Turnigy Multistar - lightweight 10C cells

icecube57 · Jan 24, 2015

I just did 4C testing on the multistars 16AH... This is 64A. So 4C puts this pack right at it max discharge capacity. Starting to see diminishing results. The pack was able to stay above 3.5v a cell for 15.7AH. It still delivered a full 16.7AH down to 3.0v. Since we really don't ride it like we stole it and lay on the throttle for the entire ride then I would say this pack is 4C safe. I dont know how long it could sustain it over the cycles but I'm probably going to run 1P in an additive bag for short trips and it still will maintain peak performance over 95% of the discharge. I give it my final approval. I'm not testing any higher. My lead acid battery bank doesn't like to be raped at 60A.

neptronix · Jan 24, 2015

That's impressive that you manage to get all that capacity still.

How bad is the voltage drop on 4C..?

Offroader · Jan 25, 2015

icecube57 said:
Test charts and data for the 16AH Multistars.
https://scontent-a-atl.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/t31.0-8/10548328_10152537041706073_3630190061682242192_o.jpg
https://scontent-a-atl.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/t31.0-8/10929070_10152537041701073_585513403898019709_o.jpg
https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/t31.0-8/10917778_10152537041711073_7982135348547953073_o.jpg

Nice charts there and luckily I know enough about lipo to understand what everything means. The only variable which I don't know is how noticeable is voltage drop.

Even if each lipo cell dropped .2 volts that would only be around 5 volts on a 22s pack. Would 5 volts really matter on a 22s pack when you are already at a high voltage of around 90 volts.

Normally I ride at 18s, but will upgrade to 22s, I would figure the 22s setup would always feel more powerful than the 18s even with a large voltage drop at 22s. Assuming you don't actually have a voltage drop of more than 16 volts of course. This is why I don't see the big deal about voltage drop, especially when I'm limiting my peak wattage with my Max-E.

I guess I'm a bit of an exception because I like to run large packs of over 2500 watt hours or close to 32 amp hours, so drawing only 80-100 amps from those packs is not much, especially when you say it works OK up to 4C. Plus like you say you're not pulling max amps all the time.

striker54 · Jan 27, 2015

Offroader said:
I can't believe you can fit that much in that frame, I don't think the raptor could fit that much. I would relook over everything to make sure. I'd be shocked if that can all fit.

believe me :twisted:

Inside is 22S 40AH of multistars and below a Adaptto MAX-E:

This is just a proof of concept. I don't know if I will leave the controller inside.

Offroader · Jan 27, 2015

striker54 said:
Offroader said:

I can't believe you can fit that much in that frame, I don't think the raptor could fit that much. I would relook over everything to make sure. I'd be shocked if that can all fit.

Click to expand...

believe me
Inside is 22S 40AH of multistars and below a Adaptto MAX-E:

This is just a proof of concept. I don't know if I will leave the controller inside.

Very nice, if I understand this correctly because it is hard to see all packs you should have.

6s 16,000, 6s 16,000, 6s,8000
6s 16000 , 6s 16,000, 6s 8000
6s 16,000, 6s 16000, 6s 8000
4s 16,000, 4s 16,000, 4s 8000

It is just hard to see where the 4s 16,000 packs are.

striker54 · Jan 27, 2015

Offroader said:
It is just hard to see where the 4s 16,000 packs are.

second row from left

Offroader · Jan 27, 2015

striker54 said:
Offroader said:

It is just hard to see where the 4s 16,000 packs are.

Click to expand...

second row from left

OK, I see now, thanks.

One thing that confuses me is that I thought your vector frame was 125mm wide? The 6s packs demensions are 74x68mm.
Maybe your vector frame is wider than 125mm?

striker54 · Jan 27, 2015

Offroader said:
One thing that confuses me is that I thought your vector frame was 125mm wide? The 6s packs demensions are 74x68mm.
Maybe your vector frame is wider than 125mm?

My frame is 125mm, but I didn't told you all. :wink:
i have to use one set of spacers, but i can leave with that.

Offroader · Jan 28, 2015

striker could you measure the thickness of two of those 16,000MAH packs. I am wondering if I could squeeze them in a raptor 140, which may be only 136mm internal frame width.

Thanks!

striker54 · Jan 28, 2015

Offroader said:
striker could you measure the thickness of two of those 16,000MAH packs. I am wondering if I could squeeze them in a raptor 140, which may be only 136mm internal frame width.

Thanks!

You need 4mm more. They measure 140mm.

I tried to compress them with my hands and the best i acheved was 139.5mm

KINNINVIEKID · Jan 29, 2015

If anyone is buying Multistar 16Ah batteries in the next 2 weeks here is a buddy code for $8.68 discount per battery.
http://www.hobbyking.com/buddy.asp?code=F50A0A62-A180-4F9B-B4AE-E6F1C490F1D2

docnjoj · Jan 29, 2015

I just ordered 2 yesterday in the US East warehouse. They are in stock.
otherDoc

thekubiaks · Jan 29, 2015

After a week of testing and spot welding 18650's, I have decided that the Multistar approach is the way to go. I have (1) 16000 6S doing a wonderful job on my 24V 500W hub ebike. I am waiting on two more 16000 6S to run in series for my 48V Bafang BBS02 750W. The whole 18650 project was a PITA, not to mention the fire hazard.

Internal resistance on my first 16000 6S = 2,2,3,3,2,2 mOhm , capacity > 16500maH discharging to 3.5V, pretty awesome.

miuan · Jan 29, 2015

These cells are more or less the same weight per Wh compared to the Samsung 29E 18650s I recently purchased from tumich.
They are probably not as as safe / good quality, and cost about 20% more. The good thing about my 18650s is I got them spot welded in 10S / 11Ah blocks which is great if you need 36V or 72V.
Should I have to put them together myself, I'd probably go for the Turnigys.

