Nova Cruz Voloci Re-vamp

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Re: Nova Cruz Voloci Re-vamp

Post by skeetab5780 » May 25, 2014 8:36 pm

Hey EB, Do you know of any sort of chart for rolling diameters of 17 inch moped tires. I'm trying to see if there are any out there noticeably taller. I have a set of Gazelle 17/2.75/47p they seem to be about 1/4" taller than the stock Voloci tires but they are also 2.75 wide..Do you know of any else?

Thanks again.

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Re: Nova Cruz Voloci Re-vamp

Post by electricalbicycle » May 26, 2014 9:42 am

I don't know of a rolling diameter chart. Doesn't mean it isn't out there, but I don't know of one.

I have the stock Savas (MC11, 2-1/4 X 17), Michelin Gazelles (M62, 2.25 X 17) and trail tires, Shinko Golden Boy (SR244, 2.50 X 17). The trail tires are tallest tires I have.

In addition to being a stock moped size, the rim should be the same size as a Honda Trail 90 (Model CT90). Dr. ATV/Beatrice Cycle specializes in Honda 90's (and other small bikes). Check http://www.dratv.com/tirwheelbrak.html.

Moped shops also have various 17 inch tires. I bought my Gazelles from Treatland.tv in San Francisco (https://www.treatland.tv/SearchResults.asp?Search=tires) and have bought Tomos stuff for the Voloci from Myron's Mopeds in LA (http://www.myronsmopeds.com/2012/09/tires-and-tubes).

Not sure how wide (or tall) you can go on a Voloci but tires are available in 2.00, 2.25, 2.50, 2.75 and 3.00 widths.

If the tires keep the same width to sidewall ratio, then a wider tire should mean a taller side wall/taller diameter (my guess). Knobbies should be taller than street tires.

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Re: Nova Cruz Voloci Re-vamp

Post by skeetab5780 » Jun 02, 2014 10:01 am

Threw some heat shrink on my Dewalt Battery packs to make them a little more rugged.

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Snipped 2 little spots for my balance leads to fit through
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Finished product
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Re: Nova Cruz Voloci Re-vamp

Post by electricalbicycle » Jun 16, 2014 8:38 pm

How's the Voloci progress?

I liked what you did with the other bike, where you added a long swing arm and put the motor near the pivot point. You created a kind of "power wheel" but with less mass at the long end of the swing arm as compared to a hub motor.

I am rethinking of replacing my broken Voloci motor with a 5" Transmag motor in front of, and above, the stock position. I am thinking of taking off the seat stays and mounting the new motor where the rear stays attach to the frame. That makes the chain long and up a bit too high, so something needs to be done about that. Once the motor is mounted and working properly, rework the seat stays to attach the rear ones to the new motor mount

I am not sure if it is worth the effort to create a jack shaft that uses the stock motor hole to mount a new shaft with two sprockets, where one would go to the rear sprocket as stock but the other would go up to the new motor location.

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Re: Nova Cruz Voloci Re-vamp

Post by skeetab5780 » Jun 19, 2014 6:14 am

using the old motor thru as a jackshaft is a great idea and will solve your chainline issues and give you way more options. if its viable I would do that. Its weird because the motor I put on my other bike and the Voloci motor are almost identical in size and weight, just odd that the Voloci motor is a lot weaker. My Voloci is at sort of a stand-still as of right now, I need to open the x5404 and replace the bearings and rewire it. And I also need to get a few parts machined and I've been slacking with contacting some available sources to get it done.

I've been commuting with my Tidalforce and the X5304. It is crazy fun, but slightly sketchy going over 40mph on a bicycle. The moto rims just feel so much safer now that I've experienced them.

P.S I may have also bought another production Ebike or two... :)

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Re: Nova Cruz Voloci Re-vamp

Post by electricalbicycle » Jun 19, 2014 2:41 pm

I feel like the year is slipping by and haven't done much on the Voloci except think a lot and buy a few parts.

The Voloci is supposed to be 1500W, The controller is supposed to be limited to 40A (I heard) and the stock 36V pack has a 40A fuse (the SLA version has a 50A fuse). I know that you said your Voloci was weak. When the 36V pack is topped off, it is around 40V for a few moments. 40 VX 40 A = 1600W. 36V X 40 A = 1440 W.

