Fizzit's RC freeride build log - now with videos

Funnily enough, my friend has decided to mount the motor outside of the frame :? He says it will make it so he doesn't have to have an idler sprocket or have a chain "shroud". I'm not sure why he'd need those things but it is his bike so he can do what he wants! :lol:

On friday I was riding back from playing some tennis and going about 35mph up the hill of death (it's not a very steep hill but my bike has suffered multiple failures going up it :roll: ) when I decided to shift down a gear so I could rev the motor a little higher. Something didn't like that and my back wheel locked up and I fishtailed for about 100ft and made a long skid mark going off the road. It's funny because I had just been thinking about how long my bike had gone without a significant failure.

When I got off the bike I found that my derailleur hanger had snapped in half and the derailleur was now located in the spokes of my wheel, with the chain wrapped between the spokes and the cassette, and going through the destroyed derailleur and then around the cranks. I am not sure why this happened. There should be no load on the rear derailleur. Maybe my chain was very stretched and it slipped? I hadn't looked at it in a while, just lubed it occasionaly. Luckily my derailleur hanger is removable and is compatible with the common kona "h" hanger so my frame is still usable. My derailleur was pretty worn out and this may have had something to do with it, it is always possible that the chain locked up in the derailleur and tore it off. I shall purchase a new derailleur, konda derailleur hanger, and chain, and attempt to replace the two spokes in my back wheel with care, because that is my nice wheel (the front one sucks).

Also I have noticed that my battery pack is going a little out of balance. I paralleled all the cells but when it's charged, there's still about .05v difference between the highest and lowest - like highest is 4.17 and lowest is 4.12. My father has a large number of Cellog-8s for the electric car and I've been looking at the cells with one of them, they are very handy.

I think I will get one of these
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or one of these
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to take care of my balancing woes once my bike is in mechanical working order.
 
I fixed my bike! A new derailleur, front chain sprocket, chain, and derailleur hanger got it back in working order. For one day, yesterday. Then today I was riding to work and the brand new chain fell off of the brand new front sprocket and got all bent up when I shifted gears. Luckily, I now have a car for backup! Except this weekend, it started leaking a ton of oil because I apparently did something wrong when I replaced the oil pan gasket. So my bike and car are out of comission due to my failed repair attempts. And I gave my transit pass to my sister. And I gave my road bike to my friend. I guess I will walk to school for a couple of days. But for the bike, I think I just need a chain guide for the front sprocket to keep the chain from derailing when I shift gears in the rear. I don't understand why it does this but hopefully it's fixed with a guide for the chain.
 
If the chain isn't within a narrow range of angle when it enters across the top of the front chainring, it'll derail, because the edge of the chain begins to catch on teh teeth..

Just having a front derailer on there and locked to the position over the chainring will stop this--it is what I had to do to CrazyBike2 when I still had a rear shifter and multiple speeds on it, for the same reason.
 
Oh, also, your chain may be too long, if the rear derailer isnt' taking up the slack enough to keep it under tension, which will also help it stay on the front.

Check how many links your old chain had (assuming it stayed on better) and set your new one to the same number, assuming you use the same size sprockets/chainring.
 
The derailleur I had didn't fit! So I decided to make a real chain guide. It took me a while :lol:
I tested it for 10-15 miles and it works fine.

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But I decided to ride to school today in the rain! I was more cautious and decided to test this new modification a lot before I used it to commute, because I remember all the times that I have modified my bike and not tested it properly, and it's died and left me stranded.

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I pulled over because I noticed a strange grinding/clicking noise/feel coming from the drivetrain. I checked the new tensioner and assumed that it was knocking around because it was wet. Then I decided to ride a little to see if it went away, and the belt broke! Hooray. I guess I should have learned by now that I should never keep riding when the drive train is making odd noises.

I'm considering three possibilities.
1: The belt broke because it got wet and slipped (it was raining when I rode)
2: Belt tension was lost, so the belt broke.
3: There is some other reason that I will never figure out.

Does anyone have any idea what the cause could be? I guess I'll build a belt cover while I wait for my new belt to arrive, and make sure to periodically keep it tight. :|
 
Could break because it's too loose, and get's jerked on at each motor startup.

Could break if it's too tight, for the same reason.

Could break if it's not wide/thick enough for the torque being put thru it, where fibers are torn a little each time from belt stretch, eventually parting enough of them to just rip thru the rest at the next burst of power.

Could be a rock or something gets under the belt on the pulley, stretching it at that point, causing the above to start. Weakens it and then the above process continues.
 
Yeah the belt was definitely too loose. Thanks Amberwolf, your info was helpful.

I just got the new belt and put it on. Tensioning it was hard but I think I got it right. I will have to check it more often than I did before. Unfortunately then I rode my bike in the alley and tried to do wheelies. It turned out that I left it in third gear. I realized that and went to shift down but it was too late. The controller wouldn't start and then I unplugged it and walked it into the garage. then i plugged it back in and there was a big pop from the controller and the bullet connectors welded together and then I tried to tear out all the battery wires before there was a fire. Luckily there wasn't a fire.
But now I am out $155 and i have to wait 6 weeks for a replacement ESC or I am out $215 for a new one and I have to wait a week. I wish that I had checked what gear I was in before trying to do wheelies :(
Maybe castle will take pity on me because there is a recall on my controller. I don't think I will be that lucky though.

