GCinDC's Giant DH Comp

[GCinDC]

You clear, smudge free gopro videos make me sad

hyena beaten? naw... what happened to the clear epoxy and an optical grinder (preferably operated by a hottie in a white jacket) or, ok, by you with a dremel, electric razor or whatever... and yes, your little spot is noticeable (kids!), but i can ignore it. or better yet, if you can't fix it, maybe in postproduction you can create a round mask around the spot and insert a mini video of talking head narration? or something a la Bond intro perhaps?


so second day of commuting on MC wheel and the issues are thus:
- Max speed of 30mph on the flat! Granted, there's a slight rubbing of the tire to frame - i have to 'true' after every jump until i relace and undish the motor (and hmmm... i'm wondering if i can do that with the wheel on. i mean, removing that friggin tire is going to be a JOB with bicycle tools. or, perhaps i can unscrew each spoke (on the right side, that's laced on the rotor inside), bend the spoke enough to yank it out, and re-insert from outside of rotor, and tighten back up in nipple...?

Oh yea, but then the wheel is still in the 9X7 and I'm back to the speed issue...

On GT, with hs3540 on 26" tire, I hit 50mph going downhill! And now I can't do more than 30mph. i'm slowing down cars... it's like someone stuck me back in 2009.

I know I could add more Voltage, but all my stuff is geared for 20s...

So if i kept the MC tire and swapped the 9x7 for the hs3540, I should expect to get a top speed of 40MPH?

(Or a bit less considering the tire bulk, friction, etc - I think I could live with 38mph top speed in that wheel...)
nevermind the efficiency. that'd be ~13 min of fun before overheating...

Or, if I kept the hs3540 in the 2.5" hookworm (not sure how fast sensorless will be), that would compare to 9x7 in MC tire now as (much faster than shown, really):


By the way, is it me or is that HOOKWORM a hell of a lot better tire than the CST cyclops? I've run CST for years and thought since they looked the same, they'd feel the same, but I swear the hookworm is like butter up there in the front. Is the rubber that much better? I know that the tire says "Pro" on it, so maybe it's that, or the evil 'exxon'?

Anyway, I just hit mtbr forum to find out, and found this gem , from here:

[andreym]

Just another graph to make you think again about cro-motor
you should mainly look at the efficiency and torque here...

[GCinDC]

you guys are killing me.

my list of to do's is a MILE long.

i have to also think of my family...

speaking of which... at the cherry blossoms....

[chroot]

@greg- I have Cyclops CST and Hookworm tires, Both same company Maxxis made these tires and I just found out Cyclops CST tires went discontinue production. Good thing, I bought 12 of Cyclops CST tires last week for plenty backup years to run out.

For the comparison, The Hookworm is basically larger wide 2.5" and CST 2.4" and I abused tires pretty much thru the bad roads at high speed. I blew up the tire tube but itself the tires S U P E R B! except I find the Hookworm has kinda built-in Kevlar liner inside the hookworm tire. The Cyclops CST seems doesn't have kevlar liner built-in so I add the Stop 2x tire liner for the flat protection.

The traction, I pushed my ebike hard every corners (former motorcycle racing 600cc super stock class) and Both have been excellent traction.

The side wall, I find Hookworm has thick sidewall than Cyclops CST has super thin sidewall which is noticeable Cyclops CST act like sponge when hit the bumpy = AWESOME feeling smooth comforts ride so the Hookworm is bit rough every time hit the bumpy and your body scattered.

I just started using Cyclops CST, Haven't put miles on it yet, I put hookworm almost 7000 miles and still look brand new.

Did this answer your question?

[GCinDC]

former motorcycle racing 600cc super stock class

that partly explains why you buy enough for a large family.

i'm loving the hookworms.

re the lacing, this is what i'm talking about changing, as i can't center the wheel enough w/ truing. would it be best to have the butt ends INSIDE the rotor flange our OUTSIDE?

20120328_153126.jpg (159.99 KiB) Viewed 1702 times

the outside ones look a bit bowed, so probaby better remve them and lace on inside?