The BHT Motor is 1000W @ 48V where the Voloci is 1500W @ 36V, so the Voloci should be stronger. There are a lot of variables such as the resistance of the battery connection, power of the controller, Hall timing, settings of the controller, Voltage of the battery, etc., etc. which could make either seem stronger or weaker.

I think you may be running 72V, which should make the BHT motor 1-1/2 times stronger. If the Voloci motor were hooked to a 72V controller, it should be 3000W (but may get too hot or perhaps saturate the field, etc., etc.). Higher temps might cause the magnets to come off of the Voloci as I had a magnet come off running stock everything.

I am trying out 48V (on a Voloci motor with an aftermarket controller), so if I used the BHT motor, I'd have 1000W. For now, I am sticking with 36 or 48V, but worth considering using a higher Voltage to get more power out of a smaller motor.

The idea of a chain from the motor to a jackshaft probably won't work because they would be so close together. Using a gear drive might be better (but more challenging to make). Gear for a couple of inches and then chain to the rear sprocket.

Yeah, I like the Voloci wheels and tires. I want moped stuff between me and the ground at anything over bicycle speed. I also like aftermarket brakes for stopping.

Sometimes I fantasize about buying something that someone else made that was modern that the ran without me having to do a lot to it.

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Re: Nova Cruz Voloci Re-vamp

Post by skeetab5780 » Jun 19, 2014 3:15 pm

your new motors sprocket would be on the left side of the bike and you would feed the jackshaft on the left and output the exact same as it does stock. It works fine in my head.

ya idk I powered both motors with same battery and controllers

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Re: Nova Cruz Voloci Re-vamp

Post by electricalbicycle » Jun 20, 2014 11:04 am

I was thinking of having both sprockets on the same side, but tradition would have them on opposite sides, with the shaft running across the bike. I was thinking of a stub shaft with 2 sprockets. But, since the distance from center of motor to jack shaft would be very short, I'd consider gears rather than chain and sprocket as the first reduction and then stock sprocket and chain to the rear.

Thanks for the scientific proof that your newer motor is more powerful than the stock Voloci. I will look into that motor as an alternate to the 5 in. diam motor that I am considering. That bigger motor would require more changes than a smaller motor and the bigger motor weighs more.

Ideally, I get a motor that fits the frame with minimal (or no) changes and then run at a higher Voltage/current. If I go from stock 36V to 48V, the aftermarket controller is fine. Above something like 60V, I would need a new controller since I bought a lower Voltage controller to take advantage a lower RDS FETs. The lower RDS FETs have a lower Voltage rating.

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Re: Nova Cruz Voloci Re-vamp

Post by skeetab5780 » Jun 26, 2014 6:06 am

electricalbicycle wrote: Thanks for the scientific proof that your newer motor is more powerful than the stock Voloci.
Haha no problem, anytime. I've been slacking on the Voloci parts but I will send you a PM

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Re: Nova Cruz Voloci Re-vamp

Post by electricalbicycle » Jul 04, 2014 3:41 pm

For what it is worth, I found some Sintered brake pads that I bought a long time ago when I was trying to save the Voloci RST disc brakes. They are OBE-DR01T. I say "for what its worth" because I never installed them so don't know anything about their performance.

They are from F1 Performance and I just now saw them on DiscoBrakes.

DiscoBrakes says that they are for RST DX Brakes. They also come in Semi-Metalic and Kevlar.

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Re: Nova Cruz Voloci Re-vamp

Post by skeetab5780 » Jul 04, 2014 3:56 pm

Hmm interesting, I'm not actually sure if it is the pads or pull mechanics of these brakes that make them no good. Or maybe a mixture of both, I've may need to try a set of these pads since i'll be needing a set of disc brakes again soon.

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Re: Nova Cruz Voloci Re-vamp

Post by electricalbicycle » Jul 09, 2014 11:17 am

Several bicycle websites say that the RST brakes aren't very good but can be improved by adjustment and possibly by higher quality pads. Looks like several people make pads for RST brakes. Looks like the brakes are "DA".
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Brake Pads for RST.jpg

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Re: Nova Cruz Voloci Re-vamp

Post by electricalbicycle » Jul 27, 2014 8:33 pm

I got two lithium batteries from All-Battery/Tenergy and they fit into an empty Voloci battery case with a bit of room left over for wiring! Yippeee! So far, the plan is to change out the battery case charge connector to a Canon type so I don't use my NiMH charger by mistake (and vice versa). There will be no on-bike charge capability.