Offroader · Jan 29, 2015

striker54 said:
Offroader said:

striker could you measure the thickness of two of those 16,000MAH packs. I am wondering if I could squeeze them in a raptor 140, which may be only 136mm internal frame width.

Thanks!

Click to expand...

You need 4mm more. They measure 140mm.

I tried to compress them with my hands and the best i acheved was 139.5mm

Thanks, that's perfect.

I'm going to have to find out the exact internal width of the raptor 140 frame.

based on Qulbix demension chart it looks to be exactly 140mm, kind of cutting it close.

http://www.qulbix.com/images/documents/Qulbix_Raptor140_BatteryBoxOpenning.pdf

Normally I would consider building a 18650 pack if it is the same weight but the above two posts make me not want to consider it if I can use the multistars. I also like to pop out my packs and individually test them and repair cells when needed.

thekubiaks · Jan 29, 2015

Offroader said:
striker54 said:

Offroader said:

I can't believe you can fit that much in that frame, I don't think the raptor could fit that much. I would relook over everything to make sure. I'd be shocked if that can all fit.

Click to expand...

believe me
Inside is 22S 40AH of multistars and below a Adaptto MAX-E:

This is just a proof of concept. I don't know if I will leave the controller inside.

Click to expand...

Very nice, if I understand this correctly because it is hard to see all packs you should have.

6s 16,000, 6s 16,000, 6s,8000
6s 16000 , 6s 16,000, 6s 8000
6s 16,000, 6s 16000, 6s 8000
4s 16,000, 4s 16,000, 4s 8000

It is just hard to see where the 4s 16,000 packs are.

I never have had more than two batteries in parallel or series so I have a question. If you have the 22S setup as listed above, will having mixed voltages and capacities be an issue?? Will the 4S 16K and the (3) 6S 16K batteries in series act as a single 22S battery and all four batteries drain evenly?? Obviously you couldn't parallel the 4S and 6S batteries because the 6S would make the 4S go boom.

striker54 · Jan 29, 2015

thekubiaks said:
I never have had more than two batteries in parallel or series so I have a question. If you have the 22S setup as listed above, will having mixed voltages and capacities be an issue??

There's no problem.
The mixed capacities are connected in paralell, so they will act as only one big cell.
The mixed voltages are connected in series, so the total voltage will be the sum of each cell voltage

thekubiaks said:
Will the 4S 16K and the (3) 6S 16K batteries in series act as a single 22S battery and all four batteries drain evenly??

Yes, they will drain +/- evenly, not exactly evenly, because each cell have differences in the capacity and internal resistance.
For example a single 6S battery that you buy from hobbyking or other supplier will have differences in capacity and internal resistance of each cell and that's why we need to balance charge the battery.

thekubiaks said:
Obviously you couldn't parallel the 4S and 6S batteries because the 6S would make the 4S go boom.

yes, obviously.

thekubiaks · Jan 29, 2015

Thanks for the explanation.

Offroader · Jan 29, 2015

striker54 said:
Offroader said:

I can't believe you can fit that much in that frame, I don't think the raptor could fit that much. I would relook over everything to make sure. I'd be shocked if that can all fit.

Click to expand...

believe me
Inside is 22S 40AH of multistars and below a Adaptto MAX-E:

This is just a proof of concept. I don't know if I will leave the controller inside.

Striker, hate to ask you to do another measurement, but if you have your side cover open could you measure the width of all the 16amp hour batteries while together in a row of 4.

This would be the center 4 batteries in the middle (or the width of the 6 6s 16,000 batteries + 2 4s 16,000), from looking at the specs of the batteries it should be about 300mm wide.

If I elevate the batteries in the raptor like you have, this will allow me a 300mm wide battery and the side covers will snug around the batteries. The only issue will be to figure if I can get the other batteries to fit inside the frame.

Striker, have you ever weighed your entire 3,256 watt hour pack you have there?

striker54 · Feb 1, 2015

Offroader said:
Striker, hate to ask you to do another measurement, but if you have your side cover open could you measure the width of all the 16amp hour batteries while together in a row of 4.

This would be the center 4 batteries in the middle (or the width of the 6 6s 16,000 batteries + 2 4s 16,000), from looking at the specs of the batteries it should be about 300mm wide.

No problem Offroader. It will fit:

Offroader said:
Striker, have you ever weighed your entire 3,256 watt hour pack you have there?

Around 18kg (40 pounds) :shock:

KINNINVIEKID · Feb 1, 2015

If you turn the batteries round you will save another 24mm

docnjoj · Feb 3, 2015

My two 16 amp/hr multistar arrived yesterday. Very quick service and all cells were 3.91. Looking good so far for my venture into the "Dark Side".
otherDoc

icecube57 · Feb 3, 2015

Cycle them.. yeah i know how long it takes. You should be arouns 16.6 to 16.8AH if you have a good pack. I do have some low fliers that barely give 16ah but did improve slightly after a cycle or two.

docnjoj · Feb 3, 2015

Thanks IC57. I have to wait till tomorrow when I get a few connectors (xt90?) coming from BuddyRC. I waz gunna just clip off those on the batts and put on my usual Sermos (Powerpole) ones but then I thought: What if they fail after a week? So I bought some opposite xt90 and will make adapters until I know they are good.
otherDoc

icecube57 · Feb 3, 2015

I know you dont use anything for high power. Better throw some 4mm bullets or pp45 on it and keep it moving.

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