E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Theodore Voltaire · Dec 20, 2013

When I use the regen it loosens up my rear axle bolts, so I don't ever use it. I think it's really just more of an gimmick anyway that Stealth is forced to put on their bikes because other manufacturers do so. The amount of charging it does for street riding is so little it's not worth the trouble imo.

remf · Dec 20, 2013

I respectfully disagree TV. Regen isn't a gimmick. I average around 10% regen on hilly streets, energy that would otherwise have been wasted as heat off the brakes, not to mention massively reduced brake pad wear. It's usefulness is related to the steepness of the terrain on which you're riding as well as the actual surface. It's much more useful for street riding than off-road. On streets, I use it constantly, so much so that I only use the hydro's to come to a complete stop. Off-road, it's the opposite, I return to the hydro's and never touch the regen button.

remf · Dec 20, 2013

Also you can prevent axle slippage with an axle clamp or Loktite.

Theodore Voltaire · Dec 20, 2013

remf said:
Also you can prevent axle slippage with an axle clamp or Loktite.

If this is the axle clamp thing, it's not working.

remf · Dec 20, 2013

Strange, on my Bomber, the clamp prevents any slippage. I just make sure the bolts are tight, wheel aligned & chain tension is good before I ride, hardly ever any adjustments necessary. On my Fighter, I have no clamp, no Loktite and still no slippage and I use regen much more on the Fighter.

Theodore Voltaire · Dec 20, 2013

remf said:
Strange, on my Bomber, the clamp prevents any slippage. I just make sure the bolts are tight, wheel aligned & chain tension is good before I ride, hardly ever any adjustments necessary. On my Fighter, I have no clamp, no Loktite and still no slippage and I use regen much more on the Fighter.

Don't get me wrong, I think that clamp is a good thing. It surely will stop the axle from striping in the drop outs. Sometime I'll investigate what's going on, but right now I don't really care about the regen enough to bother. When I don't use it the axle bolt never comes lose.

Brute · Dec 20, 2013

Kepler said:
That is not good news Brute. Sorry to hear that. Is the knee replacement a viable option? A mate of mine who is just 51 has just had a hip replacement with great results.

They are suggesting it is a last resort , with a knee replacement all running & rotational sport ( where you twist & turn ) is out . I suspect it would be better than living with no ligaments though .As all rotational sports are out & it aches all the time . I See the surgeon again in early Jan .

Rix · Dec 20, 2013

Theodore Voltaire said:
When I use the regen it loosens up my rear axle bolts, so I don't ever use it. I think it's really just more of an gimmick anyway that Stealth is forced to put on their bikes because other manufacturers do so. The amount of charging it does for street riding is so little it's not worth the trouble imo.

TV, regen does work and work well. Its better at conserving brake pads than recharging the battery. I spoke with a guy that climbed pikes peak. He road back down that 19 mile long steep road, he recharged 100 watts into the battery from regen braking. considering how steep and long that road is, not much return. Wheel tightenging sequence is key to regen braking and not loosing up axle nuts. Always tighten the left side first, then the right, then your pinch torque arm@4nm. You wont have a problem with nuts loosening if you tighten in this order.

Rick

Theodore Voltaire · Dec 20, 2013

Maybe there's some technique I don't understand about that clamp. When I changed my tires, I just pulled the wheel off and put it back just like it came off. I never touched the clamp. When I got it back together, I thought it was just like before I took it apart. I didn't think you needed to touch the torque clamp?

rp3 · Dec 20, 2013

It was time for my Fighter to get some gears. One of the previous owners had removed the Schlumpf so it was like riding a 35kg(77lbs) BMX! :shock:

I was unimpressed with the slack in the torque plates so I added some torque washers to help.
Soooo much better with gears, did the first 10kms of my ride today through single tracks only using 1Ah.

..

Cowardlyduck · Dec 20, 2013

Nicely done. I can attest to the fact, even with a Shlumpf, how much more versatile the Fighter is with a derailleur.

Where can I get some of those torque washers, they look like a good solution. I have the same issue as TV, where the torque clamp doesn't prevent play in the axle. I would say this is partly due to the fact that the torque clamp notch is smaller than the dropout slot, letting it move under load.

Cheers

4Wude · Dec 21, 2013

Rix said:
Am I reading this correctly? The motor was red hot? If you got it that hot, your motor may be done. Put your nose as close to the motor as you can where the Phase wires exit the shell on the disk brake side. If it smells burnt, you have a problem.

Rick

i didn't smell anything burnt when it happened. I reset the BMS as others suggested and was able to charge my bike again. why exactly did I have to do that anyway? Had the batteries run flat?

the motor is working again....but for how long?

rp3 · Dec 21, 2013

Cowardlyduck said:
Where can I get some of those torque washers, they look like a good solution.

