide the 9C axle into. But in the process of triple-checking my work, I found another issue that came back to haunt me later today. The clamps themselves are almost 3x as wide as the dropout plates, about 5mm extending to either side. I did it this way because I wanted the clamping force to be straight across the end of the plates, rather than twisting across only one face. But this means that there is some blockage of the ends of the axles next to the hub, where spacer washers are stacked on the left side, and the freewheel is on the right side.
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So getting the wheel in and out is a chore; takes about 5-10 minutes with the cargo pods removed and nothing loaded on the bike (meaning no seat, no batteries, tools, etc), so that it is light enough to handle the frame while installing the wheel.
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But getting it out...that's a whole other story, with the bike assembled. As I found out this morning after a short test ride, where the rear tire went slowly flat in the last mile, and was too flat to keep riding about 1/8 mile from home, so I had to get off and walk it. If my foot pump hadn't disintegrated early yesterday,
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I would have just aired it up repeatedly to continue home, if necessary. But now I only have a hand pump which I can barely hold onto, much less pump, with the way my hands work these days, and a 12V "Sears" pump that is rather large, thought light.
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I did nto carry it on my test ride, and wish I had. It took me over an HOUR to get the wheel off, without taking off the cargo pods and everything else on the bike. It probably would ave taken about the same time to take it all apart and then get the wheel off, but would have bene much less frustrating. :(
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Anyway, I'm considering redoing the clamping dropouts to move the clamps to the outside edges, but for now the solution is to cut all the spacer washers used so they are C-washers, and can be slipped on the axle after installation, and taken off before removing it. This will simplify things. I was already using two washers like this, but not for that reason--because I already had them and they were the right thickness.
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After finishing the dropouts and ensuring fit to the motor axle, I clamped them onto the frame over the existing dropouts, and then cut off the bottom of the existing dropouts to clear the space for the new ones, and welded the new ones onto the inside of the old ones. This allows less spacers and forces the frame wider, which gives me a little more tire clearance, so I have about 3mm on either side where the knobbies come closest to the stays.
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The derailer still used for chain tensioning is mounted to the rack/fender accesory point, which is also where the bottom cargo pod rail bolts to, so that bolt goes thru both rail and derailer to get there.
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Then I took off all the washers and torque arm and nut off the cable side, verifying that the nut indeed is stripped out, and so is the end of teh axle where the slot for wires is.
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The torque arm won't be used now that the clamping dropouts are on there, but the torque washers will be. Partly because the torque arm is damaged and needs to be welded to build it up, and then re-filed.
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They are to be used on the *inside* of the dropouts, with the tabs inside the dropouts. Previously I had the one on the right side like that, but not the left since I'd've had to take it off the wire cable and flip it, more work than I wanted when I first changed it to rear drive. Instead I used it as just a spacer and put it's tab in the groove of the C-washers.
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Then spacers are placed between those and the shoulder washers on the axle, to keep it centered in the dropouts.

What I will likely do now that I have the wheel off again is move those to the outside. This will cost me probably a millimeter of knobby clearance at the stays, but will make it easier to get the wheel in and out for repairs.

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At this point, if I had one with 60PSI "air pressure", I'd use an airless "tube" in the tire, just so I wouldn't have to deal with this problem. As it is, I think the flat was caused by me, as the hole is a tiny horizontal slit, probably a nick from a tire lever. I patched it, and will keep that tube as a spare, and am patching another thicker tube that has three holes in it to use as my main tube, assuming it passes my inflation tests before I install the wheel on the bike.

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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Post by amberwolf » Sun Mar 25, 2012 2:02 pm

The seat has needed modification for some time, and I started the process about a month or so ago, by fixing the mounting to the bike from hose clamps to welded-on tubing stacks. I still haven't finished that part, which requires holes in each tube so a screw or pin can go in there to secure it, but it has worked well enough since then that I am not bothered much by it.

The mods I did today were to remove all the strapped-on padding and hose-clamped seat back, and bend the tubing in the middle of the seat back to contour it some, then re-add the seat back's top section that is an old bleacher-back chair. Then padding was added under the lacing for the seat mesh, to support my back properly. Now I have it setup so I have a headrest and lumbar support, though I am still adjusting it all for best fit. Looks nicer, too. I also moved the rear lighting upwards a few inches.

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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Post by amberwolf » Sun Mar 25, 2012 2:09 pm

I fixed the headset problems, simply by using shims.

