Nova Cruz Voloci Re-vamp

Show off your E-Scooter or Motorcycle creation here.
User avatar
skeetab5780   10 MW

10 MW
Posts: 2127
Joined: Jun 15 2009 10:58pm
Location: MA
Contact:

Nova Cruz Voloci Re-vamp

Post by skeetab5780 » Mar 26 2014 6:57pm

Nova Cruz Voloci Project

After seeing a few photos of this bike that caught my attention, I started doing a little digging(a lot). After searching for a few weeks on Craigslist and Ebay, one finally turned up for the right price!($175)
I thought about buying it for nearly 2 days before i clicked the "buy it now" button, since it was over 500 miles from where i live and i had to pick it up. Finally I decided to just do it. Luckily i had a friend going to Atlantic City and he offered to pick it up for me. It worked out really well..but i was ready to drive down myself :)

The bike seems as it was neglected by being left outside a lot, although it doesn't seem to have been ridden too much.
Anyway I've since put about 20 hours of labor into it, scrubbing rust off the rims, removing old dust and grime, and of course.. tearing the entire thing apart and rebuilding it the way i'd like.

Here are some stock pictures before i tore all the OEM parts off (i kept everything intact just for kicks) but time to mess with it..
Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

I did like the stock look of the Voloci but i wanted to shed all unnecessary parts from the bike for a while to
1. reduce weight/clutter
2. rewire/replace the entire main harness
3. clean all the parts individually
4. convert the lighting to LED
5. a lot of the parts were in need of replacement/repair

Here are a few photo's as i take things apart.

Handlebars are slightly bent, but i moved them forward a bit to compensate. I may end up replacing them and possibly the front fork.
Image

There was about 2 inches of caked dirt/debris under the chain cover!
Image

Altho the underside of the cover on the controller side is super shiny still, there is a nice sealing gasket on that side.
Image

Here are a few shots of the stock controller and wiring.
Image
.
Image
.
Image

Controller removed. I must say this is a fairly nice controller. But i have different plans at the moment...more on that later
Image
.
Image
.
Image
.
Image
.
Image

Here i start to situate the wiring and get ready to test a few controllers with this motor.
Image

After a quick test with a 36v 20a controller i saw that the motor still works fine, so i immediately went on to bigger and better things. What can i say my curiosity got the best of me. After all the motor does have a 48v 1000w rating. Went to a 48v controller...that worked, so i went to 72v for a test.

This was with 20s limited to about 20 amps. Its a no go. Its not geared for it and has zero torque at low speeds and takes too long to get up to speed. The motor would also fall apart at those RPMs for too long it seems. I made sure not to stress/overheat it. got up to a good 40mph tho
Image
.
Image
.
Image
.
Image
.
Image
Now that i know the motor works I brought it back into the workshop...(my house)
I wanted to remove the last part of the stock wiring system that was causing me some routing/pathing problems. This is the one part that i had to break to remove, or else i would have had to completely take the frame apart to keep it intact.

I also removed the rear triangle cross brace to access the area i was working in. And in the next few pictures you can notice the pegs are removed as well. There is a nice hollow sleeve pressed under them that mounts part of the rear suspension system
Image
.
Image
.
Image
.
Image

From this angle you can see the area i opened up for wiring purposes. The plastic block that was removed housed the 3 point battery attachment terminals.
Image
.
Image
.
Image

I think I'm going to add some hollow aluminum sleeve/spacers around those black allen hex bolts to secure the two frame halves together better now that I've removed that terminal block. But it is still plenty solid.
Image

Also cleaned/lubed the chain while i was here, and loosened the rear wheel and tightened the chain to the Voloci manual specs.

Image

Here you can see i installed the 36v controller to the cross brace triangle and mounted the stock(empty) battery housing for placement to get an idea of how much room i have for routing wires. Underneath the Voloci battery tray there is a neat plastic channel for running wires thru up to the handlebars. It is almost like a flat raceway.

I soldered longer wires onto my controller and fed them thru my wiring guide and prepared to wire the throttle and OEM key switch into the circuit.
Image
.
Image

you can see my red/black main leads before i cut the T connector off it and heat shrunk them.
Image

All connections made and everything tested out in working order!
Image

Soldered a new 2 conductor cable to the stock OEM key switch and heat shrunk the exposed wires. Then wired it into the mix.
Image
.
Image

Connections soldered and wires heat shrunk. Then put cover back on until the next steps...
Image
.
Image

Thanks for browsing! Voloci #1 I put the rear rack back on cause it looks cool.

