A2B Metro - www.ultramotor.com - Video Page4

The Stig · Post by **The Stig** » Dec 14 2013 6:59pm

He puts foam padding all around the cells and then what seems like a fiberglass card over that. If the fit is too loose you could always add more foam layers over the cells. The only 40 BMSs available are 14s (58.8V off the charger) and 10s. There is a 13s but its kind of wimpy - 14ga discharge wires

...as you can see, the BMSs in question are the "Li-Ion" type: http://em3ev.com/store/index.php?route= ... &order=ASC

Post by **Ypedal** » Dec 14 2013 6:59pm

Going much over 12s is really not worth it unless you gut the stock controller, i really hate that soft start... being used to my 100v bikes lol..

The Stig · Post by **The Stig** » Dec 14 2013 7:02pm

Yeah, switching to one of cell mans controllers would be a huge improvement over the stock controller.

Well maybe he could build One 10s7p battery for you and One 14s5p battery for me. They both consist of 70cells

joepah · Post by **joepah** » Dec 15 2013 7:15am

Ypedal wrote:Going much over 12s is really not worth it unless you gut the stock controller, i really hate that soft start... being used to my 100v bikes lol..

Agreed about the soft start... The price of reliability. Was getting tired of the high temperature cutout in July 15 miles from home...

So the 12S LiFePO4 BMS by Cell man looks good.. either the 25a or 40a would be more than enough for the stock controller.

I think I would probably mail my old battery case to cell man, assuming i can disassemble without destruction...

The Stig · Post by **The Stig** » Dec 16 2013 12:48pm

I asked cell man about sending my battery case/box in but he said NO. Maybe you can get a different answer, if so let me know!

I'm not aware of what LIFePO4 cells he has apart from a123 20AH cells... ?

joepah · Post by **joepah** » Dec 17 2013 7:25pm

Looks like my Metro will be sold tomorrow... maybe.. sniff...

$800
Selling my well used 2009 A2B Metro Electric Bicycle, to make room for a newer faster one. Love these Bikes!

Will deliver locally for free.

A second battery that mounts on the back is available for $300. Will double the range.

This bicycle is used every day and can attest to its reliability.
Always stored inside a garage, battery was charged according to the manual.
8000 Miles on the included bicycle computer.
Currently getting 11 miles per charge.. .Factory will tell you 20 miles, but that is optimistic.
Top Speed 19 mph.
New tires 2012.. Upgraded to Moped tires and thorn resistant tubes.. No flats, holds pressure, unlike the factory p.o.s.
New rear disc pads. Fronts are still good.
Paint still shiny black, but there are scratches and signs of wear through out, including throttle grip and fenders.

Included in Sale:
2009 A2B Metro by Ultramotor
2 sets of keys
Charger
Manual
Specialized wireless bike computer.
Mirabell
Old bike bag.

deepfraught · Post by **deepfraught** » Dec 17 2013 11:33pm

This is my gold nugget on display, a brand new 14s 26Ah triangle pack from cellman, to go with a front mac pick'n'mix kit from him.
When I was sizing it up and considering what frames it might end up on, I did this with the measurements and factored it could be a potential long range auxiliary tank, but riding enough to consume 46Ah on the bike (with 2 x 10Ah in frame and rear case) would probably mean I'm unemployed and should be job searching instead of riding.

Post by **Ypedal** » Dec 18 2013 8:03am

Hey now, ( I resemble that remark

) .. could be job searching in the next city !

joepah · Post by **joepah** » Dec 18 2013 11:54am

Nice look DeepFraught! I'm assuming you've dumped the stock controller at this point.

Could you please tell me how you wired the CellMan pack to the controller/motor? The Metro rear batter has a five pin connector and I have no idea what two of them are for... thanks

The Stig · Post by **The Stig** » Dec 19 2013 3:39pm

I like the fatbike! you should electrify it and give it a front suspension fork

Joepah did you ask cell man if he would take the a2b internal battery case the fitting of new cells?

deepfraught · Post by **deepfraught** » Jan 10 2014 2:23am

Joepah, I am not using the triangle battery pack on the A2B, just placed it there naked and in soft bag to give you guys photos, where I just did measurement checks before ordering for potential use alternative/future use on the A2B before I got the battery. The flat sides of the pack and the A2B frame would make a DIY removable case slightly easier/stronger/simpler than in round tube bicycle triangles. Not a likely scenario for myself, but spending some big $$$ on a battery that should perform well for a long time, it's nice to consider alternative uses for it. I don't want to have the equivalent of a big headway brick that doesn't get used.
Another option I'd be tempted with is to strap on EM3EV's new 48V 11Ah bottle battery slide to the frame, and use that as a removable battery instead of even the rear OEM case battery. If your OEM frame battery is aging in that scenario, keep it as a secondary backup that you don't use unless necessary.

I've just spent a week on my new 'one bike' intended electric enjoyable to pedal commuter (build thread link in my sig soon), but it has made me appreciate again the luxury and good factory package the A2B Metro is.

joepah · Post by **joepah** » Jan 13 2014 6:20pm

Thanks deepfraught.... Good approach on your part. You just got my hopes up I guess...lol

Stig, I ended up selling my A2B and bought a new left over Stromer Elite.. It was a deal too good to pass up.

And as much as I love the Metro, the Stromer is a better all around bike, especially with the torque sensor.. In Peddle Assist Power Mode I can easily cruise at 23 mph for 22 miles.. something I couldn't do with the Metro. The motor/controller is the same as the Metro, but it doesn't have the same torque off the line since its a 26 inch tire. Hydraulic brake and 27 speeds and air shock Radions just make it a better bike.

