Boat ESC - success Only works for me though.

For those of you keeping score, the Birdie ESC doesn't have a neutral. As soon as you release the throttle it applies the brake just like a plane ESC. The SS series ESCs won't work the way we want either. HK are now telling me that the only boat ESCs that will work with forward, neutral and brake are ones that have reverse. Be careful though. SS boat ESCs say they have reverse but what they mean is that the ESC can change direction via programming without changing the wires.

Looks like I'll have to go down to 6 cells and buy one of these 90A ESCs that have been proven to work as we need.
 
For those that are asking about / avoiding UBECS - they are just a tiny board that has two leads. One set go to your main battery power, and the other lead is a servo lead that plugs in the "power" or any other spare channel on your receiver. They just step down your lipo voltage to 5 or 6 volts. That's all there is to it.

Lots of heli guys have separate becs because

a) the HV escs don't have a BEC built in
b) they want a good quality high performing BEC that can push big servos fast - and frequently ESC built in BECS are not very beefy. Not important to use here at all mind you.

As for the AMPS / Voltage discussion. For the same performance with the same gear- if you increase voltage you can decrease amps. So at speed x - a high voltage setup will use less amps than a low voltage setup at speed x.

It's already been spelt out above.

10 volts at 10 amps = 100watts
20 volts at 5 amps = 100watts

The only way you will increase both is if you start going faster/ harder. i.e.

20 volts at 10 amps = 200 watts - twice the power!

Bear in mind, when you increase voltage, if you goal is to reduce current (amps) then you need to gear your system down to deliver the same speed as before. If you don't, then more voltage will mean higher top speed and you will use up more power! - so no benefit - other than higher top speed.
 
The 90a HK Boat ESC is still going strong to my surprise. I actually switched it out yesterday to run on the 6364 powered board. Figured it would at least get hot, but it stayed cool. I was surprised that the ESC seemed to function pretty close to the 150a Hobbywing I had hooked up. The throttle and braking were similar, although there wasn't the motor whine when braking with the car ESC. The boat ESC did work much better than the 150a Hobbyking I used previously, which I've since relegated to my RC car. The throttle on that was too touchy/inconsistent.
I'd still recommend to go at least with the 120a version of the HK boat ESC if you are looking for something more permanent. I still don't have the Genesis boat ordered yet so this ESC can be used for other things. Strangely it will likely blow on the first pass in a boat on 4s, but I don't want to see how fast I can get up to 60mph on a longboard. :p
 
Sorry to revive an older post, but i recently bought a boat esc 90a. It runs ok, but the brakes are switched of in default setting. I tried to program it using the manual from hobby king but the beeps do not match the manual at all. I ordered the programming card to see if it makes a difference.

Due to my effort to program using the beeps, it runs really bad now with strange reverse behavior and acceleration. I think I adjusted the wrong settings :(
Maybe someone has some tips? For now I will wait for the card.
 
DodgyBob said:
Sorry to revive an older post, but i recently bought a boat esc 90a. It runs ok, but the brakes are switched of in default setting. I tried to program it using the manual from hobby king but the beeps do not match the manual at all. I ordered the programming card to see if it makes a difference.

Due to my effort to program using the beeps, it runs really bad now with strange reverse behavior and acceleration. I think I adjusted the wrong settings :(
Maybe someone has some tips? For now I will wait for the card.
Click to expand...

Did you calibrate the ESC with your transmitter?
 
dirkdiggler said:
The 90a HK Boat ESC is still going strong to my surprise. I actually switched it out yesterday to run on the 6364 powered board. Figured it would at least get hot, but it stayed cool. I was surprised that the ESC seemed to function pretty close to the 150a Hobbywing I had hooked up. The throttle and braking were similar, although there wasn't the motor whine when braking with the car ESC. The boat ESC did work much better than the 150a Hobbyking I used previously, which I've since relegated to my RC car. The throttle on that was too touchy/inconsistent.
I'd still recommend to go at least with the 120a version of the HK boat ESC if you are looking for something more permanent. I still don't have the Genesis boat ordered yet so this ESC can be used for other things. Strangely it will likely blow on the first pass in a boat on 4s, but I don't want to see how fast I can get up to 60mph on a longboard. :p
Click to expand...

