Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

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Hayds13   10 mW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by Hayds13 » May 03 2018 2:03am

Just upgrade to CA 3.1 and getting the same "settings changed" issue as Dumsterdave. I’ve submitted a bug report to Grin.

Rob92   10 µW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by Rob92 » May 03 2018 4:16am

FETguy wrote:
Apr 30 2018 4:20pm
Rob92 wrote:
Apr 30 2018 11:51am

Thanks for the tip. I just applied 12v to the LED +/- pin and no splash screen now, only some flickering of the screen.
Does this mean that below parts wont fix my CA, or is there still hope?
We need to clarify how to do this test. The LED backlight for the display is connected between LED+ and LED- and has a normal operating voltage of about 3 Volts, so if you applied 12 VDC between those pins, it would just make the LED light up, and maybe damage it. Justin's original troubleshooting suggestion is:

"To see if the rest of the CA is fine, just apply 12V power directly to where the output of the mosfet would normally be (or to the LED+ pin on the LCD header). If all is well it should power up to the splash screen fine..."

Note that he means that you should apply 12 VDC between LED+ and ground (black wire, or any pad on the board marked "G"). +12 VDC goes to LED+ and -12VDC goes to ground. Please try that, and let us know.

I measured Z1 and this diode is still working. Good. Let's see if the rest works.

Is it still usefull to order the items for repair? Shipping from US to EU is 18 dollars and probably takes a while I guess. Or anyone knows a good site within the EU?

You can convert the DigiKey part numbers above to manufacturer's part numbers by dropping the "CT-ND". Then you can search for them at European distributors. Hopefully you will only need the MOSFET.
Thanks for the clarification but I still get the same behaviour when applying 12v to the GND and LED+ pin. A Flickering screen. Is it worth trying to replace the parts?

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teklektik   10 GW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » May 03 2018 12:32pm

Hayds13 wrote:
May 03 2018 2:03am
Just upgrade to CA 3.1 and getting the same "settings changed" issue as Dumsterdave. I’ve submitted a bug report to Grin.
Yep - We're on it.
Thanks for the bug report and post!
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Dumsterdave   100 W

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by Dumsterdave » May 03 2018 3:52pm

teklektik wrote:
May 03 2018 12:32pm
Hayds13 wrote:
May 03 2018 2:03am
Just upgrade to CA 3.1 and getting the same "settings changed" issue as Dumsterdave. I’ve submitted a bug report to Grin.
Yep - We're on it.
Thanks for the bug report and post!
I haven't emailed grin yet, but i rode the bike today and everything seems to work until I try to enable the 3 speed switch. That is when my CA resets :( I guess I can run it without the switch until I get this thing figured out. I'll get on the email now :)

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by madnut » May 03 2018 4:01pm

Dumsterdave wrote:
May 03 2018 3:52pm
teklektik wrote:
May 03 2018 12:32pm
Hayds13 wrote:
May 03 2018 2:03am
Just upgrade to CA 3.1 and getting the same "settings changed" issue as Dumsterdave. I’ve submitted a bug report to Grin.
Yep - We're on it.
Thanks for the bug report and post!
I haven't emailed grin yet, but i rode the bike today and everything seems to work until I try to enable the 3 speed switch. That is when my CA resets :( I guess I can run it without the switch until I get this thing figured out. I'll get on the email now :)
What type of switch is it? is it grin or a generic 3 way switch. I have a generic and i had to rewire the pins and add resistors. I also have a Grin one, that works out of the box.

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by Dumsterdave » May 03 2018 4:04pm

madnut wrote:
May 03 2018 4:01pm
Dumsterdave wrote:
May 03 2018 3:52pm
teklektik wrote:
May 03 2018 12:32pm
Hayds13 wrote:
May 03 2018 2:03am
Just upgrade to CA 3.1 and getting the same "settings changed" issue as Dumsterdave. I’ve submitted a bug report to Grin.
Yep - We're on it.
Thanks for the bug report and post!
I haven't emailed grin yet, but i rode the bike today and everything seems to work until I try to enable the 3 speed switch. That is when my CA resets :( I guess I can run it without the switch until I get this thing figured out. I'll get on the email now :)
What type of switch is it? is it grin or a generic 3 way switch. I have a generic and i had to rewire the pins and add resistors. I also have a Grin one, that works out of the box.
Generic three way from em3ev. It's been working fine for the past 2 years until I've updated the firmware to 3.1

