MARBEL ELECTRIC SKATEBOARD

Lightweight / Folding / Portable EVs - seats optional
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MARBEL ELECTRIC SKATEBOARD

Post by Snow247365 » Oct 15, 2015 8:27 pm

Hey guys and gal, so I am waiting on my 6th Marbel board and the last two motors failed but of course there has been poor communication and no explanation for the issues I have had so I'm sure the pros here may know whats going on.
I fried this motor and smoke was coming out and melted something inside.
What the heck is this crap melted around the motor coils.!
Here are a couple videos I made getting around the city on the Marbel .....
Edit: they fixed it in two weeks( october 2015) and it never happened again.now it is Nov 2016
Since they they have extended my warranty to 1.5 years
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Re: MARBEL ELECTRIC SKATEBOARD

Post by psychotiller » Oct 15, 2015 8:51 pm

Man..I mean you no offense brother, but it just doesn't look fun longboarding there :shock:

6th board? Also, not fun. Are those sensor'd motors? If not, maybe you could just change them out to R-specs.
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Re: MARBEL ELECTRIC SKATEBOARD

Post by torqueboards » Oct 15, 2015 8:53 pm

Wow 6th.. That's pretty bad...

Are you sending the entire board? What's breaking and what happens when it breaks?
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Re: MARBEL ELECTRIC SKATEBOARD

Post by Snow247365 » Oct 15, 2015 9:34 pm

No offense taken. There are plenty of bike lanes and open roads to carve but It actually is a lot of fun going down Broadway dodging cars now that I can keep up and pass them in traffic. It is officially the fastest way around town. I mostly got it for getting around town but riding this a blast!

I have had most of the same problems people have been having on the Marbel blog. no pieces falling off the board but bluetooth and electrical issues and now the motor has been failing. The turn around time is very quick and they have shipped me a replacement as soon as I drop off the old one but they still have some work to do to get it right.

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Re: MARBEL ELECTRIC SKATEBOARD

Post by LEVer » Oct 15, 2015 11:56 pm

I know who you are from their FB page. :)

Those stuffs on the windings look like what's left of the epoxy when you burned the motor. The epoxy hold the windings together so you can stuff as much copper wires in the stator and to make sure they don't stretch out. It also insulates and seal the windings.

It looks like the motor has a lot of turns, making it a low kv motor. Unfortunately, they used really thin wires. Low kv, because of the number of turns, has high resistance and heats up fast. And if you use really thin wires like those, they really will burn out fast.

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Re: MARBEL ELECTRIC SKATEBOARD

Post by Snow247365 » Oct 16, 2015 12:06 am

torqueboards wrote:Wow 6th.. That's pretty bad...

Are you sending the entire board? What's breaking and what happens when it breaks?
I return the whole thing in case they need to update the charger too. It has regenerative breaking and it seems to work fine since belts were tightened and upgraded... until the motor burned out. then it shuts down automatically.

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Re: MARBEL ELECTRIC SKATEBOARD

Post by Snow247365 » Oct 16, 2015 1:06 am

Pediglide wrote:I know who you are from their FB page. :)

Those stuffs on the windings look like what's left of the epoxy when you burned the motor. The epoxy hold the windings together so you can stuff as much copper wires in the stator and to make sure they don't stretch out. It also insulates and seal the windings.

It looks like the motor has a lot of turns, making it a low kv motor. Unfortunately, they used really thin wires. Low kv, because of the number of turns, has high resistance and heats up fast. And if you use really thin wires like those, they really will burn out fast.
Thanks man I really appreciate the knowledgeable answer. I would love to make my own board but I don't know where to start besides just ordering a kit on DIYelectric.. I'm still learning what it takes to build an e-board.
Marbel doesn't seem to want to talk about how they are addressing the issues. They just send me a new board and tell me they will get back to me but it doesn't last more 40 miles when I ride it hard and fast. I don't know enough about this stuff to know what is really going on and they like to keep people in the dark. So I was just over working a motor that can not handle the load? What do you think needs to happen for them to make a motor that doesn't burn out? I think they make their own motors so do they just need to use a thicker wire or come up with a new motor design? is this a complicated upgrade or do they just get better wire? I am a big guy riding in stop and go traffic at full acceleration. What should I keep an eye on? What are the right questions to ask Marbel? Though I expect no straight answers from Marbel I can stir the pot to make sure they are doing the right thing. Is the solution as simple as choosing a more appropriate wire?