So excited to hear this! I'm using a HK150a now but have been eyeing the boat esc's since the start for their efficiently compact size. Can you comment on DodgyBob's problem? I'm guessing he either needs to calibrate or get the correct program card. Guess we'll have to wait for an update.
So which of these two would you recommend:
1. http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__28224__HobbyKing_120A_Boat_ESC_4A_UBEC.html?strSearch=120a%20boat
2. http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__8946__Turnigy_Marine_120A_Brushless_Boat_ESC.html?strSearch=120a%20boat
3. http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__18986__Turnigy_Aquastar_120A_Watercooled_ESC_w_Programming_Card.html
...#2 is more compact, but I know your results are from the 90a version of #1. Just saw #3 on HK's homepage and it's very intriguing. Same features as the other plus more. For only a few bones more it might be worth it. I may have to be the guinea pig on this one... :)
 
I dug a little deeper and found a different manual. The 50-70 and 120A versions have a different manual which appears to be correct one also for the 90A. I tried to program using my transmitter indeed. I hope to receive the programming card today. There are alot of mixed reviews of this card on HK. I will share my experience when i get home tonight.
 
Looks ok, but i cannot find if it has a braking option. Also it doesn't seem to be programmable?
 
DodgyBob said:
I dug a little deeper and found a different manual. The 50-70 and 120A versions have a different manual which appears to be correct one also for the 90A. I tried to program using my transmitter indeed. I hope to receive the programming card today. There are alot of mixed reviews of this card on HK. I will share my experience when i get home tonight.
Click to expand...

"Programming" refers to the settings of your ESC (braking, timing, acceleration, etc.)
"Calibrating" refers to syncing your transmitter with the ESC (so when you hit full throttle, the ESC knows to put out max power). I hadn't calibrated mine until recently and it gave me loads more power when I accelerate and overall performs much better. To calibrate you don't need a card. You hold the reset button, which should be on the power switch, and turn it on while holding. On the HK150a car ESC: A light will blink, hold full throttle until *beep*, then hold full brake until *2 beeps*, then release throttle into neutral position. The ESC should calibrate successfully. Turn off and on and you're ready to go.

The plush ESC you posted is programmable. Scroll down under the "add to cart" button, there's "related items". The programming card you'd need is there ($6.91). Looks like it might be a semi-universal Turnigy programming card.

Hope I could help! :)
 
Wuz up all. I just returned the alien double 150amp esc and 4200watt double motors after reading this thread. Seems people aren't getting near 150amps or even 120. I'd rather save a bundle and go with one or two of these. And that's my question...I want to build a double motor and wondering if I should get a double esc that's about 120amp or two 60amp. I'd also like it to have a bec to power the receiver.
Am I missing something in this decision? Was going to get the turning 5056 motors or something similar. There's about a 240kv and a 280 one. Guess I should go with two of the 240kv ones
 
Hummina Shadeeba said:
Wuz up all. I just returned the alien double 150amp esc and 4200watt double motors after reading this thread. Seems people aren't getting near 150amps or even 120. I'd rather save a bundle and go with one or two of these. And that's my question...I want to build a double motor and wondering if I should get a double esc that's about 120amp or two 60amp. I'd also like it to have a bec to power the receiver.
Am I missing something in this decision? Was going to get the turning 5056 motors or something similar. There's about a 240kv and a 280 one. Guess I should go with two of the 240kv ones
Click to expand...

A positive that's been stated here of having 2 separate escs is that you can always replace one if it breaks leaving you still with a working board for the meantime, but with a 2-in-1 you'd have to replace the whole thing leaving you with no board. If you're going for a sleek, aesthetic appeal and have the $$$, then go with an Alien esc. Dirkdiggler has had success with his 90a boat esc, so you'd be safe with that. Seeing as you don't already have a 90a, I believe he recommended going for a 120a to be safe. It seems that lots of esc's have built in bec's, so you might as well refine your search to those unless you plan on soldering your own bec.

I'm running on a single 5055 280kv and so far so good. I've only pushed it to 80% throttle (esc setting "20% throttle limit") and I'm afraid if I go full I'd have problems. It does get very hot after a 1 to 2 mile run but since you're planning a dual setup, the two motors will be working together and in theory you won't have any problems. Ultimately, it depends on how much potential top end speed you want. If you get the higher kv, then you can work with gearing options to tame your speed. This is an invaluable tool: http://scriptasylum.com/rc_speed/top_speed.html
I found it here from user Nieles: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=57644&hilit=245kv
 
Hummina Shadeeba said:
Wuz up all. I just returned the alien double 150amp esc and 4200watt double motors after reading this thread. Seems people aren't getting near 150amps or even 120. I'd rather save a bundle and go with one or two of these. And that's my question...I want to build a double motor and wondering if I should get a double esc that's about 120amp or two 60amp. I'd also like it to have a bec to power the receiver.
Am I missing something in this decision? Was going to get the turning 5056 motors or something similar. There's about a 240kv and a 280 one. Guess I should go with two of the 240kv ones
Click to expand...