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by Warekiwi » May 03 2018 4:11pm

As I've mentioned elsewhere I have a Smart Pie/Grinfineon 25A/ CA 3 setup on my QuattroVelo (velomobile) . Inputs to the CA3 are thumb throttle, wheel mounted speedometer, and cadence sensor(currently disabled on CA) The throttle is set to pass-thru with limitations of 300W,20A, and 25mph. Since updating the firmware everything generally works very well. Occasionally when pedalling or coasting well above the 25mph cutoff (easily achieved on a velomobiel when not climbing a hill!)-IF I thumb the throttle the motor will sometimes cut back in- seemingly ignoring the speed and power settings. This isn't a major problem when I'm the rider but could be a worry if I let someone else have a ride! I've checked the speedometer- it's only a single magnet but is always within a close tolerance of the GPS and traditional Cateye running on a separate wheel. Any suggestions as to what could cause this strange behaviour?

One other query-- there is an extra data page showing on the CA3 (3.1 firmware) see photo-- what is this showing? (I don't have a torque sensor and have not activated it in the settings)
2018-05-03 15.45.58.jpg
Mystery screen

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teklektik   10 GW

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3.1 Temperature Status Screen Overview

Post by teklektik » May 03 2018 7:14pm

Warekiwi wrote:
May 03 2018 4:11pm
IF I thumb the throttle the motor will sometimes cut back in- seemingly ignoring the speed and power settings.
That's kind of ungood...
Does the power briefly burst on then cut out or does the throttle continue to work?
Warekiwi wrote:
May 03 2018 4:11pm
One other query-- there is an extra data page showing on the CA3 (3.1 firmware) see photo-- what is this showing? (I don't have a torque sensor and have not activated it in the settings)
This is a Temp Status screen that is unrelated to PAS torque. When you get into temperature limiting the thermometer icon appears and the third value alternates as shown below:

tempStatusScreen.png
tempStatusScreen.png (228.35 KiB) Viewed 1170 times

The only minor gotcha here is that the average temperature and time over the temp threshold are not saved and are reset when you power off. Since these values are more or less useful only while riding, this saved some EEPROM space.
Last edited by teklektik on May 04 2018 10:12am, edited 1 time in total.
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teklektik   10 GW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » May 03 2018 7:23pm

Dumsterdave wrote:
May 03 2018 3:52pm
I haven't emailed grin yet, but i rode the bike today and everything seems to work until I try to enable the 3 speed switch. That is when my CA resets :( I guess I can run it without the switch until I get this thing figured out. I'll get on the email now :)
Good. It's very valuable to be able to get a CA setup file read from your CA before you cycle the power and the 'Setup Changed' message appears so we can try to reproduce this issue. So far we cannot do so.... You could also post the file here or PM me with it. Thanks for the assist!
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FETguy   1 mW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by FETguy » May 03 2018 7:46pm

Rob92 wrote:
May 03 2018 4:16am


Thanks for the clarification but I still get the same behaviour when applying 12v to the GND and LED+ pin. A Flickering screen. Is it worth trying to replace the parts?
Hard to say what is going on, but it sounds like more damage has been done since you posted video of the splash screen coming on. It may be that the 5 Volt regulator is blown now, and maybe even the microcontroller. The micro is about the only part you can't fix yourself. If you can see signs of the micro working (splash screen), that's a good sign. You will have to decide whether it is "worth it" to keep working on this one. I like to fix everything, but sometimes you have to throw in the towel.

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by redline2097 » May 04 2018 2:36am

I am just figuring out how bright led lights I can output from cycle analyst DC output jack. I will use step down converter between cycle analyst and lights. What is the max power output which can be taken out from DC Jack using 20s lipos?

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by Warekiwi » May 04 2018 3:04am

teklektik wrote:
May 03 2018 7:14pm
Warekiwi wrote:
May 03 2018 4:11pm
IF I thumb the throttle the motor will sometimes cut back in- seemingly ignoring the speed and power settings.
That's kind of ungood...
Does the power briefly burst on then cut out or does the throttle continue to work?
I'll monitor the throttle behaviour over the next few days and try and be more detailed-- from earlier observations the throttle continued to work and ws quite controllable- it just ignored the preset limitations! Thanks for the update on the "T" page-- I couldn't find any reference to that anywhere.

