Viewing post history: Re: Converting a hubmotor to a middrivemotor

This page shows all versions of the post, starting with the most current version.
Viewing post history
This page shows all versions of the post, starting with the most current version.

Current post: Re: Converting a hubmotor to a middrivemotor

Postby crossbreak » Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:28 pm

This Post will be updated frequently to summarize progress


This is the official conversion:


If one removes the key that fixes the stator on the axle, the axle can rotate and there is no need for any additional bearings. After you removed the key and screwed the stator to the hub-housing with an alloy-piece, the stator is fixed on the hub-housing, while the axle is free to rotate. The axle will turn in reverse direction after conversion.

remove_key.jpg
remove_key.jpg (64.84 KiB) Viewed 25969 times

explosion_2.png
explosion_2.png (159.48 KiB) Viewed 25969 times

Pic that shows the turning directions from page 14
Image

This alloy-piece is called heat-bridge or thermal bridge since it conducts the waste-heat from the stator to the hub, which leads to much increased cooling of the stator. This piece fixes the stator in the hub, prevents it from turning. The screw holes must be machined very concentric, so the stator can not offset from the center. There must be a center alignment, we use the screws for that. Since we ca not use a The pic below shows the stator of a bafang SWXB, which was relatively simple to convert, due it's simple design. This really is a very powerful motor, sadly it's one of the loadest hubmotors on the market, due it's oversized and durable gears. Still I can recommend it for people who want only 1kW. It's still more quiet than the RC middrives I have seen.

my first Heatbridge /Thermal Bridge:
Image
Image

The axle still slips on the stator bore, so there shall be some space between these two components. We can make this space by by polishing/filing-down the surface of the shaft, till the axle can rotate without friction. You can also drill the stator bore to a greater diameter, but make sure your heatbridge centers the stator perfectly before you do this.

After a first test assembly to see if it all moves right, the axle has to shimmed right to axially align both rotor and planet carrier. There can be friction and noise which are induced by bad alignment. If you do this conversion, you should buy some shims (12 and 15mm inn dia) for alignment. Sry I've got no pics of the shims.

You may now add an additional Heatsink:
This pic from page 10 show how a heatsink for the stator could look like. thx bob for the pic. there are more if you look at page 10. This way the available continuous output power must be more than 4 of times the original (ie the MAC can output about 1800Watts, a small 250W bafang can do almost 1000W continuously):

Image

This conversion also enables the option to use both ends of the shaft. This way it can be used as a Jackshaft without using a freewheel crank[/color] Explanation what this does can be found in the wiki: http://endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/E ... figuration .

spinningmagnets writes a step-by-step how-to on page 19: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=45245&start=450#p719603 (work in progress, almost complete)

Drive system with dual-freewheel Jackshaft -> much better drive-ability and no more need for crappy freewheel cranks
Wiki article: http://endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/E ... eel_Config:
Image
Image

Speeding up the Motor to get more continuous power

The less magnets a motor has and the thinner the laminations are, the faster we can spin it to gain a good efficiency an thus continous output power. power loss/ heat /inefficiency (=all the same) limits output power in the first place. On the other side, more poles means more torque for a motor of the same size.

Dues these facts, we can compare middrive motors (there is a much better and detailed list by miles i can't find ATM):
The Bafang BPM has less magnet poles (16) and can be speeded up further than the MAC (32poles, it has equal 0.5mm laminations, the BMC and upgrade MAC have 0.3mm). The BMC/upgrade MAC are a good choise for upspeeding, but these are more expensive. The Bafang BPM has a prospective advantage in Power/Weight ratio over the old MAC due this (edit: in fact they are equal), the BPM and the BMC should be about equal (edit: The upgrade MAC/BMC are supperior). Compared to RC motors like the CA120-70 and other low induction motors gain a even higher power/weight ratio - since they are available with 0.2mm thin laminations, just for comparison. BUT low induction motors have special requirements and often fry controllers, if not treated right (which is really hard as I had to experience). Still RC motors can be a good choice for a middrive if driven fast, which means a high reduction ratio.

Gearing a middrive: http://endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/G ... _mid_motor

List of people here who try this conversion:

in order of appearance
bob
with pics of his mounted heatsink here: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=45245&start=135#p672235

mr.electric
pics starting here: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=45245&start=135#p671774

studebiker
with some issues and useful explanation about disassembly here viewtopic.php?f=28&t=45245&start=210#p678511

whiplash
his new build thread: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=46568&p=681062#p680899

spinningmagnets
who shows us how it works using a MAC motor viewtopic.php?f=28&t=45245&start=450#p719603 (work in progress) and viewtopic.php?f=28&t=51603

waynebergman
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/vi ... 67#p730659


Sprocket Adapters
I used 18T 9-speed motor sprocket from an old cassette, it just got worn out very quick. IGH sprockets and chainwheels are much more durable and fit the purpose. Next step is an all left hand drive that uses custom sprocket adapter to make common freewheels and sprockets fit the flatened double-D 12mm shaft of the humbotor. I'll start to sell these at cost soon... should look like this in the end:
Image
Image
Image

Here you can get such an adapter: viewtopic.php?f=31&t=52572


Link to the geared Hubmotors wiki page: http://endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/E ... _Hubmotors


Steps you need for converting the SWXB, SWXH, SWXU and Goldenmotor MBG

1. glue the stator to the side cover with epoxy putty, spray a bit of WD40 on the stator carrier, so that the putty does not glue to it, but takes a perfect copy of the shape.
Image

2. dirll holes for 6 holes with a 3.2mm drill. Then M4 cut threads
Image
Image

ONLY IF everything fits fine, proceed:
3. Remove the key, polish/enlarge the stator holder center hole using a file
download/file.php?id=101495

4. Drill a hole for the cables, pull them through the hole
Image

5. screw the stator holder to the side cover, put in the shaft and rotor, connect a controller+battery+throttle, let it spin....check if anything rubs
[sorry no pic]


6. assemble the hole unit, test again if if anything rubs...let it run for a few minutes and check nothing gets hot due rubbing.

7. Make a mount for your bike, drill holes into the hub housing to fasten it on your mount.
Edited by crossbreak on Tue Jan 27, 2015 7:58 am.
User avatar
crossbreak
100 MW
100 MW
 
Posts: 2807
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 11:20 am
Location: Germany

Revision 31: Re: Converting a hubmotor to a middrivemotor

Postby crossbreak » Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:28 pm

This Post will be updated frequently to summarize progress


This is the official conversion:


If one removes the key that fixes the stator on the axle, the axle can rotate and there is no need for any additional bearings. After you removed the key and screwed the stator to the hub-housing with an alloy-piece, the stator is fixed on the hub-housing, while the axle is free to rotate. The axle will turn in reverse direction after conversion.

remove_key.jpg

explosion_2.png

Pic that shows the turning directions from page 14
Image

This alloy-piece is called heat-bridge or thermal bridge since it conducts the waste-heat from the stator to the hub, which leads to much increased cooling of the stator. This piece fixes the stator in the hub, prevents it from turning. The screw holes must be machined very concentric, so the stator can not offset from the center. There must be a center alignment, we use the screws for that. Since we ca not use a The pic below shows the stator of a bafang SWXB, which was relatively simple to convert, due it's simple design. This really is a very powerful motor, sadly it's one of the loadest hubmotors on the market, due it's oversized and durable gears. Still I can recommend it for people who want only 1kW. It's still more quiet than the RC middrives I have seen.

my first Heatbridge /Thermal Bridge:
Image
Image

The axle still slips on the stator bore, so there shall be some space between these two components. We can make this space by by polishing/filing-down the surface of the shaft, till the axle can rotate without friction. You can also drill the stator bore to a greater diameter, but make sure your heatbridge centers the stator perfectly before you do this.

After a first test assembly to see if it all moves right, the axle has to shimmed right to axially align both rotor and planet carrier. There can be friction and noise which are induced by bad alignment. If you do this conversion, you should buy some shims (12 and 15mm inn dia) for alignment. Sry I've got no pics of the shims.

You may now add an additional Heatsink:
This pic from page 10 show how a heatsink for the stator could look like. thx bob for the pic. there are more if you look at page 10. This way the available continuous output power must be more than 4 of times the original (ie the MAC can output about 1800Watts, a small 250W bafang can do almost 1000W continuously):

Image

This conversion also enables the option to use both ends of the shaft. This way it can be used as a Jackshaft without using a freewheel crank[/color] Explanation what this does can be found in the wiki: http://endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/E ... figuration .

spinningmagnets writes a step-by-step how-to on page 19: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=45245&start=450#p719603 (work in progress, almost complete)

Drive system with dual-freewheel Jackshaft -> much better drive-ability and no more need for crappy freewheel cranks
Wiki article: http://endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/E ... eel_Config:
Image
Image

Speeding up the Motor to get more continuous power

The less magnets a motor has and the thinner the laminations are, the faster we can spin it to gain a good efficiency an thus continous output power. power loss/ heat /inefficiency (=all the same) limits output power in the first place. On the other side, more poles means more torque for a motor of the same size.

Dues these facts, we can compare middrive motors (there is a much better and detailed list by miles i can't find ATM):
The Bafang BPM has less magnet poles (16) and can be speeded up further than the MAC (32poles, it has equal 0.5mm laminations, the BMC has 0.33mm). The BMC is there for a good choise for upspeeding, but it's more expensive. The Bafang BPM has a prospective advantage in Power/Weight ratio over the MAC due this, the BPM and the BMC should be about equal. Compared to RC motors like the CA120-70 and other low induction motors gain a even higher power/weight ratio - since they are available with 0.2mm thin laminations, just for comparison. BUT low induction motors have special requirements and often fry controllers, if not treated right (which is really hard as I had to experience). Still RC motors can be a good choice for a middrive if driven fast, which means a high reduction ratio.
In the end, the Bafang BPM seems to be the Jackpot. It's cheap, large and has great over-speeding/overvolting capabilities since it has only 16 poles.

Gearing a middrive: http://endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/G ... _mid_motor

List of people here who try this conversion:

in order of appearance
bob
with pics of his mounted heatsink here: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=45245&start=135#p672235

mr.electric
pics starting here: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=45245&start=135#p671774

studebiker
with some issues and useful explanation about disassembly here viewtopic.php?f=28&t=45245&start=210#p678511

whiplash
his new build thread: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=46568&p=681062#p680899

spinningmagnets
who shows us how it works using a MAC motor viewtopic.php?f=28&t=45245&start=450#p719603 (work in progress) and viewtopic.php?f=28&t=51603

waynebergman
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/vi ... 67#p730659


Sprocket Adapters
I used 18T 9-speed motor sprocket from an old cassette, it just got worn out very quick. IGH sprockets and chainwheels are much more durable and fit the purpose. Next step is an all left hand drive that uses custom sprocket adapter to make common freewheels and sprockets fit the flatened double-D 12mm shaft of the humbotor. I'll start to sell these at cost soon... should look like this in the end:
Image
Image
Image

Here you can get such an adapter: viewtopic.php?f=31&t=52572


Link to the geared Hubmotors wiki page: http://endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/E ... _Hubmotors


Steps you need for converting the SWXB, SWXH, SWXU and Goldenmotor MBG

1. glue the stator to the side cover with epoxy putty, spray a bit of WD40 on the stator carrier, so that the putty does not glue to it, but takes a perfect copy of the shape.
Image

2. dirll holes for 6 holes with a 3.2mm drill. Then M4 cut threads
Image
Image

ONLY IF everything fits fine, proceed:
3. Remove the key, polish/enlarge the stator holder center hole using a file
download/file.php?id=101495

4. Drill a hole for the cables, pull them through the hole
Image

5. screw the stator holder to the side cover, put in the shaft and rotor, connect a controller+battery+throttle, let it spin....check if anything rubs
[sorry no pic]


6. assemble the hole unit, test again if if anything rubs...let it run for a few minutes and check nothing gets hot due rubbing.

7. Make a mount for your bike, drill holes into the hub housing to fasten it on your mount.
Edited by crossbreak on Mon Apr 07, 2014 1:37 am.
User avatar
crossbreak
100 MW
100 MW
 
Posts: 2807
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 11:20 am
Location: Germany

Revision 30: Re: Converting a hubmotor to a middrivemotor

Postby crossbreak » Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:28 pm

This Post will be updated frequently to summarize progress


This is the official conversion:


If one removes the key that fixes the stator on the axle, the axle can rotate and there is no need for any additional bearings. After you removed the key and screwed the stator to the hub-housing with an alloy-piece, the stator is fixed on the hub-housing, while the axle is free to rotate. The axle will in reverse direction after conversion.

remove_key.jpg

explosion_2.png

Pic that shows the turning directions from page 14
Image

This alloy-piece is called heat-bridge or thermal bridge since it conducts the waste-heat from the stator to the hub, which leads to much increased cooling of the stator. This piece fixes the stator in the hub, prevents it from turning. The screw holes must be machined very concentric, so the stator can not offset from the center. There must be a center alignment, we use the screws for that. Since we ca not use a The pic below shows the stator of a bafang SWXB, which was relatively simple to convert, due it's simple design. This really is a very powerful motor, sadly it's one of the loadest hubmotors on the market, due it's oversized and durable gears. Still I can recommend it for people who want only 1kW. It's still more quiet than the RC middrives I have seen.

my first Heatbridge /Thermal Bridge:
Image
Image

The axle still slips on the stator bore, so there shall be some space between these two components. We can make this space by by polishing/filing-down the surface of the shaft, till the axle can rotate without friction. You can also drill the stator bore to a greater diameter, but make sure your heatbridge centers the stator perfectly before you do this.

