Q100 and Q128 with 0.35mm laminations

General Discussion about electric bicycles.
Jasonv8z   1 W

1 W
Posts: 59
Joined: Aug 08 2010 5:52pm
Location: San Francisco, CA

Re: Q100 and Q128 with 0.35mm laminations

Post by Jasonv8z » Aug 23 2015 10:32am

neptronix wrote:580 watts for 30mph is maybe what you see when you're going downhill a bit.. that's more of the type of wattage figure you'd see for 25mph btw.

10w doesn't seem like much. I bet that the losses amplify with wattage applied? I'm no motor design expert though..
Good point. I can maintain around 30mph if I pedal, but I must be adding a few hundred watts. Without pedaling, my bike does about 27 mph, so 580w input is probably a bit on the low side, or I'm just really aerodynamic. I just went off my S06S LCD display to ballpark a number.

The 10 watt savings I estimated was at 200 RPM or around 16mph. The loss data I posted is incomplete for 600hz/30mph above 1.3T, but I believe losses are squared with frequency, meaning closer to 40 watt savings by 32 mph if you are pushing the steel to saturation. These are rough estimates, so take them with a grain of salt.

User avatar
Ykick   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 5558
Joined: Nov 26 2009 6:10pm
Location: San Diego, California

Re: Q100 and Q128 with 0.35mm laminations

Post by Ykick » Aug 23 2015 10:44am

neptronix wrote:Yeah, that's about right for a geared hub that can handle the power.
on my 90.5% peak efficient DD, i see just around 500W for 25mph.

A clutchless geared motor is gonna have some pretty crazy drag with the power off ( just spin your geared motor backwards and you'll see what i mean, way worse than a DD ) .. I think that such a motor only makes sense if it's capable of 1000W continuous or more.
Crazy drag compared to a fully OFF DD for sure.

However, when our clutches act up, sometimes the only way we really notice is that the CA powers-up before connecting the battery when pushing the bike around. It’s not nearly as obvious as I originally suspected.

btw, to the OP, most of us can only contribute 75-150W through the pedals without standing up and driving hard.
Last edited by Ykick on Aug 23 2015 10:46am, edited 1 time in total.
Talent must not be wasted.... Those who have talent must hug it, embrace it, nurture it and share it lest it be taken away from you as fast as it was loaned to you.

- Frank Sinatra

Jasonv8z   1 W

1 W
Posts: 59
Joined: Aug 08 2010 5:52pm
Location: San Francisco, CA

Re: Q100 and Q128 with 0.35mm laminations

Post by Jasonv8z » Aug 23 2015 10:45am

Sunder wrote:Sorry to be a complete noob here, but could someone link me to a reasonably simple paper on what effect changing the laminations have? I tried googling the term, but a lot of noise came back - such as the enamel lamination on the copper wire...

I've always been interested in squeezing more out of these mini motors.
This page has a brief explanation.

http://www.emetor.org/glossary/lamination-thickness/

The 0.5mm currently used is best suited for low speed motors. Things get ugly when you try to push a 15mph design to 30mph and ask it to handle several times the original design power. The motor is switching like an RC motor at those speeds, and all good RC motors at 0.2mm laminations.

User avatar
gogo   10 MW

10 MW
Posts: 2446
Joined: Mar 17 2008 2:20pm
Location: Iowa USA

Re: Q100 and Q128 with 0.35mm laminations

Post by gogo » Aug 23 2015 11:45am

neptronix wrote:

A clutchless geared motor is gonna have some pretty crazy drag with the power off ( just spin your geared motor backwards and you'll see what i mean, way worse than a DD ) .. I think that such a motor only makes sense if it's capable of 1000W continuous or more.
Remember, a geared motor has a similar or smaller amount of 'magnetic actions' as a non-geared hubmotor. Its my observation that my geared no-clutch hubmotor behaves similarly to a larger DD hubmotor. It just makes some extra gear noise and gets hot more quickly. It could be that the clutch prevents some heat at the expense of complexity.

