osnpower battery 48v 20ah review

dnmun said:
i don't see how you can say that using the korean produced cells is materially misleading.
Click to expand...

The OSN ad clearly states "Geniune Made in the USA short tab cells." This is a draw for those who know the USA cells have a better reputation.

If they are going to substitute batteries they should at least advise the customer, or just pull their bogus ad.

http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/download/file.php?id=101399
 
dnmun said:
i don't see how you can say that using the korean produced cells is materially misleading.

they are all made by the same company on the same equipment with the same materials.

i would choose something manufactured by korean workers over american workers any day of the year.

the koreans have the world's record for work ethic. a more diligent and capable work force does not exist anywhere else in the world.
Click to expand...

Isn't that a bit of a massive generalization? "i would choose something manufactured by korean workers over american workers any day of the year."

How can you say, "i don't see how you can say that using the korean produced cells is materially misleading." What puzzles me is that you are trying to build a bias or case for Korean made cells. I don't know which are better, maybe they are identical. That doesn't matter. If you wanted a red ball and the ad said, 'GENUINE RED BALL!' and you got a blue ball, would you feel misled? Sure, they are both balls, but a difference which makes no difference is no difference.
 
Hi bowlofsalad,

After reading all your post, I just a little confused by your "militant" words.

I did say that I forgot to ESPECIALLY confirmed with our factory that ROG130's battery pack need to be made of USA cells, NOT Korean cells.

So our factory dealt with his order randomly by choosing Korean cells.

I am NOT the technicians who assembled the battery pack, I only got to know that ROG130's battery pack was built by Korean cells after he received his package and took it apart.

In my mail to ROG130, I did apologize for my fault, and the generous ROG130 said he was not to bothered of his korean cells and I have asked ROG130 to give me his paypal account, I would like to refund him a part of money out of my personal pocket for my fault.

If you still insist that I put the "genuine made in USA cells" deliberately in the price sheet, it's ok. I do NOT want to say anything again about that.

I just wondering, what else do you want me do?

If you think 999zip999 had some purposes by saying those things to show a trustworthy face to our OSN, I just wondering

what's your purposes to be so harsh with a sales girl, who made a mistake by carelessness?

In China, there is a saying that "People are just human beings. Everyone may make mistakes; He would still be a good man if he realized his mistakes and tried his best to compensate for it".

I just wondering, does your purpose is only to ask for compensation for ROG130 from us or do you have some other purposes?

Did ROG130 test his 48V 20Ah Korean battery pack and did he say that his battery pack does NOT work for his battery pack is made of Korean cells?

Even there is something wrong with his battery pack after his testing, I am afraid we can NOT say it's all our fault, because we are not sure this mistake was made by our technician or some damage happened when he took apart the battery.

Have you ever tested our OSN batteries?

If no, how can you say our Korean cells are worse than the USA cells without any testing?
 
If the cells were made by the same company on the same equipment, they should have been made to the same standards and if they weren't rejected by QA there shouldn't be any good and bad about them, just issues of tolerances and therefore matching.
But as said, they're red one's not blue.
Sorry i just had to correct my grammar, get over it :roll:
 
All i can say, i had bad Korean cells which we had big argument with dnmun in the past. I had a thought of weighing the USA made cell and Korean made cell and it turns out that Korean squeezed out more WH per KG!!! You might ask how? Well, they forgot to put in electrolyte and that cut 100g of a cell. Now i haven't heard such happening on USA cell and there were many cells from different sources acquired and played with throughout the globe. Make out of it what you like.
 
April said:
Hi bowlofsalad,

After reading ...
I did say that I forgot t...

I am NOT the technicians ...

In my mail to ROG130, I did apologize for my fault ...

sales girl, who made a mistake by carelessness ...

"People are just human beings. Everyone may make mistakes; He would still be a good man if he realized his mistakes and tried his best to compensate for it" ...
Click to expand...

Perhaps ROG130 is a nice person who was not fuc*ed about by firms too much.
If you had made a mistake, you SHOULD apologies, this is just plain ethics of any business. After that ONS should offer (if person asks) to replace product at their expense regarding shipping and all other costs involved. This is how you build reputation on top of good service if something goes tits up.