They are better than nothing, really nice tight fit too.
http://www.greenbikekit.com/index.php/accessories/e-bike-bldc-hub-motor-anti-torque-washers.html

...

Theodore Voltaire · Dec 21, 2013

Theodore Voltaire said:
remf said:

Also you can prevent axle slippage with an axle clamp or Loktite.

Click to expand...

If this is the axle clamp thing, it's not working.

Looking at the clamp I started thinking there's maybe a trick to it. Before you tighten the axle bolts, maybe you can use a wrench to twist the axle one way, while you twist the clamp the other way to take up any slight slop in the drop out, then tighten the clamp down, and tightening the axle bolts last.

Has anyone tried this?

Theodore Voltaire · Dec 21, 2013

remf said:
I respectfully disagree TV. Regen isn't a gimmick. I average around 10% regen on hilly streets, energy that would otherwise have been wasted as heat off the brakes, not to mention massively reduced brake pad wear. It's usefulness is related to the steepness of the terrain on which you're riding as well as the actual surface. It's much more useful for street riding than off-road. On streets, I use it constantly, so much so that I only use the hydro's to come to a complete stop. Off-road, it's the opposite, I return to the hydro's and never touch the regen button.

If I figure out how to stop it from loosening my axle bolts I'll probably have a higher opinion of it. As far as saving the brake pads, I was never concerned about that on any of my other bikes, but on this one I can see why that might be an issue.

Rix · Dec 21, 2013

Looking at the clamp I started thinking there's maybe a trick to it. Before you tighten the axle bolts, maybe you can use a wrench to twist the axle one way, while you twist the clamp the other way to take up any slight slop in the drop out, then tighten the clamp down, and tightening the axle bolts last.

I had the same problem with regen braking which caused me to build my own pinch torque arm because Stealth didn't offer it at the time. I got one now that I will put on when I get the 5405 laced up and going. What you said above is why I said tighten the left side first, what little play there is between the axle and dropout will be taken out by twisting the axle clock wise during the tightening process (Looking from left side of bike) until it stops in the dropout. This is the counter direction your axle rotates when you get on the gas. When that's done then tighten the right side, then take your pinch clamp torque arm, if the dropout tab is facing towards the rear, use your finger and push upward on it while you tighten the bolt. I have a home made pinch type torque arm I use. Its a little different with the set screws on top so I can take out all possible slack. But this the tightening process I use and it works.

Rix · Dec 21, 2013

4Wude said:
Rix said:

Am I reading this correctly? The motor was red hot? If you got it that hot, your motor may be done. Put your nose as close to the motor as you can where the Phase wires exit the shell on the disk brake side. If it smells burnt, you have a problem.

Rick

Click to expand...

i didn't smell anything burnt when it happened. I reset the BMS as others suggested and was able to charge my bike again. why exactly did I have to do that anyway? Had the batteries run flat?

the motor is working again....but for how long?

If it didn't smell burnt, and you haven't noticed any power loss when riding, your motor is probably fine. As far as reset on the BMS, the BMS tripped so you couldn't over discharge the battery and ruin it. Just note how many amps or watts you had consumed when your BMS tripped and try to avoid that. My battery on my Bomber has a total storage capacity around 1440HW based on settled voltage charge (80V x 18Ah). But if I go over 1290 WH consumed @ 70-85 F (26C) outside temp, or over 1310WH @ 100+ F (38C) outside temp, or 775WH at -11F (-24C) outside temp, and blip my throttle WOT, the bms LVC trips and cuts power off completely. Because of the 20% guideline that Remf and other mentioned earlier, I don't discharge more than 1200WH which is just a little more than 80%. Those number I referenced are from my own personal data findings and observations. IMO, it behooves the rider to know what his/her own battery's capabilities and limitations are so BMS shut down can be avoided.

Dlogic · Dec 21, 2013

Yeah Rix, same here my BMS is probably bored by now. It never had to cut the power in the last 2 years.

I do the same. Never discharging the battery to more then 1200 w/h. The pack is as good as new and shows no signs of failure at all. :mrgreen:

Stealth rules!

Theodore Voltaire · Dec 21, 2013

Rix said:
I had the same problem with regen braking which caused me to build my own pinch torque arm because Stealth didn't offer it at the time. I got one now that I will put on when I get the 5405 laced up and going. What you said above is why I said tighten the left side first, what little play there is between the axle and dropout will be taken out by twisting the axle clock wise during the tightening process (Looking from left side of bike) until it stops in the dropout. This is the counter direction your axle rotates when you get on the gas. When that's done then tighten the right side, then take your pinch clamp torque arm, if the dropout tab is facing towards the rear, use your finger and push upward on it while you tighten the bolt. I have a home made pinch type torque arm I use. Its a little different with the set screws on top so I can take out all possible slack. But this the tightening process I use and it works.

