GCinDC's Giant DH Comp

grindz145 · Post by **grindz145** » Apr 03, 2012 10:37 am

That's some serious current for sensored operation. Be careful if you lose sync! Get off the throttle quick, or else bye bye mosfet

GCinDC · Post by **GCinDC** » Apr 03, 2012 11:43 am

grindz145 wrote:That's some serious current for sensored operation. Be careful if you lose sync! Get off the throttle quick, or else bye bye mosfet

i've had a pair of the eb212 controllers programmed with those settings since Nov 2010, and i can assure you, i've not been careful...

as far as the halls go, however, break out the marshmallows... (that said, the flat sided 9C in the JRH wheel that i ran all thru 2011 is still going..)

i might need to double-check the rshunt value, but on this morning's commute, the CA was reading close to 40A continuously up hills w/ sensorless that it used to read closer to 60A w/ sensored.

with the hs3540, you'd think i'd get a jump on a 9x7 @24s (especially if i sneak another 5s on board

) if ever sailorboy gets back...

: ruff_vacation.jpg (46.45 KiB) Viewed 2078 times

but now with this sensorless jobbie, i'm thinking i'll need to up the rated current to at least 60A...

grindz145 · Post by **grindz145** » Apr 03, 2012 12:29 pm

Greg, that current is fine with Halls, but once you "loose sync" on a sensorless controller, I would worry, very different scenario.

I missed it, who is sailorboy?

O wait is EB212 sensorless? I'm confused...

GCinDC · Post by **GCinDC** » Apr 03, 2012 1:06 pm

grindz145 wrote:Greg, that current is fine with Halls, but once you "loose sync" on a sensorless controller, I would worry, very different scenario.

should i aim the gopro at the fet side of the controller to capture it?

O wait is EB212 sensorless? I'm confused...

eb212 sensored. eb312 sensorless. more at lyen.com

I missed it, who is sailorboy?

a local ebiker. i'd suggested we race before he went on vaca... to which he responded:

Skippic wrote:I'm charging my battery to 4.3V

grindz145 · Post by **grindz145** » Apr 03, 2012 1:10 pm

Haha, thanks for getting me up to speed

GCinDC · Post by **GCinDC** » Apr 03, 2012 5:51 pm

the love that keeps on coming...

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Skippic · Post by **Skippic** » Apr 03, 2012 6:24 pm

Yeah, and I accidentally charged them up to 4.46V. Lucky you it was raining ^^

GCinDC · Post by **GCinDC** » Apr 04, 2012 7:20 am

5 miles thru the city at 7:30am w/o hardly stopping.

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the total time/moving time delta was just me dicking around in garage before heading out...

and to get up to max speed 42mph, i had to do pauld's death race tuck.

up that same hill last night, i pedalled hard to get to 30mph..

it's interesting riding w/o regen. i bet the motor (and controller) have a lot more time to cool down, cause when i'm running regen, the motor and controller are ALWAYS pushing amps, one way or the other...

no news on the fast chargers yet. i am somewhat concerned they won't shut off at voltage, and if the fan continues to run it may draw unwanted attention, but it does seem like an excellent value and form factor.

for now, i'm using the meanwell psu, and turnigy accuwhatever, which starts with an alarming fan whine:

should i hit it with a drop of oil?

oh yeah, i've not been balance charging, just lipo charging, but if i plug in the 5s balance connector, it seems to balance anyway... does that make sense? that just by virue of paralleling balance leads during charge that it would balance??? is so, what's the point of balance charging!?

veloman · Post by **veloman** » Apr 05, 2012 1:03 am

I picked up a staple today too, went right through the Mr Tuffy tire liner.... It takes a bit of force to stab a really sharp knife through them. What are the odds that a staple can point straight up on the road? Then you hit it. It was a slow leak, didn't notice it till later while I was at home.

GCinDC · Post by **GCinDC** » Apr 11, 2012 9:20 am

gosh this sensorless controller is anemic. it absolutely refuses to draw more than 3kw at any time. i can't even get the motor above 65C. how frustrating!

so i just programmed it, upping the phase amps from 80 to 100 so we'll see about that...

meanwhile, the bike tire's got a bit more speed, but not much with this sensorless controller, and i do miss that sensation of the big M/C tire:

as you recall, i snapped off the threaded disk flange (by braking after jump), and while i'm doing repairs, i'd been wondering if i could fix the dish issue by...

GCinDC wrote:...unscrewing each spoke (on the right side, that's laced on the rotor inside), bend the spoke enough to yank it out, and re-insert from outside of rotor, and tighten back up in nipple...?

well curiosity got the best of me, and unfortunately, in order to replace the spoke from the inside, it does need to be bent, just a bit...

: 20120410_212303.jpg (79.46 KiB) Viewed 2188 times

otherwise it must go thru gap between the opposite side spokes and couldn't be bent back, certainly not w/o loosening all of them. the spoke can be bent back more or less (less) straight, but looks traumatized.

i'm not surprised, but i decided the main goal of this operation would be to gather some spoke data to rebuild the wheel from scratch.

step 1 was to let the air out of the tube, but i was amazed how stiff the tire was. i could easily believe it possible to ride on this tire completely flat!

but then i laid the wheel down and put a lot of pressure on the tire to 'break the seal'. then with clamps i was able to shift the tire/tube over enough to peek under at the tops of the nipples.