I meant no offence to Nancy or who ever is here. If you do this job, and nobody is interested in your miss communication with technicians, factory or internal affairs, making mistakes should cost You, ONS and not the customer
 
agniusm said:
All i can say, i had bad Korean cells which we had big argument with dnmun in the past. I had a thought of weighing the USA made cell and Korean made cell and it turns out that Korean squeezed out more WH per KG!!! You might ask how? Well, they forgot to put in electrolyte and that cut 100g of a cell. Now i haven't heard such happening on USA cell and there were many cells from different sources acquired and played with throughout the globe. Make out of it what you like.
Click to expand...

So according to your information, you thought the Korean cells are less than the USA cells, and about less 100g a cell, right?
I can tell you that ROG130's Korean cell is about 493g per cell.
If you do NOT believe what I said, you may ask ROG130 to take ONE cell from his battery pack,and weight it, let's see what's the weight of his cells.

If you had bitter experience with the cells from others, may I know what's the price you got the cells from them?
I mean if it is a very "perferential" price, which is ridiculously lower than the market price of the A123 batteries, I just can say,sometimes the price tells the quality.
And aslo I would like to tell you, in the China market, there exsits a kind of FAKE A123 battery, which is the same appearance as the genuine A123 battery.
It is very difficult to tell which is fake and which is genunie just by appearance, but the fake one will be about 100g less than the genunie one.
So maybe you are unlucky, you got the Fake one.
 
Cellman uses A123 20ah cells from korea as he said the USA ones have the problems. JohnCR had wrote the same thing.

Agniusm why don't you take a trip to England and go help test them don't forget to take a bowl of salad with you.
I had to put that in.
We are just going to wait till ROG130 gets back up and around. Rog Good luck with all that.
And when he finishes his build and gives it a real world work out I hope to find out the information. If you still have access inside I would put some 8s balance wires to make easy to monitor with a cellmate or something. I love it when I did it to my ping. And I don't have a bms just 4-6s balance wires and a 1420 hyperion on my 24s as 12s pack. But only use 15ah and charge to 3.59v.
 
agniusm said:
Perhaps ROG130 is a nice person who was not fuc*ed about by firms too much.
If you had made a mistake, you SHOULD apologies, this is just plain ethics of any business. After that ONS should offer (if person asks) to replace product at their expense regarding shipping and all other costs involved. This is how you build reputation on top of good service if something goes tits up.

I meant no offence to Nancy or who ever is here. If you do this job, and nobody is interested in your miss communication with technicians, factory or internal affairs, making mistakes should cost You, ONS and not the customer
Click to expand...

Sure, ROG130 is really a nice person. He is NOT like some others, who are so harsh with a sales girl.
Yes, I did make a mistake, and I also did apologize.
If you say " After that ONS should offer (if person asks) to replace product at their expense regarding shipping and all other costs involved.",
If ROG130 can make EVERYTHING the SAME as what we had sent to him, he could send the battery pack to us and we can send a new USA cells battery pack to him.
But can anybody sure that there is NO damage happened with the battery pack when GOG130 took the battery pack apart?
If we say the battery pack is damaged after he sent it back to us, because there is some damage happened when he took it apart, should ROG130 make compensation for us?

And I would like to tell you that, now that the mistake had happened, It's NOT my company's fault, just for a careless sales girl forgot to confirm the order carefully with the factory, so I have already sent a part of money out of my personal pocket back to ROG130 for my fault.
This is the email I got from ROG130:
"hi nancy, please dont let some of the other e.s members upset you. its not all your fault about the mix up it happens.
keep your chin up and be the happy sales girl you are your are good at your job its a new year and a new start :wink: "

What else do you want me do? But exactly, I needn't do anything for you, because I haven't a business problems with you.
If you do not believe our OSN, you may choose buy from others.
Anyway, you make the decision. I just wondering, what's your true purpose by all what you said?
Maybe what makes you so “militant” is not for the Korean battery pack, but something others, like the A123 20ah battery pack assembly kit. Who knows?