[shorza]

from yesterday's attempt. just demonstrating programming for anyone curious: usb > ttl driver working (controller attached, not shown). ebike lab program up, modded settings for eb312. start transmit. hold switch for 5 sec. nothing...

Have you tried a different Comm number?

That removable battery enclosure looks great, and I may blatantly copy you with my next build. I don't have a frame yet, but am considering the DH Comp.
I'm planning 6 x 6s 8ah lipo. Do you think it will fit?
What's holding it in besides the elastic rope?
Are you worried about it falling out? or someone stealing it?

Cheers,
Chris

[GCinDC]

Have you tried a different Comm number?

yeah, the the usb > ttl driver's on comm 4, and i had to set it. if i didn't do it in vid, i did it later.

That removable battery enclosure looks great.... What's holding it in besides the elastic rope? Are you worried about it falling out? or someone stealing it?

Thx, but it's just a prototype to see how it works. Fits and removes fine, but i really don't need to remove it now that it's warming up and I can charge in place. And while the bungee worked great on the GT shape (particularly as i used it to hold my kryptonite lock on the right side), the bungee doesn't fit well on the dh comp. when properly tight, it's very secure, but you may have noticed in vid when it fell out, before it was bungeed properly.

Yes, always worried about bike being stolen, not so much about the pack, but I'm careful about where I park and for how long. I lock the frame and the pack (thru the handle).

I'm planning 6 x 6s 8ah lipo. Do you think it will fit?

no, not unless you carve off a triangle of the lipos . i did a quick mock up for you:

The attachment 3x6s8ah.jpg is no longer available

gotta run, but here are teaser photos for the next upgrade (drama):

The attachment 3x6s8ah.jpg is no longer available

3x6s8ah.jpg (29.91 KiB) Viewed 1647 times

more later.

[crusoe]

That removable battery enclosure looks great, and I may blatantly copy you with my next build. I don't have a frame yet, but am considering the DH Comp.

Where is this enclosure you speak of?

[GCinDC]

Where is this enclosure you speak of?

you have to send me $5 by paypal and then i'll send pictures of it.

or, you can see pics of it in development from p. 1-5 of this thread, with the more recent here on p.6, but beware that you'll actually have to click the page number. (it's just a quick and dirty, nothing to rival keyne's and co..)

so, andrey, how did my wiring job compare to your diagram? your instructions were to:

car1248pinout.png (10.21 KiB) Viewed 1623 times

1) AC in on P1/P2
2) Jump D1 > A3 (41.5V)
3) Add Power SW on B3 > A3
4) P4 = + and P5 = -

20120328_2157132.jpg (147.48 KiB) Viewed 1621 times

I found it rather challenging to solder to the jumper pins and accidentally soldered two by accident, (foreshadow) but i finally succeeded on D1>A3, and then realized that since B3 is a shorter pin, I could cut up and insert a JST-XH to connect to the SW line....

Then I took particular attention to your suggestion below and chose 12g HK noodle wire:

and do not forget to use at least 12awg wires for DC output - I tried 14awg initially and those were hot to touch after 2-3 minutes of use, So I replaced mine to 12awg.

After soldering it all up, I plugged it in and measured 42V at the end! WOOHOO!

I knew I'd need to figure out a way to secure those connection points, but it was getting late, and I was determined to get this charger running for today (since I had a long noon errand). So I went and built the 20s -> 10s battery connector/plug, after carefully drawing it up, soldered it:

Then I was about to epoxy the connectors, ideally on the pack so it mated perfectly, so I put each connector pair in place slowly, thinking of etard's kff, and trying to convince myself that I did it all correctly, when I gently made contact with the last connector and suddenly heard this zapping, frying sound somewhere on the charger.

I yanked off the battery connectors and damnit, half of the strands of the 12g HK wire had frayed out over the jumpers! I should have tinned those leads, but instead twisted the strands and soldered them in place, but obviously didn't get them all!

Horror. Disbelief. Shame. Denial. Apathy. Disgust. It was after midnight so I went to bed.

This morning I unsoldered the HK noodle wire and soldered in place 2" of solid 12g household and made sure the other pins were clear. I plugged in the AC and was greeted with more odd electronic sounds, which I'm started to equate with ebike pain:


I let it go for a bit longer, and then the FAN cam on! A reprieve! I bravely hooked it up to a pack but nothing happened, and then checked the DC output and there was nothing, 0V...

