Newbie Build

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Oscillator   100 µW

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Newbie Build

Post by Oscillator » May 03 2019 3:56pm

Hello All,
My name is Oscar and I am from the USA. I've been wanting to convert my mountain bike to electric for a few years now, I came across Michah Toll's DIY ebike book and found out about EndlessSphere from their. I was hoping to get some feedback from some more experienced people and hope to be able to share my build. What I'm looking to do is to convert my low end Trek mountain bike to electric, I plan to use a rear hub design. Keeping cost down is important which is why I have chosen to go with BMSBattery.com. They have great prices and all in one kits that seem easy for a first time builder, the shipping is outrageous but all in all is still a good value. While doing some research though, I've read that they are not well known for their batteries and controllers, hopefully someone can confirm or deny that. My goals with this bike are:

-Be able to reach up to 20mph and maintain that
-Be able to get ample or full assistance up hills
-A range of anywhere from 15 to 30 miles
-I will be using a 26inch rim and V brakes, although I would like to convert the front brake to disc (not sure if it will be cost efficient though)
-My weight is 210lbs and I plan to primarily use this around the city and through easy dirt trails here and there
-Keep the build inconspicuous, out of sight as much as possible/if possible

The kit i have in mind is the Q100 36V 350W
https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-kit/577-16 ... splay-lcd1

I understand this kit probably will not meet the criteria of which I'm looking for but I thought this is where I could start and down the line add a front hub Q100 motor, overvolt both motors and run a larger capacity battery if needed.

I've also considered the Q11 1000watt motor but they do not sell this in a kit from what I can find.

I look forward to all your responses, thanks!
Last edited by Oscillator on May 08 2019 2:40pm, edited 1 time in total.

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E-HP   10 kW

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Re: Newbie Build

Post by E-HP » May 03 2019 5:51pm

Oscillator wrote:
May 03 2019 3:56pm
The kit i have in mind is the Q100 36V 350W
https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-kit/577-16 ... splay-lcd1

I understand this kit probably will not meet the criteria of which I'm looking for but I thought this is where I could start and down the line add a front hub Q100 motor, overvolt both motors and run a larger capacity battery if needed.
Since that motor spins 201 rpm @ 36V, or about 15.5 mph with a 26" wheel, then it should be able to hit 20 mph @ 48 volts, so maybe just start with a 48 volt pack? Also, the controller for that kit is built into the bottle battery mount, so you're sort of locking yourself into using that battery, so when you upgrade you'll need to upgrade both.

Why not this kit:
https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-kit/529-q1 ... e-kit.html

Then add a 48 volt battery:
https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-battery/92 ... _rate_10ah

Which comes to about $25 more than the other kit.

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Re: Newbie Build

Post by docw009 » May 03 2019 9:56pm

A Q100H motor kit in a 26" wheel from BMSBattery will cost you $235 shipped. I've been a BMS battery customer. I've bought three bare Q100H motors from them for about $120 shipped each. Spoked them myself into 20" rims and bought my own controllers. Probably spent close to $300. However, seeing how BMS Battery builds a 20" wheel, I know I have a far better wheel doing it myself. For a 26" wheel, they would do it better.

However, I think the Q128 is a stronger motor for your bike.

You might want to look at the threads on the ebikeling geared motor kit. You can get their 500W motor kit for about the same price as the above,

26" wheel, 500W 22A controller, LED display with 3 speed PAS.
https://www.amazon.com/EBIKELING-Waterp ... th=1&psc=1

The above kit comes with waterproof connectors. The same kit with the usual rats nest connectors (same as BMSbattery) is about only $165 when in stock.

I've converted three bikes with ebikeling 500W motors. On 36V. they're good for about 20 mph on throttle. I believe 48V will go a little faster, about 24 mph. I've gone that fast in casual trials with 48V.

This is my Trek 800 with a $280 36V10AH bottle battery and a $200 ebikeling motor. Yep. $500 conversion.
Trek-2.jpg
Trek-2.jpg (171.39 KiB) Viewed 917 times
This is a Schwinn beater bike with another $200 ebikeling motor, but I am using a 20A sine wave controller with an LCD, which was about $90. It's running on some cheap scooter batteries in the battery bag. So you're looking at the motor/controller at $300.
Trek-4.jpg
Trek-4.jpg (139.63 KiB) Viewed 917 times
The three level PAS on the ebikeling controller is good for 12-13 mph, 15-16 mph, and 18-20 mph on 36V. I cannot recommend the SW900 LCD with 5 level PAS because mine purchased 14 month ago had some serious deficiencies, causing me to use a sine wave controller. These may have been addressed with his later kits. As far as range, I am atypical because I don't ride much faster than 14 mph, so I don't use much power. I can get 20 miles out of 5 AH.