After a first test assembly to see if it all moves right, the axle has to shimmed right to axially align both rotor and planet carrier. There can be friction and noise which are induced by bad alignment. If you do this conversion, you should buy some shims (12 and 15mm inn dia) for alignment. Sry I've got no pics of the shims.

You may now add an additional Heatsink:
This pic from page 10 show how a heatsink for the stator could look like. thx bob for the pic. there are more if you look at page 10. This way the available continuous output power must be more than 4 of times the original (ie the MAC can output about 1800Watts, a small 250W bafang can do almost 1000W continuously):

Image

This conversion also enables the option to use both ends of the shaft. This way it can be used as a Jackshaft without using a freewheel crank[/color] Explanation what this does can be found in the wiki: http://endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/E ... figuration .

spinningmagnets writes a step-by-step how-to on page 19: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=45245&start=450#p719603 (work in progress, almost complete)

Drive system with dual-freewheel Jackshaft -> much better drive-ability and no more need for crappy freewheel cranks
Wiki article: http://endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/E ... eel_Config:
Image
Image

Speeding up the Motor to get more continuous power

The less magnets a motor has and the thinner the laminations are, the faster we can spin it to gain a good efficiency an thus continous output power. power loss/ heat /inefficiency (=all the same) limits output power in the first place. On the other side, more poles means more torque for a motor of the same size.

Dues these facts, we can compare middrive motors (there is a much better and detailed list by miles i can't find ATM):
The Bafang BPM has less magnet poles (16) and can be speeded up further than the MAC (32poles, it has equal 0.5mm laminations, the BMC has 0.33mm). The BMC is there for a good choise for upspeeding, but it's more expensive. The Bafang BPM has a prospective advantage in Power/Weight ratio over the MAC due this, the BPM and the BMC should be about equal. Compared to RC motors like the CA120-70 and other low induction motors gain a even higher power/weight ratio - since they are available with 0.2mm thin laminations, just for comparison. BUT low induction motors have special requirements and often fry controllers, if not treated right (which is really hard as I had to experience). Still RC motors can be a good choice for a middrive if driven fast, which means a high reduction ratio.
In the end, the Bafang BPM seems to be the Jackpot. It's cheap, large and has great over-speeding/overvolting capabilities since it has only 16 poles.

Gearing a middrive: http://endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/G ... _mid_motor

List of people here who try this conversion:

in order of appearance
bob
with pics of his mounted heatsink here: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=45245&start=135#p672235

mr.electric
pics starting here: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=45245&start=135#p671774

studebiker
with some issues and useful explanation about disassembly here viewtopic.php?f=28&t=45245&start=210#p678511

whiplash
his new build thread: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=46568&p=681062#p680899

spinningmagnets
who shows us how it works using a MAC motor viewtopic.php?f=28&t=45245&start=450#p719603 (work in progress) and viewtopic.php?f=28&t=51603

waynebergman
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/vi ... 67#p730659


Sprocket Adapters
I used 18T 9-speed motor sprocket from an old cassette, it just got worn out very quick. IGH sprockets and chainwheels are much more durable and fit the purpose. Next step is an all left hand drive that uses custom sprocket adapter to make common freewheels and sprockets fit the flatened 12mm shaft of the humbotor. I'll start to sell these at cost soon... should look like this in the end:
Image
Image
Image

Here you can get such an adapter: viewtopic.php?f=31&t=52572


Link to the geared Hubmotors wiki page: http://endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/E ... _Hubmotors


Steps you need for converting the SWXB, SWXH, SWXU and Goldenmotor MBG

1. glue the stator to the side cover with epoxy putty, spray a bit of WD40 on the stator carrier, so that the putty does not glue to it, but takes a perfect copy of the shape.
Image

2. dirll holes for 6 holes with a 3.2mm drill. Then M4 cut threads
Image
Image

ONLY IF everything fits fine, proceed:
3. Remove the key, polish/enlarge the stator holder center hole using a file
download/file.php?id=101495

4. Drill a hole for the cables, pull them through the hole
Image

5. screw the stator holder to the side cover, put in the shaft and rotor, connect a controller+battery+throttle, let it spin....check if anything rubs
[sorry no pic]


6. assemble the hole unit, test again if if anything rubs...let it run for a few minutes and check nothing gets hot due rubbing.

7. Make a mount for your bike, drill holes into the hub housing to fasten it on your mount.
Edited by crossbreak on Thu Apr 03, 2014 7:12 am.
User avatar
crossbreak
100 MW
100 MW
 
Posts: 2807
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 11:20 am
Location: Germany

Revision 29: Re: Converting a hubmotor to a middrivemotor

Postby crossbreak » Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:28 pm

This Post will be updated frequently to summarize progress


This is the official conversion:


If one removes the key that fixes the stator on the axle, the axle can rotate and there is no need for any additional bearings. After you removed the key and screwed the stator to the hub-housing with an alloy-piece, the stator is fixed on the hub-housing, while the axle is free to rotate. The axle will in reverse direction after conversion.

remove_key.jpg

explosion_2.png

Pic that shows the turning directions from page 14
Image

This alloy-piece is called heat-bridge or thermal bridge since it conducts the waste-heat from the stator to the hub, which leads to much increased cooling of the stator. This piece fixes the stator in the hub, prevents it from turning. The screw holes must be machined very concentric, so the stator can not offset from the center. There must be a center alignment, we use the screws for that. Since we ca not use a The pic below shows the stator of a bafang SWXB, which was relatively simple to convert, due it's simple design. This really is a very powerful motor, sadly it's one of the loadest hubmotors on the market, due it's oversized and durable gears. Still I can recommend it for people who want only 1kW. It's still more quiet than the RC middrives I have seen.

my first Heatbridge /Thermal Bridge:
Image
Image

The axle still slips on the stator bore, so there shall be some space between these two components. We can make this space by by polishing/filing-down the surface of the shaft, till the axle can rotate without friction. You can also drill the stator bore to a greater diameter, but make sure your heatbridge centers the stator perfectly before you do this.

After a first test assembly to see if it all moves right, the axle has to shimmed right to axially align both rotor and planet carrier. There can be friction and noise which are induced by bad alignment. If you do this conversion, you should buy some shims (12 and 15mm inn dia) for alignment. Sry I've got no pics of the shims.

You may now add an additional Heatsink:
This pic from page 10 show how a heatsink for the stator could look like. thx bob for the pic. there are more if you look at page 10. This way the available continuous output power must be more than 4 of times the original (ie the MAC can output about 1800Watts, a small 250W bafang can do almost 1000W continuously):

Image

This conversion also enables the option to use both ends of the shaft. This way it can be used as a Jackshaft without using a freewheel crank[/color] Explanation what this does can be found in the wiki: http://endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/E ... figuration .

spinningmagnets writes a step-by-step how-to on page 19: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=45245&start=450#p719603 (work in progress, almost complete)

Drive system with dual-freewheel Jackshaft -> much better drive-ability and no more need for crappy freewheel cranks
Wiki article: http://endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/E ... eel_Config:
Image
Image

Speeding up the Motor to get more continuous power

The less magnets a motor has and the thinner the laminations are, the faster we can spin it to gain a good efficiency an thus continous output power. power loss/ heat /inefficiency (=all the same) limits output power in the first place. On the other side, more poles means more torque for a motor of the same size.

Dues these facts, we can compare middrive motors (there is a much better and detailed list by miles i can't find ATM):
The Bafang BPM has less magnet poles (16) and can be speeded up further than the MAC (32poles, it has equal 0.5mm laminations, the BMC has 0.33mm). The BMC is there for a good choise for upspeeding, but it's more expensive. The Bafang BPM has a prospective advantage in Power/Weight ratio over the MAC due this, the BPM and the BMC should be about equal. Compared to RC motors like the CA120-70 and other low induction motors gain a even higher power/weight ratio - since they are available with 0.2mm thin laminations, just for comparison. BUT low induction motors have special requirements and often fry controllers, if not treated right (which is really hard as I had to experience). Still RC motors can be a good choice for a middrive if driven fast, which means a high reduction ratio.
In the end, the Bafang BPM seems to be the Jackpot. It's cheap, large and has great over-speeding/overvolting capabilities since it has only 16 poles.

Gearing a middrive: http://endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/G ... _mid_motor

List of people here who try this conversion:

in order of appearance
bob
with pics of his mounted heatsink here: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=45245&start=135#p672235

mr.electric
pics starting here: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=45245&start=135#p671774

studebiker
with some issues and useful explanation about disassembly here viewtopic.php?f=28&t=45245&start=210#p678511

whiplash
his new build thread: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=46568&p=681062#p680899

spinningmagnets
who shows us how it works using a MAC motor viewtopic.php?f=28&t=45245&start=450#p719603 (work in progress) and viewtopic.php?f=28&t=51603

waynebergman
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/vi ... 67#p730659


Sprocket Adapters
I used 18T 9-speed motor sprocket from an old cassette, it just got worn out very quick. IGH sprockets and chainwheels are much more durable and fit the purpose. Next step is an all left hand drive that uses custom sprocket adapter to make common freewheels and sprockets fit the flatened 12mm shaft of the humbotor. I'll start to sell these at cost soon... should look like this in the end:
Image
Image
Image

Here you can take part of the design process of the adapters: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=45245&start=525#p766625


Link to the geared Hubmotors wiki page: http://endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/E ... _Hubmotors


Steps you need for converting the SWXB, SWXH, SWXU and Goldenmotor MBG

1. glue the stator to the side cover with epoxy putty, spray a bit of WD40 on the stator carrier, so that the putty does not glue to it, but takes a perfect copy of the shape.
Image

2. dirll holes for 6 holes with a 3.2mm drill. Then M4 cut threads
Image
Image

ONLY IF everything fits fine, proceed:
3. Remove the key, polish/enlarge the stator holder center hole using a file
download/file.php?id=101495

4. Drill a hole for the cables, pull them through the hole
Image

5. screw the stator holder to the side cover, put in the shaft and rotor, connect a controller+battery+throttle, let it spin....check if anything rubs
[sorry no pic]


6. assemble the hole unit, test again if if anything rubs...let it run for a few minutes and check nothing gets hot due rubbing.

7. Make a mount for your bike, drill holes into the hub housing to fasten it on your mount.
Edited by crossbreak on Sun Oct 27, 2013 8:37 am.
User avatar
crossbreak
100 MW
100 MW
 
Posts: 2807
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 11:20 am
Location: Germany

Revision 28: Re: Converting a hubmotor to a middrivemotor

Postby crossbreak » Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:28 pm

This Post will be updated frequently to summarize progress


This is the official conversion:


If one removes the key that fixes the stator on the axle, the axle can rotate and there is no need for any additional bearings. After you removed the key and screwed the stator to the hub-housing with an alloy-piece, the stator is fixed on the hub-housing, while the axle is free to rotate. The axle will in reverse direction after conversion.

remove_key.jpg

explosion_2.png

Pic that shows the turning directions from page 14
Image

This alloy-piece is called heat-bridge or thermal bridge since it conducts the waste-heat from the stator to the hub, which leads to much increased cooling of the stator. This piece fixes the stator in the hub, prevents it from turning. The screw holes must be machined very concentric, so the stator can not offset from the center. There must be a center alignment, we use the screws for that. Since we ca not use a The pic below shows the stator of a bafang SWXB, which was relatively simple to convert, due it's simple design. This really is a very powerful motor, sadly it's one of the loadest hubmotors on the market, due it's oversized and durable gears. Still I can recommend it for people who want only 1kW. It's still more quiet than the RC middrives I have seen.

my first Heatbridge /Thermal Bridge:
Image
Image

The axle still slips on the stator bore, so there shall be some space between these two components. We can make this space by by polishing/filing-down the surface of the shaft, till the axle can rotate without friction. You can also drill the stator bore to a greater diameter, but make sure your heatbridge centers the stator perfectly before you do this.

After a first test assembly to see if it all moves right, the axle has to shimmed right to axially align both rotor and planet carrier. There can be friction and noise which are induced by bad alignment. If you do this conversion, you should buy some shims (12 and 15mm inn dia) for alignment. Sry I've got no pics of the shims.

You may now add an additional Heatsink:
This pic from page 10 show how a heatsink for the stator could look like. thx bob for the pic. there are more if you look at page 10. This way the available continuous output power must be more than 4 of times the original (ie the MAC can output about 1800Watts, a small 250W bafang can do almost 1000W continuously):

Image

This conversion also enables the option to use both ends of the shaft. This way it can be used as a Jackshaft without using a freewheel crank[/color] Explanation what this does can be found in the wiki: http://endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/E ... figuration .

spinningmagnets writes a step-by-step how-to on page 19: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=45245&start=450#p719603 (work in progress, almost complete)

Drive system with dual-freewheel Jackshaft -> much better drive-ability and no more need for crappy freewheel cranks
Wiki article: http://endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/E ... eel_Config:
Image
Image

Speeding up the Motor to get more continuous power

The less magnets a motor has and the thinner the laminations are, the faster we can spin it to gain a good efficiency an thus continous output power. power loss/ heat /inefficiency (=all the same) limits output power in the first place. On the other side, more poles means more torque for a motor of the same size.