By the way, we are OSN, not what you said"ONS". I can understand it's typing error, but I hope next time, you can make it right.
 
April or Nancy or, actually I would love to know your real name. I have been following the Chinese battery market (among other markets), and I really appreciate your acknowledgement that there is a large market of fake A123 batteries, where it is nearly impossible to tell by appearances that they are fake. It is a difficult situation because the Western market is most likely to find batteries of this type... by the name A123, if searching. What do you call them otherwise and reach the same size of market?

As a westerner, I can tell you that we prefer that everything be represented exactly as it is. Especially when dealing with things out of our control. How do we really know what is happening on the entire other side of the world? Your claim of something being genuine made in the USA...that may be a priority for some. However, many would not care. Made in America, made in Korea, who cares? The best pack possible...perhaps that is what you intended to honor first. However, you did make the claim Made in USA pack. Why? The cost of some of these packs can be fairly substantial. Getting people to give money to someone, where you just can't walk down and confront them if they cheat you, it is built on trust. Even things like this factory or that factory, they are serious stuff.

Agnuism has a reputation for building some good packs. He understands reputation to his business. You seem to as well. My advice is drop the Made in USA claims...allow customers to request it, but don't make these kinds of claims and not deliver.

I, personally, do not even care if the A123 pack is fake or not. Do they use a substantially different process? Do they have substantially different quality control? Do they have a bad reputation in China? Or are they just a bit lower grade? My guess is perhaps a bit lower in process, quality control, and perhaps performance but maybe not drastically so. I think if a company would just admit they sell fakes, but build a reputation for the balancing of packs, using best available quality, and lowest price...they will rise in the amount of market they own substantially. People are willing to sacrifice a bit of performance for cheap. However, having packs built with big differences in battery specs makes all performance and longevity suffer.

My wife is from China, and I intend to make the trip all the way from Beijing to visit people in your area. I would love to stop by. Showing people exactly what they are dealing with is always good for business. Even if people are packaging junk, there are people who want to buy junk (not that yours are junk). However, if a company loses its reputation, even the people interested in buying exactly what they sell...may not be interested, or even give them consideration afterwards.
 
April said:
agniusm said:
All i can say, i had bad Korean cells which we had big argument with dnmun in the past. I had a thought of weighing the USA made cell and Korean made cell and it turns out that Korean squeezed out more WH per KG!!! You might ask how? Well, they forgot to put in electrolyte and that cut 100g of a cell. Now i haven't heard such happening on USA cell and there were many cells from different sources acquired and played with throughout the globe. Make out of it what you like.
Click to expand...

So according to your information, you thought the Korean cells are less than the USA cells, and about less 100g a cell, right?
I can tell you that ROG130's Korean cell is about 493g per cell.
If you do NOT believe what I said, you may ask ROG130 to take ONE cell from his battery pack,and weight it, let's see what's the weight of his cells.

If you had bitter experience with the cells from others, may I know what's the price you got the cells from them?
I mean if it is a very "perferential" price, which is ridiculously lower than the market price of the A123 batteries, I just can say,sometimes the price tells the quality.
And aslo I would like to tell you, in the China market, there exsits a kind of FAKE A123 battery, which is the same appearance as the genuine A123 battery.
It is very difficult to tell which is fake and which is genunie just by appearance, but the fake one will be about 100g less than the genunie one.
So maybe you are unlucky, you got the Fake one.
Click to expand...

I bought my cells more than a year ago, paid 30USD per cell. They were really good condition outside with all relevant markings along with few other USA made ones which were ok.
Hard to tell if its fake or just wrong.
 
I posted those price sheets in the for sale used section. With my typing skills It was the first time on skype and first time downloading things like that. The first two price lists I posted just said A123 20ah you can read the thread in the for sale used section and see. A.W. moved it there. I put it in the battery section first but the price sheet was for info and reponse on A123 20ah from OSN.
It was just started out as a review in the Battery section but the world moves in weird ways.
I was looking to get more cells but $ run low. Plus my batteries is working and I'm going sking. For free.
And thanks to Q.Q.
 