When they started kickstarter their first designed was a closed "waterproof" can and could only go 20mph. Since then they opened the motor and put a fan on it and raised top speed to 25mph. Thanks Bro. it is nice to hear from people that know whats up!
Last edited by Snow247365 on Oct 29, 2015 6:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: MARBEL ELECTRIC SKATEBOARD

Post by torqueboards » Oct 16, 2015 1:28 am

I think they overestimated the amount of rugged riding and hard riding people actually do on eboards.

That single 50mm is highly lacking especially if they planned on users climbing any 15% inclines.As Pedi said if they used thicker windings then it wouldn't get hot as fast but they should of went the dual motor route in the first place and/or up to 63mm since the heat is able to dispate faster with a bigger can.

I actually wonder what custom ESC they are currently using.. Should ask sl33py to post about it. What happened to do that motor is due to it being overworked and/or the motor being damaged prior to using it. Most likely overworked and overheated.

IMO A Marbel Board or even a Stary shouldn't be used for riders over 175-190 lbs. That's about border line especially if you want to climb hills. If you want to climb hills and are over 200 lbs.. Dual 50's or Dual 63's (better if you don't care for weight) and either 6S or even better 8S/10S/12S.

I think everyone thinks most riders are about 140 or 160 lbs... Most riders are at least 180-200lbs with a great percentage 240lbs.

More chances than not though they build a board for someone who is like 160 lbs.
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Re: MARBEL ELECTRIC SKATEBOARD

Post by Snow247365 » Oct 16, 2015 2:01 am

Thanks Torqueboards, I think based on another Marbel guy here the pulleys are 30 and 12. They claim to allow for rider weighing up to 250 but test based on riders at 170lbs. I weigh about 200lbs carrying my bag. but as you can see from the video I am either gunning it or slamming the break riding around NYC. Boosted and Metro can make a single motor e-board that doesn't fail so I figured that Marbel could too. Do you think they likely rebuild the motor I sent back? They have made changes along the way and have successfully addressed the other issues I have had so I expect them to make some upgrades here but I am trying to figure out how long that will take. I expected issues but I'm am waiting for board #6 and this is getting old.
I think they keep sending me the product they have now knowing it may fail and I just hope it is because they are working on making changes and waiting on better parts. I have been supportive and patient but the lack of transparency leaves me not knowing what to think.
Last edited by Snow247365 on Oct 16, 2015 2:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: MARBEL ELECTRIC SKATEBOARD

Post by LEVer » Oct 16, 2015 2:12 am

If I were them, I'd first increase the voltage. It seems like the battery is just 7s (25.9v) based on the charger. More voltage means less amps for the same wattage(power). Less amps means cooler electronics. Boosted uses almost 40v. This will also prevent (i think) the battery and blinking light issue.

I can tell you 100% those motors are from China. They just look exactly like the ones you see on Alibaba. The way Boosted put their sensors near the motor's pulley and enclosed it to ensure accurate reading is also better than putting it inside the motors, where debris can damage it and motor's heat can fry it.

I think they boxed themselves in a corner. They went for the lightness and had to make shortcuts to achieve that goal. They would have to forgo the 10 lb. weight if they want the board to last.

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Re: MARBEL ELECTRIC SKATEBOARD

Post by Snow247365 » Oct 16, 2015 2:22 am

The charger says 29.4v 6A

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Re: MARBEL ELECTRIC SKATEBOARD

Post by LEVer » Oct 16, 2015 2:27 am

That's the max voltage fully charged. Each cell is 3.7v nominal, 4.2v max. 4.2v*7 is 29.4v. So your battery pack is 29.4v fully charged, but average is 25.9v.