Dues these facts, we can compare middrive motors (there is a much better and detailed list by miles i can't find ATM):
The Bafang BPM has less magnet poles (16) and can be speeded up further than the MAC (32poles, it has equal 0.5mm laminations, the BMC has 0.33mm). The BMC is there for a good choise for upspeeding, but it's more expensive. The Bafang BPM has a prospective advantage in Power/Weight ratio over the MAC due this, the BPM and the BMC should be about equal. Compared to RC motors like the CA120-70 and other low induction motors gain a even higher power/weight ratio - since they are available with 0.2mm thin laminations, just for comparison. BUT low induction motors have special requirements and often fry controllers, if not treated right (which is really hard as I had to experience). Still RC motors can be a good choice for a middrive if driven fast, which means a high reduction ratio.
In the end, the Bafang BPM seems to be the Jackpot. It's cheap, large and has great over-speeding/overvolting capabilities since it has only 16 poles.

Gearing a middrive: http://endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/G ... _mid_motor

List of people here who try this conversion:

in order of appearance
bob
with pics of his mounted heatsink here: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=45245&start=135#p672235

mr.electric
pics starting here: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=45245&start=135#p671774

studebiker
with some issues and useful explanation about disassembly here viewtopic.php?f=28&t=45245&start=210#p678511

whiplash
his new build thread: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=46568&p=681062#p680899

spinningmagnets
who shows us how it works using a MAC motor viewtopic.php?f=28&t=45245&start=450#p719603 (work in progress) and viewtopic.php?f=28&t=51603

waynebergman
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/vi ... 67#p730659


Sprocket Adapters
I used 18T 9-speed motor sprocket from an old cassette, it just got worn out very quick. IGH sprockets and chainwheels are much more durable and fit the purpose. Next step is an all left hand drive that uses custom sprocket adapter to make common freewheels and sprockets fit the flatened 12mm shaft of the humbotor. I'll start to sell these at cost soon... should look like this in the end:
Image
Image
Image

Here you can take part of the design process of the adapters: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=45245&start=525#p766625


Link to the geared Hubmotors wiki page: http://endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/E ... _Hubmotors
Edited by crossbreak on Fri Jul 19, 2013 6:59 am.
User avatar
crossbreak
100 MW
100 MW
 
Posts: 2807
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 11:20 am
Location: Germany

Revision 27: Re: Converting a hubmotor to a middrivemotor

Postby crossbreak » Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:28 pm

This Post will be updated frequently to summarize progress


This is the official conversion:


If one removes the key that fixes the stator on the axle, the axle can rotate and there is no need for any additional bearings. After you removed the key and screwed the stator to the hub-housing with an alloy-piece, the stator is fixed on the hub-housing, while the axle is free to rotate. The axle will in reverse direction after conversion.

remove_key.jpg

explosion_2.png

Pic that shows the turning directions from page 14
Image

This alloy-piece is called heat-bridge or thermal bridge since it conducts the waste-heat from the stator to the hub, which leads to much increased cooling of the stator. This piece fixes the stator in the hub, prevents it from turning. The screw holes must be machined very concentric, so the stator can not offset from the center. There must be a center alignment, we use the screws for that. Since we ca not use a The pic below shows the stator of a bafang SWXB, which was relatively simple to convert, due it's simple design. This really is a very powerful motor, sadly it's one of the loadest hubmotors on the market, due it's oversized and durable gears. Still I can recommend it for people who want only 1kW. It's still more quiet than the RC middrives I have seen.

my first Heatbridge /Thermal Bridge:
Image
Image

The axle still slips on the stator bore, so there shall be some space between these two components. We can make this space by by polishing/filing-down the surface of the shaft, till the axle can rotate without friction. You can also drill the stator bore to a greater diameter, but make sure your heatbridge centers the stator perfectly before you do this.

After a first test assembly to see if it all moves right, the axle has to shimmed right to axially align both rotor and planet carrier. There can be friction and noise which are induced by bad alignment. If you do this conversion, you should buy some shims (12 and 15mm inn dia) for alignment. Sry I've got no pics of the shims.

You may now add an additional Heatsink:
This pic from page 10 show how a heatsink for the stator could look like. thx bob for the pic. there are more if you look at page 10. This way the available continuous output power must be more than 4 of times the original (ie the MAC can output about 1800Watts, a small 250W bafang can do almost 1000W continuously):

Image

This conversion also enables the option to use both ends of the shaft. This way it can be used as a Jackshaft without using a freewheel crank[/color] Explanation what this does can be found in the wiki: http://endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/E ... figuration .

spinningmagnets writes a step-by-step how-to on page 19: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 50#p719603 (work in progress, almost complete)

Drive system with dual-freewheel Jackshaft -> much better drive-ability and no more need for crappy freewheel cranks
Wiki article: http://endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/E ... eel_Config:
Image
Image

Speeding up the Motor to get more continuous power

The less magnets a motor has and the thinner the laminations are, the faster we can spin it to gain a good efficiency an thus continous output power. power loss/ heat /inefficiency (=all the same) limits output power in the first place. On the other side, more poles means more torque for a motor of the same size.

Dues these facts, we can compare middrive motors (there is a much better and detailed list by miles i can't find ATM):
The Bafang BPM has less magnet poles (16) and can be speeded up further than the MAC (32poles, it has equal 0.5mm laminations, the BMC has 0.33mm). The BMC is there for a good choise for upspeeding, but it's more expensive. The Bafang BPM has a prospective advantage in Power/Weight ratio over the MAC due this, the BPM and the BMC should be about equal. Compared to RC motors like the CA120-70 and other low induction motors gain a even higher power/weight ratio - since they are available with 0.2mm thin laminations, just for comparison. BUT low induction motors have special requirements and often fry controllers, if not treated right (which is really hard as I had to experience). Still RC motors can be a good choice for a middrive if driven fast, which means a high reduction ratio.
In the end, the Bafang BPM seems to be the Jackpot. It's cheap, large and has great over-speeding/overvolting capabilities since it has only 16 poles.

Gearing a middrive: http://endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/G ... _mid_motor

List of people here who try this conversion:

in order of appearance
bob
with pics of his mounted heatsink here: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 35#p672235

mr.electric
pics starting here: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 35#p671774

studebiker
with some issues and useful explanation about disassembly here http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 10#p678511

whiplash
his new build thread: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 62#p680899

[b]spinningmagnets[b]
who shows us how it works using a MAC motor http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 50#p719603 (work in progress)

waynebergman
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/vi ... 67#p730659


Sprocket Adapters
I used 18T 9-speed motor sprocket from an old cassette, it just got worn out very quick. IGH sprockets and chainwheels are much more durable and fit the purpose. Next step is an all left hand drive that uses custom sprocket adapter to make common freewheels and sprockets fit the flatened 12mm shaft of the humbotor. I'll start to sell these at cost soon... should look like this in the end:
Image
Image
Image

Here you can take part of the design process of the adapters: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 25#p766625


Link to the geared Hubmotors wiki page: http://endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/E ... _Hubmotors
Edited by crossbreak on Wed Jul 17, 2013 5:19 pm.
User avatar
crossbreak
100 MW
100 MW
 
Posts: 2807
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 11:20 am
Location: Germany

Revision 26: Re: Converting a hubmotor to a middrivemotor

Postby crossbreak » Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:28 pm

This Post will be updated frequently to summarize progress


This is the official conversion:


If one removes the key that fixes the stator on the axle, the axle can rotate and there is no need for any additional bearings. After you removed the key and screwed the stator to the hub-housing with an alloy-piece, the stator is fixed on the hub-housing, while the axle is free to rotate. The axle will in reverse direction after conversion.

remove_key.jpg

explosion_2.png

Pic that shows the turning directions from page 14
Image

This alloy-piece is called heat-bridge or thermal bridge since it conducts the waste-heat from the stator to the hub, which leads to much increased cooling of the stator. This piece also centers the stator in the housing, the screw holes must be machined very concentric. The pic below shows the stator of a bafang SWXB, which was relatively simple to convert, due it's simple design. This really is a very powerful motor, sadly it's one of the loadest hubmotors on the market, due it's oversized and durable gears. Still I can recommend it for people who want only 1kW. It's still more quiet than the RC middrives I have seen.

my first Heatbridge /Thermal Bridge:
Image
Image

The axle still slips on the stator bore, so there shall be some space between these two components. We can make this space by by polishing/filing-down the surface of the shaft, till the axle can rotate without friction. You can also drill the stator bore to a greater diameter, but make sure your heatbridge centers the stator perfectly before you do this.

After a first test assembly to see if it all moves right, the axle has to shimmed right to axially align both rotor and planet carrier. There can be friction and noise which are induced by bad alignment. If you do this conversion, you should buy some shims (12 and 15mm inn dia) for alignment. Sry I've got no pics of the shims.

You may now add an additional Heatsink:
This pic from page 10 show how a heatsink for the stator could look like. thx bob for the pic. there are more if you look at page 10. This way the available continuous output power must be more than 4 of times the original (ie the MAC can output about 1800Watts, a small 250W bafang can do almost 1000W continuously):

Image

This conversion also enables the option to use both ends of the shaft. This way it can be used as a Jackshaft without using a freewheel crank[/color] Explanation what this does can be found in the wiki: http://endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/E ... figuration .

spinningmagnets writes a step-by-step how-to on page 19: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=45245&start=450#p719603 (work in progress, almost complete)

Drive system with dual-freewheel Jackshaft -> much better drive-ability and no more need for crappy freewheel cranks
Wiki article: http://endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/E ... eel_Config:
Image
Image

Speeding up the Motor to get more continuous power

The less magnets a motor has and the thinner the laminations are, the faster we can spin it to gain a good efficiency an thus continous output power. power loss/ heat /inefficiency (=all the same) limits output power in the first place. On the other side, more poles means more torque for a motor of the same size.

Dues these facts, we can compare middrive motors (there is a much better and detailed list by miles i can't find ATM):
The Bafang BPM has less magnet poles (16) and can be speeded up further than the MAC (32poles, it has equal 0.5mm laminations, the BMC has 0.33mm). The BMC is there for a good choise for upspeeding, but it's more expensive. The Bafang BPM has a prospective advantage in Power/Weight ratio over the MAC due this, the BPM and the BMC should be about equal. Compared to Inrunners like the GNG-V1 (8 magnet poles, with equal 0.5mm laminations, thx to christerljung we know that) the GNG could get an even better power/weight-ratio if geared and volted right...A RC motor like the turnigy 80-100 or the CA120-70 and other low induction motors gain a even higher power/weight ratio - since they are available with 0.2mm thin laminations, just for comparison. BUT low induction motors have special requirements and often fry controllers, if not treated right (which is really hard as I had to experience). Still RC motors can be a good choice for a middrive if driven fast, which means a high reduction ratio.

Gearing a middrive: http://endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/G ... _mid_motor

List of people here who try this conversion:

in order of appearance
bob
with pics of his mounted heatsink here: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=45245&start=135#p672235

mr.electric
pics starting here: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=45245&start=135#p671774

studebiker
with some issues and useful explanation about disassembly here viewtopic.php?f=28&t=45245&start=210#p678511

whiplash
his new build thread: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=46568&p=681062#p680899

[spinningmagnets]
who to shows us how it works using a MAC motor viewtopic.php?f=28&t=45245&start=450#p719603 (work in progress)

waynebergman
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/vi ... 67#p730659


Sprocket Adapters
I used 18T 9-speed motor sprocket from an old cassette, it just got worn out very quick. IGH sprockets and chainwheels are much more durable and fit the purpose. Next step is an all left hand drive that uses custom sprocket adapter to make common freewheels and sprockets fit the flatened 12mm shaft of the humbotor. I'll start to sell these at cost soon... should look like this in the end:
Image
Image
Image

Here you can take part of the design process of the adapters: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=45245&start=525#p766625


Link to the geared Hubmotors wiki page: http://endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/E ... _Hubmotors
Edited by crossbreak on Wed Jul 17, 2013 4:42 am.
User avatar
crossbreak
100 MW
100 MW
 
Posts: 2807
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 11:20 am
Location: Germany

Revision 25: Re: Converting a hubmotor to a middrivemotor

Postby crossbreak » Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:28 pm

This Post will be updated frequently to summarize progress


This is the official conversion:


If one removes the key that fixes the stator on the axle, the axle can rotate and there is no need for any additional bearings. After you removed the key and screwed the stator to the hub-housing with an alloy-piece, the stator is fixed on the hub-housing, while the axle is free to rotate. The axle will in reverse direction after conversion.

remove_key.jpg

explosion_2.png

Pic that shows the turning directions from page 14
Image

This alloy-piece is called heat-bridge or thermal bridge since it conducts the waste-heat from the stator to the hub, which leads to much increased cooling of the stator. This piece also centers the stator in the housing, the screw holes must be machined very concentric. The pic below shows the stator of a bafang SWXB, which was relatively simple to convert, due it's simple design. This really is a very powerful motor, sadly it's one of the loadest hubmotors on the market, due it's oversized and durable gears. Still I can recommend it for people who want only 1kW. It's still more quiet than the RC middrives I have seen.

my first Heatbridge /Thermal Bridge:
Image
Image

The axle still slips on the stator bore, so there shall be some space between these two components. We can make this space by by polishing/filing-down the surface of the shaft, till the axle can rotate without friction. You can also drill the stator bore to a greater diameter, but make sure your heatbridge centers the stator perfectly before you do this.