I hope I didn't mess up any batteries. I know it drew a lot of amps because my light turned off when I tried to start the motor. That would really put the frosting on this shit cake.
 
welcome to the blowm castle club :lol:
how mwny miles did you make on the original ?
 
Thud said:
welcome to the blowm castle club :lol:
how mwny miles did you make on the original ?

Thanks Thud :p :(
I wouldn't feel so bad if I weren't already a member of the club :oops:
I got like 5 miles on my first one. On the replacement one, I think more than 1500. Just took a couple of hard starts in third gear to kill it.
 
Well, I really want to get back on my bike soon and simultaneously save as much money as possible, so I guess I'll send the controller to castle for $155.
It's a bummer that they seem to have raised the repair price by $20 for exactly the same controller, that is like 5 years old now. The only difference is that it has a different shaped piece of plastic on the end and it's less likely to explode without warning :roll:
 
While I wait for my controller, I have decided to rewind my Turnigy 80-85 motor. I was not sure whether this recent incident with the controller had damaged the motor, and I had noticed for a long time that one of the phases seemed to be shorted to the stator. I confirmed that it was shorted to stator this weekend, and I don't want to take any chances with my new controller. I lack any of the skills to figure out how to wind it, so I contacted the RC guru Thud to help me out. He has told me to wind 6-turn Wye with two strands of 15 gauge wire in parallel. I believe this will be virtually identical to the performance of the stock motor, and be easier on the controller.

Here are some pictures of dissassembly of the motor.

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There was a lot of struggling involved with removing all the epoxy-soaked wire, but I didn't take any pictures of that :D

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As you can see, the outside sheets of the stator (especially those close to the motor face) have rusted from the bike being ridden and left outside in the rain for long hours during the day. I assume that those closest to the motor face were more rusted because that is where the wheel sprays most of the water from the road when the mud guard is off.

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I also recently got a speedict ebike, so I will have more than just speed displaying on the handlebars now :D
I have no idea what kind of peak current my bike pulls, so I will have to be careful with the throttle until I can determine whether the speedict will be OK.
 
fizzit said:
I also recently got a speedict ebike, so I will have more than just speed displaying on the handlebars now :D
I have no idea what kind of peak current my bike pulls, so I will have to be careful with the throttle until I can determine whether the speedict will be OK.

hey, from the label i can tell it is not ebike, it is version 2 either mercury or mars, do you want to use it just for display or log data ?
you use rc speed controller for your project ?
 
speedict said:
hey, from the label i can tell it is not ebike, it is version 2 either mercury or mars, do you want to use it just for display or log data ?
you use rc speed controller for your project ?

Whoops, that was my mistake. I meant speedict mars. I'm using a Castle RC controller.
 
looks like your magnets and laminations already got corrosion :? I want to protect mine from that using an air filter and finish. Maybe you could add some protective finish to the magnets before reassembly? I had some on my first 80100 build, too, but it melted and fell off soon. Any idea what finish we could use to do better? Maybe use 2-component adhesive this time?

Edit: I found that wheel paint is a great finish for hub motors. It even takes road stone :shock: But it does not take the temps we are using :(

Edit2: The only thing I've found is engine paint, maybe this is what we wanna use :?

Edit3: Found out that normal 2-component finish last up to 180°C so we are fine using it :)
 

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fizzit said:
speedict said:
hey, from the label i can tell it is not ebike, it is version 2 either mercury or mars, do you want to use it just for display or log data ?
you use rc speed controller for your project ?

Whoops, that was my mistake. I meant speedict mars. I'm using a Castle RC controller.

how can you control your castle ?
 
speedict said:
how can you control your castle ?

I'm just using a little throttle signal converter that I made with a picaxe 08M microcontroller.

crossbreak said:
looks like your magnets and laminations already got corrosion :? I want to protect mine from that using an air filter and finish. Maybe you could add some protective finish to the magnets before reassembly? I had some on my first 80100 build, too, but it melted and fell off soon. Any idea what finish we could use to do better? Maybe use 2-component adhesive this time?

Yeah my laminations definitely got corrosion. I am not sure about the magnets though. Everything on the inside of the can is coated with a thick layer of dust and small particles, so it's hard to see what is there. I wiped a little dust off of one of the magnets and it doesn't look too bad.

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Where do you plan on putting in the air filter? That sounds like a great way to keep dust and rocks out of the motor. Some of the magnets are definitely chipped from little pebbles that entered the can.

I used the teeny wire wheel attachment for my dremel to get rid of most of the rust, and then coated the rest with Loctite rust converter. The stuff is supposed to create a coating that's good for up to 250 F, so hopefully it lasts!

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fizzit said:
speedict said:
Where do you plan on putting in the air filter? That sounds like a great way to keep dust and rocks out of the motor. Some of the magnets are definitely chipped from little pebbles that entered the can.

