A source of Genuine A123 20Ahr nanotech pouch cells

[Hillhater]

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2011/03/a123-20110331.html#more

A123 Systems is targeting the emerging stop-start/microhybrid market with a 12V Li-ion battery solution based on its automotive class lithium ion AMP20 20 Ah prismatic pouch cells. The system comes equipped with battery management electronics for cell balancing and protection.

Compared to lead-acid AGM batteries used in such applications, the Li-ion batteries offer better charge acceptance, ultimately resulting in lower alternator loads on the engine and better fuel economy; lighter weight (about 60% less than comparable lead-acid batteries); and longer life, according to Jeff Kessen, A123’s VP of Automotive Marketing and Communication.

In addition to the two posts on the 12V package, the battery has a communication connector to the vehicle controller...

...The Amp20 cells were designed for plug-in hybrid and electric vehicle applications, and offers a power density of more than 2,400 W/kg and 4,500. Nominal voltage is 3.3V. ....

 

[neptronix]

Sweet! I'll take 4

 

[DOMEPEACE]

damn posted yesterday and everything... wow. real A123 prismatic pouches... 6months maybe? major "yet-to-be-named" OE? my fellow mad scientists, the LORD has granted our prayers and shined down his light of mercy! can i get a halleujah! (betcha the yet to be named OE is toyota )

ill take 100 units!!

 

[Hillhater]

Keep yer panties dry...... you may have to buy the complete hybrid car just to get your hands on the battery !! :lol: :lol:

Seriously, if they are targeting the "stop start" auto fuel savers, then there are already 1000's of those on the road ..( i suspect every car maker has one now) ,... so they (A123) would be nuts not to make it available as an after market battery to maximise sales

 

[dogman dan]

What sooo many have been waiting for, a lithium car battery with better than 2c cells.

 

[rektide]

anyone want to wager on how long until we espherers actually get a source?

title is a lie. -1.

 

[neptronix]

What sooo many have been waiting for, a lithium car battery with better than 2c cells.

Actually, everything outside of the Tesla should be exceeding 2C..

Nissan Leaf: lithium managnate ( ? ), 24kwH, 80kw drivetrain, thus battery needs to be capable of ~4C maximum.. could be rated much higher than that as Nissan is not using any thermal controls.

Chevy Volt: lipo, 16kwH, 111kw drivetrain, thus battery needs to be capable of ~9C maximum ( and lipo is no slouch )
Focus Electric: should be using same LG Chem cells
Hyundai Sonata hybrid: should be using same LG Chem cells

Fisker Karma: A123 ( as far as i know )

Toyota Prius V / Prius Plugin: A123? Tesla pack? Lipo? dunno....

 

[jimw1960]

damn posted yesterday and everything... wow. real A123 prismatic pouches... 6months maybe? major "yet-to-be-named" OE? my fellow mad scientists, the LORD has granted our prayers and shined down his light of mercy! can i get a halleujah! (betcha the yet to be named OE is toyota )

ill take 100 units!!

I wouldn't start celebrating until they tell you what the price is.

 

[wesnewell]

I wouldn't start celebrating until they tell you what the price is.

Yeah really. I found 12V li-ti batteries too, but at ~$1200 a pop for a 13ah one, I'll have to pass.

http://www.tekbattery.com/prices.html

 

[Hillhater]

What sooo many have been waiting for, a lithium car battery with better than 2c cells.

Well. apparently not much more than 2C continuous !
From A123's web site for their "Power Modules"..

Specifications:

* Core cell: AMP20 Prismatic Cell
* Configurations: 6S – 28S (Nominal voltage: 19.2 – 89.6V)
1P – 13P (Nominal capacity: 20 – 260Ahs)
* Up to 5.38 kWh per module
* Discharge power: 3C Continuous, 10C Peak (10 sec)

 

[texaspyro]

http://www.tekbattery.com/prices.html

Those batteries are built from standard A123 M1 cells...

 

[Hillhater]

If so, i wonder where they are sourcing the genuine cells from, since they wont exactly have a large volume demand at those prices and A123 dont seem to want to operate outside the big end of town.

 

[DOMEPEACE]

for sure, i wouldnt trust any pack made with A123 or any cell marked A123. they want to play with the big dogs they dont care about us chihuhas. even though we are roughly 10% of their market. about these bad boys? i doubt we will see them by late 2012, so we got some time to pinch pennies. and I dont give a damn what they cost. they could be $500.00 and id still shell out for 'em. we are talking about the prismatic pouch here! this is the evander holyfield of batteries! now if there $10k (like the HYMOTION battery system for your prius) then forget it, the $ per Wh is insane @ that point. which is exactly what A123 is dealing with on the other end. their stock is @ an all time low, and if they dont find some serious coin quick(dont bother posting about something you just heard about, i check A123's website almost daily) they will be gone, and we will be stuck with explosive chemistrys. sorry fanboys, but its the truth. hurts me too

 

[x88x]

Interesting. I know A123 have had a product page (sorta) for these for a while, but hadn't heard any real news outside of that.

they could be $500.00 and id still shell out for 'em.

Honestly, I'll be surprised if they're as low as twice that.

 

[DOMEPEACE]

Interesting. I know A123 have had a product page (sorta) for these for a while, but hadn't heard any real news outside of that.

they could be $500.00 and id still shell out for 'em.

