Add a mid-drive motor to a 1000w hub-drive
- Thread starter Lectriceye
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hillslayer@
10 W
I do have a kill switch.Ah, i see you haven't had a fast electric vehicle go WOT on you yet
Lectriceye
1 W
Being the newby, what is WOT? BTW, my BBSHD comes with 46t chainring. Since I ride mainly in the mountains with long steep hills, should I be thinking anout a a 42t chainring or even smaller? I am not so concerned about high end speed.
yantra yatra
100 W
For your riding it sounds like a more powerful controller for your hub drive, or the BBSHD alone, would work. It doesn’t seem like there’s a need to have the hub drive for what you are doing if you have a HD.
I'm running a "32" on my BBS02 and it's fine for off road since I don't ride over 20 mph or so on the rough trails in "the OC". The bonus is a better chainline with the new ring. BTW, to simplify the cassette and have a better chainline, I use 11-17-28 individual cogs spaced 8-speed.
hillslayer@
10 W
If you're running a hub plus the BBSHD the 46 t is fine if you need a little lower gear for some really steep hills I would change to a freewheel with the 34t 1st gear.
Lectriceye
1 W
I think that must mean "Wide Open Throttle" or throttle stuck wide open. Kill switch should do it.
Lectriceye
1 W
The wait is over, I finally finished my upgrade, adding a BBSHD to my Factory made 1000w geared hub. My first impressions are absolutley wonderful. Only 2 rest drives so far going 15 and 22 miles, with nothing steeper than 5-6% over 1/4 mile. On one quarter mile streach of 6%, I had no trouble hitting 25mph, and I look forward to riding some longer and steeper hills this week. I don't have the gear shift sensor yet, and I don't really see much need for it. As a long time vintage bike rider, it is intuituve to just let off the power briefly when changing gears. On steep hills make sure you get into the proper gears earlier than later. So evrything was easy to do, and I thank you for the experience and advice of this group. I am already thinking about my next project, converting my mountain/gravel bike to an eMTB.
hillslayer@
10 W
You can mount one of the brake cut off levers they give you if you didn't use them as a clutch, works as good or better than the shift sensor.
Lectriceye
1 W
The kit that I received didn't have the brake cutoff for Hydraulic brakes, so I ordered them and I plan to mount one on the left brake. I remember that you mentioned that in an earlier post. The hydraulic brakes that I have already have magnetic cutoffs on both brakes internally to the calipers for the hub. I think the one I ordered will mount right on top. I might use the other one to make a kill switch, which I already have next to the throttle for the hub. I have everything for the hub on the right side and everything for the mid on the left (lcd, throttle, and will be brake cutoff).
Lectriceye
1 W
I decided to summarize the completion of my project to add a Bafang BBSHD to my fatory built 1000w bub drive. As NEWBY to ebikes I appreciate all the help I had from many of you. first of all, the mid drive turned out much easier to install that I had anticipated. My bottom bracket is 100mm and I ordered a 120mm on the advice of a local. During installation I had to install 6 spacers on the left sideand didn'y put any on the power side. After spinning it up, I found I could not shift up to the top cog and If I did, my chain wouod be close to rubbing the tire. So I moved 2 of the spacers to the power side and that centered the chain up nicely on the freewheel.
Electrically, I mounted all of the stuff for the Bafang on the left side and everything for the hub on the right. I had a kill switch for the hub on the right side, and I wanted one for the Bafang on the left. After a little investigation I found that I could rewire the left brake cutoff for the hub over to the Bafang, and also splice in an on/off kill switch for same.
As for my riding experience I think I can tackle just about any hill up to the limit of my rear wheel traction, I haven't found that limit yet. I did confirm that I can was able to hit 35 mph, which is faster than I want to ride. Being retired I don't have to be in a hurry to get anywhere, so I ride to optimize my 2 batteries of 21ah and 20ah. Riding conservatively, I am pretty sure I can travel at least 100 miles, longer than my body wants to go in a day. I tend to ride PAS with the mid most of the time and add power from the hub on the hills trying to keep my watts about equal. Always starting from a dead stop with the hub and never over torquing the freewheel.
I hope this information is helpful for anyone else anticipating this upgrade.
Electrically, I mounted all of the stuff for the Bafang on the left side and everything for the hub on the right. I had a kill switch for the hub on the right side, and I wanted one for the Bafang on the left. After a little investigation I found that I could rewire the left brake cutoff for the hub over to the Bafang, and also splice in an on/off kill switch for same.