My Currie folder should really never go much beyond its stock 15 MPH, so maybe it doesn't need protection from heat as much as it needs a speed cap enforced through regen.
"A conclusion is the place where you got tired of thinking." -Steven Wright

User avatar
motomech   1 GW

1 GW
Posts: 3324
Joined: Sep 11 2010 12:21am
Location: Punta Cana Baja Mexico

Re: Q100 and Q128 with 0.35mm laminations

Post by motomech » Aug 23 2015 1:27pm

Jasonv8z wrote:I've been working with the factory that makes Q100 and 128 motors. I had them make (at my cost) Q100H prototypes with 0.35mm laminations, as well as 0.5mm Q128 cassette motors with 135mm spacing, all painted black inside and out for heat dissipation.

The 0.35mm lamination Q100H resulted in about 20% improvement in efficiency (and likely power handling) over it's 0.5mm counterpart to 84% peak. I am currently running the 330RPM 36V version with 12S using a stock S06S. Top speed no pedaling is about 28mph @ ~580W input because of the S06S current limit. WIth pedaling, top speed is about 34mph. I can also cruise over 30mph all day long without any issues of overheating. I only weigh 150lbs and am a strong biker so take that into consideration.

I haven't tried the 0.5mm Q128H yet, but I'm only expecting modest gains on flat ground over the 0.35mm Q100H based on the dyno information. Looks like significantly more torque however.

I plan on having them make 0.35mm Q128H motors in the future but I could not meet their MOQ this round. I would expect roughly 40% more output over the 0.35mm Q100H based on mass (3kg vs 2.2kg).

I'm in the process of building a dyno, but for now I have attached the test data they gave me.

Image

Pricing for these motors would likely be around $175 for the 100H and $225 for the 128 cassette, shipping from USA. Do you guys have any interest in these motors? What RPM @ 36V and hole configuration (eg 32 or 36H) would you like to see?
Jason, I'm a little confused on which Q-series motors you are planning to offer.
In the pic above, the Cute nest of motors appears to consist of;
1) Q100HL front(L for lamination :roll: )
2) Q100CL
1) Q128CL
and the last motor, which I am unsure of, either a Q128 frt. or a Q128 rear(free wheel).
Are all those motor customized w/ .35"lamimnations and you plan to offer them all.
Or, do you plan to offer only the Q100HL(front?) and the Q128CL mentioned in your text?

Also, you have mentioned to you fitted a Q100HL on your carbon bike for testing. I know you use a rear mount, so was that the free wheel type?
Thanx
Motomech

'03 Rocky Mountain Edge 2WD 260 Q100H frt and Ezee V1 rear 2 Elifebike 20A & 25A 9-FET controllers 12S/10Ah Multistar Lipo rear 4Ah Turnigy frt Luna Cyclops Extra lite Alex 24DM rims, Crazy Bobs run ghetto tubeless. 25 mph. Mean Well HLG-320H-54A
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =3&t=83430
'07 GT Idive 4 4.0, Q100C 201 14S LiPoly elifebike 9-FET 20A controller. 23 MPH.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 4#p1378484

ScooterMan101   1 MW

1 MW
Posts: 1830
Joined: Oct 06 2012 4:45pm
Location: South of San Jose, California.

Re: Q100 and Q128 with 0.35mm laminations

Post by ScooterMan101 » Aug 23 2015 1:52pm

Jasonv8z

I would like you to have 201 , 260 , and 328 RPM models


32 Hole gives us a better choice of Quality Rims .


[Quote/] Do you guys have any interest in these motors? What RPM @ 36V and hole configuration (eg 32 or 36H) would you like to see? [Quote/]
Last edited by ScooterMan101 on Jan 11 2016 3:41am, edited 2 times in total.
My first conversion ... Sold

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=71378&p=1077497&hil ... 1#p1077497

It's 2018 already, lets get some real , improved e-bike / e-velomobile / e-motorcycle designs .

User avatar
motomech   1 GW

1 GW
Posts: 3324
Joined: Sep 11 2010 12:21am
Location: Punta Cana Baja Mexico

Re: Q100 and Q128 with 0.35mm laminations

Post by motomech » Aug 23 2015 3:19pm

I would like it to work with a display that does as much/has as many on the display programmable functions , like adjusting the amp draw different for different days riding style/ride , like a Cycle Analyst 2.3 or 3.0
The custom laminations really don't have anything to do with accessories like displays and their functions.
LIght weight hubs, ( Q100c cst ) 2.2 Kg and under.
All the Q100 motors are already 2.2 Kg or under.
I would like to see shorter axle's ( see the thread : viewtopic.php?f=3&t=72137 )...
Your linked thread never explained why you need a shorter drop-out width. Nobody here has had a problem with the CST's 139 m/m drop-out width.
At any rate, if you take your Q100 apart, you will see they use bolt-on axle half-shafts. These appear to be able to be chucked up in a lathe and any decent machinist could shorten them to any lenght you want.
Motomech