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Re: Newbie Build

Post by motomech » May 04 2019 2:21am

docw009 wrote:
May 03 2019 9:56pm
A Q100H motor kit in a 26" wheel from BMSBattery will cost you $235 shipped. I've been a BMS battery customer. I've bought three bare Q100H motors from them for about $120 shipped each. Spoked them myself into 20" rims and bought my own controllers. Probably spent close to $300. However, seeing how BMS Battery builds a 20" wheel, I know I have a far better wheel doing it myself. For a 26" wheel, they would do it better.

However, I think the Q128 is a stronger motor for your bike.

You might want to look at the threads on the ebikeling geared motor kit. You can get their 500W motor kit for about the same price as the above,

26" wheel, 500W 22A controller, LED display with 3 speed PAS.
https://www.amazon.com/EBIKELING-Waterp ... th=1&psc=1

The above kit comes with waterproof connectors. The same kit with the usual rats nest connectors (same as BMSbattery) is about only $165 when in stock.

I've converted three bikes with ebikeling 500W motors. On 36V. they're good for about 20 mph on throttle. I believe 48V will go a little faster, about 24 mph. I've gone that fast in casual trials with 48V.

This is my Trek 800 with a $280 36V10AH bottle battery and a $200 ebikeling motor. Yep. $500 conversion.
Trek-2.jpg

This is a Schwinn beater bike with another $200 ebikeling motor, but I am using a 20A sine wave controller with an LCD, which was about $90. It's running on some cheap scooter batteries in the battery bag. So you're looking at the motor/controller at $300.
Trek-4.jpg

The three level PAS on the ebikeling controller is good for 12-13 mph, 15-16 mph, and 18-20 mph on 36V. I cannot recommend the SW900 LCD with 5 level PAS because mine purchased 14 month ago had some serious deficiencies, causing me to use a sine wave controller. These may have been addressed with his later kits. As far as range, I am atypical because I don't ride much faster than 14 mph, so I don't use much power. I can get 20 miles out of 5 AH.
Those Ebikeling kits look better and better to me. Not having to deal with replacing all the connectors when mix-matching the BMS Batt. stuff is HUGE!
I think that geared motor has some distant connection to the Original MXUS geared and more recently, the discontinued Outrider from Grin. If fact, pretty sure the OutRider stand. at the Ebike CA sim. has the same parameters(260 RPM rated @ 36 Volts).
I would go with the rear/led/twist combo and put the money saved into a premium Batt(whole 'nother subject), flat resistant tires and the DNP 11 sm. tooth free wheel.
I've found that the simple square wave, speed limiting, 3-speed PAS works fine at speeds into the lower/mid 20's MPH, where the speeds between speed settings is not that great.
When I started, lot's of info was great while learning(I started w/ a Cycle Analyst), but these days all I care about is batt. discharging and for that all I need is a Voltmeter on my LiPoly.
I would miss the left-hand, half-twist throttle from BMS Batt.(Don't know where to get them in the States), so it would be the thumb on the left and stay on the PAS most of the time.
Yeah, if I was going to build another Ebike, I would deffinately go w/ that kit.
Motomech

'03 Rocky Mountain Edge 2WD 260 Q100H frt and Ezee V1 rear 2 Elifebike 20A & 25A 9-FET controllers 12S/10Ah Multistar Lipo rear 4Ah Turnigy frt Luna Cyclops Extra lite Alex 24DM rims, Crazy Bobs run ghetto tubeless. 25 mph. Mean Well HLG-320H-54A
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =3&t=83430
'07 GT Idive 4 4.0, Q100C 201 14S LiPoly elifebike 9-FET 20A controller. 23 MPH.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 4#p1378484

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Re: Newbie Build

Post by Oscillator » May 06 2019 4:20pm

E-HP wrote:
May 03 2019 5:51pm

Since that motor spins 201 rpm @ 36V, or about 15.5 mph with a 26" wheel, then it should be able to hit 20 mph @ 48 volts, so maybe just start with a 48 volt pack? Also, the controller for that kit is built into the bottle battery mount, so you're sort of locking yourself into using that battery, so when you upgrade you'll need to upgrade both.