Charge connector at one end and the stock discharge bolts at the other.

Voloci with a modern battery!

The Lithium batteries (with built in BMS) are All-Battery 31442. 37V (yes, 37V), 10 A/h.

I went from 13A/h and 20 lbs to 13 lbs and 20 A/h.

So far, so good working on a bench. I hooked them in parallel for the charge and parallel for the discharge. I don't see any reason why they should not work in the Voloci battery case.

They have a slightly higher Voltage so I should be able to go slightly faster and they have 25% more capacity, so I should be able to go 25% further. Being lighter is a plus too.
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Voloci Li batt case comparison.jpg
Voloci Li batt case comparison.jpg (37.36 KiB) Viewed 2397 times
Voloci Li in Batt  case .jpg
Voloci Li in Batt case .jpg (43.88 KiB) Viewed 2397 times

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Re: Nova Cruz Voloci Re-vamp

Post by skeetab5780 » Jul 28, 2014 5:33 am

Those battery packs look great! Glad to see it coming together for you.

What is the rated discharge of those cells/packs? Nice find

I have a feeling if you attempt to use the RST's you will be swapping back to Avid :) I am curious though

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Re: Nova Cruz Voloci Re-vamp

Post by electricalbicycle » Jul 28, 2014 9:37 am

I would keep the RST's for sentimental reasons, if I keep them. The Avids are very nice. I tried Avid BB7's with a 200mm rotor and thought it was too powerful and went to 180mm. The RSTs were just too slow to slow me. MAYBE newer tech pads PLUS a pro-bike shop to dial them in will work...I dunno we'll see.

Had to get a new car and lost my trailer hitch that I used for the Voloci carrier...so until I get a new hitch, not bringing the bike in for brake work.

All-Battery/Tenergy says the packs are 37V @ 10 Ah. They charge to over 40V. They weigh only 5 pounds each!
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Re: Nova Cruz Voloci Re-vamp

Post by skeetab5780 » Jul 28, 2014 9:43 am

Ya I cant seem for the life of me to get Rid of the RST brakes, they just look so nice. The price is pretty fair for those battery packs! I wonder why all of these people are buying junk no name bottle batteries when this option is available. They even claim to handle 50amps...I'm a little skeptical about that.

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Re: Nova Cruz Voloci Re-vamp

Post by electricalbicycle » Aug 08, 2014 11:58 am

Making some progress... the two 37V LiPO packs are working fine on the bench into a 20A load. Parallelled the inputs and paralleled the outputs.

I bought an 8A Li charger and put a mating connector on it.

I put the packs back to back with the leads coming out at the far ends. I taped the packs together to make one long pack. I ran the charge wires to one end and the discharge wires to the other end. I ran them on the tops of the packs since that is where there is some spare room in the Voloci battery can. I have shrink tube on order and that should make for a very neat pack with wires only visible at the ends.

I bought ConXall connectors from the same family as the stock Voloci EXCEPT that I bought 4-pin connectors. As far as I know, the SLA Voloci used a 2-pin connector. The NiMH uses 3 pin and my custom Li Pack uses 4 pin. I paralleled two pins for + and two pins for -. Using a different pin configuration will prevent mismatching of charger and battery. The battery pack charge connector fits exactly where the stock connector was (and should fit in the frame as well).

The 12 lb Voloci LiBatt feels quite light compared to the 23 lb NiMH Voloci pack. BOTH of those are VERY light compared to 40+ lbs of SLA batteries.
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Voloci LiBatt Charge.jpg
Temporary connection of charge connector (wire nuts, some wire length and blue tape are temporary)

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Re: Nova Cruz Voloci Re-vamp

Post by skeetab5780 » Aug 10, 2014 1:07 pm

Nice progress! and nice picture! Glad to see they fit so nicely into the Voloci can and you save so much weight also :)

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Re: Nova Cruz Voloci Re-vamp

Post by electricalbicycle » Aug 13, 2014 10:30 am

It all fit.

