A2B Metro - www.ultramotor.com - Video Page4

I’m really missing something here.
The switch connects either the a or b pack.
The lyen controller has a three speed switch…so if I set sp 1 to +/- 40%, sp2 = 100%, sp 3 = 120%

and

when running the 36V stock pack use the sp1 setting…shouldn’t that give me a lower total A draw no matter how ham fisted I might be? Which would preserve the battery’s ‘natural life span’?
Or is this just a total waste of time?
I’m trying to end up with a 40 mile range under light throttle application.
The zippy compacts will give me 72V 23A…I suspect that even at moderate throttle with 72V I would probably only see 25~30 mile range.
the zippy compacts will fit in the oem rear box with a 3/8 case extension.....so that is my preference
Thoughts? Objections? A different concept entirely?

I need to make up my mind and get this ordered in the next few days.


wj

wymjymn said:

well, three years-three months-lots of miles and the metro motor has gone -puuuuf.
out riding the other day and all of a sudden things slowed waaaay down, pedaling was waaaaaaay difficult, as if I had the brakes on.

It got a trunk ride home and I checked the continuity of the motor leads....dead short!!!


wj

Click to expand...

I have a 09 A2B with ~ 7000 miles so i guess its days are numbered as well..lol

Did you end up buying a replacement motor, and where?

You can give your A2B metro motor a new life! Don't replace the motor, gut it: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=43482

[/quote]I have a 09 A2B with ~ 7000 miles so i guess its days are numbered as well..lol

Did you end up buying a replacement motor, and where?[/quote]

Although the Lyen 12 fet is sitting here waiting to be used I decided to try to go back stock until I sort out exactly what batteries and charger configuration I’ll go with…not to mention that cold dark winter time is when I would prefer to do the transition…so in a couple more months.

At any rate fellow ES member Edamane has been helping me out, but I’m still walking!
I installed a used stator that was given to me along with it’s stock controller. I plugged in the power and the din connector and turned on the switch to give it power…the rear wheel reacted by twitching…and @ 15 seconds later it twitched again and again etc. The throttle has no impact and when I disconnected the 4 pin (din) connector the wheel continued to twitch every 15 seconds.
So my question today is….what is this indicative of? A bad controller…a bad stator…or ?????????
Thanks for any insight


wj

I finally found an a rear battery, on a local almost-wreck that has a sordid history but able to pick it up for a fair price.
They had no charger and had run the frame battery flat, it was just over 5V when I measured it, which helped me be disappointed and value it down.
The rear battery had 36V no load so fortunately hadn't been used up without a charger.
The guy tried telling me that the manual said to fully drain often, yet he had no manuals or charger, no key, lock was broken/stolen by neighbours 4 times (state housing townhous complex in neglected/abused condition), original owner deceased estate mother inlaw who died of lung cancer (so that puts me as a rider in wimpy category as someone with terminal respiratory disease). Someone drilled through the frame to self tapper screw mount a water bottle holder, and lots of weather exposure corrossion to everything, be interesting to see inside the frame if water followed the coarse threads.

Anyway nice to have it in my hands, well, not that nice, the grips have a sticky feeling and are worn in a way mine with 4 months commuter use aren't worn, maybe sun weathering but gut feeling isn't a positive one. Charged the frame battery up to 41.6V same as the rear battery did, and both have dropped to 41.3V in the same time. I haven't load tested the frame battery but am not expecting anything from it, but if it does survive, will give it a hard time on keep cool morning commute tests.

With pedalling taller gearing the stock A2B Metro setup has got me to work in record time faster than any pedal bike and only a few minutes slower than 72V 2kW due to several stop/starts in commute. Practically there isn't any commuter gain for me deviate until something stock fails, but at least this black one has a lot more neglect and likeliness of something failing =P

It's time to upgrade to a rear shock now, the spring is bad/dangerous and I haven't ridden any other bike through a speed turn with bump that has handled it as badly as stepping the tail out. Lots of things I like about the A2B Metro, and it holds the record for able to dig out 5mm glass shards in tyre tread without incident or getting close to the tube. Only a handful of dry punctures through the year didn't phase me on the others, but it's a nice dependable quality for winter when glass cuts dominate, and I rode first half of winter on the white A2B Metro this year.