Why not this kit:
https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-kit/529-q1 ... e-kit.html

Then add a 48 volt battery:
https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-battery/92 ... _rate_10ah

Which comes to about $25 more than the other kit.
Great feedback, I didn't realize the controller was integrated. My initial plan was actually to go with a 1K watt motor, I like the performance and cost of it, one thing I forgot to mention though, was that I'm also trying to build the bike as incognito as possible, I don't want to give thieves more reason to want to steal my bike. The advantage of the Q100 is that its very inconspicuous compared to the monstrous Q11, the Q11 is still in the running, might just throw some sort of GPS tracker as a safeguard.

If I were to go with the Q100 Kit:

https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-kit/371-15 ... 13-rpm-201

and overvolt it to 48 volts, would I be able to run this battery?:

https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-battery/92 ... _35ah_14ah

and this controller?

https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-kit/551-16 ... ge-36v_48v

The battery is rated at 15amps continuous and the controller is rated up to 30 amps. Does this mean if the motor pulls 15 amps at 48 volts that the motor will be pulling 720watts? Would the controller be compatible with the motor?

Additional Questions:
How would I go about swapping over my 7speed casette to either the Q100 or Q11. Do they require Free Wheels?
Is the wheel size with rim and tire or just the rim?

I ultimately would like to end up installing a mid drive kit, specifically Bafang's BBS02, but considering its cost I had planned to save that for the future. Maybe it would make more sense to scratch the hub motor and go for the mid drive from the start? I'm really eager to build but am weary about dropping an exuberant amount of money for something I'm not familiar with, If I build something under powered I will likely end up installing it on my wifes bike which would more likely better suit her

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Re: Newbie Build

Post by motomech » May 06 2019 6:17pm

Oscillator wrote:
May 06 2019 4:20pm
E-HP wrote:
May 03 2019 5:51pm

Since that motor spins 201 rpm @ 36V, or about 15.5 mph with a 26" wheel, then it should be able to hit 20 mph @ 48 volts, so maybe just start with a 48 volt pack? Also, the controller for that kit is built into the bottle battery mount, so you're sort of locking yourself into using that battery, so when you upgrade you'll need to upgrade both.

Why not this kit:
https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-kit/529-q1 ... e-kit.html

Then add a 48 volt battery:
https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-battery/92 ... _rate_10ah

Which comes to about $25 more than the other kit.
Great feedback, I didn't realize the controller was integrated. My initial plan was actually to go with a 1K watt motor, I like the performance and cost of it, one thing I forgot to mention though, was that I'm also trying to build the bike as incognito as possible, I don't want to give thieves more reason to want to steal my bike. The advantage of the Q100 is that its very inconspicuous compared to the monstrous Q11, the Q11 is still in the running, might just throw some sort of GPS tracker as a safeguard.

If I were to go with the Q100 Kit:

https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-kit/371-15 ... 13-rpm-201

and overvolt it to 48 volts, would I be able to run this battery?:

https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-battery/92 ... _35ah_14ah

and this controller?

https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-kit/551-16 ... ge-36v_48v

The battery is rated at 15amps continuous and the controller is rated up to 30 amps. Does this mean if the motor pulls 15 amps at 48 volts that the motor will be pulling 720watts? Would the controller be compatible with the motor?

Additional Questions:
How would I go about swapping over my 7speed casette to either the Q100 or Q11. Do they require Free Wheels?
Is the wheel size with rim and tire or just the rim?

I ultimately would like to end up installing a mid drive kit, specifically Bafang's BBS02, but considering its cost I had planned to save that for the future. Maybe it would make more sense to scratch the hub motor and go for the mid drive from the start? I'm really eager to build but am weary about dropping an exuberant amount of money for something I'm not familiar with, If I build something under powered I will likely end up installing it on my wifes bike which would more likely better suit her
The Q100 and the Q11 are opposite ends of the spectrum, like trying to decide between a Neon and a Viper.
and this controller?

https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-kit/551-16 ... ge-36v_48v

