motor dosent run

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xlzeo   10 W

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motor dosent run

Post by xlzeo » Dec 25 2012 10:23am

hey evryone,
my electric bike is exhausting me, i am really starting to think throw them to the garbage, i hope you can help me figure it out
i have golden motor magic pie 3 front motor
IMG_0349.JPG
Chinese controller i bought on ebay ( 48v 1500w , ID: HS4815B8U3-SH01)
IMG_0350.JPG
Life4po 48v 12ah battrey

everything worked great i even ride my bike for 2-3 weeks, till today, i hooked everthing up for a ride.
turn it on but nathing happen when i twist the thotle i get no respond.

i have checked:
1. wattmeter is hooked up and it shows 53v on the battrey witch look fine
2. i tried to run it in self learning mode to see if the motor is ok, it is does the little movments but it isnt spining like it should
3. i have cheacked all the connectors to see if something has disconnected and everything looks good

what can case the problem, what should i check more?, hope you guys can advise and help reslove that

best regards

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Re: motor dosent run

Post by miro13car » Dec 25 2012 1:53pm

So it is not the one Magic with internal controller?
maybe hall sensors inside your MagicPie failed?
I presume you connected it every wire exactely like it was originally.
do search for MagicPie o ES.

xlzeo   10 W

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Re: motor dosent run

Post by xlzeo » Dec 25 2012 4:18pm

miro13car wrote:So it is not the one Magic with internal controller?
maybe hall sensors inside your MagicPie failed?
I presume you connected it every wire exactely like it was originally.
do search for MagicPie o ES.
after double check i have recharged the battrey and , wo hooo its working
but its wired the wattematter showed me 53v anyone have any idea why its fake? is it not accurate?
thanks

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Jeremy Harris   10 GW

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Re: motor dosent run

Post by Jeremy Harris » Dec 25 2012 4:27pm

It may be that the voltage drops with the flat battery as soon as there is any load, causing either the controller low voltage cut out to activate os perhaps the battery BMS low voltage cut out to operate.

Was the meter connected all the time, or only when you were testing the battery voltage with no load?
Please ask questions on the forum, rather than by PM, as it helps others and you'll get a better range of answers.

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Re: motor dosent run

Post by xlzeo » Dec 25 2012 4:32pm

the wattmeter is part of the system he is connected all the time

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wesnewell   100 GW

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Re: motor dosent run

Post by wesnewell » Dec 25 2012 4:32pm

There are several possibilities. A low cell in battery pack caused bms to shut down. Charging it brought that cell back above cutoff. If that was the case, you should leave it charging overnight to get a better balance. LVC in watt meter or controller is set to high. Hard to say without knowing details of your system.
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xlzeo   10 W

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Re: motor dosent run

Post by xlzeo » Dec 26 2012 6:48am

wesnewell wrote:There are several possibilities. A low cell in battery pack caused bms to shut down. Charging it brought that cell back above cutoff. If that was the case, you should leave it charging overnight to get a better balance. LVC in watt meter or controller is set to high. Hard to say without knowing details of your system.
when it worked the cabels where hooked motor to controller: is battrey(black to black - red to red + the middle red is suposse to turn on the controller, motor blue to blue, green to green , yellow to yellow, hall senors each color to matched, e-abs 2 blue wires matched.
and when it worked if i have activate the self study mode (2 white wires connected to each other), it spam few times and then spin)

now when it dosent work, same cables connected and when i connect without the self study its not working at all even when use the torttle
and when i hook the self study its spam few times like it should and the it dosent spin like it should it just stop

there is few cables i dont know what to do with them they are unpluged at the moment , mayb the sullotion is in those cables and i dont know that

cables are unplauged are :
yellow- sepouse to be break
blue, green , red - anti theft
black, red- anti theft
i have no idea what those are for and how the anti theft working and how it should hook up, mayb some one of you guys can advise me

it really drives me crazy

its not working again

i cant figure it out

not seems like the battrey problem becuase with other battrey it make same thing

those are the wiring instructions i have from seller:

1.)Power cables: big red + big black
2.) Electric Door Lock Cable: middle red
3.)Motor cables: big yellow + big green + big blue
4.)Hall cables: small red, small black, small yellow, small green, small blue
5.)Reverser cables: small red + small blue + small black
6.)Speed cables: blue(high speed)+ black + +gray(low speed)
7.)Brake-hi cable: yellow
8.)Brake-low cable: yellow + black
9.)Anti-theft cables:Red(Positive) + Black(power) Red(E-Start) + Blue(Motor Lock Signal) + Green(Motor Lock)
10.)E-ABS: two blue cables matched
11.)Cruise: two Gray cables connecting together.
12.)Self-study cable: two white cables with black plugs)

Install Guide:

1.) Controller's plug must be connected tight. Controller power's positive & negative must be connected right.