Honestly, I'll be surprised if they're as low as twice that.

i feel ya, im expecting quadruple that. i quoted that price because with ample manufacturing, the standalone prismatic cell will be roughly $80.00, however we all know the manufacturing nonsense @ A123 systems. for the sake of the environment i hope 2011 is nice to them.

 

[Hillhater]

Yeah really. I found 12V li-ti batteries too, but at ~$1200 a pop for a 13ah one, I'll have to pass.

http://www.tekbattery.com/prices.html

If you noticed the " Gowheel.com" label on those batteries, you may want to notice this also ..
http://www.ripoffreport.com/car-parts-accessories/ev-battery-www-gowhe/ev-battery-gowheel-com-rippe-b7f49.htm

 

[wesnewell]

http://www.tekbattery.com/prices.html

Those batteries are built from standard A123 M1 cells...

So they are. What a ripoff!

Lithium titanate batteries are not the same as A123 cells, which are lifepo4 chemistry. Nominal cell voltage of A123 cells is 3.3v. Nominal cell voltage of a li-ti battery is 2.3V. Life expectancy of li-ti is 9000+ cycles and 20+ years according to wikipedia. So I guess I still don't know where to get them yet. Anyone know of a source?

 

[Hillhater]

...Lithium titanate batteries are not the same as A123 cells, which are lifepo4 chemistry. Nominal cell voltage of A123 cells is 3.3v. Nominal cell voltage of a li-ti battery is 2.3V. Life expectancy of li-ti is 9000+ cycles and 20+ years according to wikipedia. So I guess I still don't know where to get them yet. Anyone know of a source?

Source of what ?..
...Lithium titanate ?
....A123.M1 cells ?
...A123 AMP20 Prismatic Cells ?

 

[wesnewell]

Source of what ?..
...Lithium titanate ?
....A123.M1 cells ?
...A123 AMP20 Prismatic Cells ?

Lithium titanate cells or batteries. Without buying an EV.

 

[sangesf]

You can buy them from toshiba...
Problem is.. They are incredibly expensive!
A 24v 4.2ah battery costs about $700

 

[DOMEPEACE]

You can buy them from toshiba...
Problem is.. They are incredibly expensive!
A 24v 4.2ah battery costs about $700

holy crap thats expensive!! i could buy 3 sets of cells of the NANO-TECHs and get the same cycle life! well titanium is in it, and i bet they are hard to manufacture compared to even A123s. this means that even though some are really expensive, there are at least 5 different li-chems out there that are viable EV quality output. the next few years is going to be a wild ride for us EV fanatics.

 

[dangerzone]

damn posted yesterday and everything... wow. real A123 prismatic pouches... 6months maybe? major "yet-to-be-named" OE? my fellow mad scientists, the LORD has granted our prayers and shined down his light of mercy! can i get a halleujah! (betcha the yet to be named OE is toyota )

ill take 100 units!!

It ain't April's Fools, is it..?

Anyway, haven't some of the racing cars got just four of those A123 20Ah cells in the battery case for starting..?

Talking about prices, someone said one 20Ah cell is a bit less than 50$ and that there are Chinese (or Korean?) A123 20Ah cells for around 33$... Does anyone have more info on prices..?

 

[dangerzone]

On the other hand, I ran into this thread...

http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/can-a123-amp20m1hd-cells-charged-4ci-56862p3.html

And pricing seem to be from 33$ to 47$ depending on the quantity... Some 500 cells would be 43$ a piece which is quite similar to the Michigan factory prices, isn't it..?

http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/427559098/A123_20Ah_Lithium_Ion_Cell.html

http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/428150040/A123_Systems_Prismatic_Pouch_Type_20Ah_Automotive_Class_Lithium_Ion_Cell_AMP20M1HD_A.html

 

[DOMEPEACE]

damn posted yesterday and everything... wow. real A123 prismatic pouches... 6months maybe? major "yet-to-be-named" OE? my fellow mad scientists, the LORD has granted our prayers and shined down his light of mercy! can i get a halleujah! (betcha the yet to be named OE is toyota )

ill take 100 units!!

It ain't April's Fools, is it..?

Anyway, haven't some of the racing cars got just four of those A123 20Ah cells in the battery case for starting..?

Talking about prices, someone said one 20Ah cell is a bit less than 50$ and that there are Chinese (or Korean?) A123 20Ah cells for around 33$... Does anyone have more info on prices..?

dude that post was weeks old, and isnt even relevant to the subject matter. yeah i know i go on and on about A123, but the chemistry is a revolution. NANO-TECHs, Li-TI, and im sure others as well, were all made by reverse engineering a LiFePO4 from A123. as far as pricing? id bet that until A123 becomes a major player(everready or larger) we can expect to pay anywhere from 30-75$ for QC fail and $50-$200 for QC pass. @ 200 for 3.2v @20AH its cheaper to go with alkaline! okay fine ill give you that i got a lil overexcited when i saw that 12v pack, but A123 makes me happy. for the first time in 100 years the electric car is viable again! **nerd DOME hugs a tree**

 

[x88x]

NANO-TECHs,Li-TI, and im sure others as well, were all made by reverse engineering a LiFePO4 from A123.

And you're basing that on....what, exactly? I know you're an A123 fanboy, and I don't deny that they make great stuff, but to claim that nobody else is capable of innovation is taking it more than a little too far.