999zip999, i don't know whats your point in defensive position regarding osn, people here are trying to debate what is right and what is wrong so future business with Chinese companies would be more reliable.
I agree with the statement that bowlofsalad made that you have to get what you pay for and that's all. If it is stated USA, should be USA.
I had numerous bad experiences with Chinese by receiving goods not as advertised, or not working at all, lost money etc. and this applies to everything, not only batteries. Perhaps you did not, so you can play along the way you feel.
I could take a trip to UK to test ROG's battery if you like after you pay for it ;)
I am having conversation at the moment with OSN despite this, as i know them for doing good business and i don't dismiss that (again, regarding this topic i stand by my opinion that you should get what you pay for) but there are other things which i don't understand.
I was quoted last time by Jenny from OSN (perhaps Nancy does not want to deal with harsh person like me any more:) )
~10kg shipping to LTU at 280USD. I asked if there is a cheaper option because GEBatery quoted me 185USD through DHL. Jenny replays that there is option through HK post for 175USD. I am rubbing my hands that finally i will get my missing batteries, but she states that i have to pay by T/T which gives me no protection what so ever. I am asking why, because i know ROB paid with paypal. I am told that i can paypal if i choose EMS 280USD option. And thats it. No one wants to explain why so and i am assuming that if something goes wrong i am left to deal with it as i have no protection at all on my purchase. All i am told on each email: waiting for payment; let me know when you have paid and so on. I am forced verbally to do something i don't want.
This is the reason i am on this thread at all. There is no clearness in dealing with Chinese and here is an opportunity to debate this with one of Chinese Company's representative, but all she can say is "i'm sorry". So there you go, get over it and don't make it personal zip!

EDIT: Like Sancho's Horse said, whats with those fake names for western customers? Cindy, Tony, Bob, Nancy.... Whats wrong with Chang or whatever they are? Perhaps they cant be spelled right in English and Nancy would be something like this:
nancy.gif
 
I take this a little lighter as I don't have skin in the game yet. Good luck with your battery dealing. As buying from China, Canada, Califorina and a local vendor 5 mi. away comcycleusa and got rip off from each. Some made good and some I had to pay shipping for there misstakes and never got cleared up.
 
agniusm said:
999zip999, i don't know whats your point in defensive position regarding osn, people here are trying to debate what is right and what is wrong so future business with Chinese companies would be more reliable.
I agree with the statement that bowlofsalad made that you have to get what you pay for and that's all. If it is stated USA, should be USA.
I had numerous bad experiences with Chinese by receiving goods not as advertised, or not working at all, lost money etc. and this applies to everything, not only batteries. Perhaps you did not, so you can play along the way you feel.
I could take a trip to UK to test ROG's battery if you like after you pay for it ;)
I am having conversation at the moment with OSN despite this, as i know them for doing good business and i don't dismiss that (again, regarding this topic i stand by my opinion that you should get what you pay for) but there are other things which i don't understand.
I was quoted last time by Jenny from OSN (perhaps Nancy does not want to deal with harsh person like me any more:) )
~10kg shipping to LTU at 280USD. I asked if there is a cheaper option because GEBatery quoted me 185USD through DHL. Jenny replays that there is option through HK post for 175USD. I am rubbing my hands that finally i will get my missing batteries, but she states that i have to pay by T/T which gives me no protection what so ever. I am asking why, because i know ROB paid with paypal. I am told that i can paypal if i choose EMS 280USD option. And thats it. No one wants to explain why so and i am assuming that if something goes wrong i am left to deal with it as i have no protection at all on my purchase. All i am told on each email: waiting for payment; let me know when you have paid and so on. I am forced verbally to do something i don't want.
This is the reason i am on this thread at all. There is no clearness in dealing with Chinese and here is an opportunity to debate this with one of Chinese Company's representative, but all she can say is "i'm sorry". So there you go, get over it and don't make it personal zip!