User avatar
Scoot440   1 W

1 W
Posts: 54
Joined: Nov 04 2011 9:17am
Location: Lubbock, TX

Re: Nova Cruz Voloci Re-vamp

Post by Scoot440 » Mar 27 2014 10:06am

Thanks for documenting and posting this! I have a Voloci gathering dust in my project pile and this inspires me to get to work on it!
Scoot440
Lubbock,TX

electricalbicycle   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 41
Joined: Jan 22 2013 2:59pm

Re: Nova Cruz Voloci Re-vamp

Post by electricalbicycle » Mar 28 2014 8:21pm

Saw that bike on ebay and wanted to buy (it was really cheap) but he wouldn't ship and that was that. Glad to see an enthusiast got it and that you are posting your ideas and results. I already like what you did with the battery (more details, please).
One thing you will find is that the stock Voloci throttle only goes from about 0 to 2.5V rather than the 0 to 5V your controller is probably expecting.
"Mopedmart" on ebay got many of the moped parts from whoever was building Volocis at the time when they went out of business. Mopedmart has the stock Voloci handlebars, headlight, forks, rear shock, controls, disc brakes, tires, headset nut, mirrors and left handlebar switch. Mopedmart has some Voloci moped parts but not things like the controller, throttle, motor, battery pack, etc.
I am troubled by the motor's Hall sensor timing as the motor stator can turn (in theory) and the Halls aren't fastened to that but rather to the frame.
I called/emailed Kollmorgen but they no longer support that motor.
Also checked with SAFT who makes the NiMH battery pack but they don't have the original drawing/spec for the battery pack and it would have been roughly 3X what they are available for locally and would take months to get here from France anyway.
Two things that I did was to replace the brakes immediately with Avid BB7 180 mm and to add the TrailTech Striker gauges (especially good for Voltage and lets you set TWO low Voltage alarms). I did LED lights but kept the Halogen headlight and replaced the flasher with one for LED lights.
The Voloci failed partly because of the battery technology. You seem to be using modern technology and I would like to know more about what cells you are using, what BMS and where it is located, what charger you are using. Are you planning to have a removable battery pack?

flathill   100 kW

100 kW
Posts: 1263
Joined: Jul 06 2010 9:26pm

Re: Nova Cruz Voloci Re-vamp

Post by flathill » Mar 28 2014 8:32pm

nice score
keep the original clean look

nova cruz was way ahead of their time

Their scooter was bad ass
made in america including the bldc motor and sinus controller
made in 1999
dot com bust killed em

Image
Image

User avatar
skeetab5780   10 MW

10 MW
Posts: 2127
Joined: Jun 15 2009 10:58pm
Location: MA
Contact:

Re: Nova Cruz Voloci Re-vamp

Post by skeetab5780 » Mar 29 2014 9:04am

Scoot440 wrote:Thanks for documenting and posting this! I have a Voloci gathering dust in my project pile and this inspires me to get to work on it!
My pleasure. You should post photos of yours as well if you decide to dust her off! I could not pass up on this bike even tho i already have 4 others. Like most EV enthusiasts things tend to get out of hand :) I really like the look and feel of the Voloci but unfortunately I have a need for more power/speed. I have a few different plans to change things drastically, none of which are actually set in stone.
electricalbicycle wrote:Saw that bike on ebay and wanted to buy (it was really cheap) but he wouldn't ship and that was that. Glad to see an enthusiast got it and that you are posting your ideas and results. I already like what you did with the battery (more details, please).
One thing you will find is that the stock Voloci throttle only goes from about 0 to 2.5V rather than the 0 to 5V your controller is probably expecting.
"Mopedmart" on ebay got many of the moped parts from whoever was building Volocis at the time when they went out of business. Mopedmart has the stock Voloci handlebars, headlight, forks, rear shock, controls, disc brakes, tires, headset nut, mirrors and left handlebar switch. Mopedmart has some Voloci moped parts but not things like the controller, throttle, motor, battery pack, etc.
I am troubled by the motor's Hall sensor timing as the motor stator can turn (in theory) and the Halls aren't fastened to that but rather to the frame.
I called/emailed Kollmorgen but they no longer support that motor.
Also checked with SAFT who makes the NiMH battery pack but they don't have the original drawing/spec for the battery pack and it would have been roughly 3X what they are available for locally and would take months to get here from France anyway.
Two things that I did was to replace the brakes immediately with Avid BB7 180 mm and to add the TrailTech Striker gauges (especially good for Voltage and lets you set TWO low Voltage alarms). I did LED lights but kept the Halogen headlight and replaced the flasher with one for LED lights.
The Voloci failed partly because of the battery technology. You seem to be using modern technology and I would like to know more about what cells you are using, what BMS and where it is located, what charger you are using. Are you planning to have a removable battery pack?
Great information in this post! You told me a few things i already did not know. I also tried to see if he would ship the item, he must have got sick of the emails :) I couldn't not buy it at that price tho! all that sleek aluminum!