The battery is rated at 15amps continuous and the controller is rated up to 30 amps. Does this mean if the motor pulls 15 amps at 48 volts that the motor will be pulling 720watts? Would the controller be compatible with the motor?
That controller is huge! Max batt. discharge rate limits Current, that controller would be a space stealing waste of $$$.
Additional Questions:
How would I go about swapping over my 7speed casette to either the Q100 or Q11. Do they require Free Wheels?
That is a free wheel only motor. An Enoch DNP 11 sm. tooth free wheel would be the best choice to get the best pedal-along gearing, about $50 shipped.
Is the wheel size with rim and tire or just the rim?
They are the same, a 26" tire fits a 26" rim. That package is rim only, no tire.
You will also need 2) torque arms, a throttle, spoke wrench (whl. will likely need some tightening) and it's doubtful the controller's connectors will match up to to the motor, PAS, throttle connectors. I usually replace them all w/ various sizes of Turnigy bullets.
W/ your lack of experience, you would be much better off w/ the Ebikeling kit that's linked. It just plugs together and the motor speed rating (260rpm @ 36V)is much better for a 48 V batt. 201=19 or 20 mph, 260=22 or 23 mph.
You could still get the batt. from BMS Battery, as their batt.s are generally good. The shipping cost from them are calculated by weight and size, so the freight may not be too crazy
Motomech

'03 Rocky Mountain Edge 2WD 260 Q100H frt and Ezee V1 rear 2 Elifebike 20A & 25A 9-FET controllers 12S/10Ah Multistar Lipo rear 4Ah Turnigy frt Luna Cyclops Extra lite Alex 24DM rims, Crazy Bobs run ghetto tubeless. 25 mph. Mean Well HLG-320H-54A
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =3&t=83430
'07 GT Idive 4 4.0, Q100C 201 14S LiPoly elifebike 9-FET 20A controller. 23 MPH.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 4#p1378484

Oscillator   100 µW

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Re: Newbie Build

Post by Oscillator » May 06 2019 8:59pm

docw009 wrote:
May 03 2019 9:56pm
You might want to look at the threads on the ebikeling geared motor kit. You can get their 500W motor kit for about the same price as the above,

26" wheel, 500W 22A controller, LED display with 3 speed PAS.
https://www.amazon.com/EBIKELING-Waterp ... th=1&psc=1

The above kit comes with waterproof connectors. The same kit with the usual rats nest connectors (same as BMSbattery) is about only $165 when in stock.

I've converted three bikes with ebikeling 500W motors. On 36V. they're good for about 20 mph on throttle. I believe 48V will go a little faster, about 24 mph. I've gone that fast in casual trials with 48V.

The three level PAS on the ebikeling controller is good for 12-13 mph, 15-16 mph, and 18-20 mph on 36V. I cannot recommend the SW900 LCD with 5 level PAS because mine purchased 14 month ago had some serious deficiencies, causing me to use a sine wave controller. These may have been addressed with his later kits. As far as range, I am atypical because I don't ride much faster than 14 mph, so I don't use much power. I can get 20 miles out of 5 AH.
Thanks for the reference and nice bikes! Is the PAS required on these or can you run solely with the throttle? This really seems like a great all inclusive kit, any recommendations on batteries? I'm looking to get one with a lock.

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Re: Newbie Build

Post by Oscillator » May 06 2019 9:15pm

motomech wrote:
May 06 2019 6:17pm

The Q100 and the Q11 are opposite ends of the spectrum, like trying to decide between a Neon and a Viper.

That controller is huge! Max batt. discharge rate limits Current, that controller would be a space stealing waste of $$$.

They are the same, a 26" tire fits a 26" rim. That package is rim only, no tire.
You will also need 2) torque arms, a throttle, spoke wrench (whl. will likely need some tightening) and it's doubtful the controller's connectors will match up to to the motor, PAS, throttle connectors. I usually replace them all w/ various sizes of Turnigy bullets.
W/ your lack of experience, you would be much better off w/ the Ebikeling kit that's linked. It just plugs together and the motor speed rating (260rpm @ 36V)is much better for a 48 V batt. 201=19 or 20 mph, 260=22 or 23 mph.
You could still get the batt. from BMS Battery, as their batt.s are generally good. The shipping cost from them are calculated by weight and size, so the freight may not be too crazy
All great info, thank you! I guess I was looking to turn that Neon into a SRT4 :D , you bring up a lot of good points, overvolting seems like a lot of effort for a first time build and I'll be needing more components than I thought. That Ebikeling kit seems great, good price, good performance, all inclusive and relatively inconspicuous. I think I may just go that route.

So when I choose wheel size they are referring to specifically the rim diameter so the added tire height shouldn't matter correct ?

Also, would a 48v battery connect directly to this kit or should I stick with the 36v rated battery?

