moonshine's Giant DH Comp

Alright, so I've been actually working on this bike for the past year now...getting all the parts and stuff, but now that i have it running, GCinDC convinced me to start a build thread since I'm running into problems.

List of Materials:

03 Giant DH Comp
Lyen 18fet 4115 controller (with some extra work done) (BLOWN and getting repaired)
Lyen 12fet 4110 sensorless (backup, thanks GC)
30s2p (6-turnigy 6s 5ah 20C lipo and 4-zippys 6s 5ah 20C)
Icecube's lipo harness (75a andersons everywhere)
Falcon EV bag (until i get my enclosure done)
Kiwi's AWESOME DROPOUTS
16t freewheel
x5404 (hubzilla on the way...)

right now, the bike is running just fine, albeit a little weak with the sensorless, but i learned my lesson by dickin around with a shitty throttle, 30s2p, and the 5404 at 2am.

Problems encountered:
-messed up one of the phases on the 18fet controller. I was being stupid and went crazy with the settings.....

-definitely need some dishing with the 5404 in 135mm dropouts...There wasn't much i could do with the wheel that it was laced in. so far its ok...becasue i don't have the 2.70 knobbies on it, i have a high roller 2.35 borrowed from GC.
-I have no rear disc...since the 5404 is all weird when lined up in my dropouts...
-i think thats actually all i can remember for now.

I don't know how to get the pictures to show up on the post...so my bad...apparently they're too big as attachments...

ill post the pics once i figure out this size limit malarky.

there's one.

Hmm, I've ran my 18fet at those settings - it does get pretty hot if no airflow over it. The only thing I found odd about your settings was the 115% 3 way switch speed settings. Maybe that pushed the amperage overboard?

I do remember lyen telling me that when you put in 50a for example, in reality it's actually pulling around 55a. Something to keep in mind!

Well, the thing is...i don't really have a three speed switch. So i thought i would just keep at 115% for awesome throttle power. It was awesome...but with my cheap ass half twist throttle, it was wayyyy toooo twitchy. I couldn't actually really start it without popping a wheelie.

on another note, i reprogrammed my 12fet sensoreless to 50A main/100A phase. I sent the amp limit on my CA to 50...and i get about 5kw max. The controller gets warm, but the 5404 doesn't feel warm at all. I'm running 24s2p and I seem to get about 13 or so miles on just throttle power....Admittedly i usually go half throttle to full throttle. How are peeps getting range with 2p??? My max speed on this 12fet SACless controller is about 42. i hit ~45 downhill. It was frickin awesome looking at people's reactions in downtown bethesda/chevy chase as I pass them. HAHAHAHA

Lyen is repairing my 18fet....Does anyone have a nice tutorial on how to beef up a controller?? Also, JRH has my hubzilla which is getting laced into a 26" large marge xC rim. it's double walled and has a triple box design. 65mm wide!!! I'll be putting the 26x2.7" kenda tires on it. Its gonna be badass. I'm getting it with NO DISH, but i guess with JRH's spokes, i'll be able to get about 1/4" if needed. The 5404 has no disc currently on it since its too god damn wide. The calipers won't fit anywhere around it...even with kiwi's dropouts. I'll probably have to mill out the caliper mount to do a custom fit.

I'm gonna wait until my hubzilla and my new 150mm swingarm comes in. The swingarm is brand new and is originally for 05 and above dh teams (metallic blue, which looks wicked awesome) but it'll fit my 03 dh comp. So...now i can try and fit my 5404 and my hubzilla COMFORTABLY into my dropouts and hopefully not have to mess around with custom mounts for disc calipers. I cant frickin wait for both to get to my door.

Also, I"m gonna put together a enclosure for the lipos. I'm using 1/4" and 3/8" plywood for the enclosure, which is gonna cover up the tubes. I'm pretty much gonna use the stealth bomber as my reference. Not sure about the width though. Right now, i have them mounted into the triangle in the falcon ev bag i split (to cover the tubes). They're only two lipos wide. But i'm definitely leaning towards a future 3p setup...which means i'll have to mount them perpendicular to the fame...super wide....thoughts? im leaning towards making the enclosure to compensate for the future change..

Gotta go study....this bike is just tempting me in all sorts of ways....

Where did source the new 150mm swingarm from ? I've got an 03 Team with a cromotor in transit but the current 135mm space, with kiwi's dropouts is looking a little tight..... The 150mm sounds perfect.

Seconded on where you sourced your 150mm swingarm from!

stevetooke said:

Where did source the new 150mm swingarm from ? I've got an 03 Team with a cromotor in transit but the current 135mm space, with kiwi's dropouts is looking a little tight..... The 150mm sounds perfect.