I do have Avid brakes/rotors ill be putting on too.I may end up swapping front ends(new fork/hub/bars) The 2 Nimh packs that came with the bike seem to actually work still. One has 25volts in it and the other had about 4volts. I trickle charged both batteries separately over the course of an entire day and they are each holding steady around 37volts. I did a simple discharge of 5-10amps for a few minutes and they worked well. They are super heavy tho! i will probably get rid of them to someone who is in need of batteries, i have lithium cells all over the place.

I did notice the bike seems a little naked now without the headlight especially, this will also pose an issue if i swap to a downhill fork. I'll just have to machine a new bracket to mount it.

I'm doing a little research on the new BHT motors that are coming to market. And one of my plans was to try and retro-fit the guts of it inside the Voloci motor housing. I have not opened it yet, but it looks like it may be possible with a little light machining of the shaft.

I have a few types of lithium 18650 cells at the moment none of which run a BMS as of now, I use the BC168 chargers and add balance leads to all of my packs, and balance charge every charge. I have a cheap buzzer alarm for a LVC. This has worked out good for me in the past, but last year i did have a cell group go out on one of my packs. And it caused lots of damage to the entire pack in general.
flathill wrote:nice score
keep the original clean look

nova cruz was way ahead of their time

Their scooter was bad ass
made in america including the bldc motor and sinus controller
made in 1999
dot com bust killed em

Image
Image
Thanks for posting! Those little scooters kick! literally.

Yes the design of the Voloci is just so sleek. I am a fan of how it looks and i will try my best to keep it that way.

BikeFanatic   1 kW

1 kW
Posts: 408
Joined: Nov 19 2011 10:58am
Location: Massachusetts

Re: Nova Cruz Voloci Re-vamp

Post by BikeFanatic » Mar 29 2014 9:58am

Looking good !

Those Voloci batteries charge to 41 volts so yours maybe toast, however i found cycling them revived them a bit. Still I only get 4 amphrs out of
them , that is not much for a 20 lb battery .

BikeFanatic   1 kW

1 kW
Posts: 408
Joined: Nov 19 2011 10:58am
Location: Massachusetts

Re: Nova Cruz Voloci Re-vamp

Post by BikeFanatic » Mar 29 2014 10:01am

Also I feel I need a chain tesioner of sorts, I can tighten the chain but it loosen quickly .

electricalbicycle   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 41
Joined: Jan 22 2013 2:59pm

Re: Nova Cruz Voloci Re-vamp

Post by electricalbicycle » Mar 30 2014 3:49pm

I thought maybe your low torque was due to the motor stator moving relative to the Hall Sensors that are on the frame. IF you do take the frame apart, punch mark the stator and frame so you can get it back exactly where it was. Oh, and be really, really, really careful with the magnetic rotor and stator as you put them back together. They have a tendency to want to snap off fingers!
I have not found any service info for the Voloci. I'd love to know how to set the Hall Timing and I would love to know what parts of the firmware can be tweaked to make it go faster or be quicker off the line. I know it is no motorcycle, but acceleration is still fun.
I heard that ALL the Voloci info was on V is for Voltage site but the original site closed and all the info was lost (so I was told). Would love to have the parts list and service manual and info about the firmware code for the Voloci.
I see you have a thumb throttle for your aftermarket controller...so no need to worry about compatibility of the Voloci throttle with the controller. Next, you might make sure that the controller can put out the current that the Voloci wants (stock should be about 40A).
Voloci claims 2 hp which would be about 1500W.
The Voloci controller had the motor controller and several other functions (battery level, for example) and also had the 36V to 12V downconverter. When you install an aftermarket controller, you loose the battery level (LEDs near the handlebars) AND the 12V to run the lights and horn.
IF you are abandoning your stock controller, you can get a small DC-DC converter that will probably fit under the stock controller cover. You can also mount it under the seat. 36V and 12V are accessible at the controller and also under the seat (36V from the "ignition switch").
You will have to swap your stock turn signal flasher relay if you go to LEDs, but there are lots of LED flashers available.
BatterySpace.Com has a NiMH battery pack that will fit the stock Voloci NiMH case if you want to go that route. Check out their stock 6601.
When you search "Voloci" on the web, you will find that NYCeWheels has several articles and reviews of the original bike and that they took over production from spare parts when NovaCruz quit making them. They had a few odds and ends a couple of years ago but they are completely out of parts now (they were closing out a Voloci NiMH charger and a rear rack...but now gone). I bought a NOS controller from them a year or so ago and they said that was their last Voloci part.
My photos are on a different computer and I will have to figure out which to post.

electricalbicycle   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 41
Joined: Jan 22 2013 2:59pm

Re: Nova Cruz Voloci Re-vamp

Post by electricalbicycle » Mar 30 2014 10:50pm

Voloci Motor, Halls.jpg
Here is the Voloci motor. Shown are the rotor, stator (in machined heatsink), shaft (removable from the rotor) and the Hall Effect Sensors.