2.)Motor auto recognized mode: After connecting the power cables, reversing cables, braking cables, connect the self-study cables(white), open the dog lock, enable the motor to be auto recognized statement. If the motor runs reverse, then turn the reversing to make the motor runs right. when running the motor under the controller-recognize-motor mode for 10s, plug out the self-study plugs, then the motor auto recognized mode is set.

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dogman dan   100 GW

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Re: motor dosent run

Post by dogman dan » Dec 26 2012 7:43am

As always, your most likely problem is a bad plug, either to the 5 halls wires or the three big power wires to the motor.

Thing is, they look ok, but aren't. One or more of the contacts can be backed out of the plug housing just enough to make intermittent contact. Viola! she runs, she don't run, seemingly randomly. Look very close, and actually see if those plugs are ok first.

After that, a battery issue rears it's ugly head. Your battery is way too small for your motor and controller. You have 1500w, so I'm assuming that means it's a 30 amps controller. Your battery is likely to be ideal for a 15-20 amps controller. The battery is likely to get very unbalanced every ride as a result. So you will need to leave it plugged into the charger pretty much all times you aren't actually riding it, so it can have the time to balance.

Worst case, you have a weak cell in the pack that died already. That would mean the remaining cells in that cell group have to work even harder, and typically kick the bucket fairly quick.

Assuming your battery is a 16 cell lifepo4, it should be charging to about 56-58v. 53v is quite possibly only partialy charged.

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Re: motor dosent run

Post by xlzeo » Dec 26 2012 8:32am

dogman wrote:As always, your most likely problem is a bad plug, either to the 5 halls wires or the three big power wires to the motor.

Thing is, they look ok, but aren't. One or more of the contacts can be backed out of the plug housing just enough to make intermittent contact. Viola! she runs, she don't run, seemingly randomly. Look very close, and actually see if those plugs are ok first.

After that, a battery issue rears it's ugly head. Your battery is way too small for your motor and controller. You have 1500w, so I'm assuming that means it's a 30 amps controller. Your battery is likely to be ideal for a 15-20 amps controller. The battery is likely to get very unbalanced every ride as a result. So you will need to leave it plugged into the charger pretty much all times you aren't actually riding it, so it can have the time to balance.

Worst case, you have a weak cell in the pack that died already. That would mean the remaining cells in that cell group have to work even harder, and typically kick the bucket fairly quick.

Assuming your battery is a 16 cell lifepo4, it should be charging to about 56-58v. 53v is quite possibly only partialy charged.
i has taking all apart and have checked every single wire
also thought mayb my battrey is not ok, so i connected other battrey witch gives 65v - same not working
could be the controller stuck on lock mode or something?, how could i release it?, its might be becuase of the anti theft wires or the yellow brake wire?
i am despret i cant find the problem

ist not the problem any other advises?

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Re: motor dosent run

Post by xlzeo » Dec 26 2012 10:36am

anyone??

i am guessing my controller f---ed up ,

golden motor magic pie 3 ( can work on 24-48V) (250W-1000W)
i have
life4po 48v 12 ah / life4po 36V 12 ah

anyone have controller he can recommend me to buy that will fit?

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dogman dan   100 GW

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Re: motor dosent run

Post by dogman dan » Dec 26 2012 1:59pm

Well, eliminated the easy to check stuff I guess.

First thing to do now, would be to look for a dead hall sensor in the motor, as well as perhaps a similar problem with the throttle. Easiest way to get it all checked would be to go buy a motor/controller/throttle tester. About 30 bucks (usa) on ebay. Or search out threads that detail how to check the halls with a voltmeter. Tech reference section, and the wiki would be the first places to look.

For your battery, even a 20 amp controller would be a bit of a push, but should be ok for awhile. Just your typical kit controller, usually a 9 fet, 36v, that can also run 48v. It may be called an 800w.