This is what it was like just before I took it apart to fix it
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The bottom one I bent up the shim so that it is trapped in the angled part of the bearing's outer race edge, so it can't fall out, and is pressed into place.
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It is a very tight fit now, have to tamp the bearing into place.
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The top one I did the same thing to, although the shim needed was much smaller and only one layer (the bottom one is a single layer folded over into two, to give the double-thickness required).
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Both are just aluminum flashing saved from the re-roofing of the house last year. Now there is only the fork play itself, in it's suspension.

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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Post by amberwolf » Sun Mar 25, 2012 2:10 pm

I changed the 24" front wheel for an identical 26" version from Mdd0127, and moved the disc rotor over to it. Then I added the Avid single-digit-5 brake arms and pads that Mdd0127 had also given me, so I have both rim and disc brakes on the front. I can't yet set the rim brakes closely for tight action, as the rim is not true enough for that, but they are close enough to work enough to help slow the bike in an emergency stop, which is what I need them for--the "squeeze all brake levers as hard as you can right NOW" kind of stop. :) I used the regen-actuating brake lever, which is a crappy plastic one, until I can change it out for a better one that properly actuates these brakes, and then I'll just add a switch for regen braking separately, probably on one of the brake levers but not activated by the lever itself, or rather will activate before the mechanical lever moves.


I found that I have a bit of misalignment on the rotor-to-caliper; I must've welded the mount on very very slightly angled outward despite the care I thought I took in positioning it before welding. Have to see if I can bend it inward at the rear tabs just a tiny bit. For now, it simply causes the outer edge of teh rotor to slightly touch the inner pad every rotation (the rotor isn't completely round, apparently, becuase it is mounted perfectly centered on the hub). Also, braking power pulses, which is apparently another reason why I was having shuddering during braking when not completely squeezing the pads onto the disc.

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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Post by amberwolf » Sun Mar 25, 2012 2:12 pm

Test ride, about 3 miles around the neighborhood, stops, starts, fast, slow, etc.:

The main judder problem caused by the headset is fixed, gone. YAY!

I expected the 26" wheel's change of the bike's geometry to cause me death-shimmy problmes at speed, but up to 24MPH, the fastest I got up to, it was smooth as could be. Actually was far better than it had been with 24", as the twitchiness and over-sensitivity to correction steering is gone. I can now lean back and just touch the bars to keep going.

This makes sense, as I designed the bike for same size tires front and rear, although i didn't do any calculations or anything to figure it out, I did fix it up and adjust it for two 24" wheels, originally. All frame adjustments and whatnot were done around those, right up until I put the 26" 9C motor on the front. I did try a 26" regular rear wheel at one point, but I don't remember the results of that, other than bending up the rim on potholes and taking it off, going back to a 24"--taht was back when I still had powerchair chain-drive.


So now it's two 26" wheels, and although the bike is a tad taller than I want, it rides way better than 26" rear and 24" front.

Ideally, I will get the GM/9C combo motor laced up into a 24" wheel, and then be able to go back to the 24" wheel in front, and then I'll have essentially the same geometry as I do now, so it should feel the same. Well, except for better takeoff torque from the smaller wheel, and lower top speed (which I don't care about, as I can already do 15MPH over what is allowed on the roads--for commuting, all I care about is how quickly I can get started and up to 20MPH :) ).


The only problem I had at all was in the last mile, when the rear tire started to slowly go flat. Might've started before that but I could feel it then. As noted above, it was probalby a tire lever gash, and took over an hour to get the wheel off to fix it. I have not yet put the wheel back on as I am testing another thicker tube at high pressures off the bike before I mount the wheel.


I had not planned to take it apart to check the axle/dropouts but since I did ahve to, I looked at them and saw no sign yet of problems, even with max throttle and max regen braking repeatedly over the test ride. We'll see how they last over time, though. It took months or more for the wrench-torque-arm to break, and the hose clamp on the other torque arm to shear thru.

Since I am using clamping droputs *and* axle nuts, hopefully I will not have problems like that again.







The patched tube, and the flat:
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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Post by amberwolf » Mon Mar 26, 2012 1:44 am

Turns out the thicker tubes I wanted to use are both really really bad off. One has a leak in the valve stem rubber, essentially unfixable. If it was higher up on the rubber toward the tire, I might be able to patch it and use a zip tie or similar around it to seal it. But it's right in the middle, where the rim will be when the valve sticks thru it. :( I could still do it, but I'd have to enlarge the hole in the rim for the valve stem, and that probably isn't a great idea.