'03 Rocky Mountain Edge 2WD 260 Q100H frt and Ezee V1 rear 2 Elifebike 20A & 25A 9-FET controllers 12S/10Ah Multistar Lipo rear 4Ah Turnigy frt Luna Cyclops Extra lite Alex 24DM rims, Crazy Bobs run ghetto tubeless. 25 mph. Mean Well HLG-320H-54A
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =3&t=83430
'07 GT Idive 4 4.0, Q100C 201 14S LiPoly elifebike 9-FET 20A controller. 23 MPH.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 4#p1378484

Jasonv8z   1 W

1 W
Posts: 59
Joined: Aug 08 2010 5:52pm
Location: San Francisco, CA

Re: Q100 and Q128 with 0.35mm laminations

Post by Jasonv8z » Aug 23 2015 5:14pm

ScooterMan101 wrote:Jasonv8z
I would like 201 RPM models

I would like to see shorter axle's ( see the thread : https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =3&t=72137 )
and even a newer model that will use a 142 mm through axle.

LIght weight hubs, ( Q100c cst ) 2.2 Kg and under.

I would like to see you do this in CST models ! no freewheel threads, just Cassette Hubs ( 7 on up to the new norm in road bikes the 11 speed cassette )

Be able to handle 48-58 volts . ( 13, but most importantly up to 14s packs ! )

32 Hole gives us a better choice in Rims .
I don't mind offering a 201 RPM model if there's enough demand for it. Since the phase wire size is limited, I think a 72V system might be the way to go for high power setups (should put you around 30mph with a 201 RPM motor).

I'm considering offering the motor in a 130mm format with a 5mm spacer as some people might want to install this on a road bike. I'll look into the 142 possibility.

I would love to switch to cassettes, but the cassette ratchet mechanism takes up room in the casing, causing them to use a smaller (weaker motor). I'm probably only going to offer a Q128 CST for now.

You should be able to run the motor at whatever voltage you want.

Do more people want 32 hole hubs? I agree on the rim selection, but 36 spokes is going to result in a stronger rim all things being equal.

ScooterMan101   1 MW

1 MW
Posts: 1830
Joined: Oct 06 2012 4:45pm
Location: South of San Jose, California.

Re: Q100 and Q128 with 0.35mm laminations

Post by ScooterMan101 » Aug 23 2015 5:29pm

Jasonv8z,

I am looking for light weight because where I ride 700c is the way to go.
Last edited by ScooterMan101 on Jan 11 2016 3:48am, edited 5 times in total.
My first conversion ... Sold

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=71378&p=1077497&hil ... 1#p1077497

It's 2018 already, lets get some real , improved e-bike / e-velomobile / e-motorcycle designs .

Jasonv8z   1 W

1 W
Posts: 59
Joined: Aug 08 2010 5:52pm
Location: San Francisco, CA

Re: Q100 and Q128 with 0.35mm laminations

Post by Jasonv8z » Aug 23 2015 5:38pm

motomech wrote: Are all those motor customized w/ .35"lamimnations and you plan to offer them all.
Or, do you plan to offer only the Q100HL(front?) and the Q128CL mentioned in your text?

Also, you have mentioned to you fitted a Q100HL on your carbon bike for testing. I know you use a rear mount, so was that the free wheel type?
Thanx

My plan is to offer high efficiency/output Q100 and Q128 motors in rear drive form. Right now the possibilities are:

1) 340RPM Q100H 0.35mm freewheel version (currently on my carbon bike)

If we can meet minimum order quantities, I'd like to offer:

2) 340 RPM Q128 CST 0.2mm
3) 340 RPM Q100H / Q100 CST 0.2mm

It's easy to offer different windings (e.g. 200 RPM) if there is demand for it. Unfortunately, the efficiency gains mostly come from thinner laminations, and that requires a large setup cost.