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as i'd feared, my adjustments to undish it had overly loosened the one side (left one shown). notice how the spoke isn't threaded to the top/end of the nipple:

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during an MC wheel spoke hunt, i'd found this instructive image:

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the obvious challenge with this wheel build is securing 12g (2.6mm) spokes with (5.5mm) butt ends in giant 8mm wheel holes:

: 20120410_205357.jpg (69.29 KiB) Viewed 2188 times

dbaker accomplished it here with two washers, both of which bent to the shape of the hole:

: 20120410_205121.jpg (71.69 KiB) Viewed 2188 times

i have no idea where he got the oval ones.

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and now the data:

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binlagin · Post by **binlagin** » Apr 11, 2012 12:31 pm

What app are you running on your Andriod device to record those statistics?

GCinDC · Post by **GCinDC** » Apr 11, 2012 12:41 pm

My Tracks. Nothing fancy...

So I programmed the controller. (And this proves the chip is dead on my last one.

)

Going to try it at 100A phase for a while and see how it goes. Some quick tests had it hitting 4kw regularly, and it felt better. Still weak off the line tho. And no regen yet. Looks like I need to set up an ebrake line.

GCinDC · Post by **GCinDC** » Apr 12, 2012 8:22 am

grindz145 wrote:Greg, that current is fine with Halls, but once you "loose sync" on a sensorless controller, I would worry, very different scenario.

Can you describe exactly what causes sync loss? You mentioned backing off of throttle quickly. Do you have personal experience with it, and what happens?

Considering how much stuff I've destroyed lately, I've wanted to go easy, so just upped the phase amps from 80 to 100 and the rated from 30 to 37.5 (do I recall correctly that these should stay in a 2.66:1 relationship?)

: eb312_37.5A.jpg (81.78 KiB) Viewed 2125 times

And I'm much happier with performance. As I said, it draws 4kw continuously which is a lot more useful in quickly getting around cars and pulling up to a max of 46mph.

It was cold this morning, and slightly downhill, but motor temp was only 65C! This really makes me wonder because my inbound commute w/ the sensored controller and monster wheel (on 9x7) that got up to 130C, no problem!

I may also be running cooler now because I don't have regen. I do want to set that up. Now that I've got hyrdaulic rear brakes, I can't use the electronic brake lever, so am thinking of dissecting one to get magnet and whatever to glue/screw/tape onto the hydraulic lever. Anyone got pics of such a setup? I'm still surprised how few people use regen...

Skippic · Post by **Skippic** » Apr 12, 2012 8:38 am

Forget regen, just get good brakes. For the brake switch you can use a hall or a reed switch. I'm interested if regen does heat up the motor as much as you say.

sn0wchyld · Post by **sn0wchyld** » Apr 12, 2012 9:01 am

it does have a pretty notable warming effect... ive got my regen on a separate switch for that reason... so if i'm racing round i can just heat up the brakes, but if im on a long downhill or riding for range then the regens available when needed.

I use a micro switch, ziptied to the break leaver. that way, I can pull on the regen, and then pull a bit harder to add in the disk brake, or just pull the disk brake on its own. works like a charm.

gensem · Post by **gensem** » Apr 12, 2012 9:18 am

sn0wchyld wrote:it does have a pretty notable warming effect... ive got my regen on a separate switch for that reason... so if i'm racing round i can just heat up the brakes, but if im on a long downhill or riding for range then the regens available when needed.

I use a micro switch, ziptied to the break leaver. that way, I can pull on the regen, and then pull a bit harder to add in the disk brake, or just pull the disk brake on its own. works like a charm.

I was almost sure that regen was adding heat to my motor, have you tested strong vs weak regen?
Whats the efficiency on regen, 75%?

GCinDC · Post by **GCinDC** » Apr 12, 2012 7:53 pm

gensem wrote:have you tested strong vs weak regen?
Whats the efficiency on regen, 75%?

not sure if you're asking me or Snow, but i've tested the 1 and 2 settings via programming and there's not a lot of difference. methods told me that he got fed up w/ regen with his kelly controller cause it came on like a brick going anything above 5mph. i would not like that, but i love the level i run regen via the infineons. i don't do it to charge the pack, or for any efficiency. i do it for braking, because when i'm not accelerating, i'm braking, or about to...

i love regen because i can brake substantially w/o loosening my throttle grip to grab the lever. why have to grab a lever when the act of letting off throttle causes braking.

if i want to coast, which occasionally i will do (and it only matters above 14mph as regen won't kick in below that), i just hold the throttle open a touch...

also, i liked regen a lot back when i went through rear rim brakes every couple months, and the black dust that got over everything...

Skippic wrote:Forget regen, just get good brakes.

this comment actually makes me want to implement variable regen.