The other just keeps springing new leaks every time I patch another one, so I've wasted 3 patches on it. I did the underwater bubble test first, and found one pinhole. Patched that then it would not even inflate at all, and I found a big hole somewhere else. It can't have been there to start with, or it would never have inflated at all to do the bubble test, as it only had a slow leak at first. Or it was there but didnt' tear open until the first leak was plugged. A third leak started a few inches from the first, along a "seam", as soon as I patched the second. I see no cracking or other defects that could lead to holes opening up, so I dunno. Not gonna use it.


So I used one of the last unpatched leak-free tubes I have left for 26", whcih is pretty thin-walled but not as thin as some. Outside of it I used another old thickwalled tube that came from some junk bike, and had had a total blowout on it's inside circumference. I just slit it along that circumference, cut off the valve stem, and then slipped it over the tube I am using. Then I put the slime tire liner in the tire, and slipped this tube-on-tube assembly into the tire, and mounted that onto the motor rim. Inflation test to 60PSI ok, then emptied it and reinflated several times, leaving it at 55PSI.


Reinstalling the wheel...wow, what a chore! I simplified it a bit by grinding down the inside edges of the clamps on the dropouts to make them rounder in profile and easier to slip the washers/etc past, on the inboard sides. Then I turned the whole bike upside down, which I have never done before (at least, not since I was building motor mounts for the powerchair motor, over two years ago). THAT was not fun. But it was the easiest way to do this without taking the pods and everything else off and out of the bike.

For now the torque washers are still on the inside, as I realized I still need a spacer washer on the right side to keep freewheel from rubbing frame, and it has to be about that thick anyway. If I used the torque washer on the outboard side *and* a spacer washer inboard, there would not be enough room for the nut to grab enough threads to be useful. I don't yet trust the clamping dropouts without nuts. :)


Finally, time to test ride again. Only took a couple miles of ride this time, as I am just too tired to concentrate on riding safely. But no problems happened. So for now, we'll call it a conditional success. :)

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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Post by amberwolf » Mon Mar 26, 2012 9:00 am

More test rides, a few miles total. One thing I don't like about the tall but level setup like this is that if I cross a crack in the road that is parallel to the direction of travel, the whole bike WIGGLES. I am not sure why this happens, becuase the wheels and whatnot are securely mounted in teh frame, and there is no side-to-side wiggle of any of that.

But it could be the black ABS plastic pods on teh the sides, which even though they are securely mounted, do still wiggle a bit because of the mass in them and the flexibility of the plastic itself. The left one has tools and such in it, and the right has teh battery. Different masses probably makes them wiggle at different rates once shocked, and that doesn't help stability of the bike.

So I'm looking at ways to put the battery into a case in the center frame, which is open specifically for battries to go into, originally for 3-4 20Ah-size SLA. Those didn't need a casing, but the one I have now does.


Other than that, so far everything seems an improvement. The rim brakes added don't really do much, mostly because of the brake lever being the wrong kind and plastic, partly because I can't adjust the pads very close yet till I can true the rim better. Disc brakes help a lot, though until I can bend the mounting tabs straight I can't adjust them as tight as I would like. I tried to bend them earlier but can't hold them with the tools I tried so far, while applying torque to get them into position. I could cut them off and reweld them, but would rather not have to do that as it is only a tiny repositioning needed.

The clamping dropouts are still working fine, thru testing with regen from high speed and hard accelleration from a stop, over all the local streets.

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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Post by Solcar » Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:43 am

That trouble with the bad inner tubes brought back memories of an old moped that was in my yard when I moved in. Someone had shot holes in the wheel :shock:, but the tube was about 22 inches in diameter. I put a 24" on it and was surprised it worked so well.

It also reminded of how on some worn tubes that have been run on low air, they often end up being a lost cause because of having been abraded so much by a lot of pinching that happens when going over bumps.
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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Post by amberwolf » Mon Mar 26, 2012 11:45 am

Yes; I've had that happen back when I was unelectrificated.

I have found that I can usually use a too-small innertube on a bigger rim/wheel, up to at least a couple of inches (24 on a 26, for instance) but never the other way around. If you use a big one on a small wheel it will rub holes in the folds/wrinkles of the larger tube. :( This happened during one experiment on CrazyBike2, posted back on the ELectricle blog before I found ES.