I don't plan on offering a front drive motor because 500W through a front fork sounds like a recipe for disaster and lawsuits :D

ScooterMan101   1 MW

1 MW
Posts: 1830
Joined: Oct 06 2012 4:45pm
Location: South of San Jose, California.

Re: Q100 and Q128 with 0.35mm laminations

Post by ScooterMan101 » Aug 23 2015 6:24pm

201, 260 and 328 rpm versions ?
Last edited by ScooterMan101 on Jan 11 2016 3:47am, edited 1 time in total.
My first conversion ... Sold

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=71378&p=1077497&hil ... 1#p1077497

It's 2018 already, lets get some real , improved e-bike / e-velomobile / e-motorcycle designs .

ScooterMan101   1 MW

1 MW
Posts: 1830
Joined: Oct 06 2012 4:45pm
Location: South of San Jose, California.

Re: 0.35mm Q100 and Q128 custom builds

Post by ScooterMan101 » Aug 23 2015 6:33pm

Oh, in regards to the Q128 motor weight,
at close to 9 lbs,
I think it better to offer the Q100H at 4.6 lbs .
Last edited by ScooterMan101 on Jan 11 2016 3:51am, edited 1 time in total.
My first conversion ... Sold

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=71378&p=1077497&hil ... 1#p1077497

It's 2018 already, lets get some real , improved e-bike / e-velomobile / e-motorcycle designs .

Jasonv8z   1 W

1 W
Posts: 59
Joined: Aug 08 2010 5:52pm
Location: San Francisco, CA

Re: Q100 and Q128 with 0.35mm laminations

Post by Jasonv8z » Aug 23 2015 7:38pm

PM Sent.

User avatar
Sunder   100 MW

100 MW
Posts: 2787
Joined: Sep 06 2011 11:24pm
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: Q100 and Q128 with 0.35mm laminations

Post by Sunder » Aug 23 2015 9:31pm

I am interested in the 340rpm Q100cst. Depending on cost, I would be interested in between 1 and 4. Happy to leave a deposit as an expression of interest.

Are you also up for doing further once off customisations? I understand that the most common grade of magnets used in these el cheapos are N38 to N42, but I was hoping for an N52 built one with a custom rewind to get the right kv and and more tightly pack in the copper.

Even if you can't do a personalised one for me, I'd still be interested in the limited run versions you're talking about.

Thanks for doing this. These motors have so much potential in them, but as they are, they're built down to a price, not up to a standard.
eBike: Q100H on 16S with Phaserunner FOC Controller
eMotorscooter: Vectrix VX-1 on 36S
eCar: Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV... Waiting for warranty to expire
eHouse: 5.5kw On-grid solar with battery backup coming soon!

After 5 builds, the best advice I can give, is start with high quality products. I prefer http://www.ebikes.ca

User avatar
Russell   10 MW

10 MW
Posts: 2014
Joined: Nov 22 2008 3:08pm
Location: State of Wisconsin, USA

Re: Q100 and Q128 with 0.35mm laminations

Post by Russell » Aug 23 2015 11:26pm

Jasonv8z wrote:
My plan is to offer high efficiency/output Q100 and Q128 motors in rear drive form. Right now the possibilities are:

1) 340RPM Q100H 0.35mm freewheel version (currently on my carbon bike)

If we can meet minimum order quantities, I'd like to offer:

2) 340 RPM Q128 CST 0.2mm
3) 340 RPM Q100H / Q100 CST 0.2mm

It's easy to offer different windings (e.g. 200 RPM) if there is demand for it. Unfortunately, the efficiency gains mostly come from thinner laminations, and that requires a large setup cost.

I don't plan on offering a front drive motor because 500W through a front fork sounds like a recipe for disaster and lawsuits :D
340 RPM (at 36V) is pretty darn fast for a small geared motor in a large rim. I've used 328 RPM (9 RPM/V) MXUS and Golden Motor(YOUE) mini's and found them to be a bit too fast of a wind for 700C except in flat areas. The 8 RPM/V YOUE 250W geared motor I use now is just about the perfect blend of torque and speed (27MPH on 12S LiPo, 700x40mm tires) but I will probably be purchasing a 260 RPM Q100H FRONT motor for one of my other bikes. It would be great if you would offer that speed (7.2 RPM/V) with the thinner laminations. Oh and I run my front motor at 1000Wp with no torque arms and have for years with no problems.