The sensors are mounted to the frame and move in a slot for timing.

The motor/stator is clamped between the two frame rails. The frame rails are machined to hold the motor and they act as end bells and hold the bearings that hold the shaft.

electricalbicycle   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 41
Joined: Jan 22 2013 2:59pm

Re: Nova Cruz Voloci Re-vamp

Post by electricalbicycle » Mar 30 2014 10:55pm

Help with a SLA Voloci?

Anyone have a stock SLA Voloci that they can post photos of? I am curious about how they connected the batteries to the controller. They have a 50A fuse and you remove the fuse before doing firmware upgrade and other service. Is that the only disconnect for the battery?

Where is the 50A fuse located? Is it inside the battery compartment or is it outside the battery compartment where it is accessible?

electricalbicycle   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 41
Joined: Jan 22 2013 2:59pm

Re: Nova Cruz Voloci Re-vamp

Post by electricalbicycle » Mar 30 2014 11:00pm

Voloci Teflon Gasket.jpg
I am not sure how important sealing all the parts is. The controller should probably be well sealed. The rubber o-ring may be a problem, so I used Teflon Valve Packing. This stuff is like string and you just lay it in the groove that used to hold the rubber ring.

There are rubber rings on both sides of the motor stator where the touch the side plates and a rubber ring on the controller cover.

electricalbicycle   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 41
Joined: Jan 22 2013 2:59pm

Re: Nova Cruz Voloci Re-vamp

Post by electricalbicycle » Mar 30 2014 11:04pm

Volocis in box.JPG
If you were wondering what Volocis looked like when they were shipped to the dealers....

I stumbled across a former dealer that had been storing these for 10 years. Someone had bought 1 the week before I contacted him and these were the last that he had. He wanted to gets rid of them, so I bought both and he gave me an excellent price. Brand-new, in the box, never assembled or registered.

It was a great day when I came across these!

electricalbicycle   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 41
Joined: Jan 22 2013 2:59pm

Re: Nova Cruz Voloci Re-vamp

Post by electricalbicycle » Mar 30 2014 11:06pm

Voloci.jpg
The Voloci taking the scenic route.

electricalbicycle   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 41
Joined: Jan 22 2013 2:59pm

Re: Nova Cruz Voloci Re-vamp

Post by electricalbicycle » Mar 30 2014 11:15pm

http://www.kanda.com/blog/general/resur ... motorbike/
(or just search for "Kanda Voloci")

These guys make a keyfob flasher that on which they will load the Voloci firmware 3.12 from the web. This makes flashing the last code into any Voloci controller very simple.

I don't have the history of the various versions of the code but 3.12 was last and was stable. I THINK that earlier codes may have allowed faster acceleration and maybe a mile or two faster (again, not sure). I think they may have slowed the bike a bit in order to get more miles per charge (again, my guess).

PS they are very nice people...

electricalbicycle   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 41
Joined: Jan 22 2013 2:59pm

Re: Nova Cruz Voloci Re-vamp

Post by electricalbicycle » Mar 31 2014 11:23am

Low speed/low torque on a Voloci could be that the throttle output is too low for an aftermarket controller (Voloci only goes to about 2.5V where controllers expect about twice that).
Or, could be that the aftermarket controller is set too low .
Or, could be that the stator moved relative to the Hall Sensors (or vice versa)
Or, could be bad phase on motor or controller
Or, could be misconnection of phases. The Voloci motor wires do not come out of the motor/frame A-B-C, two of the wires are reversed.
Or, could be weak batteries
Or, could be current limiting on the battery pack
Or, could be bad connection between battery and controller or between controller and motor