Hi agniusm,
Yes, Jenny is my colleague. I just asked her what's the matter with your shipping issue.

You made an enquiry about 10pieces A123 20ah cells and 24pieces A123 32113 cells from Jenny, let alone the price for the cells, just talk about the shipping cost of the battery.

We all know that the batteries are SENSITIVE goods for Customs clearance.
In the year 2011 or the early 2012, all the shipping ways like DHL, FeDex, TNT, or EMS or others are available for shipping of batteries.
But for the new year 2013, there are too many adjustments of the shipping ways for batteries.
Now it changed, currently the most stable and safe way for batteries is by EMS, which is a little expensive. We do feel uneasy with the increasing shipping cost too, NOT only the customers.

What's more, for some Eastern European or some small or remote countries, EMS is not available or even if available, the shipping cost is so high and not very safe, because the shipping agency can not make sure the batteries are easy for Custom clearance in those country.

We work with 3 shipping companies, one told us that they do NOT ship batteries to Lithuania currently, one do, but they only do EMS to your country, which is about US$380.(yes, I know he quoted you US$260 by TNT, but we were told by the shipping agency this way is NOT available now.) and anther company is the HongKong post, she quoted you US$175, but we do not accept Paypal.
For paypal payment, we only accpet if the customers choose the express shipping way.
This is our comapny rule, we worked as a sales girl in the company, we have to obey the rule, so she just can say sorry.

May I know when did you get the quotation from GEBattery US$185 by DHL? in the 2013 or 2012?
and as we can see, their shipping cost is really very good, but why not buy from them?

We would like to sell the cells to you, and we promise that we do NOT make profit from shipping, but we have no choice about the high shipping cost to Lithuania.
Click to expand...
 
agniusm said:
EDIT: Like Sancho's Horse said, whats with those fake names for western customers? Cindy, Tony, Bob, Nancy.... Whats wrong with Chang or whatever they are? Perhaps they cant be spelled right in English and Nancy would be something like this:
nancy.gif
Click to expand...

what's wrong with my English name" Nancy"?
My Chinese name is Lan Peng, Lan is my given name and Peng is the family name. The pronunciation of "Lan" in Chinese is similar to "Nancy" in English, so my English name is Nancy.
In China, people's Chinese name sometimes is hard to remember to some western custmoers, so we give us a simple English name.
Why did you even make fun of my name? Is that really funny? :?: :?: :?:
 
The quotation from GEBattery was few weeks back! Yes in 2013/
I am well aware of increased cost of transportation of hazardous materials.
You wrote lots about costs but you have not answered my simple question. I am prepared to wait longer for my batteries through HK post just to get lower shipping cost i would pay strait away but i would like to pay through paypal, wheres the problem in that? If its company's policy, please explain the reasons behind it as it looks slippery. Also if paypal is no option why you don't suggest escrow?

Where did i made fun of your name??? My name is also uncommon but i did not name myself Bob on this or any other public forum. Lan is easy, nice name and you should use it everywhere ;)
 
agniusm said:
The quotation from GEBattery was few weeks back! Yes in 2013/
I am well aware of increased cost of transportation of hazardous materials.
You wrote lots about costs but you have not answered my simple question. I am prepared to wait longer for my batteries through HK post just to get lower shipping cost i would pay strait away but i would like to pay through paypal, wheres the problem in that? If its company's policy, please explain the reasons behind it as it looks slippery. Also if paypal is no option why you don't suggest escrow?

Where did i made fun of your name??? My name is also uncommon but i did not name myself Bob on this or any other public forum. Lan is easy, nice name and you should use it everywhere ;)
Click to expand...

I already said we do not do the paypal if the customers choose the Hk. This is the company rule, I do NOT know the reason, I am just a sales girl, NOT the boss.

About my name, I can name myself anything I like, it seems that it is none of your business, right?
 
agniusm said:
Right, got it perfectly clear!
Click to expand...

Ok, for your confusion about why we do not do Paypal if the customers choose the HK shipping way, I asked my boss.