After a first test assembly to see if it all moves right, the axle has to shimmed right to axially align both rotor and planet carrier. There can be friction and noise which are induced by bad alignment. If you do this conversion, you should buy some shims (12 and 15mm inn dia) for alignment. Sry I've got no pics of the shims.

You may now add an additional Heatsink:
This pic from page 10 show how a heatsink for the stator could look like. thx bob for the pic. there are more if you look at page 10. This way the available continuous output power must be more than 4 of times the original (ie the MAC can output about 1800Watts, a small 250W bafang can do almost 1000W continuously):

Image

This conversion also enables the option to use both ends of the shaft. This way it can be used as a Jackshaft without using a freewheel crank[/color] Explanation what this does can be found in the wiki: http://endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/E ... figuration .

spinningmagnets writes a step-by-step how-to on page 19: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=45245&start=450#p719603 (work in progress, almost complete)

Drive system with dual-freewheel Jackshaft -> much better drive-ability and no more need for crappy freewheel cranks
Wiki article: http://endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/E ... eel_Config:
Image
Image

Speeding up the Motor to get more continuous power

The less magnets a motor has and the thinner the laminations are, the faster we can spin it to gain a good efficiency an thus continous output power. power loss/ heat /inefficiency (=all the same) limits output power in the first place. On the other side, more poles means more torque for a motor of the same size.

Dues these facts, we can compare middrive motors (there is a much better and detailed list by miles i can't find ATM):
The Bafang BPM has less magnet poles (16) and can be speeded up further than the MAC (32poles, it has equal 0.5mm laminations, the BMC has 0.33mm). The BMC is there for a good choise for upspeeding, but it's more expensive. The Bafang BPM has a prospective advantage in Power/Weight ratio over the MAC due this, the BPM and the BMC should be about equal. Compared to Inrunners like the GNG-V1 (8 magnet poles, with equal 0.5mm laminations, thx to christerljung we know that) the GNG could get an even better power/weight-ratio if geared and volted right...A RC motor like the turnigy 80-100 or the CA120-70 and other low induction motors gain a even higher power/weight ratio - since they are available with 0.2mm thin laminations, just for comparison. BUT low induction motors have special requirements and often fry controllers, if not treated right (which is really hard as I had to experience). Still RC motors can be a good choice for a middrive if driven fast, which means a high reduction ratio.

Gearing a middrive: http://endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/G ... _mid_motor

List of people here who try this conversion:

in order of appearance
bob
with pics of his mounted heatsink here: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=45245&start=135#p672235

mr.electric
pics starting here: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=45245&start=135#p671774

studebiker
with some issues and useful explanation about disassembly here viewtopic.php?f=28&t=45245&start=210#p678511

whiplash
his new build thread: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=46568&p=681062#p680899

[spinningmagnets]
who to shows us how it works using a MAC motor viewtopic.php?f=28&t=45245&start=450#p719603 (work in progress)

waynebergman
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/vi ... 67#p730659


Sprocket Adapters
I used 18T 9-speed motor sprocket from an old cassette, it just got worn out very quick. IGH sprockets and chainwheels are much more durable and fit the purpose. Next step is an all left hand drive that uses custom sprocket adapter to make common freewheels and sprockets fit the flatened 12mm shaft of the humbotor. I'll start to sell these at cost soon... should look like this in the end:
Image
Image

Here you can take part of the design process of the adapters: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=45245&start=525#p766625


Link to the geared Hubmotors wiki page: http://endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/E ... _Hubmotors
Edited by crossbreak on Tue Jul 16, 2013 4:55 am.
User avatar
crossbreak
100 MW
100 MW
 
Posts: 2807
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 11:20 am
Location: Germany

Revision 24: Re: Converting a hubmotor to a middrivemotor

Postby crossbreak » Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:28 pm

This Post will be updated frequently to summarize progress


This is the official conversion:


If one removes the key that fixes the stator on the axle, the axle can rotate and there is no need for any additional bearings. After you removed the key and screwed the stator to the hub-housing with an alloy-piece, the stator is fixed on the hub-housing, while the axle is free to rotate. The axle will in reverse direction after conversion.

remove_key.jpg

explosion_2.png

Pic that shows the turning directions from page 14
Image

This alloy-piece is called heat-bridge or thermal bridge since it conducts the waste-heat from the stator to the hub, which leads to much increased cooling of the stator. This piece also centers the stator in the housing, the screw holes must be machined very concentric. The pic below shows the stator of a bafang SWXB, which was relatively simple to convert, due it's simple design. This really is a very powerful motor, sadly it's one of the loadest hubmotors on the market, due it's oversized and durable gears. Still I can recommend it for people who want only 1kW. It's still more quiet than the RC middrives I have seen.

my first Heatbridge /Thermal Bridge:
Image
Image

The axle still slips on the stator bore, so there shall be some space between these two components. We can make this space by by polishing/filing-down the surface of the shaft, till the axle can rotate without friction. You can also drill the stator bore to a greater diameter, but make sure your heatbridge centers the stator perfectly before you do this.

After a first test assembly to see if it all moves right, the axle has to shimmed right to axially align both rotor and planet carrier. There can be friction and noise which are induced by bad alignment. If you do this conversion, you should buy some shims (12 and 15mm inn dia) for alignment. Sry I've got no pics of the shims.

You may now add an additional Heatsink:
This pic from page 10 show how a heatsink for the stator could look like. thx bob for the pic. there are more if you look at page 10. This way the available continuous output power must be more than 4 of times the original (ie the MAC can output about 1800Watts, a small 250W bafang can do almost 1000W continuously):

Image

This conversion also enables the option to use both ends of the shaft. This way it can be used as a Jackshaft without using a freewheel crank[/color] Explanation what this does can be found in the wiki: http://endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/E ... figuration .

spinningmagnets writes a step-by-step how-to on page 19: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 50#p719603 (work in progress, almost complete)

Drive system with dual-freewheel Jackshaft -> much better drive-ability and no more need for crappy freewheel cranks
Wiki article: http://endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/E ... eel_Config:
Image
Image

I use 18T 11/128 motor sprocket, it just got worn out very quick. People, dont use 9- 10- and 11speed chains. I made this fault, I can only recommend to go for 7 or 8-speed and 3/32" chain systems since there is NO SUPPLY for good motor sprockets for these 11/128" chains

Speeding up the Motor to get more continuous power

The less magnets a motor has and the thinner the laminations are, the faster we can spin it to gain a good efficiency an thus continous output power. power loss/ heat /inefficiency (=all the same) limits output power in the first place. On the other side, more poles means more torque for a motor of the same size.

Dues these facts, we can compare middrive motors (there is a much better and detailed list by miles i can't find ATM):
The Bafang BPM has less magnet poles (16) and can be speeded up further than the MAC (32poles, it has equal 0.5mm laminations, the BMC has 0.33mm). The BMC is there for a good choise for upspeeding, but it's more expensive. The Bafang BPM has a prospective advantage in Power/Weight ratio over the MAC due this, the BPM and the BMC should be about equal. Compared to Inrunners like the GNG-V1 (8 magnet poles, with equal 0.5mm laminations, thx to christerljung we know that) the GNG could get an even better power/weight-ratio if geared and volted right...A RC motor like the turnigy 80-100 or the CA120-70 and other low induction motors gain a even higher power/weight ratio - since they are available with 0.2mm thin laminations, just for comparison. BUT low induction motors have special requirements and often fry controllers, if not treated right (which is really hard as I had to experience). Still RC motors can be a good choice for a middrive if driven fast, which means a high reduction ratio.

Gearing a middrive: http://endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/G ... _mid_motor

List of people here who try this conversion:

in order of appearance
bob
with pics of his mounted heatsink here: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 35#p672235

mr.electric
pics starting here: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 35#p671774

studebiker
with some issues and useful explanation about disassembly here http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 10#p678511

whiplash
his new build thread: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 62#p680899

[spinningmagnets]
who to shows us how it works using a MAC motor http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 50#p719603 (work in progress)

waynebergman
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=49467#p730659

Link to the geared Hubmotors wiki page: http://endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/E ... _Hubmotors
Edited by crossbreak on Wed May 01, 2013 11:53 am.
User avatar
crossbreak
100 MW
100 MW
 
Posts: 2807
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 11:20 am
Location: Germany

Revision 23: Re: Converting a hubmotor to a middrivemotor

Postby crossbreak » Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:28 pm

This Post will be updated frequently to summarize progress


This is the official conversion:


If one removes the key that fixes the stator on the axle, the axle can rotate and there is no need for any additional bearings. After you removed the key and screwed the stator to the hub-housing with an alloy-piece, the stator is fixed on the hub-housing, while the axle is free to rotate. The axle will in reverse direction after conversion.

remove_key.jpg

explosion_2.png

Pic that shows the turning directions from page 14
Image

This alloy-piece is called heat-bridge or thermal bridge since it conducts the waste-heat from the stator to the hub, which leads to much increased cooling of the stator. This piece also centers the stator in the housing, the screw holes must be machined very concentric. The pic below shows the stator of a bafang SWXB, which was relatively simple to convert, due it's simple design. This really is a very powerful motor, sadly it's one of the loadest hubmotors on the market, due it's oversized and durable gears. Still I can recommend it for people who want only 1kW. It's still more quiet than the RC middrives I have seen.

my first Heatbridge /Thermal Bridge:
Image
Image

The axle still slips on the stator bore, so there shall be some space between these two components. We can make this space by by polishing/filing-down the surface of the shaft, till the axle can rotate without friction. You can also drill the stator bore to a greater diameter, but make sure your heatbridge centers the stator perfectly before you do this.

After a first test assembly to see if it all moves right, the axle has to shimmed right to axially align both rotor and planet carrier. There can be friction and noise which are induced by bad alignment. If you do this conversion, you should buy some shims (12 and 15mm inn dia) for alignment. Sry I've got no pics of the shims.

You may now add an additional Heatsink:
This pic from page 10 show how a heatsink for the stator could look like. thx bob for the pic. there are more if you look at page 10. This way the available continuous output power must be more than 4 of times the original (ie the MAC can output about 1800Watts, a small 250W bafang can do almost 1000W continuously):

Image

This conversion also enables the option to use both ends of the shaft. This way it can be used as a Jackshaft without using a freewheel crank[/color] Explanation what this does can be found in the wiki: http://endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/E ... figuration .

spinningmagnets writes a step-by-step how-to on page 19: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=45245&start=450#p719603 (work in progress, almost complete)

Drive system with dual-freewheel Jackshaft -> much better drive-ability and no more need for crappy freewheel cranks
Wiki article: http://endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/E ... eel_Config:
Image
Image

I use 18T 11/128 motor sprocket, it just got worn out very quick. People, dont use 9- 10- and 11speed chains. I made this fault, I can only recommend to go for 7 or 8-speed and 3/32" chain systems since there is NO SUPPLY for good motor sprockets for these 11/128" chains

Speeding up the Motor to get more continuous power

The less magnets a motor has and the thinner the laminations are, the faster we can spin it to gain a good efficiency an thus continous output power. power loss/ heat /inefficiency (=all the same) limits output power in the first place. On the other side, more poles means more torque for a motor of the same size.

Dues these facts, we can compare middrive motors (there is a much better and detailed list by miles i can't find ATM):
The Bafang BPM has less magnet poles (16) and can be speeded up further than the MAC (32poles, it has equal 0.5mm laminations, the BMC has 0.33mm). The BMC is there for a good choise for upspeeding, but it's more expensive. The Bafang BPM has a prospective advantage in Power/Weight ratio over the MAC due this, the BPM and the BMC should be about equal. Compared to Inrunners like the GNG-V1 (8 magnet poles, with equal 0.5mm laminations, thx to christerljung we know that) the GNG could get an even better power/weight-ratio if geared and volted right...A RC motor like the turnigy 80-100 or the CA120-70 and other low induction motors gain a even higher power/weight ratio - since they are available with 0.2mm thin laminations, just for comparison. BUT low induction motors have special requirements and often fry controllers, if not treated right (which is really hard as I had to experience). Still RC motors can be a good choice for a middrive if driven fast, which means a high reduction ratio.