User avatar
skeetab5780   10 MW

10 MW
Posts: 2127
Joined: Jun 15 2009 10:58pm
Location: MA
Contact:

Re: Nova Cruz Voloci Re-vamp

Post by skeetab5780 » Mar 31 2014 5:19pm

electricalbicycle wrote:I thought maybe your low torque was due to the motor stator moving relative to the Hall Sensors that are on the frame. IF you do take the frame apart, punch mark the stator and frame so you can get it back exactly where it was. Oh, and be really, really, really careful with the magnetic rotor and stator as you put them back together. They have a tendency to want to snap off fingers!
I have not found any service info for the Voloci. I'd love to know how to set the Hall Timing and I would love to know what parts of the firmware can be tweaked to make it go faster or be quicker off the line. I know it is no motorcycle, but acceleration is still fun.
I heard that ALL the Voloci info was on V is for Voltage site but the original site closed and all the info was lost (so I was told). Would love to have the parts list and service manual and info about the firmware code for the Voloci.
I see you have a thumb throttle for your aftermarket controller...so no need to worry about compatibility of the Voloci throttle with the controller. Next, you might make sure that the controller can put out the current that the Voloci wants (stock should be about 40A).
Voloci claims 2 hp which would be about 1500W.
The Voloci controller had the motor controller and several other functions (battery level, for example) and also had the 36V to 12V downconverter. When you install an aftermarket controller, you loose the battery level (LEDs near the handlebars) AND the 12V to run the lights and horn.
IF you are abandoning your stock controller, you can get a small DC-DC converter that will probably fit under the stock controller cover. You can also mount it under the seat. 36V and 12V are accessible at the controller and also under the seat (36V from the "ignition switch").
You will have to swap your stock turn signal flasher relay if you go to LEDs, but there are lots of LED flashers available.
BatterySpace.Com has a NiMH battery pack that will fit the stock Voloci NiMH case if you want to go that route. Check out their stock 6601.
When you search "Voloci" on the web, you will find that NYCeWheels has several articles and reviews of the original bike and that they took over production from spare parts when NovaCruz quit making them. They had a few odds and ends a couple of years ago but they are completely out of parts now (they were closing out a Voloci NiMH charger and a rear rack...but now gone). I bought a NOS controller from them a year or so ago and they said that was their last Voloci part.
My photos are on a different computer and I will have to figure out which to post.
That is a good question on the halls. i noticed that they mounted to the left side of the frame..odd I didnt think to mess with them since they did not seem to have ever been tampered with.

even at 15s 40a it was not right. i dug into it more and got rid of the stock motor for now, we will see if it comes back into play later.

I cant believe batteryspace has a nimh pack for the Voloci! that is funny. I'm sure its not worth it :)
electricalbicycle wrote:Help with a SLA Voloci?

Anyone have a stock SLA Voloci that they can post photos of? I am curious about how they connected the batteries to the controller. They have a 50A fuse and you remove the fuse before doing firmware upgrade and other service. Is that the only disconnect for the battery?

Where is the 50A fuse located? Is it inside the battery compartment or is it outside the battery compartment where it is accessible?
I cant comment on that one, would all be speculation.
electricalbicycle wrote:
Voloci Teflon Gasket.jpg
I am not sure how important sealing all the parts is. The controller should probably be well sealed. The rubber o-ring may be a problem, so I used Teflon Valve Packing. This stuff is like string and you just lay it in the groove that used to hold the rubber ring.

There are rubber rings on both sides of the motor stator where the touch the side plates and a rubber ring on the controller cover.
The original seals are still in good shape, but i have a feeling I am not going to be using the stock side covers. I may make new ones down the road. Still have an idea! Thanks for all of your pictures and knowledge on the Voloci so far, it has been an interesting read! I saved all of your pics to my HD just incase, the picture of the new ones boxed is *drool*
electricalbicycle wrote:http://www.kanda.com/blog/general/resur ... motorbike/
(or just search for "Kanda Voloci")

These guys make a keyfob flasher that on which they will load the Voloci firmware 3.12 from the web. This makes flashing the last code into any Voloci controller very simple.

I don't have the history of the various versions of the code but 3.12 was last and was stable. I THINK that earlier codes may have allowed faster acceleration and maybe a mile or two faster (again, not sure). I think they may have slowed the bike a bit in order to get more miles per charge (again, my guess).

PS they are very nice people...
I saw this website, i read the ES post from fetcher on him flashing his friends Voloci. I had a feeling I wasn't going to go that route, but you never know i kept all the stock parts. Could come in handy some day.
electricalbicycle wrote:Low speed/low torque on a Voloci could be that the throttle output is too low for an aftermarket controller (Voloci only goes to about 2.5V where controllers expect about twice that).
Or, could be that the aftermarket controller is set too low .
Or, could be that the stator moved relative to the Hall Sensors (or vice versa)
Or, could be bad phase on motor or controller
Or, could be misconnection of phases. The Voloci motor wires do not come out of the motor/frame A-B-C, two of the wires are reversed.
Or, could be weak batteries
Or, could be current limiting on the battery pack
Or, could be bad connection between battery and controller or between controller and motor
commented on this a little earlier, but as you'll see things are a bit different now, when you purchased the 2 new Voloci's how is the power? do they pull you at 30mph up hill and take off quick? cause it seemed weaker than a 36v hub on a bicycle to me. But then again I was using a regular brushless controller(3 different types/voltages). I'm not sure if it being sine wave or not has anything to do with it. It's not weak batts :)

User avatar
skeetab5780   10 MW

10 MW
Posts: 2127
Joined: Jun 15 2009 10:58pm
Location: MA
Contact:

Re: Nova Cruz Voloci Re-vamp

Post by skeetab5780 » Mar 31 2014 5:51pm

Ok so things changed quite a bit as i tore into the bike a little more. I had thoughts to try and retro-fit a BHT motor inside the stock Voloci motor housing area, but my patience got the best of me. You will notice in these pictures i cut off the double kickstand(even though i could have removed it when doing this)waste of a good kickstand, but I will not be able to use it with my future plans anyway.