Just completed first ride, nice to taste electric on 3rd day into year of every day commuting again, so as a mid-week semi-rest day between pedal bikes works out nicely, and lets me cycle the dodgy frame battery. Dropped down to the red light under load for the last couple throttles after 20km with lots of pedal assist and ducking against the 40kph gust head wind.




I had removed the drink bottle on down tube, they had drilled through/into the frame, so I need to seal those up to avoid water in the electrics. I took off the sticky original grips and cut standard MTB grips to size, added the bar ends, put an old MTB taller chain ring/crank on for top cruise speed like my white A2B Metro, tightened centre stand mount, tried to adjust bottom chain guide out to be more inline with front chain ring, but head was rusted to the washer and body of the guide.

The bike is too heavy to easily hoist onto the hooks of front wheel lofted bike parking without unnecessarily struggling, so I found a corner spot able to tuck the tail alongside some air conditioning, only taking up one bike spot, not that the cage was even a third full today. I used to be able to take my bike up near office and charge frame battery there, but now can't so removable rear battery or frame use on way in, rear use on way home is required.

I had my first puncture on A2B Metro wheels last week, fortunately was the front wheel and flat overnight so before leaving to work I was able to swap over front wheel from my white bike. I haven't patched it yet to find what the puncture cause was, I have dug out 5-7mm glass shards from the white bike's tyres without incident over the past year so will be interesting.

With this bike I usually ride 20km on frame battery, then same return on rear battery going home. Sick with fever/cold past week one day with strong tail wind decided to try get home on other half of the frame battery. Boy it was much slower and legs felt it the next day from the extra grunt they provided to keep speed up. Got home on red light for last 5km, after a rest period it was 35.9V on multimeter, 40km with strong pedal assist, freeway overpasses and 27kph+ average trip speed including intersection stoppages. Felt about 5kph less top speed at 36V versus charged 41.6V. I'm keen to get a couple 2S 8-10Ah boost packs like Ypedal to take the 41.6V to ~49.8V, and probably a cheap lipo charger to leave at work, second main 36V charger. Changing office in a couple months so may be able to charge frame battery at work again.

Now also want to buy a couple of the rear shock upgrades, I'm frequently getting the rear stepping out in the dry, I knew the places in the wet on the same route, but I want to mix up the route more this year and happiest to do it with the A2B since I usually pick up punctures on new unknown routes looking at the surroundings and not dodging or detouring around known broken glass patches. I'm nearly over the chesty cough so will have to put in a HK and CRC order.

If you're still riding those 3x20" kendas good luck! Shinkos were a huge improvement.

Will be interested in what you find for a rear shock replacement.. If you search ES, you'll find some guys went wih a pricey fox air shock which they like....

Not sure what luck is needed other than finding more new stock).
So far with the Kendas over the two bikes, this latest one probably more weathered tyres but only ridden in summer, still emergency braked like a dropped boulder on the spot.
Riding through thunderstorms and dry with white bike last year the only issue has been suspension rear stepping out at speed on bumpy bends, and greater than 1inch rocks/gum nuts.

I saw on ebay someone listed the manitou replacement, but at $100 + freight wasn't worth chancing on used when I want 2 of them.

I picked up a shard of glass with some well worn Kenda and the bike was ‘dead’ in it’s tracks. I was @ 5 miles from home (with a bad hip)…luckily my neighbor was driving by in his truck, I’m not too sure I could have pushed it all the way back otherwise.
Quickly ordered up two new tires + stock tubes which are heavily reinforced + add some anti puncture slime to each and I’ve found a few cactus spines since then without any air loss.
I’m not enamored with the Kendas other than the size…if anyone knows of a tire that has the same rolling diameter please LMK since it is time for another set.


wj

I have the kenda flames, at least they have some tread thickness to help prevent some punctures. I would like to do some tread cutting to them if I could find the right tire cutting tool.

wymjymn said:

I’m not enamored with the Kendas other than the size…if anyone knows of a tire that has the same rolling diameter please LMK since it is time for another set.

wj

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Don't waste another minute with those Kendas.. they are chard magnets.