-R
Jeep Comanche Trekking Bike w/YOUE geared motor, 42 lbs + 15 lb rear trunk bag w/12S 16Ah LiPo battery, tools, etc., 21A controller, 700 x 40C tires. 27 MPH.


My other E-Bikes: Nashbar Steel Flatbar

User avatar
Sunder   100 MW

100 MW
Posts: 2787
Joined: Sep 06 2011 11:24pm
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: Q100 and Q128 with 0.35mm laminations

Post by Sunder » Aug 24 2015 12:40am

Russell wrote: 340 RPM (at 36V) is pretty darn fast for a small geared motor in a large rim.
That's 43km/h at 36v, or 57km/h at 48v, unloaded.

That's not that fast, is it?
eBike: Q100H on 16S with Phaserunner FOC Controller
eMotorscooter: Vectrix VX-1 on 36S
eCar: Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV... Waiting for warranty to expire
eHouse: 5.5kw On-grid solar with battery backup coming soon!

After 5 builds, the best advice I can give, is start with high quality products. I prefer http://www.ebikes.ca

User avatar
Russell   10 MW

10 MW
Posts: 2014
Joined: Nov 22 2008 3:08pm
Location: State of Wisconsin, USA

Re: Q100 and Q128 with 0.35mm laminations

Post by Russell » Aug 24 2015 2:29am

Sunder wrote:
Russell wrote: 340 RPM (at 36V) is pretty darn fast for a small geared motor in a large rim.
That's 43km/h at 36v, or 57km/h at 48v, unloaded.

That's not that fast, is it?
Yes for most applications a Q100 running at 9.4 RPM/V is too fast for a 26 or 700C wheel. The 9.0 RPM/V MXUS and GM mini's I used with 700C wheels had a top speed of about 29 MPH (47 km/h) on 12S LiPo and 22A controller but had little low-end torque for hill-climbing. For a light, fit cyclist riding a relatively lightweight E-bike it can be a fun combination but for most people it will make for a lackluster experience and quite likely an overheated motor. It would be best to keep the winding to under 8 RPM/V for the Q100. The more powerful Q128 would probably be fine with the faster wind.

-R
Jeep Comanche Trekking Bike w/YOUE geared motor, 42 lbs + 15 lb rear trunk bag w/12S 16Ah LiPo battery, tools, etc., 21A controller, 700 x 40C tires. 27 MPH.


My other E-Bikes: Nashbar Steel Flatbar

d8veh   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 5503
Joined: Dec 10 2010 10:45am
Location: Telford

Re: Q100 and Q128 with 0.35mm laminations

Post by d8veh » Aug 24 2015 6:06am

I agree. About 260 rpm at 36v would be better. For those that want more speed, 48v would give 347 rpm. That gives people easy choices because batteries and controllers are readily available.

User avatar
Sunder   100 MW

100 MW
Posts: 2787
Joined: Sep 06 2011 11:24pm
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: Q100 and Q128 with 0.35mm laminations

Post by Sunder » Aug 24 2015 7:37pm

Russell wrote: For a light, fit cyclist riding a relatively lightweight E-bike it can be a fun combination but for most people it will make for a lackluster experience and quite likely an overheated motor. It would be best to keep the winding to under 8 RPM/V for the Q100. The more powerful Q128 would probably be fine with the faster wind.

-R
That explains it. I'm 70kg and fairly fit and riding mostly flat. I've been riding a 328 motor on 12s lipo for quite a few years now. The only issue I had was 10kg backpack and 12kg son on bike and as I just wanted to get home fastest (rain) it was full throttle the whole time. Only motor I've burned out.

This is why I want one thats marginally more efficient though. The speed and torque is about right for me, but the buffer would let me feel like I could abuse it as much as I want without worrying about burn out.
eBike: Q100H on 16S with Phaserunner FOC Controller
eMotorscooter: Vectrix VX-1 on 36S
eCar: Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV... Waiting for warranty to expire
eHouse: 5.5kw On-grid solar with battery backup coming soon!