If you still read what people are saying. They are still reaching 90-120amps for a few seconds. We buy the higher amp escs to make more leg room to not run everything at it's full capacity. With that said, you can definetly buy (2) 120A Boat ESCs. I haven't tried them myself but hear that they are pretty good and still have brakes.

Majority of 60 amps escs will have a max of 4 or 5S Lipo batteries. You won't be able to use 6S/8S battery packs with a small 60amp esc.

240kv/280kv the difference is slightly minor. Generally, 240kv is more torque than 280kv and 280kv is a bit higher speed.
 
drmacgyver said:
Hummina Shadeeba said:
Wuz up all. I just returned the alien double 150amp esc and 4200watt double motors after reading this thread. Seems people aren't getting near 150amps or even 120. I'd rather save a bundle and go with one or two of these. And that's my question...I want to build a double motor and wondering if I should get a double esc that's about 120amp or two 60amp. I'd also like it to have a bec to power the receiver.
Am I missing something in this decision? Was going to get the turning 5056 motors or something similar. There's about a 240kv and a 280 one. Guess I should go with two of the 240kv ones
Click to expand...

A positive that's been stated here of having 2 separate escs is that you can always replace one if it breaks leaving you still with a working board for the meantime, but with a 2-in-1 you'd have to replace the whole thing leaving you with no board. If you're going for a sleek, aesthetic appeal and have the $$$, then go with an Alien esc. Dirkdiggler has had success with his 90a boat esc, so you'd be safe with that. Seeing as you don't already have a 90a, I believe he recommended going for a 120a to be safe. It seems that lots of esc's have built in bec's, so you might as well refine your search to those unless you plan on soldering your own bec.

I'm running on a single 5055 280kv and so far so good. I've only pushed it to 80% throttle (esc setting "20% throttle limit") and I'm afraid if I go full I'd have problems. It does get very hot after a 1 to 2 mile run but since you're planning a dual setup, the two motors will be working together and in theory you won't have any problems. Ultimately, it depends on how much potential top end speed you want. If you get the higher kv, then you can work with gearing options to tame your speed. This is an invaluable tool: http://scriptasylum.com/rc_speed/top_speed.html
I found it here from user Nieles: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=57644&hilit=245kv
Click to expand...

Could I run the 120amp w two motors?
 
Hummina Shadeeba said:
Could I run the 120amp w two motors?
Click to expand...

I'm 99% sure you can't. I don't know a whole lot about esc's, but aside from the obvious fact that there is only one set of motor wires, I think dual escs have two "brains" or two boards inside that help distribute voltage and amps evenly. Someone with more knowledge will have to chime in...
 
drmacgyver said:
Hummina Shadeeba said:
Could I run the 120amp w two motors?
Click to expand...

I'm 99% sure you can't. I don't know a whole lot about esc's, but aside from the obvious fact that there is only one set of motor wires, I think dual escs have two "brains" or two boards inside that help distribute voltage and amps evenly. Someone with more knowledge will have to chime in...
Click to expand...

He's right. Ideally, you can run 2 motors on 1 esc with split wires but for our application. You wouldn't want to do this as it could be dangerous. It will work but not efficiently. The Dual motor ESCs do contain 2 ESCs just on one board.
 
I just finished my build and I am using this ESC:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/iii-1x-Mons...d=100012&prg=9141&rk=3&rkt=10&sd=221391784396

$50 and free shipping. It has been working fine so far. Get the programming card for a bunch of different features. The breaks do make the high pitch squeal if anyone is wondering. I'm using two 3s in series and with a turningy 6364 and have tons of power and speed. I can climb some steep hills with this setup.
 
I have been using a double boat 90a setup now for a few days. They run smooth and cool so far. I have one issue though:
When I go from full throttle to neutral and try to throttle back up again, the board wants to stall. The motors are going full speed at full throttle, then when i neutral they keep on turning fast. When i try then to throttle back up the motors seem to be forced to turn at a slower pace at 10% throttle and the board stalls and shakes.

I hope this makes sense. I am having difficulty to explain this as english is not native language ;)
Has anyone experienced this problem also?
 
