LockH
1 PW
And:
Penn Senate Bill now open for public [C]omments online, here:
http://legiscan.com/PA/votes/SB997/2013
Pennsylvania Senate Bill 997
- Thread starter LockH
- Start date
And:
Penn Senate Bill now open for public [C]omments online, here:
http://legiscan.com/PA/votes/SB997/2013
deardancer3
10 kW
The definition looks good, (Would prefer 1000w and 25mph).
However, what else is involved other than defining a vehicle?
Are the e-bikes allowed/disallowed on certain roads, lanes, paths, etc?
Will county or city governments have the ability to change the definition , or where allowed?
What is the fine for breaking the regulation?
However, what else is involved other than defining a vehicle?
Are the e-bikes allowed/disallowed on certain roads, lanes, paths, etc?
Will county or city governments have the ability to change the definition , or where allowed?
What is the fine for breaking the regulation?
LockH
1 PW
deardancer3 said:
"Defining the vehicle"? I might assume in accordance with other US laws (750W continuous, 20 mph). But I didn't read the proposed legislation word for word.
Ditto for your other concerns.
dogman dan
1 PW
Definitions is in a way, the most important part of the MV codes in any given area. In my state, there is no such thing as an ebike. So we have to make due with moped law written for gas engines. This means I am not allowed on any bike path or trail. But it's just so vague here still that I just ride them anyway with no problems. Clown pedal and nobody thinks a thing.
Very likely, this will clarify that below 750w, its a "bike" and will then be allowed on a path that is barred to stand up scoots, etc. The 100 pound limit will allow a typical commuter bike, but quite possibly bar the "looks like a scooter" types of e bikes. For sure, the heavier versions with 20 ah of 60v in lead should be over 100 lbs.
The wattage thing of course, we know how to fudge.
Very likely, this will clarify that below 750w, its a "bike" and will then be allowed on a path that is barred to stand up scoots, etc. The 100 pound limit will allow a typical commuter bike, but quite possibly bar the "looks like a scooter" types of e bikes. For sure, the heavier versions with 20 ah of 60v in lead should be over 100 lbs.
The wattage thing of course, we know how to fudge.
LockH
1 PW
Stuff I wrote in a message online back in Jul 11, 2009. In part:
I wish I could speak with these legislators in PA. One might suggest they are about to make a horrible error. (Pandering to the FEAR and IGNORANCE of others.)
I have already [C]ommented (tried to):
But of course, not one human animal "Liked" THAT comment.
I wish I could speak with these legislators in PA. One might suggest they are about to make a horrible error. (Pandering to the FEAR and IGNORANCE of others.)
I have already [C]ommented (tried to):
Lock
Early last year, the Dutch reported "One million e-cyclists" (on Dutch roads, in 2012, according to their count), seen here:
http://www.fietsberaad.nl/index.cfm?lang=en§ion=nieuws&mode=newsArticle&newsYear=2013&repository=One+million+e-cyclists
(The pop of that country isn't much bigger than the pop in the whole State of Penn. Hint: About 30% of their land is now underwater, plus there are no hills to speak of. It is possible some Dutch are aging.
Reply · Like
Unfollow Post · March 20 at 9:59pm
But of course, not one human animal "Liked" THAT comment.
In Iowa electric bicycles can be prohibited from off-road paths and trails by specifying 'electric bicycles', but they aren't included in 'motorized vehicles'. Bicycles can't be prohibited from public streets or highways, including the interstate.deardancer3 said:
This defines two conditions and allows for the power to be applied above 20 MPH if human power is added. The 20 MPH thing is silly and has been deleted from a proposed revision here in Iowa.
LockH
1 PW
Yay! (One might suggest the potatoes really ARE sweeter than in Idaho.):
http://www.leopold.iastate.edu/news/11-26-2013/growing-sweet-potatoes-iowa
"human power, tailwind, or gravity is added."
Two or three ebiker thumbs up (and maybe the odd toe or two) to "wind" (solar) plus gravity... "Human power", maybe only barely tolerated `cause some crazy old military dude from KY cooks up those other animals (typically feathered, AFAIK).
http://www.leopold.iastate.edu/news/11-26-2013/growing-sweet-potatoes-iowa
"human power, tailwind, or gravity is added."
Two or three ebiker thumbs up (and maybe the odd toe or two) to "wind" (solar) plus gravity... "Human power", maybe only barely tolerated `cause some crazy old military dude from KY cooks up those other animals (typically feathered, AFAIK).
Dauntless
100 TW
Office Depot has peel and stick you can print on. I'm sure it can be found elsewhere too.
http://www.officedepot.com/a/products/284937/EZ-Art-Peel-And-Stick-Sheet/
http://www.officedepot.com/a/products/284937/EZ-Art-Peel-And-Stick-Sheet/
LockH
1 PW
View attachment Power-assisted.bmp
Works for most provinces in Canada. (Print extra copies for wattEVer... no charge.) :lol:
Works for most provinces in Canada. (Print extra copies for wattEVer... no charge.) :lol:
dogman dan
1 PW
I agree, not allowing stand up scooters of similar power and weight as the ebike would be a mistake. It's really dumb, particularly since a 200w stand up scoot works much better for the last mile type commutes combining bus or train.
However, we are looking at the bike definition. Is there a scooter definition proposed?