Gearing a middrive: http://endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/G ... _mid_motor

List of people here who try this conversion:

in order of appearance
bob
with pics of his mounted heatsink here: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=45245&start=135#p672235

mr.electric
pics starting here: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=45245&start=135#p671774

studebiker
with some issues and useful explanation about disassembly here viewtopic.php?f=28&t=45245&start=210#p678511

whiplash
his new build thread: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=46568&p=681062#p680899

[spinningmagnets]
who to shows us how it works using a MAC motor viewtopic.php?f=28&t=45245&start=450#p719603 (work in progress)

Link to the geared Hubmotors wiki page: http://endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/E ... _Hubmotors
Edited by crossbreak on Thu Apr 18, 2013 2:10 am.
User avatar
crossbreak
100 MW
100 MW
 
Posts: 2807
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 11:20 am
Location: Germany

Revision 22: Re: Converting a hubmotor to a middrivemotor

Postby crossbreak » Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:28 pm

This Post will be updated frequently to summarize progress


This is the official conversion:


[color=#FF0000]If one removes the key (not the one in the explosion view) from the stator mount, the axle can rotate and there is no need for any additional bearings. This also enables the option to use both ends of the shaft. This way it can be used as a Jackshaft without using a freewheel crank[/color] Explanation what this does can be found in the wiki: http://endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/E ... figuration .

spinningmagnets writes a step-by-step how-to on page 19: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=45245&start=450#p719603 (work in progress, almost complete)


The axle has to shimmed right to axially align both rotor and planet carrier. There can be friction and noise which are induced by bad alignment. If you do this conversion, you should buy some shims (12 and 15mm inn dia) for alignment.

the pic below shows the stator of a bafang SWXB, which was relatively simple to convert, due it's simple design. This really is a very powerful motor, sadly it's one of the loadest hubmotors on the market, due it's oversized and durable gears. Still I can recommend it for people who want only 1kW. It's still more quiet than the RC middrives I have seen.
remove_key.jpg

explosion_2.png


my first Heatbridge /Thermal Bridge:
Image
Image

This pic from page 10 show how a heatsink for the stator could look like. thx bob for the pic. there are more if you look at page 10. This way the available continuous output power must be more than 4 of times the original (ie the MAC can output about 1800Watts, a small 250W bafang can do almost 1000W continuously):

Image

Pic that shows the turning directions from page 14
Image

Drive system with dual-freewheel Jackshaft -> much better drive-ability and no more need for crappy freewheel cranks
Wiki article: http://endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/E ... eel_Config:
Image
Image

I use 18T 11/128 motor sprocket, it just got worn out very quick. People, dont use 9- 10- and 11speed chains. I made this fault, I can only recommend to go for 7 or 8-speed and 3/32" chain systems since there is NO SUPPLY for good motor sprockets for these 11/128" chains



Speeding up the Motor to get more continuous power

The less magnets a motor has and the thinner the laminations are, the faster we can spin it to gain a good efficiency an thus continous output power. power loss/ heat /inefficiency (=all the same) limits output power in the first place. On the other side, more poles means more torque for a motor of the same size.

Dues these facts, we can compare middrive motors (there is a much better and detailed list by miles i can't find ATM):
The Bafang BPM has less magnet poles (16) and can be speeded up further than the MAC (32poles, it has equal 0.5mm laminations, the BMC has 0.33mm). The BMC is there for a good choise for upspeeding, but it's more expensive. The Bafang BPM has a prospective advantage in Power/Weight ratio over the MAC due this, the BPM and the BMC should be about equal. Compared to Inrunners like the GNG-V1 (8 magnet poles, with equal 0.5mm laminations, thx to christerljung we know that) the GNG could get an even better power/weight-ratio if geared and volted right...A RC motor like the turnigy 80-100 or the CA120-70 and other low induction motors gain a even higher power/weight ratio - since they are available with 0.2mm thin laminations, just for comparison. BUT low induction motors have special requirements and often fry controllers, if not treated right (which is really hard as I had to experience). Still RC motors can be a good choice for a middrive if driven fast, which means a high reduction ratio.

Gearing a middrive: http://endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/G ... _mid_motor

List of people here who try this conversion:

in order of appearance
bob
with pics of his mounted heatsink here: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=45245&start=135#p672235

mr.electric
pics starting here: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=45245&start=135#p671774

studebiker
with some issues and useful explanation about disassembly here viewtopic.php?f=28&t=45245&start=210#p678511

whiplash
his new build thread: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=46568&p=681062#p680899

[spinningmagnets]
who to shows us how it works using a MAC motor viewtopic.php?f=28&t=45245&start=450#p719603 (work in progress)

Link to the geared Hubmotors wiki page: http://endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/E ... _Hubmotors
Edited by crossbreak on Thu Apr 18, 2013 1:45 am.
User avatar
crossbreak
100 MW
100 MW
 
Posts: 2807
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 11:20 am
Location: Germany

Revision 21: Re: Converting a hubmotor to a middrivemotor

Postby crossbreak » Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:28 pm

This Post will be updated frequently to summarize progress


the above version of the conversion mod was abandoned, since I found a more simple version:


[color=#FF0000]If one removes the key (not the one in the explosion view) from the stator mount, the axle can rotate and there is no need for any additional bearings. This also enables the option to use both ends of the shaft. This way it can be used as a Jackshaft without using a freewheel crank[/color] Explanation what this does can be found in the wiki: http://endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/E ... figuration .

This new mod starts on page 3. I wrote a pseudo How-To for the MAC motor on page 8.
spinningmagnets writes a step-by-step how-to on page 19: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=45245&start=450#p719603 (work in progress, almost complete)


The axle has to shimmed right to axially align both rotor and planet carrier. How this is exactly done for the MAC will be posted here soon. mr.electric had issues which maybe induced by bad alignment, hopefully we will know more about this soon. If you do this conversion, you should buy some shims (12 and 15mm inn dia) for alignment.

the pic below shows the stator of a bafang SWXB, which was relatively simple to convert, due it's simple design. This really is a very powerful motor, sadly it's one of the loadest hubmotors on the market, due it's oversized and durable gears. Still I can recommend it for people who want only 1kW. It's still more quiet than the RC middrives I have seen.
Yucaipa_Redlands_01.zip
(1.83 KiB) Downloaded 19 times

The attachment remove_key.jpg is no longer available


my first Heatbridge /Thermal Bridge:
Image
Image

This pic from page 10 show how a heatsink for the stator could look like. thx bob for the pic. there are more if you look at page 10. This way the available continuous output power must be more than 4 of times the original (ie the MAC can output about 1800Watts, a small 250W bafang can do almost 1000W continuously):

Image

Pic that shows the turning directions from page 14
Image

Drive system with dual-freewheel Jackshaft -> much better drive-ability and no more need for crappy freewheel cranks
Wiki article: http://endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/E ... eel_Config:
Image
Image

I use 18T 11/128 motor sprocket, it just got worn out very quick. People, dont use 9- 10- and 11speed chains. I made this fault, I can only recommend to go for 7 or 8-speed and 3/32" chain systems since there is NO SUPPLY for good motor sprockets for these 11/128" chains



Speeding up the Motor to get more continuous power

The less magnets a motor has and the thinner the laminations are, the faster we can spin it to gain a good efficiency an thus continous output power. power loss/ heat /inefficiency (=all the same) limits output power in the first place. On the other side, more poles means more torque for a motor of the same size.

Dues these facts, we can compare middrive motors (there is a much better and detailed list by miles i can't find ATM):
The Bafang BPM has less magnet poles (16) and can be speeded up further than the MAC (32poles, it has equal 0.5mm laminations, the BMC has 0.33mm). The BMC is there for a good choise for upspeeding, but it's more expensive. The Bafang BPM has a prospective advantage in Power/Weight ratio over the MAC due this, the BPM and the BMC should be about equal. Compared to Inrunners like the GNG-V1 (8 magnet poles, with equal 0.5mm laminations, thx to christerljung we know that) the GNG could get an even better power/weight-ratio if geared and volted right...A RC motor like the turnigy 80-100 or the CA120-70 and other low induction motors gain a even higher power/weight ratio - since they are available with 0.2mm thin laminations, just for comparison. BUT low induction motors have special requirements and often fry controllers, if not treated right (which is really hard as I had to experience). Still RC motors can be a good choice for a middrive if driven fast, which means a high reduction ratio.

Gearing a middrive: http://endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/G ... _mid_motor

List of people here who try this conversion:

in order of appearance
bob
with pics of his mounted heatsink here: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=45245&start=135#p672235

mr.electric
pics starting here: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=45245&start=135#p671774

studebiker
with some issues and useful explanation about disassembly here viewtopic.php?f=28&t=45245&start=210#p678511

whiplash
his new build thread: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=46568&p=681062#p680899

[spinningmagnets]
who to shows us how it works using a MAC motor viewtopic.php?f=28&t=45245&start=450#p719603 (work in progress)

Link to the geared Hubmotors wiki page: http://endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/E ... _Hubmotors
Edited by crossbreak on Thu Apr 18, 2013 1:28 am.
User avatar
crossbreak
100 MW
100 MW
 
Posts: 2807
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 11:20 am
Location: Germany

Revision 20: Re: Converting a hubmotor to a middrivemotor

Postby crossbreak » Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:28 pm

This Post will be updated frequently to summarize progress


the above version of the conversion mod was abandoned, since I found a more simple version:


[color=#FF0000]If one removes the key (not the one in the explosion view) from the stator mount, the axle can rotate and there is no need for any additional bearings. This also enables the option to use both ends of the shaft. This way it can be used as a Jackshaft without using a freewheel crank[/color] Explanation what this does can be found in the wiki: http://endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/E ... figuration .

This new mod starts on page 3. I wrote a pseudo How-To for the MAC motor on page 8.
spinningmagnets writes a step-by-step how-to on page 19: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=45245&start=450#p719603 (work in progress)


The axle has to shimmed right to axially align both rotor and planet carrier. How this is exactly done for the MAC will be posted here soon. mr.electric had issues which maybe induced by bad alignment, hopefully we will know more about this soon. If you do this conversion, you should buy some shims (12 and 15mm inn dia) for alignment.

the pic below shows the stator of a bafang SWXB, which was relatively simple to convert, due it's simple design. This really is a very powerful motor, sadly it's one of the loadest hubmotors on the market, due it's oversized and durable gears. Still I can recommend it for people who want only 1kW. It's still more quiet than the RC middrives I have seen.
remove_key.jpg

explosion_2.png


my first Heatbridge /Thermal Bridge:
Image
Image

This pic from page 10 show how a heatsink for the stator could look like. thx bob for the pic. there are more if you look at page 10. This way the available continuous output power must be more than 4 of times the original (ie the MAC can output about 1800Watts, a small 250W bafang can do almost 1000W continuously):

Image

Pic that shows the turning directions from page 14
Image

Drive system with dual-freewheel Jackshaft -> much better drive-ability and no more need for crappy freewheel cranks
Wiki article: http://endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/E ... eel_Config:
Image
Image

I use 18T 11/128 motor sprocket, it just got worn out very quick. People, dont use 9- 10- and 11speed chains. I made this fault, I can only recommend to go for 7 or 8-speed and 3/32" chain systems since there is NO SUPPLY for good motor sprockets for these 11/128" chains



Speeding up the Motor to get more continuous power

The less magnets a motor has and the thinner the laminations are, the faster we can spin it to gain a good efficiency an thus continous output power. power loss/ heat /inefficiency (=all the same) limits output power in the first place. On the other side, more poles means more torque for a motor of the same size.

Dues these facts, we can compare middrive motors (there is a much better and detailed list by miles i can't find ATM):
The Bafang BPM has less magnet poles (16) and can be speeded up further than the MAC (32poles, it has equal 0.5mm laminations, the BMC has 0.33mm). The BMC is there for a good choise for upspeeding, but it's more expensive. The Bafang BPM has a prospective advantage in Power/Weight ratio over the MAC due this, the BPM and the BMC should be about equal. Compared to Inrunners like the GNG-V1 (8 magnet poles, with equal 0.5mm laminations, thx to christerljung we know that) the GNG could get an even better power/weight-ratio if geared and volted right...A RC motor like the turnigy 80-100 or the CA120-70 and other low induction motors gain a even higher power/weight ratio - since they are available with 0.2mm thin laminations, just for comparison. BUT low induction motors have special requirements and often fry controllers, if not treated right (which is really hard as I had to experience). Still RC motors can be a good choice for a middrive if driven fast, which means a high reduction ratio.

Gearing a middrive: http://endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/G ... _mid_motor

List of people here who try this conversion:

in order of appearance
bob
with pics of his mounted heatsink here: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=45245&start=135#p672235

mr.electric
pics starting here: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=45245&start=135#p671774

studebiker
with some issues and useful explanation about disassembly here viewtopic.php?f=28&t=45245&start=210#p678511

whiplash
his new build thread: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=46568&p=681062#p680899

[spinningmagnets]
who to shows us how it works using a MAC motor viewtopic.php?f=28&t=45245&start=450#p719603 (work in progress)

Link to the geared Hubmotors wiki page: http://endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/E ... _Hubmotors
Edited by crossbreak on Sun Mar 31, 2013 11:27 am.
User avatar
crossbreak
100 MW
100 MW
 
Posts: 2807
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 11:20 am
Location: Germany

Revision 19: Re: Converting a hubmotor to a middrivemotor

Postby crossbreak » Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:28 pm

This Post will be updated frequently to summarize progress


the above version of the conversion mod was abandoned, since I found a more simple version:


[color=#FF0000]If one removes the key (not the one in the explosion view) from the stator mount, the axle can rotate and there is no need for any additional bearings. This also enables the option to use both ends of the shaft. This way it can be used as a Jackshaft without using a freewheel crank[/color] Explanation what this does can be found in the wiki: http://endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/E ... figuration .

