Toms first ebike....

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icekreme1002   1 W

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Toms first ebike....

Post by icekreme1002 » Sep 18 2011 7:12am

Well it took me just over a year, but i finally have a working ebike.
I decided to start from scratch so i could learn all i needed to about bike parts and servicing at the same time.

I could NOT have done this without the forum. I test rode a 250w bike over a year ago now, got home and went straight to the net cause i new it could be soo much more fun.

Anyways before i go further i would like to say a huge thanks to Hyena and Lyen who both helped a lot with all my newb questions. Also a big thanks to endless-sphere and all the EV obsessed members for helping guys like me to find all the info i would need to do this :-)

Sooo the bike...
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(Hub motor now has much bigger cooling holes)

Charger V1
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Charger v2, nearly finished
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Battery medics have been boosted by adding resistors and are fan cooled. The fans can either be powered by the 22v packs, or via a 12v supply in the charger box. The cell-logs are for HVC. (thanks to Gary Goodrum, fletcher and all those who contributed to the meanwell posts)

battery box on arrive from a mate who built it for me.
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battery box power etc hidden by green shopping bag plastic and velcro. hahah (gotta fix that up a little)
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Charge and balance...
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Inside the box.... needs a bit of a tidy up also.
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Batteries were getting far to hot in the box so i installed a window
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Docs torque arms
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Some other fun bits you should prolly have when cruising at 70km/h on a pushy. :-D
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So its a hs3540 on a lyen 18fet running off 18s2p of zippy's. Not loving the motor. Its great if you want to ride at 60km/h everywhere and never have to start stop. I'm currently at 45/110 amps which is about the best middle ground i can find and gets me to about 65km/h. 50+ amps just heated far to fast around here especially on the 28c humid days we have been having lately.
If i lower the amps much more it also seems to heat faster. Took me a while to wrap my head around that but i guess cause it spending longer on the hills and longer to accelerate it spends more time in inefficient rpms.

I think the HT version would have been far more suited to my riding. If im not to late hopefully i will be in on the 5404 buy which should keep me more than happy off road.

Just want to say to any newbs who may be reading this. 1 thing that prolly isnt mentioned on here as much as newbs need to hear it, is the importance of still pedaling especially with a quick heater like this.
helping the motor at low speed and up the hills can make a huge difference to the watts you are using and helps the battery last just that little longer.
My 1st few rides this was an e-motorbike and overheated very very quickly with sudden newb throttle bursts and no pedaling. Now that i have learnt to accelerate smoothly (except when showing off) and to pedal, I can get through a 20km trip without have to pull over to cool off. lol.

Anyways, enjoy the pics! Id love to hear criticisms, suggestions, WTF are you thinkings etc etc etc as this is the first time i have built or even owned better than a kmart bike, let alone built an EV lol.
1st build - Norco Hardtail, 18s Lipo, HS3540, Lyen 18fet 45/120amps
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=32041

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nicobie   1 GW

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Re: Toms first ebike....

Post by nicobie » Sep 18 2011 1:09pm

You did a nice job. I like the components you chose too. Your battery box turned out nice. Nice clean build.

I agree about the HT motors being better for most of us. I had a heck of a time deciding on which one to get. But after comparing them side by side with Justin's simulator it became clear to me that at voltages 18s and up the HT would serve my purpose better. At 22s in a 24" wheel mine will go 39 mph and gets there fast.
Take it easy... but take it. (Woody Guthrie)

my eTownie build thread: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=23701
Magazine article https://www.electricbike.com/nicks-etownie/

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StudEbiker   1 MW

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Re: Toms first ebike....

Post by StudEbiker » Sep 18 2011 2:51pm

Nice looking bike, especially for a first build! Thumbs up! 8)

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ohzee   1 MW

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Re: Toms first ebike....

Post by ohzee » Sep 18 2011 3:06pm

nice looking bike - you seem to have soaked up quite a bit of knowledge from this board.

I know I am in the process of doing the same.

icekreme1002   1 W

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Re: Toms first ebike....