DodgyBob said:
I have been using a double boat 90a setup now for a few days. They run smooth and cool so far. I have one issue though:
When I go from full throttle to neutral and try to throttle back up again, the board wants to stall. The motors are going full speed at full throttle, then when i neutral they keep on turning fast. When i try then to throttle back up the motors seem to be forced to turn at a slower pace at 10% throttle and the board stalls and shakes.

I hope this makes sense. I am having difficulty to explain this as english is not native language ;)
Has anyone experienced this problem also?
Click to expand...

Have you calibrated your transmitter and esc? My best guess is that it isn't calibrated correctly, or at all. Sounds like it could cause a few accidents! For safety concerns, maybe stop using it until you get it figured out. Do you have a youtube account? You could always post a video. And your english is good! :)
 
I did calibrate it, but i will try again today. Also i will try to turn off the reverse function to see if that helps anything. The programmingcard doesn't seem to work at all. I have seen the reviews of the card on hobby king and there are alot of people with the similar problems.
 
DodgyBob said:
When I go from full throttle to neutral and try to throttle back up again, the board wants to stall. The motors are going full speed at full throttle, then when i neutral they keep on turning fast. When i try then to throttle back up the motors seem to be forced to turn at a slower pace at 10% throttle and the board stalls and shakes.
I hope this makes sense. I am having difficulty to explain this as english is not native language ;)
Click to expand...

Your english is excellent.
Here is last weeks amp/voltage consumption review... Keep in mind i ride at over 45 kph/ and weigh over 220 lbs (armor/board/me) to test these measurements.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=58504&start=50
So my guess is I pull under 40 amps continiuos, maybe 10 spikes and hour of 45-55 amps, 1 or 2 spikes of 75-85 amps..
In my mini motor build I was able to ride my 4238 motors on a 65 amp 4s system for a couple hundred kms.. and although the motor did eventually burn up it was due to my inexperience in allowing the connecting wires to wiggle and eventually short out. I discontinued the build due to the diffciulty in finding 5mm sprockets for 5HTD belts... But i digress

Ordered a couple fo these boat escs from the international warehouse and they should be arriving in the mail next week. I'll post wattage and such soon as the rest of the board is already mocked up. I believe your stalling might be due to motor timing.. had that problem with a 65 amp/4238 motor combo.. had to change the timing (lower since they were tiny motors) and everything then worked out fine, in this case maybe a higher timing would do it. Also try the lowest punch settings so that the motor can "wind up" to your speed.. IF all this fails then
"NEVER SLOW DOWN.. FULL THROTTLE MAN!!!!!" :D
 
DodgyBob said:
I have been using a double boat 90a setup now for a few days. They run smooth and cool so far. I have one issue though:
When I go from full throttle to neutral and try to throttle back up again, the board wants to stall. The motors are going full speed at full throttle, then when i neutral they keep on turning fast. When i try then to throttle back up the motors seem to be forced to turn at a slower pace at 10% throttle and the board stalls and shakes.

I hope this makes sense. I am having difficulty to explain this as english is not native language ;)
Has anyone experienced this problem also?
Click to expand...

Hey Bob and dirk
Just got my boat esc rigged up, tried setting up the esc andbrakes...
Does your esc brake at all.. I programed mine to setting 1:1 forwards and brake and for the life of me i cannot detect any difference between the braking and merely slowing down due to friction... I know im in that setting because i cannot get reverse...
Is the braking really that low or is my esc acting up?
Also did you program the esc using the remote or the program card.
 
For those of you keeping score, the Birdie ESC doesn't have a neutral. As soon as you release the throttle it applies the brake just like a plane ESC.
Click to expand...
Darn, i didn't see this post until now, and I bought that exact 100a Birdie ESC. I thought it would work because the description (http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__19438__Birdie_100A_Brushless_Boat_ESC_w_5A_BEC.html) says that it has several settings for brake. Oh well, whatever. Once it comes i'll just set it to the "soft" brake function. Also, were you able to actually program the ESC? Some people say that the manual doesn't line up with the actual product.

I'd say those boat esc's you've been suggesting are likely to overheat on an electric skateboard. They are designed to be water cooled I think
Click to expand...
Under the heat shrink tubing there's a heat sink that's almost exactly the same as a normal car esc. The only difference is that they drilled a hole for a copper pipe to fit through so that water can be pumped through it. You can just take out the copper tube, or just replace the heat sink with another one. I don't think it really matters since heat sinks work by creating more surface area, so in my opinion, the copper tube should just add onto the amount of area. The only thing I would do is to trim down the heat shrink so that there is more air flow.
 
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