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teklektik   10 GW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » May 04 2018 7:10am

Warekiwi wrote:
May 04 2018 3:04am
I'll monitor the throttle behaviour over the next few days and try and be more detailed
Thanks. Appreciated!
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » May 04 2018 7:16am

redline2097 wrote:
May 04 2018 2:36am
What is the max power output which can be taken out from DC Jack using 20s lipos?
From the Guide:

CA3AccessoryPower.png
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Warekiwi   10 mW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by Warekiwi » May 04 2018 9:15am

[/quote]
I'll monitor the throttle behaviour over the next few days and try and be more detailed-- from earlier observations the throttle continued to work and ws quite controllable- it just ignored the preset limitations! Thanks for the update on the "T" page-- I couldn't find any reference to that anywhere.
[/quote]
I tried it again today on a fast descent-- as the speed approached the preset limit of 25mph the power reduced to zero as expected. Unfortunately as the speed reached about 35mph (whilst holding throttle fully ON) suddenly the power came back on at above the preset 300W (observed at around 450W!) My courage expired at around 45 mph and on releasing the throttle the assistance returned to zero. Once the speed dropped back below 25mph everything reverted to normal . Weird??

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teklektik   10 GW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » May 04 2018 9:48am

Warekiwi wrote:
May 04 2018 9:15am
...as the speed reached about 35mph (whilst holding throttle fully ON) suddenly the power came back on at above the preset 300W (observed at around 450W!)...
Once the speed dropped back below 25mph everything reverted to normal .
Weird??
Partly. The speeds are a little off, but this sounds like it relates to a speedometer issue that has been addressed in the coming 3.11 release where speeds are halved above a certain speed. This would explain the release of speed limiting as the apparent speed dropped below the limit. The power thing is odd though. I can PM you an experimental in-house alpha test version of 3.11 that addresses the speed problem for you to test and report if it remedies your issue in whole or in part. If not, we will will need to pursue your report as a separate bug. This firmware is not fully vetted for beta release, but post up if you want to give it a whirl.
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batboby   1 µW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by batboby » May 04 2018 10:12am

Hi all!
I am from Bulgaria and two weeks ago I bought a CA V3 - DP. I wired it to controller using this tutorial: http://www.ebikeschool.com/add-cycle-an ... ontroller/
But after a few days I realized that I have only possibility to read the CA, but could not make any limits or control throttle behavior. So I unplugged the throttle from controller and plugged it into the throttle cable of the CA. Then starts the problem. When the throttle was connected to controller the speed on the bench was 60km/h, after I connected it to CA I can`t get more then 48km/h. I red almost everything about settings of THRO IN and OUT, but couldn't make it out. The last post that I red I decided that this will solve my issue but nothing changes. I have no idea what to do next. My parameters are very close to this in the post :
teklektik wrote:
May 01 2018 9:18am
PRW wrote:
May 01 2018 12:19am
When I use the throttle (you can here the sound) - power starts at about 1.50, and cuts at about 3.95, i.e. cuts out before WOT.

at Setup Throttle In, Zero throttle is 0.85, WOT is 4.28
so, I set Thrl->MinInput to 1.00, and Thrl->MaxInput to 4.13

Thrl->FaultVolt is set at 4.55
ThO->MinOut is set to 1.00, and ThrO->MaxOut is set at 4.13.
I would say that you are confusing the operator throttle output voltage range with the controller input voltage range. The purpose of these CA settings is to map the BLUE range above into the RED range above. The issue appears to be the GREEN settings which you have set to reflect the operator throttle range (BLUE) instead of the controller range (RED).

Here we want set the ThrO range very slightly larger than what the controller wants to see to operate the motor ZERO to WOT. Based on what you have written about the OUT voltages (RED), I would recommend:

ThrO->MinOut = 1.45
ThrO->MaxOut = 4.00


Here the idea is that (in PassThru mode):
  • when the CA sees 'Throttle ZERO' it will send output 'Controller ZERO'
    Thrl->MinInput = 1.00 ===> ThrO->MinOut = 1.45
    and
  • when the CA sees 'Throttle WOT' it will send output 'Controller WOT'
    Thrl->MaxInput = 4.13 ===> ThrO->MaxOut = 4.00
By doing this the CA re-maps the operator throttle range to the controller range to minimize throttle dead zones.