I shortened some leads but need some length for a "service loop" to allow for assembly/disassembly. The wires can tuck up neatly in the area above the packs or at the ends of the packs where the terminals are. I added PowerPoles between the packs and the terminals since I don't want Voltage on the terminals until the last minute when I am assembling the pack.

The thermistor terminal on the pack is unused (but put the bolt back in place after I took the photo to keep dirt, etc., out of the pack and to have a spare part should I need it in the future).

I swapped out the original 3-pin ConXAll connectors for 4 pin so that I can prevent accidental misconnection of charger and battery pack. 4 terminals also allow me to parallel 2 for positive and 2 for negative to increase the current handling capability of the connection.

I don't have fuses...relying on the BMSs for that. The 50A fuse that I would use is physically too large. Voloci originally came with a 40A on the discharge terminals but the new pack can put out more (if the controller can take it). I THINK the SLA version of the bike came with a 50A fuse and used the same Voloci controller.

I didn't put a 5A fuse on the charge terminals as I have an 8A charger and I rely (again) on the BMS.

I am waiting on some shrink tube for the final assembly. I will neaten the wire routing a bit and then heat shrink the 2 packs and wires together and then put it into the Voloci metal battery case. If there is any space, I may put in some Velcro fabric tape (the non-hook side) to take up any slack.
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37V 20 Ah Voloci Li Pack.jpg

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Re: Nova Cruz Voloci Re-vamp

Post by electricalbicycle » Aug 13, 2014 10:27 pm

I added insulation to the terminals so it is less likely that they will arc to the case as I am assembling it.

Andersons for Positive and Negative and no connection for the thermistor contact (no thermistor in the Li battery pack). I included the thermistor contact anyway to close off the pack and so that I know where a contact is if I need a spare.

I am waiting on shrink tubing so I can neaten the assembly that goes into the metal battery case.
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Voloci Battery Pack Terminal Insulation.jpg

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Re: Nova Cruz Voloci Re-vamp

Post by skeetab5780 » Apr 13, 2018 8:59 pm

So im going to be reviving this thread. After the unfortunate passing of Nathan Ulrich i was able to obtain some of his prized possessions thru another party who had already moved the items from the estate. After doing some research it seems he and his brothers had a big hand in the design of these bikes and apparently still sell scooters under the name Xootr and it is a multi million dollar operation(Previously known as Nova Cruz)

It seems that amongst the items ive obtained are a few rare prototype esque discoveries that seem to be the real deal in playing a major role in the finished product of what is know as the Voloci

I want to thank everyone who will follow this thread as well as the people who made this all possible. I feel like i have received a true piece of EV history and i encourage anyone else who is interested in the Voloci to try one out.

I completely regret taking my old Voloci apart like i did but it helped everyone get images that we have never seen before and it was chaulked up to research/learning. I get a second chance to try and preserve history once and for all! I joke around and tell all my friends i will have an electric bike museum some day...you never know

I really wish i kept my original Voloci battery packs since i am missing the plastic end plates for them and i used to own two sets not that long ago...

I am noticing a few different variations of the Voloci now that ive owned 12 of them, the first one that i had was actually the newest one out of them all!

Out of the 10 bikes I purchased in the lot, only three of them are like the original bike that started this thread( newer and with the removable nimh slim batteries) but only one out of those three has the red rear shock. Most of the other bikes are all the permanant SLA 36v models (with the larger battery compartments)

A few of the older less OEM more hacked bikes are the ones that are really catching my attention. One was modified for 48v with a beautiful drop down custom aluminum mount.
One (which must have been Nates pride and joy) has a custom blue leather seat with the headlight raised with a custom mount to make it look like a bobber cafe style bike...this one will be my favorite baby. Then there is one that he must have used for off road dirt jumping with a 10 year old downhill fork on it and flawlessly working 10 year old hydro disc brakes. This bike also has a huge rear sprocket so im curious of its speed to torque ratio.
But the one bike that caught my eye the most is the one which im calling The prototype. It is completely different looking and is branded Xootr and has red anodized parts and mag wheels! It looks like the front fork is bent but who cares they suck anyway.