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Re: motor dosent run

Post by wesnewell » Dec 26 2012 4:51pm

What watt meter do you have hooked up. Also, you shouldn't be hooking up a battery with 65V to a 48V controller as most are designed for 63V max. Sorry, I don't know where your problem is, but I'd take the watt meter off until you get it straightened out. One less place where the problem may be.
Need Advice? https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =3&t=66302
Mongoose 26" Ledge 2.1 mtb bike $99, yescomusa.com 48V 1000W rear hub kit $200, Hua Tong 72V 40A controller $35, 10ah 24s lipo $217=~43mph, range=45 miles @ 20mph. 25K miles and still going strong.
Huffy Fortress 3.0 with MXUS 3000 4T motor, 24s lipo, 96V 60A controller. Total cost with extras <$700. Top speed ~50mph
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dogman dan   100 GW

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Re: motor dosent run

Post by dogman dan » Dec 27 2012 8:27am

My bet is still on a bad hall sensor in the motor. Why? Because of the way it failed. I've had it happen to me before, Ride, get motor hot, when you park the motor gets even hotter for a few minuites. Next ride, you got a cooked hall sensor.

Get a 4v or 5v battery, and check the halls in the motor. Battery + red Battery - black. voltmeter + on the red, voltmeter - on blue green or yellow. Rotate the motor, and you should see 0v then 5v then 0v as the functioning hall sensor turns on and off. If it stays 0v or stays 5v, the hall sensor is fried.

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Re: motor dosent run

Post by d8veh » Dec 27 2012 10:31am

Just in case you don't know, the thin red wire, which they call the door-lock needs to be connected to the battery "+" for the controller to give power.

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Re: motor dosent run

Post by xlzeo » Dec 27 2012 11:19am

d8veh wrote:Just in case you don't know, the thin red wire, which they call the door-lock needs to be connected to the battery "+" for the controller to give power.
I know that he is connected , what I don't under stand is what anti theft wires work and how you enable/ disable that function

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Re: motor dosent run

Post by John in CR » Dec 27 2012 11:24am

Once the controller "learns" and works do you disconnect the self learning jumper? Also check your hall connector, maybe one of the spades is pushing out or off to the side. If it works fine, then you disconnect, and reconnect then it doesn't work, that sure sounds like a connector problem. Also check your wires for shorts or breaks.

Have you left the battery on the charger overnight? They take time to balance after charging. Have you checked the voltage of each cell to make sure it is properly balanced?

It sounds like you really like and need your ebike. If you want a reliable system, then stop disconnecting everything. I never disconnect anything other than the charger plug...just put the key in, turn it, and go. I'm not willing to spend $ on expensive connectors, so if I disconnected everything daily I'm sure I'd have problems. If your parking arrangement requires disconnecting every time, then you're going to need good quality connectors.

John

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Re: motor dosent run

Post by xlzeo » Dec 27 2012 11:45am

John in CR wrote:Once the controller "learns" and works do you disconnect the self learning jumper? yesAlso check your hall connector I don't know we're it located , how it looks like or how to chech it, maybe one of the spades is pushing out or off to the sidedidn't understood what that's means. If it works fine, then you disconnect, and reconnect then it doesn't work, that sure sounds like a connector problemI have checked them all , and they good , Im using quality bullets , I have to diconnect because I keep my bike on my building yard and there are many thifes. Also check your wires for shorts or breaks.breaks arnt connected , it wire is unplaged, I am using disc brakes

Have you left the battery on the charger overnight? They take time to balance after charging. Have you checked the voltage of each cell to make sure it is properly balanced?
I did charged it overnight , can't check each cell it a closed life4po pack
It sounds like you really like and need your ebike. I really like them ,they serve my all the time is exchange for a car, but the really disappointing me I have problems all the time , it never run and keep in working more the. few weeksIf you want a reliable system, then stop disconnecting everything. I never disconnect anything other than the charger plug...just put the key in, turn it, and go. I'm not willing to spend $ on expensive connectors, so if I disconnected everything daily I'm sure I'd have problems. If your parking arrangement requires disconnecting every time, then you're going to need good quality connectors.

John

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Re: motor dosent run

Post by John in CR » Dec 27 2012 12:07pm

An ebike can be as reliable as a light switch. If the battery is charged, it should always work. Reliability is one of our biggest advantages over ICE powered vehicles.

The hall connector is the one with 5 small wires. I have had the small blade connector push to the side when making the connection and motor won't run.

Not "brakes" for stopping, "breaks" as in the copper connection is broken. Look especially where wires enter the motor.

Regarding theft, I don't understand how your bike is safe, with or without the motor on it. I'd suggest a nice little folder that you can bring inside. Jeremy has some nice how to's for just the bike you need, and you never have to disconnect anything, which begs for problems.