Yeah, because of your reply, that made me start thinking maybe it wasn't quite as simple as I was thinking (usually nothing ever is). When you said tighten the left axle bolt first, I started trying to understand why. I was thinking all along the problem is caused by slop in the drop out. The other clue was when you mentioned tightening the bolt in the clamp. I never touched that bolt when I put the wheel on, so I wondered why you needed to. That's when the little light went off in my head. Then I realized what you were trying to tell me. I guess this is common knowledge for experienced ebike owners, but I'm a noobe. I don't think any other kinds of bikes have this problem.

It would be nice if the owners manual explained about this, instead of having to find out the hard way. Still, I give them credit for adding the clamp in the first place.

Kepler · Dec 21, 2013

rp3 said:
It was time for my Fighter to get some gears. One of the previous owners had removed the Schlumpf so it was like riding a 35kg(77lbs) BMX!
I was unimpressed with the slack in the torque plates so I added some torque washers to help.
Soooo much better with gears, did the first 10kms of my ride today through single tracks only using 1Ah.

..

How did you go welding the hanger on?. Also, any problems with the chain coming off the chain ring now the derailleur is fitted? What shifter and derailleur did you go with?

10km and 1AH wow. looks like you have 160km range now :mrgreen:

Sorry I missed that ride yesterday. Anyway, should have plenty of opportunity of the next couple of weeks.

Allex · Dec 21, 2013

My dropouts is super tight. I have to bank the wheel out and bank it in again. I never had the problem with loose axle.
At first I thought, maybe I should grind the axle/dropouts down a bit so I dont have to use force when taking the wheel off. But maybe I Should not do it, if the axle is a little loose then maybe I have to cope with your problem Theo, Axle loosening.

If you like to go slow, and want to have a good range, than Regen is perfect for that. When I go at bicycle speeds I usually have 7% of regen back. I dont care about the pads live, with my riding style I can have the pads for 3000km but they are cheap so nothing to worry about anyway.

Kepler · Dec 21, 2013

4Wude said:
Rix said:

Am I reading this correctly? The motor was red hot? If you got it that hot, your motor may be done. Put your nose as close to the motor as you can where the Phase wires exit the shell on the disk brake side. If it smells burnt, you have a problem.

Rick

Click to expand...

i didn't smell anything burnt when it happened. I reset the BMS as others suggested and was able to charge my bike again. why exactly did I have to do that anyway? Had the batteries run flat?

the motor is working again....but for how long?

Glad to hear you got the bike up and running again. You are welcome :wink:.

to figure out what happened you need to give us a bit more info. Was the pack quite low when you were pushing up the hill? How many WHrs had you used before the shutdown? What Voltage were you down too? What is the LVC set in the CA?

As Rix mentioned, you can trip the BMS under hard load when the pack is close to empty. If this was the case, then all is normal. A more conservative LVC setting will help prevent BMS shutdown under these conditions and is worth considering. Experienced Stealth riders tend to set the LVC a little lower than stock and understand how to ride around this. Stock varies from 70V to 72V. I Would recommend you set the LVC to 72V for now and see how that goes. If you still hit the hard BMS cutout, further investigation is required.

rp3 · Dec 21, 2013

Kepler said:
How did you go welding the hanger on?. Also, any problems with the chain coming off the chain ring now the derailleur is fitted? What shifter and derailleur did you go with?
10km and 1AH wow. looks like you have 160km range now

No welding, I just used a 7 speed derailleur as in the pic and modified the opening a little so it's a snug fit on the flat. Then it's just sandwiched between a washer and torque washer. Using an upside down 7 speed twist shifter on the left hand side. Surprisingly the chain only came off once yesterday which is pretty good considering the terrain and the now poor chainline angles. I'd still like to put some sort of chain guide on there at some stage, but man the nice ones are super expensive. :shock:

160km range would be nice, too bad my legs and bum wouldn't think so!

Brute · Dec 21, 2013

rp3 said:
:

No welding, I just used a 7 speed derailleur as in the pic and modified the opening a little so it's a snug fit on the flat. Then it's just sandwiched between a washer and torque washer. Using an upside down 7 speed twist shifter on the left hand side. Surprisingly the chain only came off once yesterday which is pretty good considering the terrain and the now poor chainline angles. I'd still like to put some sort of chain guide on there at some stage, but man the nice ones are super expensive. :shock:

160km range would be nice, too bad my legs and bum wouldn't think so!

[/quote]

Nice work on the derailer , I`ve been humming & harring about doing this for a while . I`d be happy if i could find a cluster with 3 or 4 gears on it , I reckon thats all you`d need & the chain won`t be so angled at times . I don`t think such a cluster exists though .

korpin · Dec 21, 2013

is it possible to get a stealth fighter with a 2.5 schlumph instead of the 1.6?....seems like that is the way to go if you are gonna up the voltage

also on a side note anybody have a fighter with burnt up motor/electronics for sale?...I would like to start with a fighter frame and build it to my liking

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