However, we are looking at the bike definition. Is there a scooter definition proposed?
LockH
1 PW
Hehe... According to one theory, having read the thread here "How would you write ideal ebike regulations (Original plus Part 2), some might conclude that according to the Universal Rules of Travel (proposed for the GEBA Krew, and all others) ANY "rules" are fundamentally flawed (eg they might assume some might not respect their neighbors).
LockH
1 PW
ANY "rules" are fundamentally flawed
cal3thousand
10 MW
At least they don't define the maximum speed allowed with combined pedal and electric power. That means you can pedal up to 30mph if your motor only does the lower 20mph. Sure the top 10mph will be harder, but cops don't necessarily know that.
"Officer, I was going 30. But my bike does 20 of those and I only do the other 10"
"Officer, I was going 30. But my bike does 20 of those and I only do the other 10"
deardancer3
10 kW
"capable of a speed not more than 20 miles per hour on a level surface when powered by the motor source only. "
I thought that wording could mean-- that as long as the above limitation is true, then with additional leg power, the motor may continue to assist to faster speeds?
sometimes this happens by design, sometimes by accident.
not exactly sure my interpretation is correct though.
d
I thought that wording could mean-- that as long as the above limitation is true, then with additional leg power, the motor may continue to assist to faster speeds?
sometimes this happens by design, sometimes by accident.
not exactly sure my interpretation is correct though.
d
When considered from the perspective of enforcement, they would have to apply physics equations to any situation where you were not on a level surface while going more than 20 MPH while not pedaling. This, and the fact that pedaling can induce a destabilizing dynamic, makes the provision silly.deardancer3 said:
Notice this refinement compared to the many state laws now existing. They have removed any ambiguity about motor ratings by specifying 'motor system' and allowed for more than one motor. I like it better than Iowa's vague 'motor' reference which some might interpret as restriction to a discretely single motor (noun), as opposed to motor (adjective), which would allow any combination of discrete motors.
LockH
1 PW
Yaknow... Perhaps some here might move their conversation over to that other thread? (Where some may laugh at them in private.)
You talkin' to me?LockH said:
I agree that at least by virtue of equivalency with the potential danger to the general public represented by a horse driven carriage, there need be no special regulation for two-wheeled conveyances where the operator is clearly at as much risk of his own injury, if not more, than the driver of the horse conveyance.
We don't need regulation. We need to hold drivers accountable for injuring and murdering.
LockH
1 PW
"You talkin' to me?"
If you re-read what I wrote, you may notice I was carefull not to suggest any names. (Of either the "guilty", etc.)
"We don't need regulation. We need to hold drivers accountable for injuring and murdering."
Simple solution, maybe.
Just put parent names (the parents of the vehicle operator) in a big hat.
Once a year, draw one name from that hat.
Then, parents and friends of those lost (or maybe severely injured/scarred for life), toss loser boy (or grrrl) off a tall cliff (saves bullets, electricity, prison food, etc., etc., and more importantly sends a warning to other parents or prospective/wannabe vehicle operators.)
(See also Doggie Treats for Master DMs friends, et al.)
((Sorry about the Latin.))
If you re-read what I wrote, you may notice I was carefull not to suggest any names. (Of either the "guilty", etc.)
"We don't need regulation. We need to hold drivers accountable for injuring and murdering."
Simple solution, maybe.
Just put parent names (the parents of the vehicle operator) in a big hat.
Once a year, draw one name from that hat.
Then, parents and friends of those lost (or maybe severely injured/scarred for life), toss loser boy (or grrrl) off a tall cliff (saves bullets, electricity, prison food, etc., etc., and more importantly sends a warning to other parents or prospective/wannabe vehicle operators.)
(See also Doggie Treats for Master DMs friends, et al.)
((Sorry about the Latin.))
aroundqube
10 kW
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2012
- Messages
- 577
Looking at www.legis.state.pa Senate Roll Calls March 31,2014 " Final Passage " - YEAS 47 , NAYS 0 ,LVE 0, N/V 2 - Total 49 Referred to TRANSPORTATION April 2,2014
aroundqube
10 kW
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2012
- Messages
- 577
http://www.ebikekit.com/blog/electric-bike-law-pa/
LockH
1 PW
aroundqube said:
"Electric Bikes Are Now Legal on Pennsylvania Roadways!"... Haven't read, but assume there is a "catch".
See also maybe:
https://www.southpa.aaa.com/about-us/our-history
aroundqube
10 kW
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2012
- Messages
- 577
It looks like the text could be here; printers number 4170 http://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/billinfo/billinfo.cfm?syear=2013&sind=0&body=H&type=B&bn=573
John in CR
100 TW
LockH said:
Yeah there are plenty of "catches", since it's obvious that pedalists wrote the law. If I lived in PA it would piss me off just enough to build a "legal" ebike using a hubmotor tested and rated at 750W at 1rpm as well as rated at 750W at 12V, which is all the battery that would be attached to the bike. I'd carry the other 62V in a backpack to stay within the weight limit. While the throttle would have a hard limit of 20mph, pedal assist would unleash full power and speed to make it safe in traffic. That would enable me to run my extreme power ebike within the law by simply installing the chain with crazy high gearing, adding a PAS sensor, and adjusting the voltage output of the throttle.