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Re: motor dosent run

Post by miro13car » Dec 27 2012 12:13pm

"an ebike CAN BE reliable like light switch" ???
which one ebike?
Izip or Stromer? example
there is day and night difference between two.

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Re: motor dosent run

Post by xlzeo » Dec 27 2012 12:22pm

John in CR wrote:An ebike can be as reliable as a light switch. If the battery is charged, it should always work. Reliability is one of our biggest advantages over ICE powered vehicles.

The hall connector is the one with 5 small wires. I have had the small blade connector push to the side when making the connection and motor won't run. ]What is the simple way to check if those hall were damaged??

Not "brakes" for stopping, "breaks" as in the copper connection is broken. Look especially where wires enter the motor.didn't check inside the motor because I am not sure how to open it but outside the motor all connections are good

Regarding theft, I don't understand how your bike is safe, with or without the motor on it. I'd suggest a nice little folder that you can bring inside. Jeremy has some nice how to's for just the bike you need, and you never have to disconnect anything, which begs for problems.I don't disconnect the motor only battrey and esc (controller)

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Re: motor dosent run

Post by Harold in CR » Dec 27 2012 1:58pm

I'm new at this also, but, you are not paying attention to what has been written for you.

First, open the connectors you normally unplug and LOOK inside, to see if one contact pin is not even with the rest. If one is shorter, INSIDE the connector. Push it in further. If everything LOOKS good, go to the next step.

Do you HAVE a volt-ohm meter ? If so, do what Dogman said.
Get a 4v or 5v battery, and check the halls in the motor. Battery + red Battery - black. voltmeter + on the red, voltmeter - on blue green or yellow. Rotate the motor, and you should see 0v then 5v then 0v as the functioning hall sensor turns on and off. If it stays 0v or stays 5v, the hall sensor is fried.
If you don't understand, take a paper and pencil and draw 5 lines. Label each line as Red--Black--Blue--Yellow--Green. Then, follow what Dogmas says, above. DO NOT use a battery over 5V. It will burn up the hall sensors.

Next, do what John said.
Look especially where wires enter the motor.
He did not say take the motor apart. Look where the wires go INTO the motor. They could be cut and shorting to each other, or, to the axle.

You said everything worked after you charged the Battery, then, it stopped. Was it not working AFTER you unplugged-plugged in the connections, AFTER you DID get to ride it, OR, did it just stop running WHILE you were riding ?

After you do the things you were told to do, report back here, if or if not things are working. List the process with the Hall sensor testing, if checking all connections and wires ENTERING the motor, are certain all is good.

Good luck.
Thanks to Justin, the forum is open source and NON-commercialized.

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Re: motor dosent run

Post by xlzeo » Dec 27 2012 4:59pm

Harold in CR wrote:I'm new at this also, but, you are not paying attention to what has been written for you.

First, open the connectors you normally unplug and LOOK inside, to see if one contact pin is not even with the rest. If one is shorter, INSIDE the connector. Push it in further. If everything LOOKS good, go to the next step. i did pay attention and i did answered, there is no connectors i switched the all for bullets, and i check every sine connect/connector and they are all good

Do you HAVE a volt-ohm meter ? If so, do what Dogman said.i dont have voltmater and i didnt understand what i should do with it
Get a 4v or 5v battery, and check the halls in the motorhow its look like?, how do i open my motor?, where on the motor its located?. Battery + red Battery - black. voltmeter + on the red, voltmeter - on blue green or yellow. Rotate the motor, and you should see 0v then 5v then 0v as the functioning hall sensor turns on and off. If it stays 0v or stays 5v, the hall sensor is friedit dosent understood , not for me i am not engnieer i need please simple explanation.
If you don't understand, take a paper and pencil and draw 5 lines. Label each line as Red--Black--Blue--Yellow--Green. Then, follow what Dogmas says, above. DO NOT use a battery over 5V. It will burn up the hall sensors.

Next, do what John said.
Look especially where wires enter the motor.
He did not say take the motor apart. Look where the wires go INTO the motor. They could be cut and shorting to each other, or, to the axle. checked them they dont short the pefectly protected

You said everything worked after you charged the Battery, then, it stopped. Was it not working AFTER you unplugged-plugged in the connections, AFTER you DID get to ride it, OR, did it just stop running WHILE you were riding ?thats how things was- everything worked i return home and didnt needed the bike so they get some rest on the next time i wanted to ride it didnt work, i tought battrey not balanced so i charge for 1 hour and then just wanted to know if that was the problem so i conected and try to run and it worked then i return the battrey for overnight charge when i tried connect and run on the morning it didnt worked- i have a felling its the controller but am not sure

After you do the things you were told to do, report back here, if or if not things are working. List the process with the Hall sensor testing, if checking all connections and wires ENTERING the motor, are certain all is good.