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motomech   1 GW

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Re: Newbie Build

Post by motomech » May 07 2019 11:44pm

Is the PAS required on these or can you run solely with the throttle?
Don't make this common newbie mistake and think that you don't want or need PAS. It is included in this kit and there is something satisfying about having the motor engage when you start to pedal, and it's a great way to give your thumb a break. Even these low tech PAS systems work well on a low-powered bike like we are talking about.
Also, would a 48v battery connect directly to this kit or should I stick with the 36v rated battery?
The Voltage doesn't have anything to do w/ what type of the connector the batt. and controller use
Providing the battery has a LVC (Low Voltage Cut-off), you could use either a 36 V or 48V pack. a 48 V unit will add 2 to 3 mph to the top speed.
Other than that, I can'tr comment of Li-Ion packs as I use a different chem.
perhaps doc009 will comment on the batt. he used (or you could message him).
Motomech

'03 Rocky Mountain Edge 2WD 260 Q100H frt and Ezee V1 rear 2 Elifebike 20A & 25A 9-FET controllers 12S/10Ah Multistar Lipo rear 4Ah Turnigy frt Luna Cyclops Extra lite Alex 24DM rims, Crazy Bobs run ghetto tubeless. 25 mph. Mean Well HLG-320H-54A
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =3&t=83430
'07 GT Idive 4 4.0, Q100C 201 14S LiPoly elifebike 9-FET 20A controller. 23 MPH.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 4#p1378484

lionman   100 W

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Re: Newbie Build

Post by lionman » May 08 2019 2:16am

I have electrified my Trek Marlin 5.

I bought a 1500w 29er kit from Pasion Ebike on Aliexpress. Kit was about 450USD delivered to Australia. Comes with half throttle, pas, LCD3 and 18 fet KT controller that handles up to 14S and draws 40A peak. The rim is pretty heavy duty and they use 12G spokes which are ridiculously thick (I dont think this is actually a good thing).

I built my own battery. 14S 8P (52V 23Ah) using Panasonic PF cells from NKON in the Netherlands and a 60A Smart BMS from Aliexpress. All the parts needed came out to around 500USD including a spot welder.

All up cost around 950USD. The bike is super fun to ride. Top speed is around 55kph (35mph) or so.

Image

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Re: Newbie Build

Post by E-HP » May 08 2019 10:51am

lionman wrote:I have electrified my Trek Marlin 5.
The dropouts on that frame look great for easy torque arm mounting.

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Re: Newbie Build

Post by Oscillator » May 08 2019 2:49pm

motomech wrote:
May 07 2019 11:44pm
Don't make this common newbie mistake and think that you don't want or need PAS. It is included in this kit and there is something satisfying about having the motor engage when you start to pedal, and it's a great way to give your thumb a break. Even these low tech PAS systems work well on a low-powered bike like we are talking about.
Alright, wont argue with that, lol
motomech wrote:
May 07 2019 11:44pm
The Voltage doesn't have anything to do w/ what type of the connector the batt. and controller use
Providing the battery has a LVC (Low Voltage Cut-off), you could use either a 36 V or 48V pack. a 48 V unit will add 2 to 3 mph to the top speed.
Other than that, I can'tr comment of Li-Ion packs as I use a different chem.
perhaps doc009 will comment on the batt. he used (or you could message him).
I was more concerned about the controller, I know some controllers are advertised for a specific voltage wasn't sure if a controller would be needed when overvolting

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Re: Newbie Build

Post by Oscillator » May 08 2019 2:51pm

lionman wrote:
May 08 2019 2:16am
I have electrified my Trek Marlin 5.

I bought a 1500w 29er kit from Pasion Ebike on Aliexpress. Kit was about 450USD delivered to Australia. Comes with half throttle, pas, LCD3 and 18 fet KT controller that handles up to 14S and draws 40A peak. The rim is pretty heavy duty and they use 12G spokes which are ridiculously thick (I dont think this is actually a good thing).

I built my own battery. 14S 8P (52V 23Ah) using Panasonic PF cells from NKON in the Netherlands and a 60A Smart BMS from Aliexpress. All the parts needed came out to around 500USD including a spot welder.

All up cost around 950USD. The bike is super fun to ride. Top speed is around 55kph (35mph) or so.
Wasn't able to see the image but thanks for passing on the info!

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Re: Newbie Build

Post by Oscillator » May 08 2019 3:21pm

So the new build I've come up with is

Bike: 2008 (I think) Trek 820

Rear Hub motor: https://www.amazon.com/EBIKELING-Waterp ... th=1&psc=1
As recommended by you guys, going with the LED to avoid any issues

Freewheel: https://www.amazon.com/Shimano-MF-TZ31- ... way&sr=8-4
Has the best reviews and am familiar with Shimano, original cassette was a 13 - 34 whereas this one is a
14 -34, don't know if I'll need a new chain, I'll order the proper socket for the freewheel as well

Battery:
36V https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-battery/93 ... controller

If I go with a 48V https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-battery/92 ... _rate_10ah

Comments, concerns?
Thanks!