I am about to head out to the store for a grocery run, so we'll see how the taller bike deals with cargo now, especially in turns. I also have no idea what the traction is really like on the tires I have on it now, both of which are totally different shapes and styles and rubber types from what I had before (which were softer grippy compounds).

I wish I could find that hookworm-like knockoff 24" tire I have in a 26", and maybe in a 20". Well, I *have* found them, but they're too expensive, given that it was like $5 each (maybe $7 including shipping?) for these. If I am going to spend "real money" for tires, I'd rather get moped tires, if they would fit on the bicycle rims I have.

I would *really* rather get moped rims, too, but so far no luck on that locally in scrap stuff. Eventually I will have to go ahead and build around that rear dirtbike wheel, and live with the knobby that's on it until I can replace it with a "road slick".

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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Post by Solcar » Mon Mar 26, 2012 12:27 pm

Maybe the reason I got away with a tube a couple inches too big is that I put only a few hundred miles on it. Hopefully some moped rims will find their way to you. Good luck on your test errand.
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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Post by amberwolf » Mon Mar 26, 2012 1:36 pm

I didnt' even get a few miles on it before it wore thru, IIRC. I guess if the tube doesn't have wrinkled spots that pinch/rub against the tire, it won't have the problem, but the one I used did.


The test went fine, although the wiggle is notably worse with cargo in teh pods, because they *do* wiggle around as the lower rail is not as stiff as the top, especially at it's rear end where it is unsupported. 25-ish pounds in each pod and a sack of potatoes in the center frame isn't much load for the bike, but it felt like a lot more because of the higher COG the whole bike has now. It is nice enough going straight, but compared to the smaller wheels, especially smaller in back, it is very different in turns and leans of any amount.

I am definitely wanting to finish lacing up the 24" version of the rear motor wheel with that spare magnet ring, and then try the bike out with 24" front and rear to compare. I'm pretty sure it will be just about exactly what I am looking for in handling. If not, I'll try 24" motor rear and 26" disc front, and see what happens.


All of this is not just experimentation for this bike, but also working out final geometry concept for the new bike. Since that ibke is just the main frame right now, and still has to have the rear swingarm designed and built (depending on which wheel it ends up with the swingarm could be very different), I can still easily change it's overall geometry to match whatever tire/wheel size set I end up preferring.

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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Post by Solcar » Mon Mar 26, 2012 6:18 pm

Another factor probably was that mine was a new tube.

That balance-shifting problem of your bike when going over grooves on the pavement seems a pretty weird one. That's a good problem to solve before continuing on the new frame.
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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Post by amberwolf » Tue Mar 27, 2012 8:41 am

Yeah, the wiggle is an issue, which can be solved a few ways. The best is to stiffen things up, but that's what the new bike is for, so if I'm going to do that kind of work I might as well move to the new frame. :lol: But that will be a while as I need different parts than I have or need to work out how to modify what I have to work, and then do that.

I need to make a battery case that can go in the frame anyway, for the new bike, so if I am going to do work to fix the problem I might as well do this work. So I'm doing some pondering and searching of my bits and bobs to see what stuff will make the best case that can be used on either bike.

That will let me move some of the weight that's outboard to the center, and also move it forward so it is more balanced front to rear, less stress on the unsuspended rear wheel. This will help the wiggle problem at least while it is not loaded with cargo.


Moving back to 24" wheels will also help, as it will lower the wiggling mass and it'll end up like it used to be, when it wasn't a problem. So lacing up that motor wheel in 24" also needs to be done.



Regarding the inner tube, AFAICR it had been brand new, a replacement from Slime when the previous one had been punctured along with the tire liner, tire, and even denting the rim, by a roofing nail that I must've hit JUST right when I was on DayGlo Avenger. So AFAICT it was simply that it had been folded and wrinkled, causing the wear-thru on the smaller wheel, since those spots are where it wore thru.

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Re: Semi-Recumbent Recycled-Parts Cargo eBike: "CrazyBike2"

Post by Solcar » Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:15 am

That nail got a straight shot, for sure.

I recall having read on an inner tube box, I guess, about the practice of letting most of the air out after installing and pumping it up for the first time. Then when I pulled side to side on the tire, going around the whole thing before reinflating, that might have helped. I'm not sure how many folks do all that since I think that second part is what I thought of doing for good measure.
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