64v BBSHD Bac855 or Phaserunner?

Timalpipo

1 mW
Joined
Jan 17, 2021
Messages
13
Hi everyone,
I got an old Giant AC equipped with BBSHD 64v triangle battery and Volition bikes 38 amps controller. Unfortunately the controller blew up due to the fact that it is not thermal monitored ( no shut-off, nothing). I'm now considering installing an off motor controller, and I hesitate between Grin Phaserunner or Asi BAC 855 .
Any experience feedback, advice or pros and cons are welcome.
Thanks a lot for sharing.
:mrgreen:
 
PhaseRunner is based on ASI's BAC800

I would pay the extra for Grin's improvements and better support

unless you had a favoured ASI dealer that reliably gives great support to DIYers

in which case please let us know!

Or if that 855 has some special feature(s) ? That I dunno.
 
Thanks a lot for the Swift reply. Much appreciated.
I haven't got any favorite dealers, as I'm in Australia, I'll probably order directly from Grin, in Canada.
I'm attaching some pictures of the Volition controller for info.
 

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If it helps, there are also some threads about setting up the PR for a BBSxx system. This search finds at least some of them
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/search.php?keywords=phaserunner+bbs*&terms=all&author=&sc=1&sf=titleonly&sr=topics&sk=t&sd=d&st=0&ch=300&t=0&submit=Search
there mgiht be more.
 
Hello,

PhaseRunner has been design to be simple to use.
Grin Software is easy to use and to understand for programation.
PhaseRunner has been design from BAC 850, with some improvments.

BAC 855 is much more complicated, as all features/options are avail to the customer, ... if he need them !

For me, the big difference is that if you need a display.
For PhaseRunner, you have to use CycleAnalyst, witch is a good compromise capability/simplicity.

ASI BAC can use CycleAnalyst, 750c (KMS version), EggRider, ERT NXT (great, but no support !).

In others words, PhaseRunner for users, BAC 855 for Engineers.

ElectronCycle sells BAC855 with 750c Display already configured

EggRider is a great small Display with 2 configs (ROAD / OFFROAD), to be used as legal config in town and full power outside,
and have an Android application

CycleAnalyst V3.1 can also use 3 presets, and analog/digital input can be use to change parameter (speed/power/gains) on the fly !

So you have to know witch Display to want to use. It gives you the associated controller.

Olivier
 
hi all, thanks for all your precious answers. Fully convinced to switch to Phaserunner now. Some more details are still kind of blurry for me though.
I got a BBSHD, will i have to change all the connectors for brakes, throttle if i use the Phaserunner?
are there any kind of adapters to make things easier?
same question for the display, i understand that i will no longer able to use my c500 bafang display, right? so i must buy a cycle analyst.
I've also noticed that i need to buy the thermistor separately, as well as its cable, i thought that was coming with the bafang kit ?
How about the bafang speed sensor? should i also change the connector?
I know that is a lot of questions and I''m sorry.
Thanks a lot for any support.
 
If you use CycleAnalyst V3.1,
throttle, brake sensor, speed sensor, PAS goes directly to the CycleAnalyst.
 
Thanks Olivier , much appreciate your swift answers.
Ebike .ca is closed till the 28 of Jan, any clue where I could buy those parts elsewhere?
Cheers.
Phil
 
olivier2604 said:
For me, the big difference is that if you need a display.
For PhaseRunner, you have to use CycleAnalyst, witch is a good compromise capability/simplicity.

ASI BAC can use CycleAnalyst, 750c (KMS version), EggRider, ERT NXT (great, but no support !).
Except that the CA is NOT a display like those others. It does not communicate with the controller in any way, and does not display any information from the controller, and cannot change settings in the controller, and is a completely separate computer system to process various inputs based on your settings to produce a throttle signal output.

The others are actually displays that interact with and communicate with the controller, and display information actually sent by the controller, and can change settings in the controller.

If you want to be able to change settings and see information with the PR without a computer, you simply use an android device and the PR app (avialable on google play), along with a USB OTG cable to use the same USB-serial cable you'd use with the computer. (the app is still in development, so it's probably not perfect...but you can report problems to Grin so they can fix them. :) )
 
amberwolf said:
olivier2604 said:
For me, the big difference is that if you need a display.
For PhaseRunner, you have to use CycleAnalyst, witch is a good compromise capability/simplicity.

ASI BAC can use CycleAnalyst, 750c (KMS version), EggRider, ERT NXT (great, but no support !).
Except that the CA is NOT a display like those others. It does not communicate with the controller in any way, and does not display any information from the controller, and cannot change settings in the controller, and is a completely separate computer system to process various inputs based on your settings to produce a throttle signal output.

The others are actually displays that interact with and communicate with the controller, and display information actually sent by the controller, and can change settings in the controller.

If you want to be able to change settings and see information with the PR without a computer, you simply use an android device and the PR app (avialable on google play), along with a USB OTG cable to use the same USB-serial cable you'd use with the computer. (the app is still in development, so it's probably not perfect...but you can report problems to Grin so they can fix them. :) )
This thread is fabulous, it is more and more clear for me. So that means that the display is useless? ( I do not feel like spending all my time playing with Cycle Analyst..) I just need to display Battery level, speed and Pas level, basic information. It is a pity that I can't reuse my 500c or 851c even my Eggrider would have been perfect , but seems useless. on top of that, I understand that I will have to make home made harnesses to connect existing bafang brakes and throttle to the display. Shame. it remains also unclear where to connect the speed sensor and how.
Thanks a lot for the contributions.
About the shop, I guess I have to wait for them to re open? right..
 