Post by icekreme1002 » Sep 19 2011 6:59am

Thanks guys :-)

Choosing the components was a serious mission, but i think the hours of research that went into it turned out alright.
The only thing I really cheaped out on was the drive train. And now I know more I think a stronger shock would have been a good choice, but so far the reba is nice. Got it 2nd hand pretty cheap and serviced it myself so not complaining.

Yeah this forum is awesome ohzee. So much great info and helpful people, very easy to loose a lot of time in here...
1st build - Norco Hardtail, 18s Lipo, HS3540, Lyen 18fet 45/120amps
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=32041

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sn0wchyld   1 MW

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Re: Toms first ebike....

Post by sn0wchyld » Sep 19 2011 8:27am

icekreme1002 wrote:... So much great info and helpful people, very easy to loose a lot of time in here...

very nice clean build mate. and being a first build just makes the achievement that much more impressive. Love the tidy battery case, though how does it go having the balance and charging connectors exposed like that? worried about water?


I gotta ask mate how are you using the cell logs as hvcs? do they have an allarm for high V or something?
And as to beefing up the BM's, I'd love to know how you did it! im switching to bulk charging soon for most charges be great to have some super powered bms for balancing too!

and that body armor... lol... seems popular amongst us aussies, so far Ive seen hyena you and myself all sporting it!

icekreme1002   1 W

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Re: Toms first ebike....

Post by icekreme1002 » Sep 19 2011 9:15am

Thanks snowychyld :-)

I have one of Gary Gooddrums charge control boards for the meanwells which has a hvc function.
Gary helped me with the circuit on the cell log section here...
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 14&t=29458

Fletcher helped a little with the fans for the medics part of the circuit here...
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 75#p452475

As for how I did it, Niel P, Bigmoose, Arlo1 and the rest of the thread contributes helped here...
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 02#p424555
Few pics of what I did there too. Let me know if you wanna know more :-)

And YES i am worried about water. Im waiting on another db-25 plug so i can make a protector and will do the xt-60 plug at the same time.

Yeah i saw Hyena in it, which aided my desicion when i saw it on ebay.. hahaha.
Unfortunately 2 of the plastic bits that hold the straps have already broken on mine, so will have to see about replacing them with something better.

Edit: I should also add, have no idea how reliable the medics are going to be now... I made them easily replaceable so no biggy if something goes wrong. Already lost 1 when i had the fan circuit wrong :-(
So far to test, i ran em through 10ah packs from 4.2v down to 3.7v 4 times each and have used them to balance my pack a few times since that. As bigmoose explains there is a limit, somewhere..... hahaha
1st build - Norco Hardtail, 18s Lipo, HS3540, Lyen 18fet 45/120amps
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=32041

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sn0wchyld   1 MW

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Re: Toms first ebike....

Post by sn0wchyld » Sep 19 2011 9:30am

icekreme1002 wrote:Thanks snowychyld :-)
...
Edit: I should also add, have no idea how reliable the medics are going to be now... I made them easily replaceable so no biggy if something goes wrong. Already lost 1 when i had the fan circuit wrong :-(
So far to test, i ran em through 10ah packs from 4.2v down to 3.7v 4 times each and have used them to balance my pack a few times since that. As bigmoose explains there is a limit, somewhere..... hahaha
sweet mate thanks for the links, will have to look through later this week.

yea you can pick medics up on ebay for less than 18$ delivered, so its hardly painful to replace. How long did it take to pull the voltage down that far? id be happy if they can dissipate 25watts each really, given I can always balance charge with the celpro if they get to far out of whack.

I havent even worn my knock-off armour yet, it was too small, so I gotta try and mod it first. Chances are Ill stuff it compleatly but hey, thats life eh?

icekreme1002   1 W

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Re: Toms first ebike....

Post by icekreme1002 » Sep 19 2011 9:37am

yeah I cant seem to find my results on it all but ill test again over the next few days and report back.
My replacement will hopefully be here this week so might even wait for that and do a comparison v stock again. :-)
1st build - Norco Hardtail, 18s Lipo, HS3540, Lyen 18fet 45/120amps
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=32041

mike662   10 W

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Re: Toms first ebike....