First, I would like to state one thing, about Hk shipping way, there are two kinds; one is by air parcel of HongKong post(about 30days or less), the other is by surface parcel of HongKong post (about 50-60days even longer). We do air parcel of HongKong post with paypal when the amount money is less than US$400, above US$400, we only do TT or Western Union. For surface parcel of HongKong post, we only do TT or Western Union.
Here are the reasons:
As we all know, it takes about 2 months or even longer by the surface shipping, and to some small or remote country, we can not track it even we have a tracking number for this shipping way. So we do not know if the goods arrived or not.
If the customers can not wait for such a long delivery time, and they open a dispute with paypal during these 2 months, then Paypal will look into us, if paypal can not find anything with the tracking number, they may ask us to refund the money.
But after customers get the refunding money, the goods finally arrives a few days later, will the customers send us the money back? For us, we not only loss the goods, but also loss the shipping cost, actually we get nothing.
If customers want to make the shipping cost lower by surface parcel of HK, sorry we have to ask them do TT or Western Union. We can not take all the risk by lossing goods or shipping cost.
So if EMS or some other express ways are avaliable, we can do Paypal.

Hope all of you can understand.
 
Sancho's Horse said:
April or Nancy or, actually I would love to know your real name. I have been following the Chinese battery market (among other markets), and I really appreciate your acknowledgement that there is a large market of fake A123 batteries, where it is nearly impossible to tell by appearances that they are fake. It is a difficult situation because the Western market is most likely to find batteries of this type... by the name A123, if searching. What do you call them otherwise and reach the same size of market?
Click to expand...

Hi Sancho's Horse,
Thank you very much for your pertinent and kind suggustions, I got it. I do appreciate your good analysis for all what you said.
To be honest, about the fake A123 20ah batteries, it is called by one of my regular customers.
Before he did business with us, he bought some cells from others with very low price, but when he got his batch, he felt good about the low price cells, because the appreance of the cells are beautiful and everything seemed ok.
But after he testing the cells, he was upset.because some of the cells without voltage, some of the cells with voltage but can NOT do discharge.
Then he made an enquiry about the cells from us, and bought some and also send us some samples of the fake cells to have a test.
The testing result was the same as the customer got, but we also found that the fake cells are less in weight about 100g than the genunie cells.
If you would like to know more information about the fake cells, I am sorry I have little knowledge about it. because we do not have this kind fake cells, just a few samples, we do not know where they are made.

By the way, welcome to China! :)
 
I do not have a problem with you using any name you like, and if it was read as an aspersion that is not what I meant. My wife's name is Sun Dan, and for the first couple of years in America she went by Susan. Some still call her by that. I like it that she now uses her real name with everybody she meets. I was interested in your name because I am making contact with people involved with batteries, and my wife would want to call you by your real name. But if your name was Huo Guo she would love you!

If the product is good what is the real complaint...Right? Lots of unnecessary headaches.
 
Sancho's Horse said:
I do not have a problem with you using any name you like, and if it was read as an aspersion that is not what I meant. My wife's name is Sun Dan, and for the first couple of years in America she went by Susan. Some still call her by that. I like it that she now uses her real name with everybody she meets. I was interested in your name because I am making contact with people involved with batteries, and my wife would want to call you by your real name. But if your name was Huo Guo she would love you!

If the product is good what is the real complaint...Right? Lots of unnecessary headaches.
Click to expand...

Hi Sancho's Horse,
I know you do not have problem with my name, but some others seem do not like my name.
My ES Forum ID is "April"(because I like April so much, it is the spring, we can see beautiful flowers and green grass here and there, which makes me so happy. so I named my ID name as April.
My working name or English name is Nancy, as I said, the pronunciation of "Lan" in Chinese is similar to "Nancy" in English.
My real name is Peng Lan, so if you like, maybe you can call me "Lan", I like it very much,because it makes me think about my parents, relatives, friends, they often call me "Lan". :)

To be honest, I feel so tired with all the things happened above,I know I am NOT the best sales girl and I did make a mistake by carenessless, but I am always trying my best to do better.
 
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