I started looking into how to take the rear swingarm off/apart from the frame
Image
Slowly working it off the sleeve it was pressed onto
Image
.
Image
.
Image
Right side of the swingarm removed
Image
.
Image
Back side of the right half of the swingarm
Image
The stock Voloci chain tensioners
Image
.
Image
On this side of the rear axle you can see the disc brake adaptor (that i need to alter)
Image
.
Image
Top half of the Voloci gets removed yet again!
Image
.
Image
Getting ready to remove the motor/frame side cover
Image
.
Image
.
Image
.
Image
You have to remove the battery gauge above the battery and you will notice the 6 bolts adapting the side covers
Image
Then remove the shock mount pin/sleeve
Image
This allowed the rest of the swingarm to be removed from the frame
Image
.
Image
Carefully move the C clips on the sleeves and work them out of position
Image
And just like that! We have movement!
Image
And a motor
Image
Here is the shot of the hall sensors and how they mount, yah...
Image
.
Image

Here is where the story gets a little weird, now just hold on a minute and give it a chance. I filed the holes larger on the stock Voloci chain tensioners and made the rear swingarm accept a hub motor, At the moment the stock motor is removed. Yes those chain tensioners are round and they will just spin when torque is applied to them and it will not be powered like this. This is just a mock-up until i take the next step in the project. And i have to say I'm already liking the look of it.
Image
.
Image
.
Image

Here is a shot of the new front-end for now also, installed a sealed headset and a SR suntour duro fork. Truvativ bars Avid levers/twist throttle, Along with brand new rims and Michelin Gazelle 17x 2.75
Image
And an ugly picture with a 18-fet controller hanging off of it, to get an idea of positioning
Image

As always Thanks for looking. Voloci #1

electricalbicycle   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 41
Joined: Jan 22 2013 2:59pm

Re: Nova Cruz Voloci Re-vamp

Post by electricalbicycle » Mar 31 2014 7:46pm

WOW!

You've done a lot!

I gave a thought to putting in a hub motor in the rear and will be very interested in your experiences. I checked out a 3kw (or thereabouts) rear hub at a e-bike conversion place and thought it was too heavy...and that ended that. Everything else about converting the Voloci to rear hub motor appealed to me but the weight put me off.

i thought the "unsprung weight" would affect the ride too much. My guess, not having done it. I am looking forward to your report. I may yet re-think my re-thinking.

My current thinking is that I may use a "mid-motor" on a special bracket that I need to design and have made up. The bracket would allow the motor to extend to however far it needs to on the left and right of the frame and it can be as large a diameter as it needs to be. I would keep the chain length the same but the motor would sit higher than in the stock Voloci (it would be outside and over the frame rails).

One thing I like (and depend on) is being able to carry the Voloci on a bike rack on a 1-1/4 hitch on the back of my small car. Even the SLA version may be too heavy for the rack (not sure). I want to keep it as lean as I can and I prefer a removable battery if I can get the capacity.

Oh, one thing you may have noticed is that the foot pegs have small springs and balls that give it a detent.

Someone mentioned a chain tensioner. I have experienced that the chain tension is difficult to set and hold. Seems like you tighten the bolt and it messes up the setting and you can get into an endless cycle back and forth. One of the appeals to me of a rear hub motor was doing away with chain tension. For the Rear Hub design, my thought was to duplicate the part that is used to adjust the chain but drill ONE HOLE right in the center. No adjustment needed or possible!

Not sure if you noticed but your shot with the frame rails resting on the table is the best bike stand I have found. You can work on the whole bike (where the front wheel goes between the legs of the table and the rear wheel sticks up in the air). I have run the bike on the table with the rear wheel in the air and that works well for doing experiments with aftermarket controllers, controller settings, batteries, etc., etc.

Thanks again for posting and sharing your ideas and progress. Makes me want to start working on mine.

electricalbicycle   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 41
Joined: Jan 22 2013 2:59pm

Re: Nova Cruz Voloci Re-vamp

Post by electricalbicycle » Apr 02 2014 9:54am

I got the 2 NOS Volocis in the original boxes for a very good price (to me) AND the guy did a package deal that included Dealer Ads, Bulletins, T-Shirts, upgrade kits that included new fenders and mirrors, a dead battery pack and some other stuff. When he did the package, he LOWERED the price of the bikes and threw in all the other stuff for free. Great guy and I enjoyed working with him to make it happen.

The two Volocis were faster than 3.12 firmware bikes. I think NovaCruz must have slowed the acceleration and top speed a bit, probably to increase the mileage. Just my guess though.