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E-HP   10 kW

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Re: Newbie Build

Post by E-HP » May 08 2019 3:56pm

Oscillator wrote:
May 08 2019 3:21pm
So the new build I've come up with is

Bike: 2008 (I think) Trek 820

Rear Hub motor: https://www.amazon.com/EBIKELING-Waterp ... th=1&psc=1
As recommended by you guys, going with the LED to avoid any issues

Freewheel: https://www.amazon.com/Shimano-MF-TZ31- ... way&sr=8-4
Has the best reviews and am familiar with Shimano, original cassette was a 13 - 34 whereas this one is a
14 -34, don't know if I'll need a new chain, I'll order the proper socket for the freewheel as well

Battery:
36V https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-battery/93 ... controller

If I go with a 48V https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-battery/92 ... _rate_10ah

Comments, concerns?
Thanks!
The kit already comes with a freewheel and controller, so maybe just save the money and put it towards the 48 volt battery.

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Re: Newbie Build

Post by motomech » May 08 2019 4:05pm

Oscillator wrote:
May 08 2019 3:21pm
So the new build I've come up with is

Bike: 2008 (I think) Trek 820

Rear Hub motor: https://www.amazon.com/EBIKELING-Waterp ... th=1&psc=1
As recommended by you guys, going with the LED to avoid any issues

Freewheel: https://www.amazon.com/Shimano-MF-TZ31- ... way&sr=8-4
Has the best reviews and am familiar with Shimano, original cassette was a 13 - 34 whereas this one is a
14 -34, don't know if I'll need a new chain, I'll order the proper socket for the freewheel as well

Battery:
36V https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-battery/93 ... controller

If I go with a 48V https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-battery/92 ... _rate_10ah

Comments, concerns?
Thanks!
Freewheel: https://www.amazon.com/Shimano-MF-TZ31- ... way&sr=8-4
Has the best reviews and am familiar with Shimano, original cassette was a 13 - 34 whereas this one is a
14 -34, don't know if I'll need a new chain, I'll order the proper socket for the freewheel as well
That is Not a free wheel. I know it says free wheel and I can't explain why they don't call it a cassette. Perhaps it's some snobby nomenclature thing; freehub cassette, free wheel cassette, etc. Free wheels screw on, that has splines.
For the third time (this is like pulling teeth), you need an Enoch DNP free whl. w/ an 11 tooth sm. sprocket so you can have a relaxed pedal over 20 mph. Period!
I was more concerned about the controller, I know some controllers are advertised for a specific voltage wasn't sure if a controller would be needed when overvolting
The limiting thing about controller Voltage is the rated capacity of the capacitors. They are 52 Volts in genaric controllers, so it will handle 48 Volts. The other thing is the LVC. Both of those batteries you listed have a LVC, although BMS Battery has stupidly left that important info off their page.
Personaly, I would use a 48 Volt battery because I find sub 20 mph cruising boring. 22 or 23 mph is way more fun.
For $40 extra, I would get the Samsung cells, they are worth the extra money.
Also, you should get a left-hand, half-twist throttle and spoke wrench when ordering from BMS Battery, they only cost a few Dollars.
You may not think you want to go 23 mph now, but you will. It's the sweet spot on these things. Better to build it to go 23 MPH and set the speed limiter to 19 MPH if you wish, than to not have the higher speed setting available at all.
If you are serious and getting ready to order from BMS Battery, let me know and I can tell you what you need to do.
Motomech

'03 Rocky Mountain Edge 2WD 260 Q100H frt and Ezee V1 rear 2 Elifebike 20A & 25A 9-FET controllers 12S/10Ah Multistar Lipo rear 4Ah Turnigy frt Luna Cyclops Extra lite Alex 24DM rims, Crazy Bobs run ghetto tubeless. 25 mph. Mean Well HLG-320H-54A
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =3&t=83430
'07 GT Idive 4 4.0, Q100C 201 14S LiPoly elifebike 9-FET 20A controller. 23 MPH.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 4#p1378484

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motomech   1 GW

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Location: Punta Cana Baja Mexico