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I have this issue, I have to pry my swing arm apart atleast 3-4mm.

My axel nuts arn't on 100% of the way either.... sketchy? Most defiantly.

But I don't think a wider swing arm is going to help with that. The cromotor axel is just not long enough, maybe this new batch comes with a larger axel.

I got the swingarm through a bike shop. I haven't put it on yet, but i'm waiting for my cromotor, which is being laced into a 26" large marge rim with kenda 2.7" tires. The swingarm is for a 05 dh team, but it'll fit my 03 dh comp. I measured up the shock mounts and its EXACTLY the same. The only thing i need to do to confirm this is to actually do the transplant. The 05 swingarm has the 150mm dropouts and doesn't have that weird offset on the right swingarm that the 135 swingarm has. My 5404 is frickin huge and its really stretching out my dropouts. But with the 150, there's plenty of room. In fact, i'll be much more comfortable playing around with spacers to center the wheel. Should be a lot easier. Im not to fond of posting pictures...since i need to resize everything...but i did take one of the swingarm. its BEAUTIFUL. I don't even want to put it on. The metallic blue just looks wicked awesome.

Did a 10 mile trip on a trail in the area...averaging about 30 mph...peaking out at 42mph... and i used up 7ah. I was pulling 5kw max...probably 2-3kw continuous. The 5404 was barely warm. ALL USING A 12fet SENSORLESS!!! i reprogrammed it to 50a main/ 100a phase to be conservative...Its a beast. I set of a speed camera too. hahahaha!!!

Currently, i have a 16t bmx freewheel from sunlite...i'm using the coveted xtr to provide chain tension. I ripped the housing after doing a wheelie and flipping the bike. I REALLY NEED TO GET A REAR DISC MOUNT GOING BEFORE I CONTINUE TO THE SHIT I DO ON THIS BIKE. I'll pay more attention when i get the cromotor. But i did get the derailleur housing replaced...since i ripped it off after wiping. I also ripped some of the hall wires and the phase...still works though!!!



Anyone got a source for good tutorials on how to lengthen wire with good soldering technique?





AGAIN, GORGEOUS COLOR. I just need some red on the bike....then it'll scream AMERICA.





The particular angle this picture captures....is IMPOSSIBLE to find. I spent an hour looking for a picture so i could see what shape the arms took. FINALLY. I had to get one myself in order to see. The 135mm has the left arm almost parallel to the frame tubes, while the right arm deviates from the centerline of the bike about 10-15 degree, which makes a weird offset. Whats worse...the left arm is actually a little stiffer than the right because of it's geometry. SO when you try to jam a wide ass motor into it with spacers..you end up just pushing out the RIGHT arm only...which sucks.

I WANT MY CROMOTOR!!!!!! and my 18 fet controller from lyen....if you're reading this lyen....help me go faster by beefing up my controller even more. Passing cars is addicting.

moonshine said:

Anyone got a source for good tutorials on how to lengthen wire with good soldering technique?

Click to expand...

i havent spent hours looking online but i can tell you what i know.

When soldering always heat the item to be solder first then apply the solder to the item. It helps it flow better. Try not to use to much solder, use just enough. You dont need big mounds of it.

In terms of joinging the wires i would suggest the following. Always try to make sure that the conductors of the wires are actually touching each other as much as possible. The larger the contact area between the conductors the less resistance the joint will have. there is probable a couple of way you can do it but twist tehm together and then solder after you have them twisted together. Then cover it with heat shrink tubing. You can also wrap the joint in a thin copper strip after you twist them together and crimp the copper down tightly and then solder that all together, then heat shrink it.

Avoind using solder as a connector as the conductivity of solder is crap compared to wire on wire so in these case remove all the solder or cut and redo the joint to make sure you get metal to metal contact.

Big items need lots of power to get the correct amount of heat to make a nice joint. So make sure that you have a decent wattage iron.

Thanks man. That's what i've been seeing in all the videos i've come across. Although...my connections may have a little too much solder on them... I fray wires out and then mesh them together so they're all interconnected. Then i lay some solder. What makes me nervous is...10ga wire takes a lot of heat to get to the point where i can lay solder...is that bad?

ALSO...can someone enlighten me on regen settings before i do some damage? I'm reading about shunts from the CA? LVC? settings that i don't really know what do...I just sort of copy what other people have been using for the 12fet and the 18fet. Is there a good way to calculate on this stuff? I charge my lipos up to 4.15v...and i have yet to go below 3.7v. Im currently running 24s2p CA reads 99.9v right off the charger.

moonshine said:

What makes me nervous is...10ga wire takes a lot of heat to get to the point where i can lay solder...is that bad?

Click to expand...

Nope it is perfectly reasonable. Sounds like youve got it under control by the sounds of it!