6A is the max amps it charges the pack.

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Re: MARBEL ELECTRIC SKATEBOARD

Post by Snow247365 » Oct 16, 2015 2:52 am

Thanks for explaining. All the blinking LED light issues and charger, bluetooth issues seemed to have been resolved on my last board but I have never had the board more than a few days before it died so who knows what else could have happened.
I remember them bragging about building the motor sensor in the motor but didn't know where they get the motors. They made it sound like they make the motor but they are just adding sensors. Doesn't Metro have a built in sensor?
Where did they cut corners, choosing too few volts or the wire thickness ?
So if they get the motors from china they would have to order different or upgraded motors to resolve this problem? that can take a couple months at least right?

Here is a quick run down of the issues I have had.
#1 had electronics insulation issues ..making contact with the conductive carbon deck force board into safe mode and belt slipping and belt cover rub issues
#2 just shut off after charging and wouldnt turn back on ...stronger belt no more slipping still rubbing but they grinded the cover a bit on the inside to rub less . free shirt.
#3 motor Sensor failed (I think) board would lock in position when I throttle and could only break but no connections lost
#4 motor failed after over working it a little it failed abruptly and locked up and threw me off... went into safe mode and couldn't turn it back on. Later noticed the electronics inside must of come loose and felt it moving around inside the deck. New belt cover on back order.
#5 I was told this board would be temporary but they wanted to send me one for the Broadway Bomb event in NYC this weekend This failed after a two days on a 6 miute ride. Here is the video of how I was riding it right before the motor over heated meted and failed after I stopped at a light.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUjwb7EORwc
#6 No explanation given to wether the issues were addressed but hoping it arrives before the race.

So do you guys think they can get the motor right? I guess I should ride it conservatively till I can confirm that motor upgrades have been made. Am I just riding it too hard or did they just over estimate the performance of these motors. I can't imagine changing the voltage would be a quick solution either. How long do you think this board will take to be ready?
Last edited by Snow247365 on Oct 29, 2015 7:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: MARBEL ELECTRIC SKATEBOARD

Post by sl33py » Oct 16, 2015 9:51 am

Hey Snow! I also recognize you from FB Marbel page.

My nose controller failed on mine after 3 rides. Super bummed, but when it worked it seemed to work really well. Speaking with Misty she gave me a lot of info on what was potentially failing and when i sent her the blink codes she responded back exactly what the issue was. I definitely ride more conservatively than you (looking at your vids), but am also a lot heavier than you as well. My issues before this have been minor, but sent the board back beginning of this week. Hope for a quick turnaround.

A lot of potential and even though i've built 4 DIY eboards now (some are not completed), what i can't do yet is build a 10lb eboard... I love the sensored motor and even though it's only 50mm it seems to get me going pretty well. Did not take it up any hills so i will need to test that. I've ridden a single 50mm and single 63mm, and have one semi decent steep hill in my neighborhood i plan to ride to compare. Kinda a benchmark hill for comparison. Not super scientific, but i know exactly how fast i can go up and compare with my other setups.

I also had the belt rub issue and possible remote issues. The replacement remote is waiting for me at home, i got it the other day after i'd already shipped the board back.

Fingers crossed they figure this out and hope you get a board in time for the bomb!

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Re: MARBEL ELECTRIC SKATEBOARD

Post by LEVer » Oct 16, 2015 10:37 am

The higher voltage is easy, they just need to re-configure the battery pack. It will not add any weight. But they will need new BMS, charger and ESC. It will be costly but it's better in the long term.

It seems like a lot of you guys from NYC are having issues. This makes me believe that the constant braking is also heating up the motor, not just the acceleration. The 2.5:1 ratio is nice for coasting and manually pushing the board, but it's asking too much for the small motor to abruptly stop a 250+lb load moving at 20+mph. And if you do it constantly, the motor will not survive. You need to coast more to your stopping point. In NYC, this means lower top speed, unless you find a good enough stretch of empty road. So yeah, you need to ride it more conservatively.