What makes that sound? Any suggestions what to look for?

And stop laughing emil, or I'll make an animated gif of the last pictures you sent from that island.

I don't think dbaker will answer the phone next time I call. Don't worry, I haven't fried your ebike tester, yet...

[andreym]

What makes that sound? Any suggestions what to look for?

I believe this sound does not mean good news
I forgot to warn you about those unused pins, they should not be shortened to output or input wires.
If you are sure there is no more short and you still hear this relay clicking I`m afraid it is damaged
And unfortunately this thing is not so easy to repair because it is not simple Chinese charger that could be fixed by replacing crappy mosfet ...

[shorza]

no, not unless you carve off a triangle of the lipos . i did a quick mock up for you:

3x6s8ah.jpg

Thanks, I really appreciate your help. Now to figure out how i can trim the corner off a lipo brick without losing too much ah.

[Duc998]

Hey GC,

my case attached. Not finished yet. Have to seal it on one side and maybe a door on the other side.Mine's stainless steel,
Dont plan on taking the box out at all so wondering how I should secure it? I've got some 3M Epoxy 420?

[GCinDC]

unfortunately this thing is not so easy to repair because it is not simple Chinese charger that could be fixed by replacing crappy mosfet ...

extremely well made box, tricky to open until i discovered screw under inspection sticker.


and as exepected, i can't see anything wrong, nor can i even see much, it's all in there so tight... so i'm very disappointed, as i was started to like the idea of 45min charge times!

and of course, andrey it is not your fault! i will break anything i touch right now...

but i'm not the first one to destroy things, am i?

now, about where to find another, any suggestions???

by the way, in the box that the charger arrived, there was a letter from the seller complaining about how they've been banned by eBay several times and no longer will use it. from now on, they said, they will only sell on orengeo.com and i could even find an old listing via a google search, but the site looks sketchy to me...

[gensem]

Dual RSP-1000 48v in series?
Not cheap but its reliable and will charge 100v around 25a

[andreym]

Dual RSP-1000 48v in series?
Not cheap but its reliable and will charge 100v around 25a

they are WAY MUCH HEAVIER compared to car1248 ones. And bigger in size. And much more expensive. So what is the point of using them?

now, about where to find another, any suggestions???

as for the paper with orangeo link I also got recently. I even asked seller if he have more of them or going to get more. He told me that was the latest ones he had
however I still have couple of spare ones if you still want to get one, pm me

[gensem]

Dual RSP-1000 48v in series?
Not cheap but its reliable and will charge 100v around 25a

they are WAY MUCH HEAVIER compared to car1248 ones. And bigger in size. And much more expensive. So what is the point of using them?

2.5kw of charging power instead of 600w?
3,8kg only

edit: my mistake... it tough car1258 was the 600w BMS battery charger.

Im not sure about the diferences.

[andreym]

2.5kw of charging power instead of 600w?
3,8kg only

my car1248 weight only 1.3kg each and outputs 30a at 50volts = 1500w, so for 2 of them it will be 3kw in 2.6kg,
still 1.2kg less than overpriced RSP and 500w more powerful

[gensem]

2.5kw of charging power instead of 600w?
3,8kg only

my car1248 weight only 1.3kg each and outputs 30a at 50volts = 1500w, so for 2 of them it will be 3kw in 2.6kg,
still 1.2kg less than overpriced RSP and 500w more powerful

Do you know where to order the cart1248 with international shipping?

[andreym]

Do you know where to order the cart1248 with international shipping?

Unfortunately they are over on e-bay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/260847005833
and the seller told me he is not going to get more

[GCinDC]

[GCinDC]

aka how to sheer off the thread on disk...

[knoxie]

Oh No Greg you just aint having any luck? you need a bomber mate, that's it I'm ordering you one! on the house hmm suppose its a bit beyond liquid metals ability?