Re: Newbie Build

Post by motomech » May 08 2019 4:20pm

I know this is running into more money than you originally thought you would have to spend, that's the way w/ these Ebikes. Even if you bought a "factory" ebike that you could ride right away, you wouldn't be happy and it would cost you more to get it the way you want than what you are doing now.
And you are not done yet.
If you are like 90 % of us, you will start getting flat tires. Maybe it's the extra miles you will be traveling or maybe it's Murphy's law of Ebikes, which states;
The harder to get the whl. off, the more likely you will get a flat.
At least you can add flat resistant tires and tubes later.
You don't need to build a World beater for the first Ebike, but it's worth while to get some things right the first time around. And they are enough speed and range (figure 1 1/2 miles per Ah), bike gearing, the throttle and batt. quality.
And tires
Motomech

'03 Rocky Mountain Edge 2WD 260 Q100H frt and Ezee V1 rear 2 Elifebike 20A & 25A 9-FET controllers 12S/10Ah Multistar Lipo rear 4Ah Turnigy frt Luna Cyclops Extra lite Alex 24DM rims, Crazy Bobs run ghetto tubeless. 25 mph. Mean Well HLG-320H-54A
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =3&t=83430
'07 GT Idive 4 4.0, Q100C 201 14S LiPoly elifebike 9-FET 20A controller. 23 MPH.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 4#p1378484

Oscillator   100 µW

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Re: Newbie Build

Post by Oscillator » May 08 2019 9:58pm

motomech wrote:
May 08 2019 4:05pm
That is Not a free wheel. I know it says free wheel and I can't explain why they don't call it a cassette. Perhaps it's some snobby nomenclature thing; freehub cassette, free wheel cassette, etc. Free wheels screw on, that has splines.
I wasn't entirely sure if this was a cassette or freewheel at first either, in the questions section people have confirmed this to be a freewheel and not a cassette, stating that the picture displayed may be incorrect and needs to be addressed. Also I think those splines in the center are the cutouts for the removal tool

One of the freewheel comments thread: https://www.amazon.com/ask/questions/Tx ... _ql_al_hza

Freewheel socket: https://www.amazon.com/Park-Tool-Freewh ... QXMVB31SAZ
This socket looks to match the same dimension as those splines you referred to


motomech wrote:
May 08 2019 4:05pm
For the third time (this is like pulling teeth), you need an Enoch DNP free whl. w/ an 11 tooth sm. sprocket so you can have a relaxed pedal over 20 mph. Period!
I believe this is the freewheel you are referring to: https://www.amazon.com/DNP-Epoch-Freewh ... merReviews
I had considered this and was going to go with it but, I started looking for other free wheels when I saw some of the negative reviews stating that it is not durable and noisy. Hell, Amazon has 30 day return, I'm willing to give the DNP a shot.

motomech wrote:
May 08 2019 4:05pm
The limiting thing about controller Voltage is the rated capacity of the capacitors. They are 52 Volts in genaric controllers, so it will handle 48 Volts. The other thing is the LVC. Both of those batteries you listed have a LVC, although BMS Battery has stupidly left that important info off their page.
Personaly, I would use a 48 Volt battery because I find sub 20 mph cruising boring. 22 or 23 mph is way more fun.
For $40 extra, I would get the Samsung cells, they are worth the extra money.
Also, you should get a left-hand, half-twist throttle and spoke wrench when ordering from BMS Battery, they only cost a few Dollars.
You may not think you want to go 23 mph now, but you will. It's the sweet spot on these things. Better to build it to go 23 MPH and set the speed limiter to 19 MPH if you wish, than to not have the higher speed setting available at all.
If you are serious and getting ready to order from BMS Battery, let me know and I can tell you what you need to do.
Good to know the controller can handle 48V, thank you. I'd preferably would like to go for the 48V Samsung batteries right off the bat. I have a preference to right hand twist throttles from riding motorcycles, and I'll make sure to pick up a spoke wrench. As far as how serious I am, I'm just looking for positive feedback on my selected components before moving forward, I'd love to hear what I need to know when ordering from BMS, thanks!

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E-HP   10 kW

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Re: Newbie Build

Post by E-HP » May 08 2019 10:10pm

Oscillator wrote:
May 08 2019 9:58pm
I believe this is the freewheel you are referring to: https://www.amazon.com/DNP-Epoch-Freewh ... merReviews
I had considered this and was going to go with it but, I started looking for other free wheels when I saw some of the negative reviews stating that it is not durable and noisy. Hell, Amazon has 30 day return, I'm willing to give the DNP a shot.
Note that depending on your hub motor and axle, you may need a spacer washer that is small enough to fit within the diameter of the DNP freewheel opening. That would happen if the shoulder of the axle doesn't extend far enough past the freewheel.

https://www.ebikes.ca/shop/electric-bic ... wash5.html

The freewheel I was using before the DNP didn't require a washer (you can order them on Amazon too). A "C" washer will work for a while, but bends over time, so only good for a temporary solution.