As for my riding experience I think I can tackle just about any hill up to the limit of my rear wheel traction, I haven't found that limit yet. I did confirm that I can was able to hit 35 mph, which is faster than I want to ride. Being retired I don't have to be in a hurry to get anywhere, so I ride to optimize my 2 batteries of 21ah and 20ah. Riding conservatively, I am pretty sure I can travel at least 100 miles, longer than my body wants to go in a day. I tend to ride PAS with the mid most of the time and add power from the hub on the hills trying to keep my watts about equal. Always starting from a dead stop with the hub and never over torquing the freewheel.
I hope this information is helpful for anyone else anticipating this upgrade.
Lectriceye
1 W
Last weekend I had the opportunity to put my bike to a a test of power. My riding partner and I rode a 30 mile mountain loop called "Rabbit Ears", featured on www.dirtyfreehub.org, located about 50 miles NE of Medford off Crater lake Hwy. My riding partner was Riding a Intense Tazer MX Alloy, with Shimano 801 630w, with 36v 17.5 ah battery. I was riding my bike with Bafang 1000 watt hub and BBSHD mid and (2) 20ah batteries, 52v and 48v. We had about 1200 ft vertical over 17 miles, most of it in the last 10 miles. My partner started running out of battery about 5 miles from the top and I towed him the last 5-6 miles. I was surprised How easy it was to tow him with me and my bike at 325 lbs and he and his bike at 290 lbs (I always carry a tow strap). I was towing in Power level 2 of 5 on both motors (mid on 46t/28t) maintaining about 5-600 watts on both motors at 7-8 mph, on an approximate 7% grade for about 5 miles. At the end of the day, I still had 50% capacity left on both batteries. I did carry and extra 48v 17.5ah battery but never turned it on. Unfortunately my riding partner wasn't configured to use my extra battery. I think the 3 batteries give me range in excess of 150 miles in econ mode, on moderately flat terrain. I might use that some day on a 2-3 day camping trip. I now have my riding partner contemplating adding a 1000w hub to the front with a 48v 20ah battery.
I will say this is a great ride if anyone is in the Medford area, give to go.
I will say this is a great ride if anyone is in the Medford area, give to go.
yantra yatra
100 W
I actually think this is quite a smart setup, a direct drive hub for the flats, and a mid drive for longer hills to use the gearing. I could imagine a factory built bike with this setup, to achieve higher speeds on the flat, without stressing the drivetrain, and efficiency climbing hills. Without bogging down. A smart controller that could run both the motors without needing separate systems would be cool, and shared torque sensing etc. Eg a 120nm torque sensing mid drive paired with a 1500w direct drive. That would be a great bike. Or could be.
Your bike sounds great too. Enjoy
Your bike sounds great too. Enjoy
Sorry for being a party pooper, but to me it seems like completely unnecessary complication. Why add heavy motor to rear hub while mid drive will take you up any hill?
yantra yatra
100 W
So you can go fast on the flats without chewing up your gears, and faster than a mid can take you. But maybe you’re right. I’m talking about for more general applications than just hill climbing
yantra yatra
100 W
Lectriceye
1 W
Yes, and thanks for the thoughts on a smart controller for both motors.
Lectriceye
1 W
When you have a 1000w hub factory bike, going to an alternative on the hub/controller is not an attractive alternative. And BTW, I towed the guy up the hill who had a factory Shimano 630w mid-drive up the long hill. He paid a lot of money for for the mid-drive bike only to find out that my cheaper alternative towed him up the the hill.
hillslayer@
10 W
hillslayer@
10 W
This is exactly how I ride mine, use the direct drive hub to cruise at 25 to 32 mph hit a hill add in the mid drive. Half way through the ride need to switch batteries as the hub is doing most the work.
Lectriceye
1 W
Yes, I use the hub for just about 80% of my riding until I get to a hill where it starts to lug down, then I add the mid drive and cook on up the hill. Since I towed my son-in-law up the hill, we are now planning to add a a 1000w hub drive motor to the front wheel of his Intense Tazer.
You don't like him very much, do you?
It is not safe to put so powerful and heavy motor on front fork. It is also an extremely bad idea to do it on a 6K proper mountain bike. You will totally ruin it.
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Lectriceye
1 W
When it was all said and done, I had my right brake caliper (rear) setup for the power cutoff on the hub motor and the left brake setup for the power cutoff on the front brake. I also have a power on/off switch on the right side for the hub, and on the left side for the mid-drive. All work well. I like to use the on/off on the mid so I can shut it off easily without going to 0 on the power select switch while riding when I don't need the mid-drive boost. It is easy to shut of both when I am stopped for a break and don't want to accidentally hit the throttle.
Giv
Given that lots of scooters have dual motors, it would be nice to have someone with your experience sit with a vesc developer and develop a controller for a set up like yours
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