I did get a ton of old new stock parts including OEM motors brand new in box straight from India year 2000


But i didnt get any sprockets and no motor shafts, i didnt get any nimh battery end caps which is rough, i have about 20 aluminum housings for the nimh packs though
Last edited by skeetab5780 on Apr 14, 2018 3:07 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Nova Cruz Voloci Re-vamp

Post by skeetab5780 » Apr 13, 2018 9:26 pm

So here is one of the nice stock bikes, other than a sticky throttle and a bent directional it is really nice overall. Like most of the bikes it is missing the batteries, which is too bad. But if we find someone to 3-d print those end covers for us we can figure something out.

I have yet to get enough time to test any of the bikes with a working battery, so who knows which will work and which wont
Image

Here are some cool Xootr Stickers i found in the mess, i feel like i did not get the entire collection of stuff but there is alot...
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Here is the bike I am calling the Prototype, i have no idea if it actually is...but either way it is really cool and unique! I also noticed the motor looks skinnier and is not part of the main frame. The front forks look bent but idc
Image
It has mag wheels with internal drum brakes and the body is slightly thicker aluminum than the other bikes making its battery compartment a little smaller, overall cool looking bike. The rear sprocket is larger than the stock Voloci but the motor may be different also
Image
Here you can see a shot of its different controller with a missing side cover(shux) and a 48v nimh battery which most likely came from batteryspace.com

I am excited since that means atleast two of these bikes have been upgraded to 48v at some point
Image

Here is another really nice and extremely heavy bike, this is the only other bike that was clearly modified for 48v! It has four giant 12v 16ah SLA batteries stuck in it at the moment. I am having this issue with a few of the bikes...the SLA's have swelled and now they are stuck inside the frame
Image
These items in this box actually seem to be the original mock-up pieces before the final design of the Voloci, they are freshly CNC'd and have permanent marker marks on them and rough drilled holes. The original Voloci sticker decal is also a nice touch
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This i think is my favorite bike of them all. I have to believe this was Nates favorite Voloci for a few reasons. For one this bikes batteries were not stuck in the frame! And it has a completely unique blue leather seat. It also has a few aluminum shined parts instead of the black painted on the stock Voloci. Also the headlight was modified to give the bike a more bobber-ish look and i actually think it works! It seems that the bike was only used at 36v which is unfortunate. But we will have to open the cover up and see

This bike i think is also pretty old since its the only bike out of 10 that have only 1 screw holding the upper support to the main frame...
Image
Last edited by skeetab5780 on Apr 17, 2018 9:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Nova Cruz Voloci Re-vamp

Post by skeetab5780 » Apr 15, 2018 12:53 pm

electricalbicycle wrote:
Mar 30, 2014 10:55 pm
Help with a SLA Voloci?

Anyone have a stock SLA Voloci that they can post photos of? I am curious about how they connected the batteries to the controller. They have a 50A fuse and you remove the fuse before doing firmware upgrade and other service. Is that the only disconnect for the battery?

Where is the 50A fuse located? Is it inside the battery compartment or is it outside the battery compartment where it is accessible?
Four years later i know the answer to this, the fuse is located right above the motor in a water tight holder bolted to the upper seat support behind the battery. I have about 50 of them if you need a few

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Re: Nova Cruz Voloci Re-vamp

Post by skeetab5780 » Apr 16, 2018 11:09 am

I also have 4 bikes with rear racks, they look cool with them but they make it a tad bit harder to swing your leg over and I rarely use them. They require a different top rail which I have a set of too
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Re: Nova Cruz Voloci Re-vamp

Post by skeetab5780 » Apr 17, 2018 9:39 am

So I got one of the bikes running today...and I have to say these things are a freaking blast to ride around. I had a EV grin the entire time. All the controls worked perfect still, they have a economy mode and a fast speed that tops out at 30mph. They handle like a complete dream, super safe feeling and can hug tight corners. With todays technology in batteries these bikes will really shine! You can cram enough 18650's in these compartments for 50 miles easily

Here is one of the bikes with batteries stuck in it (this is the one I was riding today) I had to tek screw pipe straps into the batteries and use a fork truck to pry them loose from the bike, took three people to easily do this
Image
Here is a pile of dead batteries that weigh too much for my liking, I will be recycling these
Image
with a 10s lithium battery the battery gauge lights up full and has not dropped a light yet. these bikes also have an auto off feature...so if you leave the key on like I did it will just shut down until you cycle the key switch again.
Image

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