Good luck thanks, but it still dosent work, i tried with other thorttle so it isnt that, i have a feeling its the controller but i dont have any other controller to check it or other motor to check the controller :D , any idea how do i check if the controller is working? has fail?.
anyway thank you guys very much for tring help me out

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Re: motor dosent run

Post by Harold in CR » Dec 27 2012 6:41pm

The hall sensor wires are in a 5 section connector. They plug in just like the controller. I can't believe you changed THEM to 5 bullet connectors ?? Can you possibly put a few photos up here so we can SEE what you have. ?

THIS is what a multimeter, VOM looks like. You NEED to get one similar to this.

The hall sensors can be checked on the wires OUTSIDE the motor. You can do everything you were told to do, without opening the motor or controller.
The connector will look like THIS usually. It might also be black or square, but, the wire colors will always be the same, but, not necessarily in the same order as the photo.

I would also make sure the 48V battery is fully charged.
THEN, we can try to help from there, OK ?
Thanks to Justin, the forum is open source and NON-commercialized.

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Re: motor dosent run

Post by John in CR » Dec 27 2012 10:03pm

miro13car wrote:"an ebike CAN BE reliable like light switch" ???
which one ebike?
Izip or Stromer? example
there is day and night difference between two.
One, how about 7?

Her name is Blue. Launched Dec '08. Taken down Dec '12 waiting for new spokes and bearing job...too many loads like the 30kg of dog food in the pic. I blew a few controllers experimenting/exploring limits prior to Sep '10. LFP got her side-swiped by a rogue ocean wave in Mar '10 and it got a drop of seawater in the hall connector (no duct tape on that) which took a couple of minutes to figure out and dry out while she recharged. Ran out of juice twice, but otherwise I put the key in and she goes....Absolute top speed 60mph, but a useful 50mph. I could hop aboard right now if I wasn't afraid the rest of the spokes would snap off or bearing go completely and grind the stator on the mags.
Blue plus 30kg of dogfood sml.JPG
Blue plus 30kg of dogfood sml.JPG (41.24 KiB) Viewed 1755 times
SuperV is my main ride and she's always ready. I took the walk of shame once, when I ran a pair of controllers thinking the plug braking thing was regen, and hard plug braking from 60mph popped both controllers. That was a controller test, not a reliability issue. I just made the mistake of not heading uphill for the test like I always do, and had to push it home. She gets to her 65mph top speed so quickly that her entire speed range is useful, and if I was inclined to go faster going from 20s to 24s would be the only change needed.
SuperV with Hubmonster HE b.JPG
SuperV with Hubmonster HE b.JPG (40.81 KiB) Viewed 1755 times
Other than my first attempt using a small brushed motor and #25 chain that wouldn't stay on I haven't had an ebike with reliability issues. I just moved on to better handling or performance, and they still work fine other than a couple I cut up due to a failed experiment comfort and/or handling. Those alive and well with 0 failures, experimental or otherwise, include Clown Bike, Wahoo, Rhino, WWBB, and a nameless Specialized. I take it back the Specialized was the first hubmotor ebike and ripped out the front dropouts in the first 10ft of the first ride, a lesson learned and fixed in July '08.

I don't know how anyone tolerates an unreliable ebike.

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Re: motor dosent run

Post by dogman dan » Dec 28 2012 8:37am

Slow down, calm down, read our advice carefully.

Bear in mind one cruicial thing. " I put the battery on charge all night" is NOT the same thing as " I confirmed with a voltmeter that the battery actually got charged overnight"

Here's a classic one for you. That green light on the charger? It means one of two things. A the battery is charged, or B the plug to the charger broke.

Re reliabliity, an ebike is only as good as the plug connections, and the battery being used. That's why we keep saying check the plugs and battery first.

With properly connected plugs, and a decent quality lifepo4 battery, my ebikes have been as reliable as any cheap car. Sure, not as reliable as a $25,000 new car, but easily the bike was more reliable than a $5000 car. If anything, the only real problem is the same old one. Flat tires, since the roads are strewn with sheetrock and roofing nails.

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