Sorry i have no idea about the settings in controllers. Have left all that to hyena here

Scruff

You'll want to start with regen setting at none, which is actually low of 3 different settings. Here's a screenshot of the settings I've been running for over a week, and the peak regen current I'm getting is over 70A. I hope this helps. Oh, and don't even think of trying those kinds of current settings. Neither your controller nor your motor is likely to handle them.

Moonshine:
Where did you get the center drilled 36 hole large marge? I'm having issues finding them online.
Holmes is making my spokes and my motor is going to be here on thursday...

NM, I finally found a note about it being the Xc version.

I've no IDEA why they make a DH that's frickin 32 hole, but an XC that's 36 hole and lightened. Goofy.

Wtf. I'm at a point were I more things are breaking than working. I can't seem to get any of Lyens 18 fet controllers to work for me. I'm using Icecube's lipo harness running 24s4p. First controller was the 18fet 4115 that was blown using 24s2p. Anne of the phase gets or whatever died. Sent that for repair. The 12 fet sensorless has worked with no problems whatsoever. Sometimes giving me busters if 5kw. It was programmed for 50main/100phase. So now I finally get my 18fet4115 back. But in the meantime general consensus says that a 4110 controller would be much much better for a cromotor laced into a 26" wheel. So I fork over the cash for one of Lyens 18fet 4110 controllers. This is where shit gets real.

The moment I plug in my 18fet 4110 I here a pop inside the controller. Fml. I'll post picture. But blown fets. Wtf wtf wtf. Then I said whatevs I have another 18fet, the 4115. I plug that one in and get about 1 mile down the street doing about 2kw and one of the phases dies. Wtf wtf wtf. Back to my 12fet sensoreless which works fine. My questions....

1.WTF controllers?!!
2.are there any controllers out there, Kelly, or methods controllers that won't frickin fail on me?!!
3.has anyone else had this problem with lyen's 18fet?
4.why is the 12 fet sensorless ALWAYS working an never failing me?!!
5.am I doomed to sensorless??!!
6.what is the actual difference in performance between sensors and sensorless?
7.im about one more failure away from parti out my dh comp and everything ev related. This has soaked up so
Much of my time. I just want a reliable system. What am doing wrong?!!!

Any help would be appreciated. I'll post pics of my harness, bike and controllers.

i've never had a controller pop like that, unless it was loose and shorted! pic of your beast:

i just noticed how your forks extend your wheel base. i like that.

you plugged a 100V battery into a controller with irfb4110s? did any of your previous controllers have the ability to withstand the 125V of the 30s lipo? no precharging resistor to reduce the inductive spike impact on the mosfets?

GC, i totally owe you dinner one of these nights...you've been a real help. She does look pretty damn good...i mean...as good as you can get with bathtub vinyl wrap. I justneed to resolve this controller issue. 2 18fet controllers in 2 days. One i didn't even get to use..and the other lasting me a mile. WTF. If someone can just answer some of the questions i posted...it would be greatly greatly appreciated.

I definitely have a precharge setup. So my harness connects my 24s4p packs into a single battery plug with a precharge connector (female). The other end has the other precharge connector (male) and the red/black power cables going into the controller. I have been using 24s consistently with all my controllers....even the 12fet. So...in other words...i used the EXACT same setup with my 18fet 4110, 4115, and 12fet 4110. Results:

Same setup...24s4p (99.8v off the charger):
1. 18fet 4110=blew up fets the moment it was connected
2. 18fet 4115=blue phase died at about 1mile doing 2kw
3. 12fet 4110=STILL KICKIN....even hits 5kw and is ABSOLUTELY FINE.

i'll post pics...

It seems to me that if it works OK with a sensorless controller but doesn't work with a sensored one AND you've screwed up your controller to motor wireing doing wheelies , your hall sensor wires or the halls them self are screwed up. Lyen sells a tester for checking them, or you can use a multimeter.

Good luck...

i totally wrote a long post on my phone and submitted it, but it's not here. wtf?

you'd said the motor was in reverse the first time you hooked it up. so obviously you found a setting to go forward, but i wonder if it was the RIGHT one. i've heard you can do false positive settings - ones that work but that are totally anemic. did you research proper lyen controller -> cromotor hall/phase wire combos?

that would explain why it runs sensorless and not sensored.

actually....i hooked up my 18fet 4115 at it worked fine....I'm not quite sure how you rate anemic... I went down conn. ave at a pretty good speed, but because i was nervous that it would shit the bed on me, i packed my 12fet sensorless in my backpack. the 4115 brokedown on me at around 2kw continuous for about 1/4 to 1/2 a mile. Lyen will be repairing both. phenomenal customer service

So, have you solved the issues yet?