After 5 builds, the best advice I can give, is start with high quality products. I prefer http://www.ebikes.ca

User avatar
neptronix   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 13959
Joined: Jun 15 2010 5:56pm
Location: California refugee living in Utah, USA
Contact:

Re: Q100 and Q128 with 0.35mm laminations

Post by neptronix » Aug 25 2015 4:03am

I would shoot for no more than 300rpm on 36v, because you want to gear motors like these for ~20mph speeds.. the wattage they can handle continuously correlates with that speed.
Efficiency is everything :bolt:

My first major build: 1.6kW 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w @ 4kW on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The monster scooter: 20" eZee on a Cannondale Semi Recumbent.
Whipper-snapper: ? on a lightweight BikeE Semi Recumbent

Jasonv8z   1 W

1 W
Posts: 59
Joined: Aug 08 2010 5:52pm
Location: San Francisco, CA

Re: Q100 and Q128 with 0.35mm laminations

Post by Jasonv8z » Aug 25 2015 11:26am

Sunder wrote: This is why I want one thats marginally more efficient though. The speed and torque is about right for me, but the buffer would let me feel like I could abuse it as much as I want without worrying about burn out.
That's my thinking. ~20% more efficiency means ~20% less heat, meaning you can run this motor that much harder.

User avatar
motomech   1 GW

1 GW
Posts: 3324
Joined: Sep 11 2010 12:21am
Location: Punta Cana Baja Mexico

Re: Q100 and Q128 with 0.35mm laminations

Post by motomech » Aug 25 2015 1:21pm

Concearning the reduction ratio;
Since Jason has expressed he does not care to use the Q100C as a donor, It seems to me that it will be, by default, 12.6 : 1 (BMS B.'s number) of the Q100 H "260" (free wheel style).
That would be assuming the donor has to be an unmodified unit already in production.
Same for the Q128H?
Motomech

'03 Rocky Mountain Edge 2WD 260 Q100H frt and Ezee V1 rear 2 Elifebike 20A & 25A 9-FET controllers 12S/10Ah Multistar Lipo rear 4Ah Turnigy frt Luna Cyclops Extra lite Alex 24DM rims, Crazy Bobs run ghetto tubeless. 25 mph. Mean Well HLG-320H-54A
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =3&t=83430
'07 GT Idive 4 4.0, Q100C 201 14S LiPoly elifebike 9-FET 20A controller. 23 MPH.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 4#p1378484

User avatar
motomech   1 GW

1 GW
Posts: 3324
Joined: Sep 11 2010 12:21am
Location: Punta Cana Baja Mexico

Re: Q100 and Q128 with 0.35mm laminations

Post by motomech » Aug 25 2015 2:02pm

Jasonv8z wrote:
Sunder wrote: This is why I want one thats marginally more efficient though. The speed and torque is about right for me, but the buffer would let me feel like I could abuse it as much as I want without worrying about burn out.
That's my thinking. ~20% more efficiency means ~20% less heat, meaning you can run this motor that much harder.
I have run every version of the Q100 328(3 different reduction ratios by the way)over the last 3 years and my experience is, motor over-heating has not been an issue.
What happens, in my case at least, is this.
As the power curve aproaches max., The motor becomes current limited, as opposed to RPM limited of a slower speed motor.
The little 6-FET controllers try and run at max. all the time and they become very hot(I have melted the kit's crimp-on bullets on the phase wires).
Going to a larger controller is a work-a-around that really doesn't address the motor's appetite.
I have run up to 15S and there is little increase in top speed without a corrasponding increase in Amps.
The problem then becomes the motor at 12S plus/20-22 Amps makes the motor at start, rough off the line with some hammering.
I guess I should add here that I am not a light and fit rider(working on it) and my bike is not a road bike(more like an adventure bike).
Frankly, I am continiously amazed at the speeds you guys can reach on a single 328, 35 mph! My bike wouldn't do that if I threw it off a cliff :lol:
But the funny thing is, my real world experiences match perfectly the results of the Ebike CA. I guess Justin modeled the sim. with a over-weight senior.
Running 2WD(standard 328's)on 12S with 15 Amp controllers would get me to 28 mph. As fast as I would want to go, but the mid-range was doggy.
The advantage of the customized motors, based on the power curve charts, as I see it is this.
There is an increase thru the curve AND an extension on the top end as well.
So a 260H, I would assume, would have the same, or stronger, "git" off the line, while at the same time, the rpm limit will be extended. The best of both Worlds.