What I miss about the Metro is the frame design and 20 inch tires...

The Stig · Post by **The Stig** » Jan 14 2014 2:41pm

Congrats buddy! Does the strommer come in a rear suspension model? The metro was hindered by its lack of power/weight and poor throttle control/lack of PAS, for sure...

Murph · Post by **Murph** » Feb 09 2014 5:58pm

I have a 2010 A2B and am looking to upgrade the motor, controller, and battery. I like the crystalyte HS35 kit from ebikes.ca Where would I get an upgraded battery for this kit that could replace the stock frame battery?

The Stig · Post by **The Stig** » Feb 10 2014 12:55pm

Murph wrote:I have a 2010 A2B and am looking to upgrade the motor, controller, and battery. I like the crystalyte HS35 kit from ebikes.ca Where would I get an upgraded battery for this kit that could replace the stock frame battery?

I was thinking of getting some custom in-frame batteries made from cell man (em3ev.com). If we order soon while its still winter and hes not too busy he may be interested. I could do all the correspondence with cell man to save him time from having to respond to multiple people. At the end we would pay for our batteries individually.

Read JoePah's and my posts from this post onwards: http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/vi ... 75#p769768

Let me know if your interested. Anyone is welcome btw

commuter5 · Post by **commuter5** » Feb 11 2014 7:38pm

joepah wrote:
deepfraught wrote:Check your frame from underside and thoroughly cleaned before dropping big $$$ into new batteries.

My frame with cracks from the drain and cable holes finally let go, spread to swingarm weld and snapped the banana swinger like... A banana. Locked rear wheel on rear battery pack was good because it didn't have leverage to snap clean through, so no damage to the wiring.

I spoke to seller on eBay with frame for sale, no swinger, as it snapped at the dropouts.

When I got this 3rd frame/bike it was cheap and I had a feeling the decent size guy had carried people on the back at times.

I continued riding it regardless dropping off curbs (the final shock that snapped the swingarm) but it wasn't the big cracks I was monitoring that got me.

There are some odd cast lines in the fork that made me nervous, but same across 3 bikes so I was comfortable it was not a crack.

It is all repairable, but I have a preference for steel for future I have one dead controller motor and one dead frame so still serviceable fleet for a while.
Thanks for the heads up, DeepFraught...I checked the drain hole and bulkhead fitting for the wiring and didn't notice any cracks... Unless the paint is removed you really can't tell unless its pretty bad My swingarm failed at the weld about 2 years ago, and it was replaced under warranty.. Since I probably have more miles on my Metro than most people, 8000 miles, I really don't know where the next failure will be... Been pretty good to me overall...

Looks like cracked swingarms are a common thing with the early Metros. Mine snapped almost completely off during a routine commute two days ago. Was lucky to be able to bring it to a stop. The bike is a 2010 model, second-hand, so not covered by the warranty.

Post by **Ypedal** » Feb 11 2014 7:39pm

Yikes !!

rider weight ?

Post by **fechter** » Feb 11 2014 7:45pm

Better go check my frame

The Stig · Post by **The Stig** » Feb 11 2014 10:47pm

wow... gonna stick a new generation swing arm on it?

deepfraught · Post by **deepfraught** » Feb 11 2014 10:58pm

My swingarm with those cracks was the new generation with speedo, my two 2010 don't have any sign of frame issues, but have had very easy lives.
I think the new gen swingarm that cracked had a heavier original owner, possibly with people riding on the rear, as well as the rear battery pack.
I kept riding it the same as normal, dropping off curbs with the hairline cracks that did it in.

Post by **fechter** » Feb 17 2014 11:35am

It looks like it may be possible to reinforce the swing arm by adding a pair of stainless steel aircraft cables running from near the dropouts to somewhere around the kick stand mount. I think it would barely clear the chain but looks possible. This would triangulate the swing arm and take most of the bending stress off the place where it tends to crack.

joepah · Post by **joepah** » Feb 19 2014 1:36pm

commuter5 wrote:
joepah wrote:
deepfraught wrote:Check your frame from underside and thoroughly cleaned before dropping big $$$ into new batteries.

Looks like cracked swingarms are a common thing with the early Metros. Mine snapped almost completely off during a routine commute two days ago. Was lucky to be able to bring it to a stop. The bike is a 2010 model, second-hand, so not covered by the warranty.

Looks like yours failed in the HAZ and not the weld itself.. Sorry to see that. The FL distributor told me at the time in 2011 mine was the 2nd swingarm failure... Now the hours are accumulating and the failure are ramping up.

The Stig · Post by **The Stig** » Feb 19 2014 1:41pm

Do you think they missed the step of heat treating the swing arms parts after welding them together??

commuter5 · Post by **commuter5** » Feb 23 2014 6:02am

Ypedal wrote:Re: A2B Metro - www.ultramotor.com - Video Page4
by Ypedal » Tue Feb 11, 2014 7:39 pm

Yikes !!

rider weight ?

Rider weight = 80kg+5kg satchel. No extra loading apart from rear battery.

The second hand replacement swingarm was also already showing hairline cracks in the same locations. Definitely a design flaw.

The Stig · Post by **The Stig** » Feb 24 2014 1:14am

@CommuterS: Or a Manufacturing flaw?!!

The Stig wrote:Do you think they missed the step of heat treating the swing arms parts after welding them together??

It seems plausible since they crack right next to the welds... like the welding caused the surrounding AL to become too brittle or soft(whichever way it goes)?