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motomech   1 GW

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Location: Punta Cana Baja Mexico

Re: Newbie Build

Post by motomech » May 08 2019 10:52pm

I believe this is the freewheel you are referring to: https://www.amazon.com/DNP-Epoch-Freewh ... merReviews
I had considered this and was going to go with it but, I started looking for other free wheels when I saw some of the negative reviews stating that it is not durable and noisy. Hell, Amazon has 30 day return, I'm willing to give the DNP a shot.
Yes, that's it. You haven't told us anything about your donor bike except that it's a mountain bike, so it probably has something like a 46 tooth chain ring. You have to have an 11 T sm. gear on the free wheel or your legs will be pumping like a cartoon cyclist at cruise. The DNP is heavy and expensive, but it was improved a couple of years ago and is smooth enough. It's a must have.
I have a preference to right hand twist throttles from riding motorcycles
Once the motor is installed, you will get to the point where you shift very little, 2 gears, 3 at most. You will never shift the chain ring, so the shifter on the left can be moved or removed freeing up valuable handle bar space. That's why the Lh, throttle works well, the right side shifter can be left alone. There is no learning curve on a left side twist throttle, it feels natural right away. If you don't believe me(a bad habit you have:), at least buy one of ea., so you have the option(and while you are at it, get an extra torque arm. Your kit comes with one, but two is always good to have.) All these things are like $2 ea., so the time to get is now because the frieght cost prohibits buying little things later
I'd love to hear what I need to know when ordering from BMS, thanks!
It's best to get and talk to sales rep via Email. Before the order, have them confirm that your batt is in stock, then order and have them verify the part #. This is the best way to make sure you get the right thing. they will tell you they will send a confirmation # number when they ship, but they usually don't. A couple of weeks will go by(more if it's Chinese new year), then they will send you a tracking # and the box will show up the next day. Something like that. Use Pay Pal.
The freewheel I was using before the DNP didn't require a washer (you can order them on Amazon too). A "C" washer will work for a while, but bends over time, so only good for a temporary solution.
Yes usually a spacer needs to go between the free whl and the inside of the chain stay to keep the two from rubbing together. But it's just a standard flat washer. Available at any hardware.
Motomech

'03 Rocky Mountain Edge 2WD 260 Q100H frt and Ezee V1 rear 2 Elifebike 20A & 25A 9-FET controllers 12S/10Ah Multistar Lipo rear 4Ah Turnigy frt Luna Cyclops Extra lite Alex 24DM rims, Crazy Bobs run ghetto tubeless. 25 mph. Mean Well HLG-320H-54A
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =3&t=83430
'07 GT Idive 4 4.0, Q100C 201 14S LiPoly elifebike 9-FET 20A controller. 23 MPH.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 4#p1378484

docw009   100 kW

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Location: Chicago area suburbs.

Re: Newbie Build

Post by docw009 » May 08 2019 11:26pm

motomech wrote:
May 08 2019 4:05pm
[
The limiting thing about controller Voltage is the rated capacity of the capacitors. They are 52 Volts in genaric controllers, so it will handle 48 Volts. The other thing is the LVC. Both of those batteries you listed have a LVC, although BMS Battery has stupidly left that important info off their page.
Capacitors are available with ratings of 52V and 63V. Controllers rated by the manufacturer for 48V operation will have the capacitors rated for 63V, because the voltage of a fully charged "48V" 18650 pack is 54.6 volts. Sure, you might run the lower rated capacitor on a 48V battery a long time. It's not a hard threshold. After all, the battery drains down under 52V quite quickly. Then again, there's been one user here who reported that his SO6 controller from BMSbattery gave him problems at 48V after a while. It's too bad that BMSBattery doesn't sell the S06S as dual voltage. Just a switch to a slightly more expensive (probably a few pennies) part.

In any case, the controllers used by ebikeling have 63V capacitors. The LCD version will run multivoltage. The 36V 810LED display will work on 48V, but its battery gauge will show "full" forever. However, it will still set the right PAS level. I don't know about LVC. I didn't run it long enough. You can buy a 48V version of that display from ebikeling as a separate item for $25 off his website.

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