Duc998 · Post by **Duc998** » Apr 12, 2012 9:50 pm

you running any lights GC? I'm interested in the one from ebay 24-90v 12w and hoping I can tap into the aux of my CA-DP.

GCinDC · Post by **GCinDC** » Apr 13, 2012 8:54 am

Duc998 wrote:you running any lights GC? I'm interested in the one from ebay 24-90v 12w and hoping I can tap into the aux of my CA-DP.

not yet. but thanks for asking. i searched on 24-90v and found the thread! unbeatable deal. just have to wait a month or so...

i finally got a magura throttle. the cable is very short.

anyway, i dug through my junk (stop laughing skippic) and found my resistors and now have to figure out how to mod the signal, which i did w/ 1k ohm resistors inline w/ pos and neg on my GT's magura, but i might have also adjusted the internal pot as well.

anyway, i thought i'd hook it up to the ebike tester and what do you know! handy thing!

Lenk42602 · Post by **Lenk42602** » Apr 13, 2012 9:50 am

GCinDC wrote: the obvious challenge with this wheel build is securing 12g (2.6mm) spokes with (5.5mm) butt ends in giant 8mm wheel holes:
20120410_205357.jpg
dbaker accomplished it here with two washers, both of which bent to the shape of the hole:
20120410_205121.jpg
i have no idea where he got the oval ones.
20120410_205212.jpg

Greg, if you want to circumvent the washer issue, JRH had some custom spoke nipples manufactured from Sapim that threaded into 12&13 guage spokes, but the head flanges on the nipples were designed larger than a normal bicycle nipple head to fit mc rims. This was to avoid the washer issue. Invariably they will come loose again...

Might wanna check and see if he has any still.

Len

knoxie · Post by **knoxie** » Apr 13, 2012 10:07 am

Greg going back to the broken side cover disc mount, doesnt Justin sell them on his site?

http://www.ebikes.ca/store/store_connectors.php

GCinDC · Post by **GCinDC** » Apr 13, 2012 10:47 am

knoxie wrote:broken side cover disc mount

first off, i was able to salvage the disk adapter - no idea where dbaker got it... i'm thinking i will thread on and jb weld to side cover.

i do see justin's got spares of the newer (flat) side cover, but the MC wheel is on an older 9x7 with the rounded sides and the side covers are not interchangeable. i do have (dirty) spare side covers. and rather than redrilling, i'm thinking about sealing the covers on and squirting in snake oil.

Lenk42602 wrote:JRH had some custom spoke nipples manufactured from Sapim that threaded into 12&13 guage spokes,

thanks, len. i'm sure JRH is tired of hearing from me.

he told me he's got (or will have soon) nipples to fit 6.4mm holes, but these rims have 8mm holes...

i'm definitely not crazy about using washers. i never even rode in the rain, and can see some rust starting. what's ironic is that i got the wheel hoping it would be indestructible, but because of dish issue ended up constantly adjusting it and doing more maintenance than a 26 rim!

i wish it weren't so expensive to ship these motors/wheels around because i'd much rather have them built by a pro. might be worth it next time.

GrayKard · Post by **GrayKard** » Apr 13, 2012 11:13 pm

GCinDC wrote: first off, i was able to salvage the disk adapter - no idea where dbaker got it... i'm thinking i will thread on and jb weld to side cover.

Looks the same as the ones Grin Tech sells.

GCinDC wrote: i'm definitely not crazy about using washers. i never even rode in the rain, and can see some rust starting. what's ironic is that i got the wheel hoping it would be indestructible, but because of dish issue ended up constantly adjusting it and doing more maintenance than a 26 rim!

i wish it weren't so expensive to ship these motors/wheels around because i'd much rather have them built by a pro. might be worth it next time.

Maybe you should try a moped wheel setup, might be a better compromise.

Gary

GCinDC · Post by **GCinDC** » Apr 16, 2012 9:11 am

Received teflon coated 28g wire (probably should have gotten 24g, but so far so good)
Rewired Halls on the hs3540. long (boring) vid of an ebiker's saturday night.

Swapped old 45A controller for 37.5A sensorless. OMG.

night and day. how did i put up with that sensorless for so long!

i'm back to wheelies and torque at 40mph, easily powering me up to mid 40's. that thing was not pulling 4kw, btw. rshunt setting must be different.. i'll have to test with watt meter inline.

anyway, i'm ready, skippic.

i cleaned up the cockpit as well

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- chopped an inch off each side of handlebars

were 27.5", now 25.5" (GT's are 24")
- adjusted handlebars forward
- installed magura throttle
- adjusted brake lever position
- flipped gear shift upside to left side
- removed handlebars to route CA clamp under and through so it's centered
- centered temp sensor below CA (now runs off hall current, and doesn't have enough current to beep as loud.

)
- wrapped and tied loose wires

holding my breath to whip around this stinker:

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Skippic · Post by **Skippic** » Apr 16, 2012 9:24 am

I might need surgery, so no racing anytime soon.

Endless Sphere

GCinDC's Giant DH Comp

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