For me personaly, i ride at bicycle speeds(nomal rider, not the Olympic type like you guys),and the 328C on 17 A is plenty for that, but since it's 2WD, I have the Q100H on the frt. when I need to really scoot.


But what I am still interested in is a CST with the 260 gears. Pretty sure both the lastest H's and C's use the same 8T sun gears, it should be doable(and visa-versa) by just swapping gears. Just a matter of buying two motors to make one.
Adventure bike;
SAM_1046.JPG
SAM_1046.JPG (85.99 KiB) Viewed 2821 times
Last edited by motomech on Aug 25 2015 3:06pm, edited 1 time in total.
Motomech

'03 Rocky Mountain Edge 2WD 260 Q100H frt and Ezee V1 rear 2 Elifebike 20A & 25A 9-FET controllers 12S/10Ah Multistar Lipo rear 4Ah Turnigy frt Luna Cyclops Extra lite Alex 24DM rims, Crazy Bobs run ghetto tubeless. 25 mph. Mean Well HLG-320H-54A
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =3&t=83430
'07 GT Idive 4 4.0, Q100C 201 14S LiPoly elifebike 9-FET 20A controller. 23 MPH.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 4#p1378484

Jasonv8z   1 W

1 W
Posts: 59
Joined: Aug 08 2010 5:52pm
Location: San Francisco, CA

Re: Q100 and Q128 with 0.35mm laminations

Post by Jasonv8z » Aug 25 2015 2:45pm

motomech wrote: But what I am still interested in is a CST with the 260 gears. Pretty sure both the lastest H's and C's use the same 8T sun gears, it should be doable(and visa-versa) by just swapping gears. Just a matter of buying two motors to make one.
I would actually love to see the CST version everything as freewheels are all but dead in the US and many other countries. Unfortunately, on these hub motors, the clutch mechanism required for a cassette is built into the hub motor cover, reducing the motor stack height by 10mm.

See below. The ratchet teeth take up motor space.
Image

We can possibly get around this buy using a Shimano brand freehub (see below), as the ratchets are built into the freehub body itself. Having bought and disassembled a Shimano hub just for this purpose, I do think it's possible. However, it's another project all together.

Image

Currently, the Q100 CST shipping from BMSB already has 0.35 laminations. This is also why it's such a good performer even though the motor is tiny. If you want to exceed the Q100 CST's power levels, the easiest solutions I see is to offer a Q100H in 0.35mm or 0.2mm if possible as well as a Q128 CST in 0.35mm or 0.2mm.

User avatar
motomech   1 GW

1 GW
Posts: 3324
Joined: Sep 11 2010 12:21am
Location: Punta Cana Baja Mexico

Re: Q100 and Q128 with 0.35mm laminations

Post by motomech » Aug 25 2015 3:18pm

Currently, the Q100 CST shipping from BMSB already has 0.35 laminations. This is also why it's such a good performer even though the motor is tiny.
That IS interesting.
We suspected something like that when I inspected two versions of the CST;
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... t=cassette
But I also assumed something like that could be attributed to the power increase of the H. But now you tell me that is not the case.
Do you have any idea what makes an H a H?

Still, some questions remain about the Cute.
Winds? As far as I know, there were/are only two, the 24V and the 36V(Base on a early post by Lynchy, now Cel-man).
Magnet quality? Has the Cute ever used magnets of different quality?

Thank you your filling us in, "Enquiring minds want to know"

I little bit of Q100 triva;
When the original Q100 201(called the 108)was introduced by Lynchy, it had a 18T sun gear and up-side down compound gears! The helicals were on top.
He described the motor as "noisey".
The Sun gear has gotten progressively smaller over time, 18T, 15T 11T and lastly, 8T.
Motomech

'03 Rocky Mountain Edge 2WD 260 Q100H frt and Ezee V1 rear 2 Elifebike 20A & 25A 9-FET controllers 12S/10Ah Multistar Lipo rear 4Ah Turnigy frt Luna Cyclops Extra lite Alex 24DM rims, Crazy Bobs run ghetto tubeless. 25 mph. Mean Well HLG-320H-54A
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =3&t=83430
'07 GT Idive 4 4.0, Q100C 201 14S LiPoly elifebike 9-FET 20A controller. 23 MPH.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 4#p1378484

Post Reply