Many of us have bought these Shinko moped tires and thorn resistant tubes.. So they are 16" motorcycle tires (based on rim size, not 20" bicycle tires based on tire OD)... They seem very durable... 3 months no problems.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00274F0G6/ref=oh_details_o03_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0009JGXLW/ref=oh_details_o02_s00_i01?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Disadvantages:
1. They are narrower 2.25" and have a smaller OD .. So they do not look as kool.. You might be able to buy a wider tire but i didn't want to experiment.
2. They are more difficult to install... I was able to install the Kendas without any tools... These require tools and some elbow grease.. OTOH they are much more durable.
3. Lower pressure, not sure it matters since it has a smaller footprint.
4. You may have to recal your speedo since tire OD is smaller

Advantages:
1. Cheaper, much cheaper.
2. they don't leak!
3 Much more durable.. These are 4 ply tires. DOT approved.

HI,
I bought the Shinko tires last year and the smaller OD is the only reason they were returned and I was back to Kenda.
FWIW.....I want to pedal assist and to that end I've installed a 52t crank gear.

SO...if anyone knows of a replacement tire that does have the same OD as the Kenda...please share the info.


wj

My Kenda Kraze still have an unblemished puncture record in my hands (cue tonight's puncture now that I've said that!)
The overnight flat mentioned earlier I found was the tube with an existing conventional patch that had shifted and leaked the Slime all through the carcass resulting in flat overnight.

I saw someone on ebay wants U$200+ for a dead rear battery pack. Ironically the 11Ah frame pack on my ebony bike that was 5V when I bought it, is sagging less performing far stronger than the 36V when purchased rear 9Ah pack that sags heavily and feels like a half drained 11Ah pack. I wanted to test emergency scenario of rear pack failing and using the frame, and it did the 40km and back return trip. A lot slower for last 1/4 of use, I got a workout trying to keep the speed I was accustomed to. I also found the rear pack had been opened before (warranty stickers cut) and writing "CLOW" on inside slide mount of case. I don't know if it was a Mrs. C. Low, or indicating "C" portion of the 3 section pack reading low, or an insult missing an N.

So I took measurements and decided to stick with me 6S battery charging/balancing regime, using stock motor/controllers/connections with a 12S 50V max setup for slightly more top speed than now as per Ypedal's boost pack. I was impressed to find I can fit 37.1Ah of 20C Turnigy LiPo in a 12S7P with a 10% internal dimension allowance for pack size variation and if lucky room for more wiring options. The option of 18S4P for 13Ah consisting of 10.3Ah with 12 of the 14 packs used for 12S7P, and a new trio of slim long pack if/when both standard motors/controller setups die. I'm holding off on the 72V setup to see how the stock frame packs go, since I have two of those, keeping to stock setup is tidy and I will soon have over 48Ah in the stock package where I currently have 20Ah.

At some point I want to upgrade the plastic rear handle cover plate for more strength and better seal since I use it to maneuver the bike it appears to be fatiguing at the seal, do it before it fails and causes more problems or a stranding, include a non-structural recessed removable patch panel fixed for bulk charging, removable for less frequent access to balancing harnesses... see how it develops once packs are in hand. Scalable convenience is in mind with potential frame packs LiPo'd down the track, new/old office may have power in the store room for frame battery charging so benefits of stock packaging are important, especially for legal if going to 72V.

deepfraught said:

So I took measurements and decided to stick with me 6S battery charging/balancing regime, using stock motor/controllers/connections with a 12S 50V max setup for slightly more top speed than now as per Ypedal's boost pack. I was impressed to find I can fit 37.1Ah of 20C Turnigy LiPo in a 12S7P with a 10% internal dimension allowance for pack size variation and if lucky room for more wiring options. The option of 18S4P for 13Ah consisting of 10.3Ah with 12 of the 14 packs used for 12S7P, and a new trio of slim long pack if/when both standard motors/controller setups die. I'm holding off on the 72V setup to see how the stock frame packs go, since I have two of those, keeping to stock setup is tidy and I will soon have over 48Ah in the stock package where I currently have 20Ah.

Click to expand...

Can you provide any info on the wiring configuration for the rear battery? I want to replace my 4 year old battery that is down to 60% capacity with a new pack from ElectricRider, but I don't know how to wire it once I cut the cannon connector.. Haven't disassembled the battery pack since I will sell it used on eBay.

Thanks for any insight.