Post by mike662 » Sep 19 2011 1:17pm

Nice build! I'm looking into getting some safety gear like yours before I upgrade my bike to 20s lipos. How bulky is all that armor? Is it easy enough to fit under a jacket or a hoodie?

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sn0wchyld   1 MW

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Re: Toms first ebike....

Post by sn0wchyld » Sep 21 2011 9:00am

mike662 wrote:Nice build! I'm looking into getting some safety gear like yours before I upgrade my bike to 20s lipos. How bulky is all that armor? Is it easy enough to fit under a jacket or a hoodie?
as long as its fairly baggy yea, should be ok.

hey tom I meant to ask do you see much difference with heat after drilling the holes?

icekreme1002   1 W

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Re: Toms first ebike....

Post by icekreme1002 » Sep 21 2011 10:51am

Bloody uni assignments, needed a min away so thought id come write :-)

Hey Mike, yes you can fit it under a jacket, well I can just. So hot right now not sure how im going to wear it when I fix mine. Maybe as a shirt? lol

Cooling holes....
I majorly screwed mine up when I enlarged them. Got one well off center and scrwed the whole symmetry so struggled to get it back by drilling more small holes instead of larger.
I have 16mm holes on the inside on one side,
and 16mm on the inside and 12mm and 18mm holes on the outside on the other side. Almost to embarrassed to photograph it but yes it definitely did help with temperature. I'm not so sure it actually lowers temp, but rather helps it cool down faster when you ease off to cruise mode after a big hill etc. This hs3540 is a real heater for me. 3500w is about as far as i can get it unless i just plain don't want to enjoy it. at 3500w im still seeing 100c in the wingdings and getting the varnish smell so may back it off just a little more. Gonna try a 24" 1st though.

But... I dont actually have a temp monitor like some. Ive been pulling over after long rides, cross county stints, and 3500w hill climbs to check temps with a hobbyking temp gun so not sure if it is getting higher. But ive been doing my best to check when ive been giving it its worst.

Ahhh why is it so much easier to write an essay here than for uni :-/ hahaha

Anyways my last battery medic got here today so i should be able to do a comparison between them over the weekend :-)




Ebike story... went for a 20km ride today to the Brisbane river bridge down the centenary hwy for those that know it. Theres a nice little track along the side of the river I was cruising down, taking wide girths at about 40km/h over the grass around people walking there dogs etc.
Flying along happily i see the grass all of a sudden drop away and a concrete drainage ditch appear a few feet down. Thankfully my brakes work well and stopped me just as my front wheel went over the lip of the ditch and an escaped just pumping with adrenalin and thinking how smashed i would have gotten on a nose dive in. Few nods of relieve from the old couple walking close by to. I realised after her hand on her mouth when i overtook was probably more about the ditch coming up than just seeing an ebike.
Got me thinking about a story i remember reading here with some1 on a e-recumbent going into one of those ditches on a group ride and getting pretty badly hurt.

Be careful people at high speeds on grass, drainage ditches do not appear until the very last second!!!!
1st build - Norco Hardtail, 18s Lipo, HS3540, Lyen 18fet 45/120amps
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=32041

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sn0wchyld   1 MW

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Re: Toms first ebike....

Post by sn0wchyld » Sep 21 2011 7:28pm

lol, sounds like me mate. What are you studying?

and good call about taking care tearing across grassy parks, I recently was tearing down a grassy hill at about 40+, and dint see a large green sign about 4m across and 1.5m high ahead of me until the last second... I was riding into the sun, and the colour of the sign matched near perfectly with the grass around it!! I was lucky like you that I had good breaks, and managed to slow enough to miss it, still, scary to think if I'd seen it 2 seconds later I would have slammed into it at at least 40 clicks!! And this is one of those bulky ass timber signs, the ones that a car probably wouldn't get through easily! :oops: 'Twas a damn good wake up call for me...

icekreme1002 wrote:Bloody uni assignments, needed a min away so thought id come write :-)
...
Ebike story... ..
Be careful people at high speeds on grass, drainage ditches do not appear until the very last second!!!!

icekreme1002   1 W

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Re: Toms first ebike....