[GCinDC]

you need a bomber mate, that's it I'm ordering you one! on the house

address sent in PM

yeah, it's been a very destructive streak, that's for sure.

i've always intended to lace the M/C tire onto the hs3540, so let's just consider the old 9C just the test platform. it will go nicely on another bike, once i replace the side cover:

20120402_sheeredbrakeadapter.jpg (241.44 KiB) Viewed 1623 times

the sheer failure is well known, right? but i'd expected the threads would get sheered, not that the entire thing would crack off.

20120402_evulsed9x7sidecover.jpg (230.41 KiB) Viewed 1623 times

dbaker prolly had loctited the threaded adapter on. good stuff.

so moving along... i put in a good four hours last night rebuilding the DH Comp, starting with the upgraded hs3540.

the lyen ebike tester show that the blue hall wasn't working (solid red light)

but with a multimeter, i discovered a short between Blue and GND! Dang it! This then echoed in my mind...

Be sure to change out the hall wires too.

I could have ignored halls and installed sensorless controller, but would have preferred to use the sensored controller. so carefully removing the sidecover... can you see the frayed cloth? that was visible from outside and i suspected there was damage to the wires...

20120402_164732.jpg (245.21 KiB) Viewed 1623 times

but with a magnifying glass i couldn't see any exposed wires:

20120402_inspectingmotorwires.jpg (228.62 KiB) Viewed 1623 times

hmm. i checked the halls with the ebike tester again, and they all work - see the red lights going on and off when the magnet passes?

so the short must be in the wires, and if not now, maybe just when compressed in channel, so let's give the wires some more room:

i then taped up the wires where the cloth was torn, tossed the wheel back together, tested it on the bench and it sang beautifully! i ran it no load, WOT for several minutes, and watched as the motor temp went from 16C to 20C. woohoo!

i tossed it on the bike, and then lined the brake up perfectly with some washers - it rubbed with last motor and i couldn't stand any more NOISE. we learn. we learn...

i used a wire tie to clamp the wires away from the disk screws, just to make sure there wasn't any rub, and fired it up:

no longer singing, that's for sure. and when i put my ass on it and tested in the alley, you'll notice there's no mechanical rub under pedal power but with some throttle..:


yeah, we're used to this now...

no worries. just time to fire up the brand new sensorless controller. oops, gotta replace the connectors with bullets, and might as well watch some hulu:

20120402_changing_controller_connectors.jpg (232.46 KiB) Viewed 1623 times

i tossed it on, and it tested fine, though a bit anemic... well, we'll see in the morning... i think it'll make it to work at least. i actually had trouble falling asleep cause i was excited to ride it.

and it did:

i had the old lipo in the pocket again, connected by alligator clips to power temp sensor, and damn, i never got above 64C! the controller was probably programmed with conservative settings so no idiots would burn up their motors:

eb312-settings.jpg (85.63 KiB) Viewed 1623 times

Overall impressions of this build so far:
- brief jerky start from standstill
- surprising low torque during initial acceleration
- lackadaisical throttle response after coasting
- curious grumbing in middle range, wasn't sure if it was something in the motor, but it disappeared at higher speed
- eventually got up to max 38mph downhill, which was fresh after slowpoking around
- brakes feel good, and thankfully are now quiet due to proper alignment (lesson learned: tighten axle before aligning )
- need to reprogram to get regen?

so let's see if i can make it through the day without destroying anything - i might even like to get thru the week, but let's not temp fate.

ebikes are reliable, just as long as you're willing to work on them all through the night, if that's what it takes.

[grindz145]

OMG Greg, that looks so sweet!

It's all about sleepless nights when it comes to ebikes man.

My sensorless experience was MUCH worse, I'm glad to hear you're in much better shape!

[GCinDC]

it needs a cleanup. i didn't bother to wire-tie the wires, thinking i'd have to cut them off when something broke!

and i'm still trying to figure out how to bungee this bag. i forgot to mention that i thought the hall failure was actually due to a loose contact in the connector, that was yanked out because of the pressure of the bungee! turns out it didn't matter after i fixed it, but lesson learned... no more wrapping it around those wires!

and for my own reference, here's are the settings of my sensored controllers:

eb212sensored.jpg (92.28 KiB) Viewed 1614 times