No info yet, it's a blank canvas so I'll be looking into slick OEM style battery/charging workflows for home/office quiet and convenient like standard setup. A switchable controller upgrade for 36V or 72V config at same time as switchable battery wiring would be ideal for range or power. Or run 72V "get to work" in rear battery and 36V "get me home, emergency" in frame battery.
Here's the batteries arrived yesterday, all within 0.1V on multimeter (I forget the voltage, fell asleep sitting with a probe/battery in my hand)

So you're going to gut the Metro Motor remove the controller and install a new one?

I am hoping to run less than 50V on stock setup like YPedal, in 12S7P with 14 of 15 in pic, only modify when stock controller fails

The 9Ah rear battery hit a new low against strong winds today cutting out under load on low battery red light up a hill less than 20km covered with pedal assist.
A downhill and pedal rest of battery brought it back to assist for final 3km before cutting out again as I rolled into the car park at 23km end of trip. The 11Ah frame battery for trip home is much stronger (so I save it for going home
I'm trying to man-up and get on the pedal bikes again, but charged up the A2B again =P

So are you finding that the External batterys are more junky than the in frame batteries?

I've noticed from rear packs for sale that the old were 9.xAh newer ones to 11 and 12Ah IIRC. Physically on surface they looked the same with blue power light, but the amp hour rating sticker different.
In the UK I believe you could buy them with either frame or rear battery, presumably for the same price, so you may have been technically getting a poorer deal for the rear battery, but the versatility of the rear battery being removable a smart option to offer.

Just yesterday I paid for a 3rd A2B Metro (be the 2nd white one in fleet) that has found me by bizarre circumstances... will detail this new story once I've got a picture to show.

As of yesterday also coincidental timing to getting a 3rd, my 2nd black one with tainted history that has suffered some wet weather strange behaviour now seems to be giving up. Feels like flakey throttle/sensitivity then cut-out, but performed well, until yesterday seemed to dislike usage and fade to nothing... so I've quickly got legs of steel developing and back on a pedal only today.

This should mean by the weekend I have 1 assembled working upgraded white stock A2B Metro with rear battery, 1 faulty black with dying rear battery for 50V/72V project, original 1 white one as backup/parts waiting for destiny to reveal itself.

Also an update, the original white's Kenda Kraze had a sidewall delamination, bulging but not catastrophic, took pictures and wondering if it was parked in the sun on that side, if I've jumped off curbs too much and given it a hard time or just wear and tear at weak point.

I've had a good read of this thread as I have been asked to replace the B battery on the rack of an Australia delivered A2B.
It's nice to see a few extra volts is fine for the internal controller as I am planning on using a 12S A1213 20ah pack from Cellman as the rear battery replacement.
I would like to keep the original A pack/B pack key switch function instead of plugging the new 20ah pack straight into the motor.
This is where my question starts. The original B battery has 4 wires that connect to the bike, red +, black - and two thin wires orange and yellow. These 4 wires are together in some sort of XLR plug.
What are the orange and yellow for. They go to the BMS inside the pack, see the first photo in The Stig's earlier post. http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=35078#p511018
I haven't got the bike ATM just the rear batt pack so any help is much appreciated.
The metro wiring diagram I found here on ES doesn't show the orange and yellow wires connecting to the rear battery it only shows a red and black.
http://site.nycewheels.com/manuals/Ultramotor/A2B-Metro-Service-Manual-V1.pdf
Cheers,
Matt.

Matt I haven't got to fiddling with mine yet, but do look at the batteries daily as a reminder so may follow in parallel.

PS: If the owner you're doing it for wants to get rid of the factory B-pack, I've now got 3 x A2B chassis but only 2 x rear packs to work with, and am keen to add a 3rd

deepfraught said:

I've noticed from rear packs for sale that the old were 9.xAh newer ones to 11 and 12Ah IIRC. Physically on surface they looked the same with blue power light, but the amp hour rating sticker different.

Click to expand...

Hi there Deepfraught, I forgot to mention in my post above that I have a 9.5ah rear pack apart ATM and was surprised to notice it's a 5P pack with room to be a 6P pack. So this one could have been a 11.4ah pack if fully stocked with cells.

deepfraught said:

PS: If the owner you're doing it for wants to get rid of the factory B-pack, I've now got 3 x A2B chassis but only 2 x rear packs to work with, and am keen to add a 3rd

Click to expand...

I'll let you know if he wants to get rid of it.
Cheers,
Matt