I'f I'm Marbel, I'd consider offering dual motors for the reasons Torqueboard's said. Not all riders are the same, and certainly not the way they ride. They need to remove the "fetish" for small and light things and consider that most riders will actually be riding the board--and riding them hard--instead of carrying it.

Also, if you are smoking the motors with the small 76mm wheels, I would not get the 100mm.

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Re: MARBEL ELECTRIC SKATEBOARD

Post by torqueboards » Oct 16, 2015 10:52 am

@Sl33py - what cells are they using?

I noticed for a 10lb board its a very difficult feat. Limited to about 6 mile range with a single motor. For an added 4-5 lbs and 10 mile + dual motor is well worth it IMO. But guess we'll see once I get a Stary which is suppose to be 10 lbs. Single you end up running into issues with overheating, not enough stopping power, more damage to a single motor versus dividing it across dual motors.

I still find it hard to believe too that majority of people riding these boards are probably well over 5' 10" and 180+ lbs and 15 lbs is too heavy :mrgreen: I'm included my board at 15 lbs is too heavy.. but I probably just need some 35 lb dumbbells and do more curls.. then that 15 lbs would be a lot lighter.

I'm glad that most people over engineer their DIY boards because we would be having similar issues currently.
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Re: MARBEL ELECTRIC SKATEBOARD

Post by kimboviper » Oct 16, 2015 11:37 am

some guys are reporting only 21mph on the Marbel

What kind of top speed are you guys seeing on your Marbels?

6 boards returned? Is there a lemon law for eboards?

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Re: MARBEL ELECTRIC SKATEBOARD

Post by sl33py » Oct 16, 2015 12:05 pm

torqueboards wrote:@Sl33py - what cells are they using?

I noticed for a 10lb board its a very difficult feat. Limited to about 6 mile range with a single motor. For an added 4-5 lbs and 10 mile + dual motor is well worth it IMO. But guess we'll see once I get a Stary which is suppose to be 10 lbs. Single you end up running into issues with overheating, not enough stopping power, more damage to a single motor versus dividing it across dual motors.

I still find it hard to believe too that majority of people riding these boards are probably well over 5' 10" and 180+ lbs and 15 lbs is too heavy :mrgreen: I'm included my board at 15 lbs is too heavy.. but I probably just need some 35 lb dumbbells and do more curls.. then that 15 lbs would be a lot lighter.

I'm glad that most people over engineer their DIY boards because we would be having similar issues currently.
I don't know the internal specifics. Not willing to void the warranty quite yet, so did not crack it open. When the warranty expires that's the first thing i'm doing.

It's pretty ridiculous how light it feels at 10lbs. Compared w/ GF's Vanguard 41 setup (single 63mm) which is 13.5-14lbs it seems significantly lighter. My marbel actually weighed in at 11lbs. Only changes i made were some new bushings and tekton bearings.

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Re: MARBEL ELECTRIC SKATEBOARD

Post by kimboviper » Oct 16, 2015 12:11 pm

Sleepy

what top speed are you seeing on your Marbel?

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Re: MARBEL ELECTRIC SKATEBOARD

Post by sl33py » Oct 16, 2015 12:20 pm

kimboviper wrote:Sleepy

what top speed are you seeing on your Marbel?
Didn't get a chance to go all out. I tried sport mode and got it up to about 19, but bushings needed tweaking so didn't try to go faster than that until dialed in... then had other issues and haven't tested.

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Re: MARBEL ELECTRIC SKATEBOARD

Post by kimboviper » Oct 16, 2015 12:55 pm

sl33py wrote:
kimboviper wrote:Sleepy

what top speed are you seeing on your Marbel?
Didn't get a chance to go all out. I tried sport mode and got it up to about 19, but bushings needed tweaking so didn't try to go faster than that until dialed in... then had other issues and haven't tested.
ok keep us updated. thanks dude!