The air filter would be placed in front of an 80mm PC Fan, coaxial to the motor. Sad that on your 80-85 this would get to wide to fit the bike. I'm still in design phase. ATM i'm thinking of enclosing the whole motor, like CPM90 outrunner motors are made. Conducting heat to the housing and just cool the housing, then there's no need for any air filters. Conducting heat to the housing will only work good on short stator motors like the 80cc rotomax (110mm motor) that I have ordered.

I would like to know how many mile this motor has on the clock. Maybe you don't need an air filter, just coat your rotor and stator?
 
Sorry I took so long to reply, crossbreak. This motor has about 1500 miles on it, I believe. I hope it lasts a few thousand more miles after the work I just put into it!

With instructions from Thud, wire from eBay, and nomex paper from Bigmoose, I successfully rewound my motor. It's been about 0 to -3 degrees celcius in my garage in the evening so only I wound one phase per day this week before my hands got too cold.

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Here's my first shot at the first phase :oops:
Then, thud educated me about using tools and I stopped winding like a caveman.

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The motor completed:

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It looks like I glopped chewing gum all over the winding terminations, but in fact it is Sugru, which is sort of a moldable silicone epoxy. I had a color assortment and yellow was the color that I figured I would use the least :p It's supposed to be good up to 180 Centigrade, but hopefully I never find out it's temperature limits.

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Today I soldered together my speedict, new castle creations controller, and the caps. I also added a 1-ohm no spark resistor, because I found out that Castle says a resistor of 1 ohm or under is safe. Unfortunately the new ICE2 HV160 that I received is different from my previous ICE HV controller; there is a plastic frame around the controller, which thermally insulates the heat sink from what ever it is bolted to :?

My controller was staying very cool before, because it was bolted to the side of my aluminum battery box. I will have to watch the controller temperature when I test the bike.
 
Well, in the last week I have put in a lot of hours getting my bike ready to ride, and I feel that once it's rolling it's going to be more reliable than ever.
I rode the bike up and down my alley today and noticed this unfortunate clicking noise:

[youtube]rEJpHUEdbXg[/youtube]

The clicking doesn't happen when the belt isn't tight, and it definitely lines up with the rotation of the larger belt sprocket that's mounted on the jackshaft. I can't figure out where it's coming from, but I have a feeling that it might be the jackshaft bearings. However, when I took off the belt and chain on the jackshaft and rotated it, it seemed to rotate pretty smoothly and without any grinding or clicking. Anyone have any ideas? Could it be the new HTD belt wearing in? I want to just ignore it, but I don't think that's a good idea if the bearings are worn out :?

I'm also having some trouble getting the belt at the correct tension. I'm worried that if it's too lose, it'll slip and break like it did last time. However, if it's too tight, it could wear out the bearings and wear out fast... I have to think of some way to accurately tension it without guessing.
 
Tht sure don't sound right....recheck all the bearings in the system & find the offender. You'll save yourself a bigger headache later.
You will be super jammed up if it binds up, overloads yor re-wound motor & takes out the speed controller.
That's a worst case scenario....but since you've just been jinxed :shock: it will be 100x more likely.....sorry.
T
 
Thud said:
Tht sure don't sound right....recheck all the bearings in the system & find the offender. You'll save yourself a bigger headache later.
You will be super jammed up if it binds up, overloads yor re-wound motor & takes out the speed controller.
That's a worst case scenario....but since you've just been jinxed :shock: it will be 100x more likely.....sorry.
T

Yeah, I guess it's gotta be one of those cheap spherical flange bearings from Mcmaster worn out again. Thanks for the tip, Thud. I don't know if I already told you, but the rewound motor runs really well. No shorts anywhere on the stator. I can't wait to try out the cooling fan.

Bearings are strange. The bearing in my Turnigy motor turned very roughly when it was mounted in the motor, but when I took it out it felt nearly as smooth as the brand new replacement that I had :eek:
 
So I replaced the dead bearings last week, and set out to test my bike this afternoon. It rode perfectly for about half a mile, when the drivetrain started clicking again! I'm near certain that it's the fault of the same bearing as last time, which turned out to be the bearing on the motor shaft nearest to the pully. I had the belt tension much lower this time and the bearing lasted longer than last time, but the motor is now making the same grinding sound at low RPM and no load as it was when the previous bearing was worn out. It's amazing that the original motor bearing lasted 2k miles (150 with belt) and never got this bad, while the stainless steel VXB bearings can barely make it a few minutes.

I've learned a lesson from this: If you are looking for bearings for your Turnigy motor, don't get the cheapest ones available :oops:
 
The cheapest vxb bearings are still better than the stock ones. Really!

Seriously, if your getting that short a life there is something going on.

What is your technique for driving in the new bearings?.
You should use a driver that will rest on the outer race (like a socket) refrain from getting pressure on the inner race.
Put your bearings in the freezer for an hour before installation......ideally you would heat the alumni bearing tube & they would drop right in....but with a glued stator & windings, I'll refrain from telling you to throw it in the oven at 300f :wink:

Always something.
Keep going....you are almost there.
 
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