This new mod starts on page 3. I wrote a pseudo How-To for the MAC motor on page 8.
spinningmagnets writes a step-by-step how-to on page 19: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=45245&start=450#p719603 (work in progress)


The axle has to shimmed right to axially align both rotor and planet carrier. How this is exactly done for the MAC will be posted here soon. mr.electric had issues which maybe induced by bad alignment, hopefully we will know more about this soon. If you do this conversion, you should buy some shims (12 and 15mm inn dia) for alignment.
remove_key.jpg

explosion_2.png


my first Heatbridge /Thermal Bridge:
Image
Image

This pic from page 10 show how a heatsink for the stator could look like. thx bob for the pic. there are more if you look at page 10. This way the available continuous output power must be more than 4 of times the original (ie the MAC can output about 1800Watts, a small 250W bafang can do almost 1000W continuously):

Image

Pic that shows the turning directions from page 14
Image

Drive system with dual-freewheel Jackshaft -> much better drive-ability and no more need for crappy freewheel cranks
Wiki article: http://endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/E ... eel_Config:
Image
Image

I use 18T 11/128 motor sprocket, it just got worn out very quick. People, dont use 9- 10- and 11speed chains. I made this fault, I can only recommend to go for 7 or 8-speed and 3/32" chain systems since there is NO SUPPLY for good motor sprockets for these 11/128" chains



Speeding up the Motor to get more continuous power

The less magnets a motor has and the thinner the laminations are, the faster we can spin it to gain a good efficiency an thus continous output power. power loss/ heat /inefficiency (=all the same) limits output power in the first place. On the other side, more poles means more torque for a motor of the same size.

Dues these facts, we can compare middrive motors (there is a much better and detailed list by miles i can't find ATM):
The Bafang BPM has less magnet poles (16) and can be speeded up further than the MAC (32poles, it has equal 0.5mm laminations, the BMC has 0.33mm). The BMC is there for a good choise for upspeeding, but it's more expensive. The Bafang BPM has a prospective advantage in Power/Weight ratio over the MAC due this, the BPM and the BMC should be about equal. Compared to Inrunners like the GNG-V1 (8 magnet poles, with equal 0.5mm laminations, thx to christerljung we know that) the GNG could get an even better power/weight-ratio if geared and volted right...A RC motor like the turnigy 80-100 or the CA120-70 and other low induction motors gain a even higher power/weight ratio - since they are available with 0.2mm thin laminations, just for comparison. BUT low induction motors have special requirements and often fry controllers, if not treated right (which is really hard as I had to experience). Still RC motors can be a good choice for a middrive if driven fast, which means a high reduction ratio.

Gearing a middrive: http://endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/G ... _mid_motor

List of people here who try this conversion:

in order of appearance
bob
with pics of his mounted heatsink here: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=45245&start=135#p672235

mr.electric
pics starting here: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=45245&start=135#p671774

studebiker
with some issues and useful explanation about disassembly here viewtopic.php?f=28&t=45245&start=210#p678511

whiplash
his new build thread: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=46568&p=681062#p680899

[spinningmagnets]
who to shows us how it works using a MAC motor viewtopic.php?f=28&t=45245&start=450#p719603 (work in progress)

Link to the geared Hubmotors wiki page: http://endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/E ... _Hubmotors
Edited by crossbreak on Sun Mar 31, 2013 11:11 am.
User avatar
crossbreak
100 MW
100 MW
 
Posts: 2807
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 11:20 am
Location: Germany

Revision 18: Re: Converting a hubmotor to a middrivemotor

Postby crossbreak » Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:28 pm

This Post will be updated frequently to summarize progress


the above version of the conversion mod was abandoned, since I found a more simple version:


[color=#FF0000]If one removes the key (not the one in the explosion view) from the stator mount, the axle can rotate and there is no need for any additional bearings. This also enables the option to use both ends of the shaft. This way it can be used as a Jackshaft without using a freewheel crank[/color] Explanation what this does can be found in the wiki: http://endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/E ... figuration . This new mod starts on page 3. I wrote a pseudo How-To for the MAC motor on page 8.
The axle has to shimmed right to axially align both rotor and planet carrier. How this is exactly done for the MAC will be posted here soon. mr.electric had issues which maybe induced by bad alignment, hopefully we will know more about this soon. If you do this conversion, you should buy some shims (12 and 15mm inn dia) for alignment.
remove_key.jpg

explosion_2.png


my first Heatbridge /Thermal Bridge:
Image
Image

This pic from page 10 show how a heatsink for the stator could look like. thx bob for the pic. there are more if you look at page 10. This way the available continuous output power must be more than 4 of times the original (ie the MAC can output about 1800Watts, a small 250W bafang can do almost 1000W continuously):

Image

Pic that shows the turning directions from page 14
Image

Drive system with dual-freewheel Jackshaft -> much better drive-ability and no more need for crappy freewheel cranks
Wiki article: http://endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/E ... eel_Config:
Image
Image

I use 18T 11/128 motor sprocket, it just got worn out very quick. People, dont use 9- 10- and 11speed chains. I made this fault, I can only recommend to go for 7 or 8-speed and 3/32" chain systems since there is NO SUPPLY for good motor sprockets for these 11/128" chains



Speeding up the Motor to get more continuous power

The Bafang BPM has less magnet poles (16) and can be speeded up further than the MAC (32poles, it has equal 0.5mm laminations, the BMC has 0.33mm). The Bafang BPM has a prospective advantage in Power/Weight ratio due this. Compared to Inrunners like the GNG-V1 (8 magnet poles, with equal 0.5mm laminations, thx to christerljung we know that) the GNG could get an even better power/weight-ratio if geared and volted right...A RC motor like the turnigy 80-100 or the CA120-70 and other low induction motors gain a even higher power/weight ratio - since they are available with 0.2mm thin laminations, just for comparison. BUT low induction motors have special requirements and often fry controllers, if not treated right (which is really hard as I had to experience).

Gearing a middrive: http://endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/G ... _mid_motor

List of people here who try this conversion:

in order of appearance
bob
with pics of his mounted heatsink here: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=45245&start=135#p672235

mr.electric
pics starting here: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=45245&start=135#p671774

studebiker
with some issues and useful explanation about disassembly here viewtopic.php?f=28&t=45245&start=210#p678511

whiplash
his new build thread: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=46568&p=681062#p680899

Link to the geared Hubmotors wiki page: http://endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/E ... _Hubmotors
Edited by crossbreak on Sun Feb 24, 2013 8:45 pm.
User avatar
crossbreak
100 MW
100 MW
 
Posts: 2807
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 11:20 am
Location: Germany

Revision 17: Re: Converting a hubmotor to a middrivemotor

Postby crossbreak » Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:28 pm

This Post will be updated frequently to summarize progress


the above version of the conversion mod was abandoned, since I found a more simple version:


[color=#FF0000]If one removes the key (not the one in the explosion view) from the stator mount, the axle can rotate and there is no need for any additional bearings. This also enables the option to use both ends of the shaft. This way it can be used as a Jackshaft without using a freewheel crank[/color] Explanation what this does can be found in the wiki: http://endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/E ... figuration (This new mod starts on page 3)
remove_key.jpg

explosion_2.png


Made a pseudo How-to for the MAC on page 8, pseudo since I do not own a MAC):
Image
Image


my first Heatbridge /Thermal Bridge:
Image
Image

This pic from page 10 show how a heatsink for the stator could look like. thx bob for the pic. there are more if you look at page 10. This way the available continuous output power must be more than 4 of times the original (ie the MAC can output about 1800Watts, a small 250W bafang can do almost 1000W continuously):

Image

Pic that shows the turning directions from page 14
Image

Speeding up the Motor to get more continuous power

The Bafang BPM has less magnet poles (16) and can be speeded up further than the MAC (32poles, it has equal 0.5mm laminations, the BMC has 0.33mm). The Bafang BPM has a prospective advantage in Power/Weight ratio due this. Compared to Inrunners like the GNG-V1 (8 magnet poles, with equal 0.5mm laminations, thx to christerljung we know that) the GNG could get an even better power/weight-ratio if geared and volted right...A RC motor like the turnigy 80-100 or the CA120-70 and other low induction motors gain a even higher power/weight ratio - since they are available with 0.2mm thin laminations, just for comparison. BUT low induction motors have special requirements and often fry controllers, if not treated right (which is really hard as I had to experience).

Gearing a middrive: http://endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/G ... _mid_motor

The axle has to shimmed right to axially align both rotor and planet carrier. How this is exactly done for the MAC will be posted here soon. mr.electric had issues which maybe induced by bad alignment, hopefully we will know more about this soon. If you do this conversion, you should buy some shims (12 and 15mm inn dia) for alignment.

List of people here who try this conversion:

in order of appearance
bob
with pics of his mounted heatsink here: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=45245&start=135#p672235

mr.electric
pics starting here: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=45245&start=135#p671774

studebiker
with some issues and useful explanation about disassembly here viewtopic.php?f=28&t=45245&start=210#p678511

whiplash
his new build thread: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=46568&p=681062#p680899

Link to the geared Hubmotors wiki page: http://endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/E ... _Hubmotors

I use 18T 11/128 motor sprocket, it just got worn out very quick. People, dont use 9- 10- and 11speed chains. I made this fault, I can only recommend to go for 7 or 8-speed and 3/32" chain systems since there is NO SUPPLY for good motor sprockets for these 11/128" chains
Edited by crossbreak on Tue Feb 12, 2013 2:39 am.
User avatar
crossbreak
100 MW
100 MW
 
Posts: 2807
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 11:20 am
Location: Germany

Revision 16: Re: Converting a hubmotor to a middrivemotor

Postby crossbreak » Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:28 pm

This Post will be updated frequently to summarize progress


the above version of the conversion mod was abandoned, since I found a more simple version:


[color=#FF0000]If one removes the key (not the one in the explosion view) from the stator mount, the axle can rotate and there is no need for any additional bearings. This also enables the option to use both ends of the shaft. This way it can be used as a Jackshaft without using a freewheel crank[/color] (This new mod starts on page 3)
remove_key.jpg

explosion_2.png


Made a pseudo How-to for the MAC on page 8, pseudo since I do not own a MAC):
Image
Image


my first Heatbridge /Thermal Bridge:
Image
Image

This pic from page 10 show how a heatsink for the stator could look like. thx bob for the pic. there are more if you look at page 10. This way the available continuous output power must be more than 4 of times the original (ie the MAC can output about 1800Watts, a small 250W bafang can do almost 1000W continuously):

Image

Pic that shows the turning directions from page 14
Image

Speeding up the Motor to get more continuous power

The Bafang BPM has less magnet poles (16) and can be speeded up further than the MAC (32poles, it has equal 0.5mm laminations, the BMC has 0.33mm). The Bafang BPM has a prospective advantage in Power/Weight ratio due this. Compared to Inrunners like the GNG-V1 (8 magnet poles, with equal 0.5mm laminations, thx to christerljung we know that) the GNG could get an even better power/weight-ratio if geared and volted right...A RC motor like the turnigy 80-100 or the CA120-70 and other low induction motors gain a even higher power/weight ratio - since they are available with 0.2mm thin laminations, just for comparison. BUT low induction motors have special requirements and often fry controllers, if not treated right (which is really hard as I had to experience).

Gearing a middrive: http://endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/G ... _mid_motor

The axle has to shimmed right to axially align both rotor and planet carrier. How this is exactly done for the MAC will be posted here soon. mr.electric had an issues which maybe induced by bad alignment, hopefully we will know more about this soon.

List of people here who try this conversion:

in order of appearance
bob
with pics of his mounted heatsink here: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=45245&start=135#p672235

mr.electric
pics starting here: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=45245&start=135#p671774

studebiker
with some issues and useful explanation about disassembly here viewtopic.php?f=28&t=45245&start=210#p678511

whiplash
his new build thread: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=46568&p=681062#p680899

Link to the geared Hubmotors wiki page: http://endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/E ... _Hubmotors

I use 18T 11/128 motor sprocket, it just got worn out very quick. People, dont use 9- 10- and 11speed chains. I made this fault, I can only recommend to go for 3/32" chain systems since there is NO SUPPLY for good motor sprockets for these 11/128" chains
Edited by crossbreak on Mon Feb 04, 2013 11:07 pm.
User avatar
crossbreak
100 MW
100 MW
 
Posts: 2807
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 11:20 am
Location: Germany

Revision 15: Re: Converting a hubmotor to a middrivemotor

Postby crossbreak » Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:28 pm

This Post will be updated frequently to summarize progress


the above version of the conversion mod was abandoned, since I found a more simple version:


[color=#FF0000]If one removes the key (not the one in the explosion view) from the stator mount, the axle can rotate and there is no need for any additional bearings. This also enables the option to use both ends of the shaft. This way it can be used as a Jackshaft without using a freewheel crank[/color] (This new mod starts on page 3)
remove_key.jpg

explosion_2.png


Made a pseudo How-to for the MAC on page 8, pseudo since I do not own a MAC):
Image
Image


my first Heatbridge /Thermal Bridge:
Image
Image

This pic from page 10 show how a heatsink for the stator could look like. thx bob for the pic. there are more if you look at page 10. This way the available continuous output power must be more than 4 of times the original (ie the MAC can output about 1800Watts, a small 250W bafang can do almost 1000W continuously):

Image

Pic that shows the turning directions from page 14
Image

Speeding up the Motor to get more continuous power

The Bafang BPM has less magnet poles (16) and can be speeded up further than the MAC (32poles, it has equal 0.5mm laminations, the BMC has 0.33mm). The Bafang BPM has a prospective advantage in Power/Weight ratio due this. Compared to Inrunners like the GNG-V1 (8 magnet poles, with equal 0.5mm laminations, thx to christerljung we know that) the GNG could get an even better power/weight-ratio if geared and volted right...A RC motor like the turnigy 80-100 or the CA120-70 and other low induction motors gain a even higher power/weight ratio - since they are available with 0.2mm thin laminations, just for comparison. BUT low induction motors have special requirements and often fry controllers, if not treated right (which is really hard as I had to experience).