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Re: MARBEL ELECTRIC SKATEBOARD

Post by Snow247365 » Oct 16, 2015 1:21 pm

Thanks guys, this is all making sense now.
The metro board has a single 3000w motor Do they have the same problems? probably less since they max out at 20mph with a bigger motor and maybe that is why they have a 6 mo warranty.

I have only been able to get 23.4mph out of the Marbel when I checked the first board since then I haven't checked but it does seem to be going noticably slower than advertised. I outgrew the 20 miles an hour rather quickly since I have been skating snowboarding for a long time. I got this board for a couple of reasons Range and Weight and Speed . If one is proven not to be true I may have to rethink this if it is half baked.
They have back their product and I have not been stuck with a lemon because they send me one within a day of me dropping off the box but as i said it is getting old. I am starting to believe this is going the way of Tesla roadster...great idea but poor product and execution The boosted started with a single motor, albeit smaller and slower design, the single motor advantages may not be practical for durability hence the dual+ I guess. It is showing that the weight value means less to nothing when you can't reach the higher speeds that have been claimed without burning out the motor.

Maybe this is why I have not seen 25mph. I would not doubt they have limited the top speed right now to prevent more motor failures. Raising the Marbel speed from 20 to 25 significantly affects the return rate and failure rate.
The problem is this needs to go that speed and be a practical weight and perform well enough to handle a 200 lb guy in an urban environment to be practical for daily transportation as they claim. Otherwise it is just a toy and a novelty. And they pitch this thing as something to replace the car. There is nothing i can get that is going to get me around NYC faster than this, unless I build it. but it still would weight a lot more. Marbel is beautiful too but perhaps they were a little over ambitious and will have more success with their "Model S" when they roll out the next product with everything they have learned. I am thinking about bailing if I determine the technology is just not available to meet their expectations with the current design.
What a long strange trip its been. I have been a vocal supporter them room to grow and learn but at one point I may have to make a practical decision.
Last edited by Snow247365 on Oct 16, 2015 3:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: MARBEL ELECTRIC SKATEBOARD

Post by torqueboards » Oct 16, 2015 2:01 pm

Metroboard has a 6374 motor or similar. It shouldn't have the same issues as the Marbel but it's not going to be 10 lbs also and at that price TBH.. You might as well build your own.

If you want over 23mph. Your only solution is DIY.

Boosted started with a dual and offered a single afterward due to some people not being able to afford it. Boosted limits power to the motors to prevent burn out which I'm surprised Marbel isn't doing (supposedly) since your having all these issues and if they do have a custom made ESC.

Most people don't sell 25mph+ due to liability issues.

Unfortunately, if you want a power house board it is going to weigh more since you are adding more batteries and more motors. Unfortunately, the weight and size of batteries and motors don't get smaller.

To be honest... I think the best bet would be a Dual motor setup especially if you want to climb hills. I'd get a Chaka deck with 10S6P or 12S6P or similar with 6355 motors on Caliber Trucks and/or if PediGlide's motors can handle 20-25 degree inclines for a 200-220 rider.

A have a friend who's about 240lbs who rides my dual 50mm 260kv 6S setup and can climb hills (20-25% incline) with no issues. Although, it is unsensored so you do have to initially kick off. I would upgrade though to what I mentioned above. Go for a slightly higher KV 230-260KV and higher voltage if you want more speed or hub motors from PediGlide.
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Re: MARBEL ELECTRIC SKATEBOARD

Post by kimboviper » Oct 16, 2015 2:06 pm

that is so weird that people getting different top speed mph

i would love to have someone post a speed graph

here is a speed graph of a stock Boosted Dual+
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Re: MARBEL ELECTRIC SKATEBOARD

Post by torqueboards » Oct 16, 2015 3:00 pm

Top speed is also determined by load. Rider weight, wind, pavement (smooth) bumpy but they shouldn't be too far off +-5mph.
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