Timalpipo said:
This thread is fabulous, it is more and more clear for me. So that means that the display is useless? ( I do not feel like spending all my time playing with Cycle Analyst..) I just need to display Battery level, speed and Pas level, basic information.
If you want to display information actually sent from the controller itself, then the CA cant' do that--it's not designed to.

It *will* show you battery voltage and current and watts, and keep track of power usage and all sorts of other stuff, as long as you connect the controller's shunt to it or use an external shunt between battery and controller. It can also do all sorts of other input processing, but the PR is "smart" so I dunno how mcuh of it you need.

If you need PAS control, the CA can convert many PAS sensors to a throttle signal customized for your controller, and you can make three presets for different "PAS levels", etc. I don't know if the PR or ASI controllers have a PAS input, or if they support presets / PAS levels. You'd need to verify that if you need those.


It is a pity that I can't reuse my 500c or 851c even my Eggrider would have been perfect , but seems useless.
Unfortunately I don't know if there is any way to do that with the PR; the Eggrider can be used with the ASI version (dunno what's supported though--it may not have all features?).

But you *can* use an android device with the PR app to see (and change) stuff in the PR, as noted previously.

on top of that, I understand that I will have to make home made harnesses to connect existing bafang brakes and throttle to the display. Shame. it remains also unclear where to connect the speed sensor and how.
It's very likely that Grin already has cables for this. If they don't, there's a german shop that might, on these pages. You'd need to ask them though
https://www.ebike-solutions.com/en/shop/pedelec-e-bike-parts/cables/
https://www.ebike-solutions.com/en/shop/pedelec-e-bike-parts/cycle-analyst/?p=1

If your Bafang stuff uses Higo connectors, Grins' newer CA version also uses those so shouldn't need conversion cables. You'd need to verify this with Grin, though. If the speed sensor is the one from the wheel, that just goes to the speed sensor inputs on the CA itself if that's where you need it displayed. If you have to run the speed sensor to the PR for any reason the wiring might get more complicated; there is at least one thread froma while back to help resolve that; I dont remember the conclusion though. I'd have to look it up.
 
Have you considered modifying volitions controller so that it is thermally monitored.

What was the performance like, How long did it last before it failed?

Interesting that the controller failed, not the windings, are you thinking of running more power?

(extra thoughts, you mentioned a 64 volt battery, have you measured voltage at full charge? what capacitors were in the controller and what mosfets?)
 
I'm not offering any useful advice on this topic, just congratulating you on your excellent collection of electrical revenge porn. Like one of those people who slow down motorways when there's an accident.

What part started the fire, FET? Or was it the PCB itself burning?

Do any of your magnets still stick to other magnets?
 
amberwolf said:
Timalpipo said:
This thread is fabulous, it is more and more clear for me. So that means that the display is useless? ( I do not feel like spending all my time playing with Cycle Analyst..) I just need to display Battery level, speed and Pas level, basic information.
If you want to display information actually sent from the controller itself, then the CA cant' do that--it's not designed to.

It *will* show you battery voltage and current and watts, and keep track of power usage and all sorts of other stuff, as long as you connect the controller's shunt to it or use an external shunt between battery and controller. It can also do all sorts of other input processing, but the PR is "smart" so I dunno how mcuh of it you need.

If you need PAS control, the CA can convert many PAS sensors to a throttle signal customized for your controller, and you can make three presets for different "PAS levels", etc. I don't know if the PR or ASI controllers have a PAS input, or if they support presets / PAS levels. You'd need to verify that if you need those.


It is a pity that I can't reuse my 500c or 851c even my Eggrider would have been perfect , but seems useless.
Unfortunately I don't know if there is any way to do that with the PR; the Eggrider can be used with the ASI version (dunno what's supported though--it may not have all features?).

But you *can* use an android device with the PR app to see (and change) stuff in the PR, as noted previously.

on top of that, I understand that I will have to make home made harnesses to connect existing bafang brakes and throttle to the display. Shame. it remains also unclear where to connect the speed sensor and how.
It's very likely that Grin already has cables for this. If they don't, there's a german shop that might, on these pages. You'd need to ask them though
https://www.ebike-solutions.com/en/shop/pedelec-e-bike-parts/cables/
https://www.ebike-solutions.com/en/shop/pedelec-e-bike-parts/cycle-analyst/?p=1

If your Bafang stuff uses Higo connectors, Grins' newer CA version also uses those so shouldn't need conversion cables. You'd need to verify this with Grin, though. If the speed sensor is the one from the wheel, that just goes to the speed sensor inputs on the CA itself if that's where you need it displayed. If you have to run the speed sensor to the PR for any reason the wiring might get more complicated; there is at least one thread froma while back to help resolve that; I dont remember the conclusion though. I'd have to look it up.
Hi Amberwolf,
I want to thank you first for taking the time to write such a detailed answer. it is more and more clear to me now.
You said that I have to connect CA to a Shunt, well, I've ordered the CA AndPR with the BBSHD harness, shouldn't it be already connected then? at least I will need battery level, speed and pas level.
Regarding the Pas, PR is connecting to the PAS sensor of the BBSHD, and yes, I'll need to be able to change the values on the fly. i hope that it will be possible with the CA/PR combo.
For the connectors, I did not want to kill my old BBSH harness... but if I have to, I'll do it , so that I can get a clean installation.
I will pick the speed sensor from the BBS and cable it to the CA, the only concerns would be aesthetics, because , the less cable we got going through the bike, the better it is..
Thanks again so much for sharing all those tips and knowledge.
Phil
 
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