Gearing a middrive: http://endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/G ... _mid_motor

The axle has to shimmed right to axially align both rotor and planet carrier. How this is exactly done for the MAC will be posted here soon. mr.electric had an issues which maybe induced by bad alignment, hopefully we will know more about this soon.

List of people here who try this conversion:

in order of appearance
bob
with pics of his mounted heatsink here: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=45245&start=135#p672235

mr.electric
pics starting here: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=45245&start=135#p671774

studebiker
with some issues and useful explanation about disassembly here viewtopic.php?f=28&t=45245&start=210#p678511

whiplash
his new build thread: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=46568&p=681062#p680899

Link to the geared Hubmotors wiki page: http://endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/E ... _Hubmotors

I use 18T 11/128 motor sprocket, it just got worn out very quick. People, dont use 9- 10- and 11speed chains. I made this fault, I can only recommend to go for 3/32" chain systems since there is NO SUPPLY for good motor sprockets for these 11/128" chains
Edited by crossbreak on Mon Feb 04, 2013 10:51 pm.
User avatar
crossbreak
100 MW
100 MW
 
Posts: 2807
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 11:20 am
Location: Germany

Revision 14: Re: Converting a hubmotor to a middrivemotor

Postby crossbreak » Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:28 pm

This Post will be updated frequently to summarize progress


the above version of the conversion mod was abandoned, since I found a more simple version:


[color=#FF0000]If one removes the key (not the one in the explosion view) from the stator mount, the axle can rotate and there is no need for any additional bearings. This also enables the option to use both ends of the shaft. This way it can be used as a Jackshaft without using a freewheel crank[/color] (This new mod starts on page 3)
remove_key.jpg

explosion_2.png


Made a pseudo How-to for the MAC on page 8, pseudo since I do not own a MAC):
Image
Image


my first Heatbridge /Thermal Bridge:
Image
Image

This pic from page 10 show how a heatsink for the stator could look like. thx bob for the pic. there are more if you look at page 10. This way the available continuous output power must be more than 4 of times the original (ie the MAC can output about 1800Watts, a small 250W bafang can do almost 1000W continuously):

Image

Pic that shows the turning directions from page 14
Image

Speeding up the Motor to get more continuous power

The Bafang BPM has less magnet poles (16) and can be speeded up further than the MAC (32poles, it has equal 0.5mm laminations, the BMC has 0.33mm). The Bafang BPM has a prospective advantage in Power/Weight ratio due this. Compared to Inrunners like the GNG-V1 (8 magnet poles, with equal 0.5mm laminations, thx to christerljung we know that) the GNG could get an even better power/weight-ratio if geared and volted right...A RC motor like the turnigy 80-100 or the CA120-70 and other low induction motors gain a even higher power/weight ratio - since they are available with 0.2mm thin laminations, just for comparison. BUT low induction motors have special requirements and often fry controllers, if not treated right (which is really hard as I had to experience).

Gearing a middrive: http://endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/G ... _mid_motor

The axle has to shimmed right to axially align both rotor and planet carrier. How this is exactly done for the MAC will be posted here soon. mr.electric had an issues which maybe induced by bad alignment, hopefully we will know more about this soon.

List of people here who try this conversion:

in order of appearance
bob
with pics of his mounted heatsink here: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=45245&start=135#p672235

mr.electric
pics starting here: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=45245&start=135#p671774

studebiker
with some issues and useful explanation about disassembly here viewtopic.php?f=28&t=45245&start=210#p678511

whiplash
his new build thread: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=46568&p=681062#p680899

Link to the geared Hubmotors wiki page: http://endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/E ... _Hubmotors

I use 18T 11/128 motor sprocket, it just got worn out very quick. People, dont use 9- 10- and 11speed chains. I made this fault, I can only recommend to go for 3/32" chain systems since there is NO SUPPLY for good motor sprockets for these 11/128" chains
Edited by crossbreak on Mon Feb 04, 2013 10:19 pm.
User avatar
crossbreak
100 MW
100 MW
 
Posts: 2807
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 11:20 am
Location: Germany

Revision 13: Re: Converting a hubmotor to a middrivemotor

Postby crossbreak » Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:28 pm

This Post will be updated frequently to summarize progress


the above version of the conversion mod was abandoned, since I found a more simple version:


[color=#FF0000]If one removes the key (not the one in the explosion view) from the stator mount, the axle can rotate and there is no need for any additional bearings. This also enables the option to use both ends of the shaft. This way it can be used as a Jackshaft without using a freewheel crank[/color] (This new mod starts on page 3)
explosion.png

remove_key.jpg

Made a pseudo How-to for the MAC on page 8, pseudo since I do not own a MAC):
Image
Image


my first Heatbridge /Thermal Bridge:
Image
Image

This pic from page 10 show how a heatsink for the stator could look like. thx bob for the pic. there are more if you look at page 10. This way the available continuous output power must be more than 4 of times the original (ie the MAC can output about 1800Watts, a small 250W bafang can do almost 1000W continuously):

Image

Pic that shows the turning directions from page 14
Image

Speeding up the Motor to get more continuous power

The Bafang BPM has less magnet poles (16) and can be speeded up further than the MAC (32poles, it has equal 0.5mm laminations, the BMC has 0.33mm). The Bafang BPM has a prospective advantage in Power/Weight ratio due this. Compared to Inrunners like the GNG-V1 (8 magnet poles, with equal 0.5mm laminations, thx to christerljung we know that) the GNG could get an even better power/weight-ratio if geared and volted right...A RC motor like the turnigy 80-100 or the CA120-70 and other low induction motors gain a even higher power/weight ratio - since they are available with 0.2mm thin laminations, just for comparison. BUT low induction motors have special requirements and often fry controllers, if not treated right (which is really hard as I had to experience).

Gearing a middrive: http://endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/G ... _mid_motor

The axle has to shimmed right to axially align both rotor and planet carrier. How this is exactly done for the MAC will be posted here soon. mr.electric had an issues which maybe induced by bad alignment, hopefully we will know more about this soon.

List of people here who try this conversion:

in order of appearance
bob
with pics of his mounted heatsink here: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=45245&start=135#p672235

mr.electric
pics starting here: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=45245&start=135#p671774

studebiker
with some issues and useful explanation about disassembly here viewtopic.php?f=28&t=45245&start=210#p678511

whiplash
his new build thread: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=46568&p=681062#p680899

Link to the geared Hubmotors wiki page: http://endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/E ... _Hubmotors

I use 18T 11/128 motor sprocket, it just got worn out very quick. People, dont use 9- 10- and 11speed chains. I made this fault, I can only recommend to go for 3/32" chain systems since there is NO SUPPLY for good motor sprockets for these 11/128" chains
Edited by crossbreak on Mon Feb 04, 2013 9:59 pm.
User avatar
crossbreak
100 MW
100 MW
 
Posts: 2807
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 11:20 am
Location: Germany

Revision 12: Re: Converting a hubmotor to a middrivemotor

Postby crossbreak » Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:28 pm

This Post will be updated frequently to summarize progress


the above version of the conversion mod was abandoned, since I found a more simple version:


[color=#FF0000]If one removes the key from the stator mount, there is no need for an additional bearing. This also enables the option to use both ends of the shaft. This way it can be used as a Jackshaft without using a freewheel crank[/color] (This new mod starts on page 3. Made a pseudo How-to for the MAC on page 8, pseudo since I do not own a MAC):
Image
Image


my first Heatbridge /Thermal Bridge:
Image
Image

This pic from page 10 show how a heatsink for the stator could look like. thx bob for the pic. there are more if you look at page 10. This way the available continuous output power must be more than 4 of times the original (ie the MAC can output about 1800Watts, a small 250W bafang can do almost 1000W continuously):

Image

Pic that shows the turning directions from page 14
Image

Speeding up the Motor to get more continuous power

The Bafang BPM has less magnet poles (16) and can be speeded up further than the MAC (32poles, it has equal 0.5mm laminations, the BMC has 0.33mm). The Bafang BPM has a prospective advantage in Power/Weight ratio due this. Compared to Inrunners like the GNG-V1 (8 magnet poles, with equal 0.5mm laminations, thx to christerljung we know that) the GNG could get an even better power/weight-ratio if geared and volted right...A RC motor like the turnigy 80-100 or the CA120-70 and other low induction motors gain a even higher power/weight ratio - since they are available with 0.2mm thin laminations, just for comparison. BUT low induction motors have special requirements and often fry controllers, if not treated right (which is really hard as I had to experience).

Gearing a middrive: http://endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/G ... _mid_motor

The axle has to shimmed right to axially align both rotor and planet carrier. How this is exactly done for the MAC will be posted here soon. mr.electric had an issues which maybe induced by bad alignment, hopefully we will know more about this soon.

List of people here who try this conversion:

in order of appearance
bob
with pics of his mounted heatsink here: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=45245&start=135#p672235

mr.electric
pics starting here: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=45245&start=135#p671774

studebiker
with some issues and useful explanation about disassembly here viewtopic.php?f=28&t=45245&start=210#p678511

whiplash
his new build thread: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=46568&p=681062#p680899

Link to the geared Hubmotors wiki page: http://endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/E ... _Hubmotors

I use 18T 11/128 motor sprocket, it just got worn out very quick. People, dont use 9- 10- and 11speed chains. I made this fault, I can only recommend to go for 3/32" chain systems since there is NO SUPPLY for good motor sprockets for these 11/128" chains
Edited by crossbreak on Mon Feb 04, 2013 9:31 pm.
User avatar
crossbreak
100 MW
100 MW
 
Posts: 2807
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 11:20 am
Location: Germany

Revision 11: Re: Converting a hubmotor to a middrivemotor

Postby crossbreak » Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:28 pm

This Post will be updated frequently to summarize progress


the above version of the conversion mod was abandoned, since I found a more simple version:


[color=#FF0000]If one removes the key from the stator mount, there is no need for an additional bearing. This also enables the option to use both ends of the shaft. This way it can be used as a Jackshaft without using a freewheel crank[/color] (This new mod starts on page 3. Made a pseudo How-to for the MAC on page 8, pseudo since I do not own a MAC):
Image
Image


my first Heatbridge /Thermal Bridge:
Image
Image

This pic from page 10 show how a heatsink for the stator could look like. thx bob for the pic. there are more if you look at page 10:

Image

Pic that shows the turning directions from page 14
Image

Speeding up the Motor to get more continuous power

The Bafang BPM has less magnet poles (16) and can be speeded up further than the MAC (32poles, it has equal 0.5mm laminations, the BMC has 0.33mm). The Bafang BPM has a prospective advantage in Power/Weight ratio due this. Compared to Inrunners like the GNG-V1 (8 magnet poles, with equal 0.5mm laminations, thx to christerljung we know that) the GNG could get an even better power/weight-ratio if geared and volted right...A RC motor like the turnigy 80-100 or the CA120-70 and other low induction motors gain a even higher power/weight ratio - since they are available with 0.2mm thin laminations, just for comparison. BUT low induction motors have special requirements and often fry controllers, if not treated right (which is really hard as I had to experience).

Gearing a middrive: http://endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/G ... _mid_motor

The axle has to shimmed right to axially align both rotor and planet carrier. How this is exactly done for the MAC will be posted here soon. mr.electric had an issues which maybe induced by bad alignment, hopefully we will know more about this soon.

List of people here who try this conversion:

in order of appearance
bob
with pics of his mounted heatsink here: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=45245&start=135#p672235

mr.electric
pics starting here: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=45245&start=135#p671774

studebiker
with some issues and useful explanation about disassembly here viewtopic.php?f=28&t=45245&start=210#p678511

whiplash
his new build thread: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=46568&p=681062#p680899

Link to the geared Hubmotors wiki page: http://endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/E ... _Hubmotors

I use 18T 11/128 motor sprocket, it just got worn out very quick. People, dont use 9- 10- and 11speed chains. I made this fault, I can only recommend to go for 3/32" chain systems since there is NO SUPPLY for good motor sprockets for these 11/128" chains
Edited by crossbreak on Thu Jan 31, 2013 6:10 pm.
User avatar
crossbreak
100 MW
100 MW
 
Posts: 2807
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 11:20 am
Location: Germany

Revision 10: Re: Converting a hubmotor to a middrivemotor

Postby crossbreak » Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:28 pm

This Post will be updated frequently to summarize progress




the above version of the conversion mod was abandoned, since I found a more simple version:





If one removes the key from the stator mount, there is no need for an additional bearing. This also enables the option to use both ends of the shaft. This way it can be used as a Jackshaft without using a freewheel crank (This new mod starts on page 3. Made a pseudo How-to for the MAC on page 8, pseudo since I do not own a MAC):

my first Heatbridge /Thermal Bridge:
Image
Image
Image

This pic from page 10 show how a heatsink for the stator could look like. thx bob for the pic. there are more if you look at page 10:

Image

Pic that shows the turning directions from page 14
Image


Speeding up the Motor to get more continuous power

The Bafang BPM has less magnet poles (16) and can be speeded up further than the MAC (32poles, it has equal 0.5mm laminations, the BMC has 0.33mm). The Bafang BPM has a prospective advantage in Power/Weight ratio due this. Compared to Inrunners like the GNG-V1 (8 magnet poles, with equal 0.5mm laminations, thx to christerljung we know that) the GNG could get an even better power/weight-ratio if geared and volted right...A RC motor like the turnigy 80-100 or the CA120-70 and other low induction motors gain a even higher power/weight ratio - since they are available with 0.2mm thin laminations, just for comparison. BUT low induction motors have special requirements and often fry controllers, if not treated right (which is really hard as I had to experience).