Post by icekreme1002 » Sep 23 2011 1:56pm

Well test one of stock battery medics vs mod medics = FAIL :(
Somehow the stock overheated, dunno if its a bad one or what, its never happened to me before, but i came to check after an hour and 14mins and stock was almost to hot to touch with a slight smell of burnt plastic and every digit on the screen lit and reading all 8s.

I turned it off and put a fan on it to cool down and it eventually came back to life.

I guess ill try again tomorrow but I assume it will just happen again. I can do it with a fan on the stock one too, but i have a feeling cooling the stock resistors might make it more efficient? So probably wont be a true comparison.

Anyway keeping in mind the stock was to hot to touch when i checked, I assume it was still discharging. So don't go by this or anything, but after 1h14mins stock cells were 4.07 with 1 on 4.08, and mod cells were on 4.03 with 1 on 4.04.

Ill try again soon :-)

In other news i had a play around with the throttle settings on Justin's simulator and seem to have found a much more fun setting on the hs35.
Now running it at 60/150 amps, 3 sec block which gives much better acceleration and peaks on the CA of 102amps.
Riding at more than 60km/h is pretty suicidal around here and theres not many places I can go faster, so I tuned the speed settings.
Speed 3 is now only 80%.
So although im now getting near 4000w bursts on acceleration, 60km on flat in speed 3 is only drawing 1500-1800w and low 2000's up hills instead of the constant 3000w i was seeing when i had it at 100% and it was always trying to climb higher. (yes im still learning throttle control ;-))
Anyways the motor stays at a similar heat to before but i now have more acceleration, and less top speed. yay! Hope that all made technical sense to. hahaha.
I really need a 4th setting on the speed switch, so i can have 1 legal mode, 2 offroad mode, 3 60km/h mode, and 4 get the armor out mode... Bloody legal mode stuffs it all up, but a lot of cops around here so i think i should keep it.

Ohh and im studying environmental management. Bit lost in a forum full of engineers and those that should be... haha.
Lol about the sign snow, the parks and roads we know become a whole differnt play ground when the bikes going 60. :lol:
1st build - Norco Hardtail, 18s Lipo, HS3540, Lyen 18fet 45/120amps
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=32041

icekreme1002   1 W

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Re: Toms first ebike....

Post by icekreme1002 » Oct 02 2011 11:38pm

Ran the tests stock vs mod medics again here are the results....

To start I balanced all the packs together on 1 medic to 4.06 4.06 4.06 4.05 4.05 4.05
Also results are taken from the same medic so they are more comparable.
Each pack was 6s2p of 6s zippy 5000mah cells.

After 1 hour 40mins
Stock 4.00 4.01 4.00 3.99 4.00 3.99
Mod 3.96 3.97 3.96 3.95 3.95 3.95

Another 1 hour 40mins
Stock 3.96 3.97 3.96 3.95 3.95 3.95
Mod 3.89 3.90 3.89 3.88 3.88 3.87

The mods with the fans still stay much cooler than the stock so I may even try push em a bit further in future.

I need help! I'm having a hell of a time keeping my chain on anytime i leave the road, and due to the battery box have very little room for any kind of guide or bash guard.

I'm currently using 48t-11t and this is about perfect for this motor. But most chain tensioners only support up to about 40t. I could maybe get away with slightly smaller chain ring, but i really love the 48t.

As you can see, room is tight! And no room to attach anything to the seat post either...

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In other news I think i did the nuts to tight when 1st installed docs torque arms and pushed away all the dp-420. The drive side arm fell straight off when i removed the wheel to change tire yesterday. I redid it with way more glue this time and even if it comes loose its installed so it wont really matter unless the nut loosens too. But the nords should take care of that.

Some more photos,
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That should keep them on there :)

Charger finally finished. Love it!
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1st build - Norco Hardtail, 18s Lipo, HS3540, Lyen 18fet 45/120amps
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=32041

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