The top I have hit on a Voloci is like 26 MPH with a fresh NiMH pack. I am 270#, so that is a definite factor. I go about 45 minutes on a NiMH pack on level ground with stop signs and "brisk" acceleration. I get 12 - 14 miles and the pack is about dead. I only ride for fun.

The NOS bikes had a thinner rear fender that was replaced with the thicker one in the upgrade kit. The stays on the fatter fender go to the rear axel and the thinner fender go to the center of the swing arm.

The original mirror were on the small size (nice!) but they included larger ones in the upgrade kit. They also had a small L-bracket to add to the foot pegs to keep the center stand from getting too close to the chain and rubbing.

Everything was shiny on the NOS bikes and I had to assemble the handlebars and turn signals. The guy took the packs out of the boxes and charged them regularly for 10 years.

One of the NOS bikes went about 30 miles (over several trips) and started to develop a motor noise that got louder and louder and started to affect the bike's speed. I took off the chain and tried to turn the motor by hand and that is where the friction and noise were, so took the bike apart (as you have) and found one magnet came off the rotor.

Kollmorgen said the motor was end-of-life and they didn't have any spares and couldn't service the rotor. Found a place that wanted something like $300 to replace the magnet and rebalance, etc., and I decided to go a different route by adding a replacement motor, either in the stock location, or mid-frame or as a rear hub.

I bought a 1500W motor (at 48V) which would fit with some modifications and bought a 5 inch TransMagnetics motor that would need to be mounted outside the frame. I also looked at a 3kW modified Crystallyte motor for the rear but, for now, think it is too much weight. I am watching your progress and may reconsider a rear-hub, depending on how yours turns out.

For an external controller, I considered mounting a controller in a box (heat sinked to the box) and mounting that on the REAR of the seat stays. I was considering routing the wires in tubing and doing the connections under the stock controller cover. I was thinking that the controller and wiring would be hidden.

Depending on the controller and the controller box, the DC-DC down converter could go in that box, under the stock Voloci cover or under the seat.

I never saw the NiMH "double pack" .

The dealer bulletin said they were working on a front fender and a charger that could charge the NiMH battery when it was hot. The 3.12 firmware had a reference to 48V but I have no idea what that is about.

User avatar
Whiplash   100 MW

100 MW
Posts: 2897
Joined: May 10 2010 2:55pm

Re: Nova Cruz Voloci Re-vamp

Post by Whiplash » Apr 18 2014 1:07am

Very cool bike! Never seen one but I have sketches of my own design that look almost identical! Lol!
Power is a fascinating thing, the more you have, the more you want, but the real power is having the restraint not to use it all at once...............Um...Yeah..

The harder you work.....The luckier you get!!

"People who say it can't be done are often interrupted by those that have already figured out how to do it!"

Email me @ currentcycles@gmail.com
OR check out http://www.CurrentCycles.net

User avatar
skeetab5780   10 MW

10 MW
Posts: 2127
Joined: Jun 15 2009 10:58pm
Location: MA
Contact:

Re: Nova Cruz Voloci Re-vamp

Post by skeetab5780 » Apr 20 2014 5:15am

electricalbicycle wrote:WOW!

You've done a lot!

I gave a thought to putting in a hub motor in the rear and will be very interested in your experiences. I checked out a 3kw (or thereabouts) rear hub at a e-bike conversion place and thought it was too heavy...and that ended that. Everything else about converting the Voloci to rear hub motor appealed to me but the weight put me off.

i thought the "unsprung weight" would affect the ride too much. My guess, not having done it. I am looking forward to your report. I may yet re-think my re-thinking.

My current thinking is that I may use a "mid-motor" on a special bracket that I need to design and have made up. The bracket would allow the motor to extend to however far it needs to on the left and right of the frame and it can be as large a diameter as it needs to be. I would keep the chain length the same but the motor would sit higher than in the stock Voloci (it would be outside and over the frame rails).

One thing I like (and depend on) is being able to carry the Voloci on a bike rack on a 1-1/4 hitch on the back of my small car. Even the SLA version may be too heavy for the rack (not sure). I want to keep it as lean as I can and I prefer a removable battery if I can get the capacity.

Oh, one thing you may have noticed is that the foot pegs have small springs and balls that give it a detent.

Someone mentioned a chain tensioner. I have experienced that the chain tension is difficult to set and hold. Seems like you tighten the bolt and it messes up the setting and you can get into an endless cycle back and forth. One of the appeals to me of a rear hub motor was doing away with chain tension. For the Rear Hub design, my thought was to duplicate the part that is used to adjust the chain but drill ONE HOLE right in the center. No adjustment needed or possible!