Gearing a middrive: http://endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/G ... _mid_motor

The axle has to shimmed right to axially align both rotor and planet carrier. How this is exactly done for the MAC will be posted here soon. mr.electric had an issues which maybe induced by bad alignment, hopefully we will know more about this soon.

List of people here who try this conversion:

in order of appearance
bob
with pics of his mounted heatsink here: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=45245&start=135#p672235

mr.electric
pics starting here: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=45245&start=135#p671774

studebiker
with some issues and useful explanation about disassembly here viewtopic.php?f=28&t=45245&start=210#p678511

whiplash
his new build thread: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=46568&p=681062#p680899

Link to the geared Hubmotors wiki page: http://endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/E ... _Hubmotors
Edited by crossbreak on Sat Jan 26, 2013 1:12 pm.
User avatar
crossbreak
100 MW
100 MW
 
Posts: 2807
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 11:20 am
Location: Germany

Revision 9: Re: Converting a hubmotor to a middrivemotor

Postby crossbreak » Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:28 pm

This Post will be updated frequently to summarize progress




the above version of the conversion mod was abandoned, since I found a more simple version:





If one removes the key from the stator mount, there is no need for an additional bearing. This also enables the option to use both ends of the shaft. This way it can be used as a Jackshaft without using a freewheel crank (This new mod starts on page 3. Made a pseudo How-to for the MAC on page 8, pseudo since I do not own a MAC):

Image

This pic from page 10 show how a heatsink for the stator could look like. thx bob for the pic. there are more if you look at page 10:

Image

Pic that shows the turning directions from page 14
Image


Speeding up the Motor to get more continuous power

The Bafang BPM has less magnet poles (16) and can be speeded up further than the MAC (32poles, it has equal 0.5mm laminations, the BMC has 0.33mm). The Bafang BPM has a prospective advantage in Power/Weight ratio due this. Compared to Inrunners like the GNG-V1 (8 magnet poles, with equal 0.5mm laminations, thx to christerljung we know that) the GNG could get an even better power/weight-ratio if geared and volted right...A RC motor like the turnigy 80-100 or the CA120-70 and other low induction motors gain a even higher power/weight ratio - since they are available with 0.2mm thin laminations, just for comparison. BUT low induction motors have special requirements and often fry controllers, if not treated right (which is really hard as I had to experience).

Gearing a middrive: http://endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/G ... _mid_motor

The axle has to shimmed right to axially align both rotor and planet carrier. How this is exactly done for the MAC will be posted here soon. mr.electric had an issues which maybe induced by bad alignment, hopefully we will know more about this soon.

List of people here who try this conversion:

in order of appearance
bob
with pics of his mounted heatsink here: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=45245&start=135#p672235

mr.electric
pics starting here: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=45245&start=135#p671774

studebiker
with some issues and useful explanation about disassembly here viewtopic.php?f=28&t=45245&start=210#p678511

whiplash
his new build thread: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=46568&p=681062#p680899

Link to the geared Hubmotors wiki page: http://endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/E ... _Hubmotors
Edited by crossbreak on Sat Dec 29, 2012 10:43 pm.
User avatar
crossbreak
100 MW
100 MW
 
Posts: 2807
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 11:20 am
Location: Germany

Revision 8: Re: Converting a hubmotor to a middrivemotor

Postby crossbreak » Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:28 pm

This Post will be updated frequently to summarize progress




the above version of the conversion mod was abandoned, since I found a more simple version:





If one removes the key from the stator mount, there is no need for an additional bearing. This also enables the option to use both ends of the shaft. This way it can be used as a Jackshaft without using a freewheel crank (This new mod starts on page 3. Made a pseudo How-to for the MAC on page 8, pseudo since I do not own a MAC):

Image

This pic from page 10 show how a heatsink for the stator could look like. thx bob for the pic. there are more if you look at page 10:

Image

Pic that shows the turning directions from page 14
Image


Speeding up the Motor to get more continuous power

The Bafang BPM has less magnet poles (16) and can be speeded up further than the MAC (32poles, it has equal 0.5mm laminations, the BMC has 0.33mm). The Bafang BPM has a prospective advantage in Power/Weight ratio due this. Compared to the GNG-V1 (8 magnet poles, with equal 0.5mm laminations, thx to christerljung we know that) the GNG could get an even better power/weight-ratio if geared and volted right... Gearing a middrive: http://endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/G ... _mid_motor

The axle has to shimmed right to axially align both rotor and planet carrier. How this is exactly done for the MAC will be posted here soon. mr.electric had an issues which maybe induced by bad alignment, hopefully we will know more about this soon.

List of people here who try this conversion:

in order of appearance
bob
with pics of his mounted heatsink here: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=45245&start=135#p672235

mr.electric
pics starting here: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=45245&start=135#p671774

studebiker
with some issues and useful explanation about disassembly here viewtopic.php?f=28&t=45245&start=210#p678511

whiplash
his new build thread: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=46568&p=681062#p680899
Edited by crossbreak on Fri Dec 28, 2012 1:01 am.
User avatar
crossbreak
100 MW
100 MW
 
Posts: 2807
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 11:20 am
Location: Germany

Revision 7: Re: Converting a hubmotor to a middrivemotor

Postby crossbreak » Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:28 pm

This Post will be updated frequently to summarize progress




the above version of the conversion mod was abandoned, since I found a more simple version:





If one removes the key from the stator mount, there is no need for an additional bearing. This also enables the option to use both ends of the shaft. This way it can be used as a Jackshaft without using a freewheel crank (This new mod starts on page 3. Made a pseudo How-to for the MAC on page 8, pseudo since I do not own a MAC):

Image

This pic from page 10 show how a heatsink for the stator could look like. thx bob for the pic. there are more if you look at page 10:

Image

Pic that shows the turning directions from page 14
Image


Speeding up the Motor to get more continuous power

The Bafang BPM has less magnet poles (16) and can be speeded up further than the MAC (32poles, it has equal 0.5mm laminations, the BMC has 0.33mm). The Bafang BPM has a prospective advantage in Power/Weight ratio due this. Compared to the GNG-V1 (8 magnet poles, with equal 0.5mm laminations, thx to christerljung we know that) the GNG could get an even better power/weight-ratio if geared and volted right... Gearing a middrive: http://endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/G ... _mid_motor

The axle has to shimmed right to axially align both rotor and planet carrier. How this is exactly done for the MAC will be posted here soon. mr.electric had an issues which maybe induced by bad alignment, hopefully we will know more about this soon.
Edited by crossbreak on Thu Dec 27, 2012 11:23 pm.
User avatar
crossbreak
100 MW
100 MW
 
Posts: 2807
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 11:20 am
Location: Germany

Revision 6: Re: Converting a hubmotor to a middrivemotor

Postby crossbreak » Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:28 pm

This Post will be updated frequently to summarize progress

Warning! This post contains spoilers you can not skip :lol:


the above version of the conversion mod was abandoned, since I found a more simple version:
If one removes the key from the stator mount, there is no need for an additional bearing. This also enables the option to use both ends of the shaft. This way it can be used as a Jackshaft without using a freewheel crank (This new mod starts on page 3. Made a pseudo How-to for the MAC on page 8, pseudo since I do not own a MAC):


Image

This pic from page 10 show how a heatsink for the stator could look like. thx bob for the pic. there are more if you look at page 10:

Image

Pic that shows the turning directions from page 14
Image


Speeding up the Motor to get more continuous power
The Bafang BPM has less magnet poles (16) and can be speeded up further than the MAC (32poles, it has equal 0.5mm laminations, the BMC has 0.33mm). The Bafang BPM has a prospective advantage in Power/Weight ratio due this. Compared to the GNG-V1 (8 magnet poles, with equal 0.5mm laminations, thx to christerljung we know that) the GNG could get an even better power/weight-ratio if geared and volted right... I miss the button to simply link wiki stuff here :cry:Gearing a middrive: http://endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/G ... _mid_motor
Edited by crossbreak on Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:55 pm.
User avatar
crossbreak
100 MW
100 MW
 
Posts: 2807
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 11:20 am
Location: Germany

Revision 5: Re: Converting a hubmotor to a middrivemotor

Postby crossbreak » Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:28 pm

This Post will be updated frequently to summarize progress

Warning! This post contains spoilers you can not skip :lol:


the above version of the conversion mod was abandoned, since I found a more simple version:
If one removes the key from the stator mount, there is no need for an additional bearing. This also enables the option to use both ends of the shaft. This way it can be used as a Jackshaft without using a freewheel crank (This new mod starts on page 3. Made a pseudo How-to for the MAC on page 8, pseudo since I do not own a MAC):


Image

This pic from page 10 show how a heatsink for the stator could look like. thx bob for the pic. there are more if you look at page 10:

Image

Pic that shows the turning directions from page 14
Image


Speeding up the Motor to get more continuous power
The Bafang BPM has less magnet poles (16) and can be speeded up further than the MAC (32poles, it has equal 0.5mm laminations, the BMC has 0.33mm). The Bafang BPM has a prospective advantage in Power/Weight ratio due this. Compared to the GNG-V1 (8 magnet poles, with equal 0.5mm laminations, thx to christerljung we know that) the GNG could get an even better power/weight-ratio if geared and volted right... I miss the button to simply link wiki stuff here :cry:Gearing a middrive: http://endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/E ... s_Middrive
Edited by crossbreak on Mon Dec 17, 2012 8:00 pm.
User avatar
crossbreak
100 MW
100 MW
 
Posts: 2807
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 11:20 am
Location: Germany

Revision 4: Re: Converting a hubmotor to a middrivemotor

Postby crossbreak » Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:28 pm

This Post will be updated frequently to summarize progress

Warning! This post contains spoilers you can not skip :lol:


the above version of the conversion mod was abandoned, since I found a more simple version:
If one removes the key from the stator mount, there is no need for an additional bearing. This also enables the option to use both ends of the shaft. This way it can be used as a Jackshaft without using a freewheel crank (This new mod starts on page 3. Made a pseudo How-to for the MAC on page 8, pseudo since I do not own a MAC):


Image

This pic from page 10 show how a heatsink for the stator could look like. thx bob for the pic. there are more if you look at page 10:

Image

Pic that shows the turning directions from page 14
Image

The Bafang BPM has less magnet poles (16) and can be speeded up further than the MAC (32poles, it has equal 0.5mm laminations). The Bafang BPM has a prospective advantage in Power/Weight ratio due this. Compared to the GNG-V1 (8 magnet poles, with equal 0.5mm laminations) the GNG could get an even better power/weight-ratio if geared right.
Edited by crossbreak on Mon Dec 17, 2012 7:29 pm.
User avatar
crossbreak
100 MW
100 MW
 
Posts: 2807
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 11:20 am
Location: Germany

Revision 3: Re: Converting a hubmotor to a middrivemotor

Postby crossbreak » Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:28 pm

This Post will be updated frequently to summarize progress

Warning! This post contains spoilers you can not skip :lol:


the above version of the conversion mod was abandoned, since I found a more simple version:
If one removes the key from the stator mount, there is no need for an additional bearing. This also enables the option to use both ends of the shaft. This way it can be used as a Jackshaft without using a freewheel crank (This new mod starts on page 3. Made a pseudo How-to for the MAC on page 8, pseudo since I do not own a MAC):


Image

This pic from page 10 show how a heatsink for the stator could look like, thx bob for the pic, there are more if you look at page 10:

Image

Pic that shows the turning directions from page 14
Image
Edited by crossbreak on Mon Dec 17, 2012 6:53 pm.
User avatar
crossbreak
100 MW
100 MW
 
Posts: 2807
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 11:20 am
Location: Germany

Revision 2: Re: Converting a hubmotor to a middrivemotor

Postby crossbreak » Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:28 pm

the above version of the conversion mod was abandoned, since I found a more simple version:
If one removes the key from the stator mount, there is no need for an additional bearing. This also enables the option to use both ends of the shaft.


This new mod starts on page 3.
Edited by crossbreak on Mon Nov 19, 2012 9:14 am.
User avatar
crossbreak
100 MW
100 MW
 
Posts: 2807
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 11:20 am
Location: Germany



Return to E-Bike Non-hub Motor Drives

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], joshuagore and 13 guests