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teklektik   10 GW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » May 04 2018 11:22am

The method called out in Micah's articla is correct, so there should be no hardware issues if you followed it accurately.

So - we are left with some sort of configuration issue. Generally, the CA3 will run right out of the box although perhaps a bit suboptimally. Since you are switching from CA2 legacy mode to CA3 normal mode, you should start by re-flashing fresh defaults and start your tuning procedure again so all of your past experiments and tinkering are gone. This is a biggie so please don't skip this step.

Then download and follow the setup instructions in the Unofficial Guide. This was written for the older 3.0 firmware and some settings names have changed in the setup section, but it should get you riding if you follow all the steps carefully from the beginning.

It is important to take your time and not skip around or turn on advanced features. Then enable and tune one advanced feature at a time. This sounds boring, but many of the CA settings can interact in unexpected ways and it can be extremely difficult to diagnose problems if you just turn on everything at once. Most of the Guide deals with alternative hardware or wiring configurations, so don't be put off by the size - most of it save a few pages is ignored for any particular build.
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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by tomjasz » May 05 2018 2:01pm

Dumsterdave wrote:
May 03 2018 4:04pm


Generic three way from em3ev. It's been working fine for the past 2 years until I've updated the firmware to 3.1
When I purchased my Mac I was told the 3 way from EM3ev was not workable with my CA3. Looking for the note...
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by batboby » May 05 2018 2:48pm

How to
teklektik wrote:
May 04 2018 11:22am
re-flashing fresh defaults

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teklektik   10 GW

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by teklektik » May 05 2018 3:40pm

SU_1-54_resetDefaults.png
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chilltrout   10 W

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by chilltrout » May 06 2018 1:10am

Hmm So I just did something really stupid!
I was riding last night and bumped the dc plug and disconnected my headlight from the CA.
Bumbling around in the dark I must of shorted the in v+ ring of the dc plug onto the outer gnd ring of the programming jack.

I'm getting a similar problem to Rob92

If the headlight is disconnected from the dc jack then its like the CA trys to boot, I can see the boot screen but then all the text goes and the screen dims a bit. Sometimes it will loop this and occasionally display some symbols

Image



If I plug the headlight in then no text and the screen flickers

Tested D1/2/3/4 and they seem to be fine any thing else I should look at?

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by chilltrout » May 06 2018 1:50am

Hmm so more tests

This is with 12v between LCD+ and gnd

Image

And this is with the 12v + battery voltage (which is around 72v)

Image

The ~59.4v the screen is displaying seems like my batteries voltage (minus) 12v?

So I'm guessing something in the regulator circuit is dead, But I'm getting 150kOhm across Q1 and around 0.7v on z1 on a diode test.
I take it the 5v reg still works as the mcu is coming on so bit so Im stumped

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by madnut » May 06 2018 10:52am

chilltrout wrote:
May 06 2018 1:50am
The ~59.4v the screen is displaying seems like my batteries voltage (minus) 12v?

So I'm guessing something in the regulator circuit is dead, But I'm getting 150kOhm across Q1 and around 0.7v on z1 on a diode test.
I take it the 5v reg still works as the mcu is coming on so bit so Im stumped
Low V with 12V is expected, when you do 12+ and grd check if any 5v of the pinouts are working.

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Re: Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Post by FETguy » May 06 2018 11:29am

chilltrout wrote:
May 06 2018 1:50am
Hmm so more tests

The ~59.4v the screen is displaying seems like my batteries voltage (minus) 12v?

So I'm guessing something in the regulator circuit is dead, But I'm getting 150kOhm across Q1 and around 0.7v on z1 on a diode test.
I take it the 5v reg still works as the mcu is coming on so bit so Im stumped
Well, that's some good troubleshooting. The display reading B+ minus 12V is an especially good clue. I suspect that your connector short blew out a board trace or via among the the grounds, so now "ground" is not all at the same voltage. Try measuring resistance among the various "G" pads (disconnect all the cables first to avoid sneak paths and confusion), and any other ground points you can identify, like negative of the big yellow tantalum capacitor and the anode of Z1. Look carefully for a blown trace, although it may be on the back of the board. If so, you will need to separate the board from the LCD display to find it and fix it. Or maybe not: if you can really localize it with ohmmeter tests, you could add a jumper on the top of the board.

Good luck! As always, please let us know how it goes.

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