Not sure if you noticed but your shot with the frame rails resting on the table is the best bike stand I have found. You can work on the whole bike (where the front wheel goes between the legs of the table and the rear wheel sticks up in the air). I have run the bike on the table with the rear wheel in the air and that works well for doing experiments with aftermarket controllers, controller settings, batteries, etc., etc.

Thanks again for posting and sharing your ideas and progress. Makes me want to start working on mine.
It's been a while, sorry for the late reply. Thanks for all the info you've added to this thread. The hub motor is a little 2 heavy for the bike. And as of now the project is on a slight hiatus for a few reasons. First I got the new BHT brushless motor and I'm mounting it to my other bicycle frame at the moment and secondly... I'm in the works of getting a custom swingarm made for the Voloci to accept the hub and make it a little stronger.

The chain was kinda a pain to set, took a lot of finness, I do miss the kickstand already. I like to use my table for many projects thru-out the week :) now it lives there!

I'm not really worried about the un-sprung weight as opposed the the side to side flex of the overall aluminum panel frame. Since I've been away I've managed to remove the entire swingarm again and took a lot of measurements off if it to send to my machinist. The overall strength of the swingarm is superb, which worries me that creating a new one may still leave me with the same frame flex. It may be bearable until i try to maneuver like a mad man(it could get dangerous).

I also thought of mounting a motor in a different location than the stock, but the only place is above or below the rear shock setup that looks so beautiful. You wont be doing it any justice that's for sure.

User avatar
skeetab5780   10 MW

10 MW
Posts: 2127
Joined: Jun 15 2009 10:58pm
Location: MA
Contact:

Re: Nova Cruz Voloci Re-vamp

Post by skeetab5780 » Apr 20 2014 5:18am

Whiplash wrote:Very cool bike! Never seen one but I have sketches of my own design that look almost identical! Lol!
Thanks I really like the look of it. But my need for speed made me tear it apart. It's okay tho, i have plans to make it a sweet commuter ride.

You certainly have a keen eye!

User avatar
skeetab5780   10 MW

10 MW
Posts: 2127
Joined: Jun 15 2009 10:58pm
Location: MA
Contact:

Re: Nova Cruz Voloci Re-vamp

Post by skeetab5780 » Apr 20 2014 5:29am

So i removed the x5404 for the time being. I actually need to open her up and replace the bearings. It will need to be done before it goes back together again, I'll probably rewire the motor while I'm in there. I've since removed the rear swingarm again and took measurements and sent it off to my machinist to have a replica/altered swimarm produced that will properly accept the hub motor. I have a few other tricks up my sleeve, but most of them entail machining parts. And since i no longer have access to these machines! I have friends to outsource :)

I'm also in the works of building a battery pack and 2 other bikes, I'm very excited about the BHT motor I'm mounting onto my other bike at the moment. So that has been my priority. I'm not gonna lie!

Either way here are some pictures to keep things rolling for now.

Image
.
Image
.
Image
.
Image
.
Image
.
Image
.
Image
.
Image
.
Image
.
Image
.
Image
.
Image

As i mentioned above after removing the swingarm I noticed that it is super strong. Which worries me that the frame flex is the weak point and not the rear end. Only time will tell if the Voloci can be restored~!

User avatar
Whiplash   100 MW

100 MW
Posts: 2897
Joined: May 10 2010 2:55pm

Re: Nova Cruz Voloci Re-vamp

Post by Whiplash » Apr 20 2014 8:59am

After looking at your pics, the flex is almost certainly coming from the main body. The fact that there is no physical top plate I am betting is allowing a good deal of twist. Try capping that off with a structural bolt on plate and I bet it gets much better!
Power is a fascinating thing, the more you have, the more you want, but the real power is having the restraint not to use it all at once...............Um...Yeah..

The harder you work.....The luckier you get!!

"People who say it can't be done are often interrupted by those that have already figured out how to do it!"

Email me @ currentcycles@gmail.com
OR check out http://www.CurrentCycles.net

electricalbicycle   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 41
Joined: Jan 22 2013 2:59pm

Re: Nova Cruz Voloci Re-vamp

Post by electricalbicycle » Apr 21 2014 8:22pm

I am leaning towards a 48V pack in approximately the volume of the original NiMH pack. BHT seems to have a Li Battery with BMS that would fit. I just wonder how well enclosed the BMU is. Might have TAP make a plastic cover that hinges in the front on the stock Voloci battery pin and then somehow latch in the rear. I would abandon the stock battery contacts in favor of PowerPoles.

The stock Voloci everything with CycleAnalyst to "correct" the Voloci Hall Throttle to the throttle Voltage that a Lyen controller would expect. So, new battery, new controller with stock motor but at 48V vs 36V.

I would probably throttle the bike to 30 mph but getting to 30 mph would be zippier. If I don't zip it too much, maybe I can keep from overheating the stock Voloci motor.

Post Reply